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[Dr Cowley]

Magic also got rid of another species altogether because the name sounded a bit racist. Naga were the serpent-like creatures that have arms and could wield weapons and such. Now they are just classed as snakes.

I remember the creature type in World of Warcraft, did they purge them there too?

 

[Rush2112]

Ah the cancerous rainbow cult has moved on to D&D now. Goodbye Baldur’s gate.

 

[Hudo]

No wonder Larian didn't want to continue working with WotC/Hasbro.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Magic also got rid of another species altogether because the name sounded a bit racist. Naga were the serpent-like creatures that have arms and could wield weapons and such. Now they are just classed as snakes.

I remember the creature type in World of Warcraft, did they purge them there too?

Nagas have been in DND since the beginning. I remember them in the first monster manual.

Also in heroes of might and magic 3. Snake women with like 6 arms.

 

[kiphalfton]

Aragorn must be the most racist character in history.

In the first Lotr movie he says at the end “let’s go hunt some orcs”. And then he, Orlando bloom and the dwarf dude go run back into the forest to kill as many black people as possible… I mean orcs.

Whomever makes DND are dumb as rocks. Lol

Then there's the Orcs Must Die games, and the Shadow of Mordor/War games... which are essentially orc killing simulators.

 

[Gaiff]

If you removed Drows and Orcs because they reminded you of black people, you might be the racist.

 

[Hookshot]

My understanding of Drows is that they are dark skinned Elves. They don't have African features so I don't understand the issue with them, is it simply "Dark skin can't be bad"?

 

[Dr Cowley]

Nagas have been in DND since the beginning. I remember them in the first monster manual.

Also in heroes of might and magic 3. Snake women with like 6 arms.

Yea I though I'd seen them in other games.

It sucks they are getting rid of the elements that actually make it fantasy and replacing it with generic stuff. Magic just had a set that was basically 'wind in the willows' badgers, squirrels, geese and shit like that. Fuckin ughhh

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Unfortunately I can't recommend the German alternative, The Dark Eye, either, as this one's full of woke shit now, too.

Oh shit they did? What did they do with that one now? Because I always looked at that as an alternative.

 

[KimDongHwan]

I have a hopeful thought that maybe something good will come out of this people destroying legendary media from the old times. Maybe it will give a raise to new IPs that can be a fresh start for many creators out there that didn't have a chance to compete with this big IPs and so now is their chance of creating their new "D&D" or their new "Lord of the Rings" etc. Of course this comes at the cost of they ruining our childhood, but lets be honest, the people that created our childhood probably are already gone from the companies that hold those IPs.

 

[diffusionx]

Nagas have been in DND since the beginning. I remember them in the first monster manual.

Also in heroes of might and magic 3. Snake women with like 6 arms.

What did you call me

 

[Loomy]

Gwen Stacy isn't Spiderman. Silver Surfer is Norrin Radd the first herald of Galactus. Galactus has had subsequent female heralds. Why didn't they use one of them? Because they want Silver Surfer's popularity. A character that likely predates both of us, that built his fanbase over the decades in comics. Feminist gender swap bullshit. Fuck that.

I'd have used Miles, but I know where that would lead.

And there's not a single publication out there where the Silver Surfer is someone other than Norrin Radd? Even for a single issue? One perhaps created by one of the most celebrated writer/artists in the history of the medium?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

What did you call me

Forgive me kind sir. I’ll do some push ups.

 

[Mister Wolf]

And there's not a single publication out there where the Silver Surfer is someone other than Norrin Radd? Even for a single issue? One perhaps created by one of the most celebrated writer/artists in the history of the medium?

Enjoy your time at the theater man. I'm not watching that shit. Life goes on.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Nagas have been in DND since the beginning. I remember them in the first monster manual.

Also in heroes of might and magic 3. Snake women with like 6 arms.

No Naga in the new manual btw. Wouldn't be surprised if they were cut due to their association with hinduism.

 

[Atrus]

It’s an offshoot of the argument against Gender Essentialism. After fighting for the idea that Gender is entirely a social construct, they’re expanding into being against racial essentialism where no ethnic or racial group possesses or even could possess definitive traits that can result in them being stereotyped in a certain way.

When fantasy stories define a particular group as wholly evil, these mental midgets struggle to reject the idea. This is why you get “Family Man Orc” in Rings of Power when these black blooded, evil goblin degenerates are depicted as wholly evil in LotR.

This is part of the reason why I feel like people are running to Warhammer 40K in particular since it dialled everything up to 11 and profits off of that extreme.

 

[Zathalus]

Orcs have not been removed. The generic stat block for “Orc” is gone and you would now use the humanoid Orc stats, as they are now a core species and not a splatbook add on. Just like you would for Human/Elf/Gnome/etc… The same goes for Drow. Goblins are still in the MM, as they are not a core species yet.

 

[Sentenza]

No wonder Larian didn't want to continue working with WotC/Hasbro.

Don't be too confident about this stuff.
Last time I checked Larian was decidedly veering in the same direction.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Orcs have not been removed. The generic stat block for “Orc” is gone and you would now use the humanoid Orc stats, as they are now a core species and not a splatbook add on. Just like you would for Human/Elf/Gnome/etc… The same goes for Drow. Goblins are still in the MM, as they are not a core species yet.

Not correct. There is no humanoid "orc" stat.

 

[Zathalus]

Not correct. There is no humanoid "orc" stat.

A simplification, you would use a Orc like you would use any other core race. Which they now are. So you can still have encounters with Orc hordes.

 

[TheStam]

What the fuck.. Drizzt is now offensive I suppose.

I was never big on pen and paper, but loved the games and books. I still believe that no one is close to DnD when it comes to their spell and skill systems. Maybe it is part nostalgia, but no one really came close for me. What a way to destroy something great.

 

[Hudo]

Don't be too confident about this stuff.
Last time I checked Larian was decidedly veering in the same direction.

what do you mean?

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Oh shit they did? What did they do with that one now? Because I always looked at that as an alternative.

Well it's by no means as bad as D&D rn, but for starters

• Massive influx of "stronk wamen" trope, which mostly shows in the form of gender swapping and hilarious demonstrations of the "women can do this, too" type edits
• Senseless / context-free oversexualization of parts of the lore, resulting in whole source books dedicated to nothing but shagging in the high fantasy world of Dere
• Embarassing focus on making sure all races are free of any strong stereotypes, leading to a weakened contrast between them and making everything feel less meaningful (i.e. in character creation)

It seems they still haven't stopped, either. Since the 5th edition, this type of content has infested all publications. I'd recommend just going with the 4th edition, which doesn't have any obvious woke agenda in it. Beware the pseudo progressive gender-relativization has always been a part of The Dark Eye, as this is a very German element and an expression of our post-war understanding of female empowerment and feminism. It can be easily ignored before the 5th edition, though.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Well it's by no means as bad as D&D rn, but for starters

• Massive influx of "stronk wamen" trope, which mostly shows in the form of gender swapping and hilarious demonstrations of the "women can do this, too" type edits
• Senseless / context-free oversexualization of parts of the lore, resulting in whole source books dedicated to nothing but shagging in the high fantasy world of Dere
• Embarassing focus on making sure all races are free of any strong stereotypes, leading to a weakened contrast between them and making everything feel less meaningful (i.e. in character creation)

It seems they still haven't stopped, either. Since the 5th edition, this type of content has infested all publications. I'd recommend just going with the 4th edition, which doesn't have any obvious woke agenda in it. Beware the pseudo progressive gender-relativization has always been a part of The Dark Eye, as this is a very German element and an expression of our post-war understanding of female empowerment and feminism. It can be easily ignored before the 5th edition, though.

The second one doesn't seem woke and more like they're riding on the Game of Thrones popularity.

The gender swapping is weird. Especially since the game is extremely lore heavy and tries to keep consistent.

 

[StereoVsn]

A good chunk of people were going to give Pathfinder 2 a try. Don’t know if they ever did. But it’s a really fun system!

I really recommend people try Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. It’s an excellent game based on a great tabletop system.

WotC can go and jump off a bridge at this point.

 

[lughnasadh123]

The one with the gender swapped Silver Surfer.

Isn't she the wife of Silver Surfer acting as a second Herald?

 

[Trilobit]

This is what happens when you don't gatekeep. You let in the trolls.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

No wonder Larian didn't want to continue working with WotC/Hasbro.

IMO this is the obvious reason why they aren't working on Baldurs Gate anymore. "Creative differences" they call it.

 

[Vandole]

As someone who the runs the vastly superior Call of Cthulhu, these things have no effect on me. As a matter of fact, most of you should just stop bitching about it and make the switch. Grow up and play a game where your characters are a little more than shells of meat waiting to die or go insane.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Isn't she the wife of Silver Surfer acting as a second Herald?

No.

 

[DKehoe]

IMO this is the obvious reason why they aren't working on Baldurs Gate anymore. "Creative differences" they call it.

What kind of things have suggested that's the case? I thought it was more things like Hasbro laying off a lot of the people at WOTC they worked with and that they paid WOTC $90 million as part of the licensing deal.

For a team who have previously made their own thing it makes sense they might want to return to doing their own thing where they can use their own setting, a system they feel fits best and can keep all the money.

 

[lughnasadh123]

No.

Ah, different reality. *shrugs*

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Gwen Stacy isn't Spiderman. Silver Surfer is Norrin Radd the first herald of Galactus. Galactus has had subsequent female heralds. Why didn't they use one of them? Because they want Silver Surfer's popularity. A character that likely predates both of us, that built his fanbase over the decades in comics. Feminist gender swap bullshit. Fuck that.

Wait. They are gender swapping Silver Surfer?

One of the few movies I was almost... tentatively excited for this year. We really can't have nice things anymore, can we?

 

[Mister Wolf]

Wait. They are gender swapping Silver Surfer?

One of the few movies I was almost... tentatively excited for this year. We really can't have nice things anymore, can we?

Feminism.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

What the DEI is going on!

 

[Wildebeest]

Drow are not censored from "modern" D&D because they are based on a minority, but because their original lore is too fucked up and metal for the naive goth girls who want to role-play an edgy dark bad girl character.

 

[SirTerry-T]

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Has any of the "new lore" from WH:40K flowed down into the Fantasy variant?

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Has any of the "new lore" from WH:40K flowed down into the Fantasy variant?

I'm only familiar with the Old World, but seems pretty much in line with WHFB

 

[ClanOfNone]

I’m never gonna see Dark Sun again am I? One of the coolest settings in tabletop rpg’s, left to rot.
Just as well, they would only ruin it under the current regime.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

I’m never gonna see Dark Sun again am I? One of the coolest settings in tabletop rpg’s, left to rot.
Just as well, they would only ruin it under the current regime.

Probably.

 

[Dithadder]

Magic also got rid of another species altogether because the name sounded a bit racist. Naga were the serpent-like creatures that have arms and could wield weapons and such. Now they are just classed as snakes.

I remember the creature type in World of Warcraft, did they purge them there too?

 

[Blank Space Invader]

 

[Ozzie666]

Still surprised they allow the term Dark Elves in fantasy games.

Are we sure this isn't copyright penny pinching or trademark chasing? similar to Haflings vs Hobits ..

 

[kunonabi]

Only in modern days companies and people can be fully racists while being completelly open about it. I never in my life saw any connection between orcs and black people, and I came from an entire line of black families.

And the funny thing is made them distinctly Mexican now.

Edit: lol, beaten

 

[Hudo]

But aren't Games Workshop going down the same path as WotC?

 

[bad guy]

Pen and Paper? No thanks. Give me Discs and Dexterity!

 

[Cyberpunkd]

My understanding of Drows is that they are dark skinned Elves. They don't have African features so I don't understand the issue with them, is it simply "Dark skin can't be bad"?

Wasn't it linked to the discussion where one race is exclusively evil, and that sat badly with weirdos? That was the whole thing with Orcs in the Rings of Power, they tried that incredibly confusing thing of showing orcs as multi-dimensional - you saw orcs mothers caring for their babies ; other orcs opposing Sauron, etc.

Basically this situation:

 

[Toots]

Magic also got rid of another species altogether because the name sounded a bit racist. Naga were the serpent-like creatures that have arms and could wield weapons and such. Now they are just classed as snakes.

I remember the creature type in World of Warcraft, did they purge them there too?

Naga please...

I guess only in heavy metal can you have the real heroic fantasy experience nowdays

 

[acidagfc]

As usual, the entire outrage is about absolutely nothing, by people who do not know anything about the subject.

Here are the Monster Manual pages about Orc and Drow from previous edition (DND5, but slightly older):

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16972-orc?srsltid=AfmBOootqzkojADHr0nnFUXLvoFpLJHrbTWHFTclTYoB2GAlYDbwhLa5

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/17133-drow?srsltid=AfmBOopy9rbyyACCFum0YklDT0BXbol17Bs_-SDy363qT8qia7HKDf2H

Notice anything? Oh right, these "monsters" have nothing unique from any generic humanoid NPC.

Go ahead, show me a page for Human or Elf or Dwarf monster. There are none, because they are not needed.

There is simply no point in wasting pages of the manual for generic monsters like that when any half-competent GM can conjure whole bunch of them out of thin air without ever opening the book.

Their skin color has fuck all to do with them being removed.
Plus, no one is fucking stopping you from creating these monsters for your games. It's a guide, not a lawbook.

Sheesh.