64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
You could consider that a hobby too...
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The gaming industry is overdue for a crash to reset the market
- Thread starter Orutisu Furio
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Angry_Megalodon
Banned
They do since they all share the same NDA. Take-Two still has GTA, but higher towers have fallen.
Gaming Western corporations urgently need to come back to their roots or else they will go under, one after another.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
It just sounds like you've never been exposed to the game industry before. This volatility is nothing new.
A lot of this seems to be a result of gamers not being willing to pay more up front for their games.
You don't think this has something to do with the fact that the industry is mature now and there's only so many ways to design a game?
mayham2199
Member
I played through BG3 from Act 1-2 on PC and Act 3 on PS5. I never had any issue that I would call the game in a shitty state. This was from day 1. It always ran properly. The worst issue I experienced was my team not jumping with me which I admit was pretty annoying.
People wanting a crash is just the most bizarre thing I've seen. All it will do is make a lot of people unemployed and struggle in life. Why would anybody want this? Why do people think it will give rise to the good old days? If anything the ones that will survive are the big players who do the questionable things like microtransactions, mobile, big IPs like COD. Big companies like EA or MS would survive any crash like a roach because it has so much money. They would just gobble up everything for cheap to give you the same things that monetise the same. It's the little guys that would struggle.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
No? It's up to them what they make and up to the public if they want to spend money on it.
How will a complete crash of the industry help?
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
It's not our fault publishers keep making overbudgeted projects. Just make smaller games. They come out faster, they're just as good most of the time and they are cheap.
Gamers would not pay more up front for their games because even if game prices rised to 120 dollars that would inherently limit the audience of a game. And that's not even taking to account frequent sales, used games, piracy, and digital game keys. Rising game prices wouldn't solve the problem it would just make them less accessible and incite more outrage.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
The suits realize there's less money in the gaming industry and bow out- corporations collapse. Then indie studios rise from the corpses to form a better industry
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Jesus, MS and idiotic companies that act like them (looking at you embracer); is NOT THE GAMING INDUSTRY.
The gaming industry is fine, and making way more money than was mode in what most consider the golden era of gaming (PS2 gen), so the mere idea that the industry is somehow in trouble is ridiculous at best and stupid at worst.
What we have is an industry with excessively bloated ideas of profits and sustainability. And industry where if your game doesn't rake in a billion dollars its hardly considered as a success. And even the media feeds into this nonsense. Once upon a time if you made a game that sold 5M copies, it would be called a commercial success a best seller even. Now, even if a 5M selling game makes three times what it was used to make the game, it would still be considered like it has underperformed.
Nonsense. And threads like these are part of the problem. The same way the suits running gaming for us are there constantly chasing the next biggest trend as opposed to just making good innovative and fun games, its the same way gamers have the brain of a goldfish and are constantly looking for the next record-breaking thing/trend/IP to jump onto and ignoring all the other great games there are to play.
The gaming industry is fine, and making way more money than was mode in what most consider the golden era of gaming (PS2 gen), so the mere idea that the industry is somehow in trouble is ridiculous at best and stupid at worst.
What we have is an industry with excessively bloated ideas of profits and sustainability. And industry where if your game doesn't rake in a billion dollars its hardly considered as a success. And even the media feeds into this nonsense. Once upon a time if you made a game that sold 5M copies, it would be called a commercial success a best seller even. Now, even if a 5M selling game makes three times what it was used to make the game, it would still be considered like it has underperformed.
Nonsense. And threads like these are part of the problem. The same way the suits running gaming for us are there constantly chasing the next biggest trend as opposed to just making good innovative and fun games, its the same way gamers have the brain of a goldfish and are constantly looking for the next record-breaking thing/trend/IP to jump onto and ignoring all the other great games there are to play.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
And what exactly do you think will happen in a crash? Do you think all of a sudden games you deem worthy of existence, or "good games" will emerge and the crap will disappear?
Industry crashes, vultures swoop in and buys all the IPs. I'm talking people like Embracer, but worse, because they don't give a shit about games. They only want the IP. A fraction of those get turned into movies/TV shows. Most end up worse than the 'bad' games you're complaining about
Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who would be without a job, entering a job market that is already precarious and uncertain at best for tech workers.
No good will come from a crash.
Industry crashes, vultures swoop in and buys all the IPs. I'm talking people like Embracer, but worse, because they don't give a shit about games. They only want the IP. A fraction of those get turned into movies/TV shows. Most end up worse than the 'bad' games you're complaining about
Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who would be without a job, entering a job market that is already precarious and uncertain at best for tech workers.
No good will come from a crash.
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feynoob
Banned
The industry is not fine.
Great games doesn't dictate healthy industry.
It's a result based now these days. Good/bad game doesn't matter anymore.
If your game doesn't sell certain threshold, your company is at risk of closing down. That is the level we are in right now.
Last Hearth
Member
The crash is already happening, I mean if the massive layoffs and project cancellations isn’t an indication of a crash, then I don’t know what it is. But a lot of games take so long to develop now, the impact of this will not be felt until a couple years from now. The games being released now were all funded and developed prior to the crash.
Also, this is a AAA crash, not an industry wide crash, the indies and the smaller studios are still out there and their products offerings will increase and will offset some of the decline in revenue from the major publishers.
Also, this is a AAA crash, not an industry wide crash, the indies and the smaller studios are still out there and their products offerings will increase and will offset some of the decline in revenue from the major publishers.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
And who is funding and publishing all these indie studios? I admit that some get by without publishers, but a hell of a lot rely on big publishers to produce physical editions marketing, fund development etc.
You want corporations to collapse? So that would include Sony and Nintendo?
lughnasadh123
Member
And it's still insane to wish for a crash to happen rather than course correct as needed not to mention the uncertainty of the landscape after. Fuck all those jobs now because maybe it'll be better after for the players?
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
They would survive a crash. Well, Nintendo anyways. Sony is uncertain.
This is a bit of a tough question to answer, but also we did manage to get by on below 1 million budgets before FF7, with less advanced and efficient dev tools. Less money wouldn't be that much of an issue.
mystech
Member
The main issues with modern gaming IMO seem to be:
1. AAA companies that are publicly owned (either directly or under the umbrella of a larger company). Many of those companies create games that appeal to their shareholders rather than what people actually want in terms of quality and gameplay innovation. Release timelines are also set to appeal to shareholders rather than what developers need to ship a finished product.
2. Crazy long development cycles making games more expensive to make and harder to break even.
3. Trend following. When one live service does well, all the developers try to create their own. We get flooded with open world games that are empty just to follow the “sandbox” trend. We get flooded with FPS games because someone decided the best way to explore game worlds was as a floating camera with a gun. Every game has to have RPG elements, in app purchases, “woke” characters, the list goes on.
With that in mind, I don’t think a crash is what we need. Who know we not fully recover from a big crash in todays world. Especially with younger generations showing slightly less interest in console gaming. I think what we really need is:
1. More AAA companies that are privately owned and unwilling to be acquired by any of the big 3 (especially Microsoft). Larger projects by smaller companies may go the crowdfunding route or create exclusive partnerships to support development.
2. Ethical use of generative Ai. I know a lot of people think Ai use will lead to even more soulless games but it really depends on the developers. As someone who uses Ai for development, I can 100% say Ai has actually freed me to be more creative as I can have Ai do the repetitive and mundane task while I focus on creativity. In game development, Ai could definitely lead to lower budgets and faster development cycles while also allowing developers to be more creative.
3. More innovation and experimentation. We need more games that are truly something different rather than half the games feeling like the same thing with a new skin and story.
1. AAA companies that are publicly owned (either directly or under the umbrella of a larger company). Many of those companies create games that appeal to their shareholders rather than what people actually want in terms of quality and gameplay innovation. Release timelines are also set to appeal to shareholders rather than what developers need to ship a finished product.
2. Crazy long development cycles making games more expensive to make and harder to break even.
3. Trend following. When one live service does well, all the developers try to create their own. We get flooded with open world games that are empty just to follow the “sandbox” trend. We get flooded with FPS games because someone decided the best way to explore game worlds was as a floating camera with a gun. Every game has to have RPG elements, in app purchases, “woke” characters, the list goes on.
With that in mind, I don’t think a crash is what we need. Who know we not fully recover from a big crash in todays world. Especially with younger generations showing slightly less interest in console gaming. I think what we really need is:
1. More AAA companies that are privately owned and unwilling to be acquired by any of the big 3 (especially Microsoft). Larger projects by smaller companies may go the crowdfunding route or create exclusive partnerships to support development.
2. Ethical use of generative Ai. I know a lot of people think Ai use will lead to even more soulless games but it really depends on the developers. As someone who uses Ai for development, I can 100% say Ai has actually freed me to be more creative as I can have Ai do the repetitive and mundane task while I focus on creativity. In game development, Ai could definitely lead to lower budgets and faster development cycles while also allowing developers to be more creative.
3. More innovation and experimentation. We need more games that are truly something different rather than half the games feeling like the same thing with a new skin and story.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Even if they survived, we're still talking tens of thousands of people losing their jobs. Is that a price worth paying for your gaming utopia?
That was 30 years ago
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
The videogame industry is a lot bigger than consoles. In fact it's A LOT bigger than MS itself, which is a drop in the ocean.
The industry has its issues but it's not crashing in any way. The things MS was pursuing the most ARE stagnating (subscriptions) but the industry is doing great. Sony keeps breaking revenue records, Nintendo was never this healthy, etc...
Development costs are increasing a lot, development time is as well...but we're a long way from a crash.
The industry has its issues but it's not crashing in any way. The things MS was pursuing the most ARE stagnating (subscriptions) but the industry is doing great. Sony keeps breaking revenue records, Nintendo was never this healthy, etc...
Development costs are increasing a lot, development time is as well...but we're a long way from a crash.
MadchesterManc
Member
It tickles me that folk here hark back to the previous crash as needed now to get rid of the suits when the original crash was at a time the pioneers of home videogames, the original creators, were in control of the market 
JimmyRustler
Member
Not gonna happen. Most of the big pubs have their MTX cash cow that is making them mad $$$ - and the peasants seem to loooovvvveeee it.
The only thing that is going to happen is that we'll see less and less classic AAA games because usually they do not generate nearly as much income. Best we can hope for is that every now and then a game or two will slip through the cracks.
Meanwhile, enjoy the classics.
God dammit, when I was young there were all the games but I didn't have any money. Now I have no money and there are no games.
PS: I know there are plenty of games but I mostly gave up on indie games. They tend to just not vibe with me and they'll never even reach the quality of even the PS2 AAA games.
The only thing that is going to happen is that we'll see less and less classic AAA games because usually they do not generate nearly as much income. Best we can hope for is that every now and then a game or two will slip through the cracks.
Meanwhile, enjoy the classics.
God dammit, when I was young there were all the games but I didn't have any money. Now I have no money and there are no games.
PS: I know there are plenty of games but I mostly gave up on indie games. They tend to just not vibe with me and they'll never even reach the quality of even the PS2 AAA games.
Dr.Morris79
Member
Weirdly enough, I was watching this video earlier and thought the exact same thing
Topher
Identifies as young
It's a nice fantasy. One I've had a time or two when big corps piss me off. But no, the crash ain't going to happen and even if it did, you are right, it wouldn't change a thing.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Yeah and game dev was a lot harder and less accessible then than it is nowThat was 30 years ago
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Not gonna happen, but I wish it did.
PatientGamer
Member
There's no doubt, this generation is easily the worst in terms of consumer choice, competition, sustainability, all of it.
Chaos everywhere, nobody seems to have their head screwed on.
Chaos everywhere, nobody seems to have their head screwed on.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Talking about an industry-wide crash is nonsensical. There are segments of the business that will change - you're seeing that happen right now. Massively budgeted AAA games? Over-optimistic attempts at GaaS? Those are starting to get culled, and that's going to continue. I think we'll see a shift to more modestly budgeted games that take fewer financial risks but are allowed somewhat more creative latitude. Not to the point of what we saw during the PS2 era, but better than what we have now. I think indie games - especially the more polished ones, are going to start taking a much more prominent space in the business. Once more of these sorts of games become more of a focal point of 1P marketing, I think that segment will start to take off. However stupid the people running a lot of the big studios are, there's no way they aren't looking at this year's success of stuff like Palworld, Helldivers 2, and Manor Lords and taking some serious notes on how to direct their development efforts.
midnightAI
Member
It's always been results based
Speaking of which, and looping back around again, Gamepass.... Yeh, about those sales...
Last Hearth
Member
It doesn’t matter how hard they look at Manor Lords, they will never be able to duplicate it.
The same way no publisher can hope to have another Harry Potter series or A Song of Ice and Fire by hiring a thousand writers.
The Manor Lords guy didn’t start with the idea that he’s going to make money from gaming, and then came up with the game to do it. He started with a game he wanted to make, and it was so good he was able to make money from it.
Don't forget COVID, when these companies all over hired and then went all PikachuSurpriseFace when they realised they weren't making the same money as they were during COVID.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Because people have demonstrated so much care and willingness to pay for those.
They are not cheap. This is what some of you guys miss; everything is more expensive these days. The "AA" game of today (which was the AAA of yesterday), costs more time and money than ever.
I can think of solutions to all of those.
-Holding at full price for years on end Ala Nintendo - who has convinced tens of millions to pay premium prices for sub PS3 fidelity games.
-Digital prioritization
-DRM
Lmao
Whose fault is that?
Something has to give. You guys (and you know what I mean when I say this) ant better games with better graphics and more interactivity/freedom at the same price, while developers never get fired, their pay and benefits increase, and they never have to crunch. It doesn't fit together.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Xbox guy?
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
They literally have- Nintendo is the biggest example of this. Not to mention indies like Hades and minecraft experiencing tremendous success.
Significantly cheaper then at least. A 10-20 million budget game with a team of 50-100 devs goes a long way and it's certainly more cost effective than 300 million budget Spiderman 2 and 9000 dev count Diablo 4. They keep spending all this manpower and time on games when in reality it's all just useless diminishing returns- too many cooks spoil the broth
Except that even Nintendo fans buy physical and look for sales and deals often. plus 60-70 dollars for a full video game is still far less expensive than the ludicrous prices youll suggest
If games actually get that expensive even then... people will stop buying. Simple as. even the fifa and cod fans will eventually stop purchasing when the prices get too high- it's hard to convince your average human being to spend 150 dollars on 1 video game. If you can't get sales and you can't get used, you just don't buy it. People already are playing older games just as much if not more whether it be GAAS games that came out half a decade ago or classics from the older gens. Congratulations you've made another crash which is what we've wanted.
Alan wake 2 launched digital only and paid for it dearly so clearly we're not ready yet for the all digital future. Steam gets away with it Sure, on PC. But if you tried that shit on a PS Gamer you'd have to pry the disk from their cold dead hands
If a sudden rise in DRM occurred there would also be a sudden rise in Crack groups trying to break the encryption.
simpatico
Member
The free money era of 0% interest rates fried the brains of a lot of western companies. Covid was just the coup de grace because it combined that free money era with customers have waaaaay more disposable income then they realistically create.
Team Andromeda
Member
And lets remember the Game industry never crashed outside the USA
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
This is the paragraph that pisses me off the most.
You keep seeing these corporations and their disregard for video gsmes as a medium.
You see the CEOs exposing their strategies to make players addicted to their games and pay tons of money like whales.
You see the layoffs, studio closures and crunch despite the companies making record profits
You see all that shit but somehow think that if we just give them just a couple dozen more dollars, just a tiny bit more money, they will finally go back to making the groundbreaking genre defining masterpieces that they were consistently creating from 1980 to 2014. With great pay for the employees too.
And somehow I'm the naive one here who doesn't understand how anything works.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Some of you folks are patently absurd!!!
"Everything must burn because MS/Xbox has shat the bed!".... WTF?!?
If you weren't so blinded by your platform loyalty you would see that the industry, eastern and western alike, has been pumping out stellar games despite Spencer driving his platform into irrelevance in his grotty corner of the industry.
"Everything must burn because MS/Xbox has shat the bed!".... WTF?!?
If you weren't so blinded by your platform loyalty you would see that the industry, eastern and western alike, has been pumping out stellar games despite Spencer driving his platform into irrelevance in his grotty corner of the industry.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
There's no point in discussing this further if you genuinely think that Nitendo's unique situation proves anything.
The exceptions only prove the rule.
You're being universally optimistic with that 10-20 million dollar budget estimate. 2D platformer kickstarter games still need publishers after raising 7 figures.
I don't think 70 dollars this gen or 80 dollars starting next gen is ludicrous. Actually, it'll still be way behind inflation from 2005/06.
For whatever reason, I doubt that. Weren't we 100% sure that would be the case with price increases this gen? Lol
Higher prices will mean fewer games make the cut... but that's not a crash. Or a bad thing, tbh.
This is not a market of the average human being in the first place.
Sure, but they did it anyway. And as much as this is all correct for single player games, it isn't true for MP shit.
You'll have noticed that everything I listed is stuff already in motion to some degree. DRM on digital isn't going to get less powerful. In fact with AI coding, you can expect it to get ever harder to crack.
fart town usa
Member
AAA is due for a reset, and it's a few years into the process. It's been happening.
Just explore AA and Indies. There is no shortage of good games to play, many gamers are just shallow and turn their nose up at quality games because some douche on YT dog piled on a bit of jank or a "lack" of visual fidelity. "looks dated" no shit! It was developed by 30 people with a shoe string budget.
There's not going to be a crash, it's just pearl clutching from neck beards who cry over a lack of AAA games because these neck beards are too shallow to take a chance on a game that didn't score 9s & 10s.
Just explore AA and Indies. There is no shortage of good games to play, many gamers are just shallow and turn their nose up at quality games because some douche on YT dog piled on a bit of jank or a "lack" of visual fidelity. "looks dated" no shit! It was developed by 30 people with a shoe string budget.
There's not going to be a crash, it's just pearl clutching from neck beards who cry over a lack of AAA games because these neck beards are too shallow to take a chance on a game that didn't score 9s & 10s.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
And yet, the only company ACTUALLY in chaos is Microsoft with Xbox, while Nintendo and Sony continue to break records and sell well.
That doesn’t even cover the 3rd party companies who are also posting solid quarters of late.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Note to OP:
www.neogaf.com
www.neogaf.com
The industry will be fine. MS will die and won't be missed by anyone sensible.
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The industry will be fine. MS will die and won't be missed by anyone sensible.
They ones making record profits are the ones doing this. The ones who don't are the ones going under. That's what you fail to see. You want your cake and to eat it too. You buy a game that covers cost and avoid the mtx addiction games or you get the free stuff and rely on the whales. You can't say I want games that are cheap, that are well polished, and have great graphics, that have no monetisation. Something has to give. The industry has the data on what is selling and how they're covering cost. Unfortunately it's the whales buying mtx on mobile and f2p games.
Inuteu
Member
thats the real root of the problem
games used to be made by passionate geeks programing endless nights
now is just another day in corporate hell. wiht the pressure for release dates and the constant threat of being fired overnight
corporate bullshit is destroying the industry
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