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[Wildebeest]

There is simply no point in wasting pages of the manual for generic monsters like that when any half-competent GM can conjure whole bunch of them out of thin air without ever opening the book.

They were not generic in earlier editions like 2e before things like World of Warcraft came out and made millennials think that all fantasy races should be generic and interchangeable and all bestest fwends with each other who just want to pet the doggo and so on.

 

[acidagfc]

They were not generic in earlier editions like 2e before things like World of Warcraft came out and made millennials think that all fantasy races should be generic and interchangeable and all bestest fwends with each other who just want to pet the doggo and so on.

There you go, DND2 MM:

Orc (Creature)

For other Orcs, see Orc (disambiguation). Orcs are a species of aggressive mammalian carnivores that band together in tribes and survive by hunting and raiding. Orcs believe that in order to survive they must expand their territory, and so they are constantly involved in wars against many...

adnd2e.fandom.com

Tell me please what in the stat block makes it unique from a human?

There is a nice bit of the written lore here, but I'd argue this makes more sense in either DMG or PHB, not in MM.

 

[JohnnyTropics]

DND is a rule set.
Faerun is a skin that you can put on top of that rule set.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is another skin you could put on top of that rule set;
or the Super Mario Brothers universe;
or the Lord of the Rings universe;
or the Harry Potter universe;
or the Disney Universe;
or the Warcraft universe;
or the Final Fantasy universe;
or the Llama Llama Red Pajama universe;
or literally any other pre-made fictional universe;
or you can create your own universe with your friends;
or you can use Faerun and have it be all Drow.

Stop saying DND is woke.
DND is a compilation of stat blocks and if/then statements.
Faerun is an imaginary world that gives life to those stat blocks.

There's no such thing as "woke" DND.
The only people playing "woke" DND are people that don't understand how or why the game works the way it does.

I am the least woke person on this board, more than likely. I'm surprised I haven't been banned. But I will never tolerate discussion about DND being "woke."

That's like saying the letters H, O, M, S, E, X, U, A, and L are woke because they spell homosexual.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Yeah, not sure I see how any of this is woke. Tbh, having tough creature over Orc Boss makes my life a bit easier as a DM since I can just use that stat block to replace a bunch of different types of enemies. As long as the art work is good, it's all I really give a fuck about.

Is this what Gaf is now? Just a place to get pissed off about stuff being or not being woke?

 

[Wildebeest]

There you go, DND2 MM:

Orc (Creature)

For other Orcs, see Orc (disambiguation). Orcs are a species of aggressive mammalian carnivores that band together in tribes and survive by hunting and raiding. Orcs believe that in order to survive they must expand their territory, and so they are constantly involved in wars against many...

adnd2e.fandom.com

Tell me please what in the stat block makes it unique from a human?

There is a nice bit of the written lore here, but I'd argue this makes more sense in either DMG or PHB, not in MM.

1. Looks nothing like a human. Has a long snout like a pig.
2. Is an obligate carnivore, humans are omnivores. It is normal for them to eat humans.
3. The guidance says for them to be vicious and cruel but also good tacticians, whose religion strictly demands hatred and violence towards non Orcs.
4. Half-Orc was a playable race, but Orc was not.

 

[tvdaXD]

Stop saying DND is woke.

Is this what Gaf is now? Just a place to get pissed off about stuff being or not being woke?

I can only see two people calling this woke (besides these comments), and two others discussing some German alternative. Whatever it may be called, this just feels like change hoping to please to some DEI agenda. Which usually fails to understand true diversity, equity, and inclusion. Instead, it tries to please sensitive social justice warriors who probably aren't/don't even interact with the minority groups they claim to defend.

 

[acidagfc]

1. Looks nothing like a human. Has a long snout like a pig.
2. Is an obligate carnivore, humans are omnivores. It is normal for them to eat humans.
3. The guidance says for them to be vicious and cruel but also good tacticians, whose religion strictly demands hatred and violence towards non Orcs.
4. Half-Orc was a playable race, but Orc was not.

Sigh.
What out of those make it worth a page or two in MM?
Do you as a DM need a full stat block for a monster like this?
Do you as a player need a picture to help you imagine such an otherworldly looking creature?
How does removing it from the book becomes woke or pandering to DEI crowd?

 

[existensmaximum]

If you removed Drows and Orcs because they reminded you of black people, you might be the racist.

Exactly, who the fuck in their right mind would even make that association?

Nobody.

 

[Wildebeest]

Sigh.
What out of those make it worth a page or two in MM?
Do you as a DM need a full stat block for a monster like this?
Do you as a player need a picture to help you imagine such an otherworldly looking creature?
How does removing it from the book becomes woke or pandering to DEI crowd?

It is true that the usefulness of "stat blocks" is questionable. You could just give an experienced game master that bullet list, and they could make a much more flavourful encounter than if you gave them a block of numbers because in the end who cares if a monster has a 0 or +1 to charisma, or +1 to perception. But instead of useless "orc enemy has +1 to haberdashery and always wields a great ax" you have nothing that makes an Orc a unique or scary enemy, so they are just humans in cosplay.

 

[JohnnyTropics]

While I have the attention of the orc afficianados, would some kind sir care to educate me on something that has gnawed at my mind since early childhood:
what is the difference or distinction between orcs and goblins?
In middle earth, goblins lived in the Misty Mountains and gave Bilbo trouble when he passed through them with the party, but then in LOTR, goblins are scarcely mentioned and orcs take center stage as the foot soldiers for Isengard and Mordor.
In Faerun, orcs are a playable race, while goblins (until one of the addendum books) were not.
In Warcraft, you have literally Orcs v Humans as the subtitle to the first game, then in WC2, goblins become gnome equivalents for the Horde and are tinkerers and flyers with high INT.
In Hyrule, there are no orcs, unless we consider Ganon to be one? Goblins, and goblin adjacents, seem to be the classification for most enemies.
In Harry Potter, there are no orcs, while gobilns reprise their Warcraft role and become gnome-equivalents.

Add any other universes you can think of where orcs and/or goblins feature prominently.

My point being: what is the Platonic ideal for both an orc and a goblin?

Because when I say "dragon" you can roughly imagine what one is; same with troll; hag; ghost; zombie; vampire; skeleton; werewolf; etc.

 

[Dithadder]

While I have the attention of the orc afficianados, would some kind sir care to educate me on something that has gnawed at my mind since early childhood:
what is the difference or distinction between orcs and goblins?
In middle earth, goblins lived in the Misty Mountains and gave Bilbo trouble when he passed through them with the party, but then in LOTR, goblins are scarcely mentioned and orcs take center stage as the foot soldiers for Isengard and Mordor.
In Faerun, orcs are a playable race, while goblins (until one of the addendum books) were not.
In Warcraft, you have literally Orcs v Humans as the subtitle to the first game, then in WC2, goblins become gnome equivalents for the Horde and are tinkerers and flyers with high INT.
In Hyrule, there are no orcs, unless we consider Ganon to be one? Goblins, and goblin adjacents, seem to be the classification for most enemies.
In Harry Potter, there are no orcs, while gobilns reprise their Warcraft role and become gnome-equivalents.

Add any other universes you can think of where orcs and/or goblins feature prominently.

My point being: what is the Platonic ideal for both an orc and a goblin?

Because when I say "dragon" you can roughly imagine what one is; same with troll; hag; ghost; zombie; vampire; skeleton; werewolf; etc.

Goblins are to orcs as grasshoppers are to locusts.

 

[GymWolf]

Magic also got rid of another species altogether because the name sounded a bit racist. Naga were the serpent-like creatures that have arms and could wield weapons and such. Now they are just classed as snakes.

I remember the creature type in World of Warcraft, did they purge them there too?

They erased naga because it remotely sound like the n-word?

The asteroid in the offtopic section topic can't come soon enough.

I swear this n-word stuff being a taboo word is beyond retarded.

 

[bitbydeath]

Is it cause this girl wore green face?

Is the Hulk in trouble next?

 

[PeteBull]

If that's true then that's actually racist.

Leftists are often racists af, man, and they dont even hide it, they treat ppl differently based on what skin colour person has and whats between their legs, so racists and sexists even, rightwingers or moderates at least do it on the base of merit/behaviour instead, which is all what we can ask for, actually

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

But Goblins and Hags were allowed to remain? I didn't realize WotC was run by anti-Semitic misogynists.

 

[Josemayuste]

 

[ReyBrujo]

As an old AD&D fan with over 150 or 200 Dragonlance books I'm kind of sad. It doesn't affect me personally because orcs and drows didn't exist in Dragonlance lore, and could never really get into Forgotten Land and the Drizzt madness (I'm not Raistlin fan either, I'm more of a Neidar dwarf myself), but I wonder what would have Tolkien done if someone had said an orc was racist. Actually, I wonder what Salvatore thinks about drows being a racist term. Not even sure if Drizzt already died or if he's still "alive" to be canceled.

 

[SpokkX]

Glad Larian got Baldurs gate 3 out before this happened.

Also glad they are not making Baldurs Gate 4 now