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Turns out there are IP fans, not genre fans ...

Nickolaidas

Member
I mean ... that's the realization I get. The low sales of the Alone in the Dark reboot made me think about making this thread. The Alone in the Dark reboot was a good Survival Horror game. It should be have sold millions of copies. But it didn't. It flopped. What was the reason? Was it lack of marketing? Was it the fact that it was made by Western developers? Was it something else?

Or was it that there are simply not many SH fans out there?

Dead Space remake also sold a lot less than say, Resident Evil 8 or Re4make. And it's an amazing SH game. And I just don't get it. I mean, if you like SH games, it makes sense that you will be buying the 4-5 top names in Survival Horror, right? Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Dead Space, Alone in the Dark - those are the top names associated with AAA Survival Horror (add Dying Light and Dead Island if you feel really generous). Every Survival Horror fan wants to have games of those names in their collection, right? So why does Resident Evil games sell like 10 million copies each time in a span of a couple of years, but Dead Space and Alone in the Dark can't sell for shit? And yeah, I know that Dead Space Remake sold a couple of million, but it's still grossly less than RE4 or RE7.

Same with fighting games. If you like fighting games, what are the names you won't be missing a game when it releases? Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, King of Fighters ... every fighting game fan wants to buy games from those IPs, right? So why does Mortal Kombat sells like, 8 million units while Street Fighter sells a couple of million? Are there fighting game fans who absolutely detest playing Street Fighter but have an orgasm the second they play Scorpion vs Sub-Zero? Or is it that there are far more people who ONLY play MK, NOT because it is a fighting game, but BECAUSE it is MK? They are fans of the IP, and not the genre ITSELF.

And this is what boggles my mind. If you are a Resident Evil fan ONLY and not a Survival Horror fan - because if you were, you would have bought Dead Space, Silent Hill 2 and Alone in the Dark as well, and not just RE games - why ARE you a Resident Evil and not a Dead Space fan? Why did you become an RE fan? It mustn't have been the survival horror aspect, since that would've made you to buy other SH games as well. Was it the zombies? The local setting? Leon's haircut? Jill's boobs? Whatever it is, it must be something a lot more superficial than gameplay and game design, otherwise you'd have bought those other games as well.

Same with MK. If you only play MK and not SF, Tekken or Guilty Gear, there must be some other reason other than combos or gameplay that makes you play MK only - perhaps it is the excessive gore? The game's setting? Do you like the game's setting and the fatalities so much to the point of investing your time on a game that doesn't have gameplay that you like - because if you liked the fighting gameplay, you'd play other fighting games as well?

Am I seeing it the wrong way? Is it some kind of mentality like - "Yeah, I only watch the Boston Celtics when they play, but I don't really care about NBA or basketball otherwise."

Or maybe "I only like the basketball the Boston Celtics play".

But how can you like the way a team plays basketball while not actually caring about basketball altogether? It just seems weird to me.


Thoughts?
 
This well known. Hence why gaming co want acquisitions.

Companies without a strong ip need to communicate what they are bringing not trying mass market communication.

A company can make a cod clone and simply say we wanted to make an fps like cod but balanced. It would lead to shots fired in the industry.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Alone in the Dark has low replayability and content for the price it asks for and I get much more mileage out of Crow Country, Signalis, Hollowbody, Fear the Spotlight, Dreadout Series, RE 1 HD, Luigi's Mansion 1. And it all has to do with great art direction, and a surreal spooky atmosphere.

Top 5-10 JRPGs is subjective. Golden Sun is the best JRPG ever but not everyone agrees.

Sesame Street Idk GIF
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I am not saying that a JRPG fan should go and buy every JRPG under the sun. But shouldn't they at least buy the top 5-10 JRPGs?
Too much money, too much time to play all of them (they're JRPGs for crying out loud. You'd be lucky to finish one in 40 hours) and people in general just don't like leaving their comfort zone.
it is what it is
 
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Not so sure. I love Metroidvanias, but due to personal preference I gravitate towards a new Metroid release over your average take on the genre. This goes for horror too. I don't have an unlimited amount of money so I will play a new Resident Evil over others as I know I will enjoy it. I just recently brought Alan Wake 2 as it was on sale as I do like this type of game. However by the time I have bought the latestAlan Wake 2, Silent Hill 2, I will probably not end up buying Alone in the dark.
 

Zacfoldor

Member
Baldur’s Gate 3 made me buy Pathfinder WotR.

I think the issue is that gamers don’t want to limit themselves by genre, we just want to play the best games from most genres.

AA or lower games sometimes don’t make the cut.
 
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Yeah that definitely effects it since I love horror games and have heard of Alone in the Dark a long time but but barely knew anything about this new one or really have a interest in it. But I did find out about Clock Tower which is even more less know than Alone in the Dark I think.
 
I mean ... that's the realization I get. The low sales of the Alone in the Dark reboot made me think about making this thread. The Alone in the Dark reboot was a good Survival Horror game. It should be have sold millions of copies. But it didn't. It flopped. What was the reason? Was it lack of marketing? Was it the fact that it was made by Western developers? Was it something else?

Or was it that there are simply not many SH fans out there?

Dead Space remake also sold a lot less than say, Resident Evil 8 or Re4make. And it's an amazing SH game. And I just don't get it. I mean, if you like SH games, it makes sense that you will be buying the 4-5 top names in Survival Horror, right? Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Dead Space, Alone in the Dark - those are the top names associated with AAA Survival Horror (add Dying Light and Dead Island if you feel really generous). Every Survival Horror fan wants to have games of those names in their collection, right? So why does Resident Evil games sell like 10 million copies each time in a span of a couple of years, but Dead Space and Alone in the Dark can't sell for shit? And yeah, I know that Dead Space Remake sold a couple of million, but it's still grossly less than RE4 or RE7.

Same with fighting games. If you like fighting games, what are the names you won't be missing a game when it releases? Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, King of Fighters ... every fighting game fan wants to buy games from those IPs, right? So why does Mortal Kombat sells like, 8 million units while Street Fighter sells a couple of million? Are there fighting game fans who absolutely detest playing Street Fighter but have an orgasm the second they play Scorpion vs Sub-Zero? Or is it that there are far more people who ONLY play MK, NOT because it is a fighting game, but BECAUSE it is MK? They are fans of the IP, and not the genre ITSELF.

And this is what boggles my mind. If you are a Resident Evil fan ONLY and not a Survival Horror fan - because if you were, you would have bought Dead Space, Silent Hill 2 and Alone in the Dark as well, and not just RE games - why ARE you a Resident Evil and not a Dead Space fan? Why did you become an RE fan? It mustn't have been the survival horror aspect, since that would've made you to buy other SH games as well. Was it the zombies? The local setting? Leon's haircut? Jill's boobs? Whatever it is, it must be something a lot more superficial than gameplay and game design, otherwise you'd have bought those other games as well.

Same with MK. If you only play MK and not SF, Tekken or Guilty Gear, there must be some other reason other than combos or gameplay that makes you play MK only - perhaps it is the excessive gore? The game's setting? Do you like the game's setting and the fatalities so much to the point of investing your time on a game that doesn't have gameplay that you like - because if you liked the fighting gameplay, you'd play other fighting games as well?

Am I seeing it the wrong way? Is it some kind of mentality like - "Yeah, I only watch the Boston Celtics when they play, but I don't really care about NBA or basketball otherwise."

Or maybe "I only like the basketball the Boston Celtics play".

But how can you like the way a team plays basketball while not actually caring about basketball altogether? It just seems weird to me.


Thoughts?
I don't think the majority of people even know what Alone in the Dark even is. It was a niche game throughout its entire existence and I wouldn't blame anybody not actively into the history of games to know what it is. It's nowhere in the same league as stuff like Resident Evil, and Silent Hill even if it's important to the genre.

Also most of the games are old as hell, the 2008 reboot was horrendous IMO, and the new game always had a janky AA quality to it before release.

No offense to Alone in the Dark fans, but the games have never been as good as stuff like RE, and SH. Alone in the Dark is not in the same league as the aforementioned series.
 

bender

What time is it?
Maybe it's a bad example, but I fit this bill for fighting games. I grew up with Street Fighter so the core fundamentals help me enjoy later entries even if the mechanics have become so complicated that I'm mostly bad them. And that's probably why I don't enjoy the genre more as a whole, though there are exceptions from time to time like VF5 or SC1-2.

And if we take survival horror in your example, I can see people liking Silent Hill because of the narrative and shying away from other franchises because they don't deliver the same impact. And that's not dismissing something like Resident Evil's overly campiness which can be fun too.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
You may like a specific genre, but that doesn't mean you have to like every game within it.

You've just realized that now OP?

Come On What GIF by MOODMAN
You're missing the point.

The overwhelming sales of RE compared to other Survival Horror games imply that there are people (a LOT of people) whose only SH game is an RE game. Which means those people are not fans of the genre, they only like RE.
 

Woopah

Member
You're missing the point.

The overwhelming sales of RE compared to other Survival Horror games imply that there are people (a LOT of people) whose only SH game is an RE game. Which means those people are not fans of the genre, they only like RE.
Correct. And I am an example of this.

I've enjoyed some Resident Evil games, but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy a game just because it has horror elements.

This is how things have always worked in entertainment.
 

Magic Carpet

Gold Member
I like walking sims genre, but damn if there are not a bunch of really bad ones available.
Problem is the few IP ones like Deliver Us Games are all over the place with what they 'delivered'.
I enjoyed Deliver Us the Moon but did not care for Deliver Us Mars.
Oh well back to walking through the muck to find the good ones. :(
 

Juja

Neo Member
people like something insofar as it is familiar. There are people who play Pokemon and hate JRPGs. There are people who play Mario Kart and hate racing games. etc.
I can vouch for this. I love the Mario Kart series and have played them for hundreds of hours (probably hundreds just on Mario Kart DS), but I have virtually no interest in any other racing games. I played the Speed Racer PS1 game a fair amount back in the day... But yeah, other than Mario Kart, F-Zero 99, and Diddy Kong Racing, I can't say I'm a very big racing game fan.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Cant it be both?

If someone likes Halo shooters it doesnt mean they like Halo Wars. But then there will be some who do.

There will also be Halo shooter fans who like other sci fi arena shooters too.
 

Juja

Neo Member
Pretty much. Just because I love Metroid Prime doesn’t mean I have any interest whatsoever in playing Call of Duty.
Are they considered the same genre? I absolutely love the Prime trilogy, but I've never played a CoD game and have zero interest. Back in he day, my friends had me try Socom and Medal of Honor, and it was very clear to me that army shooters are not meant for me.
 

Robb

Gold Member
Are they considered the same genre? I absolutely love the Prime trilogy, but I've never played a CoD game and have zero interest. Back in he day, my friends had me try Socom and Medal of Honor, and it was very clear to me that army shooters are not meant for me.
I’d call both FPS. But I know there are people who have tried to coin the term “FPA” (First Person Adventure) instead.

But if it’s not, Half-Life would be another example of an IP I love that fits the FPS genre (and is also more of an adventure game).

None of them are even remotely the same as something like CoD though, imo.
 
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Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
This is a linear action adventure game with stealth mechanism:

MV5BNTFmN2M0MGMtMTI5Ny00NzRlLWFlZGYtZDM0N2VmOTUwYTdmXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg


This is also a linear adventure game with stealth mechanism:
Iqy4ngMBhe4Ti2tV4ABSBhjF.jpg


Can you blame me for being an IP fan?
Pretty much this.

Having said that, if ND/Sony somehow got stuck on stupid and fucked up Uncharted, I'll skip it too. No IP/Genre deserves undying loyalty.
 

Wildebeest

Member
If you could explain why Resident Evil leaves every other horror franchise eating dust when it came to sales, you could probably make a lot of money. A lot of it probably comes down to perceived quality and a goldilocks type balance of content. With good pacing and a combination of action and atmosphere. I'd say it is better to compare it to things like Metal Gear, Bioshock, and Dark Souls.
 

Fbh

Member
Yeah people often tend to gravitate towards stuff they are familiar with. To an extent it's understandable that if you are going to spend your hard earned cash on a game, you'll prefer the new entry in a franchise you've enjoyed in the past vs taking a "risk" by trying something new.
It's no coincidence we get so many sequels, reboots and remakes and not a whole lot of new IP in the AAA space (and not just in gaming)
 
Alone in the Dark has low replayability and content for the price it asks for and I get much more mileage out of Crow Country, Signalis, Hollowbody, Fear the Spotlight, Dreadout Series, RE 1 HD, Luigi's Mansion 1. And it all has to do with great art direction, and a surreal spooky atmosphere.

Top 5-10 JRPGs is subjective. Golden Sun is the best JRPG ever but not everyone agrees.

Sesame Street Idk GIF
I played through Alone In The Dark 6 times already. Couldn't even get through all those you mentioned once due to lack of interest and I tried.
Sesame Street Idk GIF

Same with fighting games. If you like fighting games, what are the names you won't be missing a game when it releases? Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, King of Fighters ... every fighting game fan wants to buy games from those IPs, right? So why does Mortal Kombat sells like, 8 million units while Street Fighter sells a couple of million? Are there fighting game fans who absolutely detest playing Street Fighter but have an orgasm the second they play Scorpion vs Sub-Zero? Or is it that there are far more people who ONLY play MK, NOT because it is a fighting game, but BECAUSE it is MK? They are fans of the IP, and not the genre ITSELF.

Same with MK. If you only play MK and not SF, Tekken or Guilty Gear, there must be some other reason other than combos or gameplay that makes you play MK only - perhaps it is the excessive gore? The game's setting? Do you like the game's setting and the fatalities so much to the point of investing your time on a game that doesn't have gameplay that you like - because if you liked the fighting gameplay, you'd play other fighting games as well?
I kind of dislike half of those fighting games (or their current incarnations) with a passion. If you strongly like something you tend to be averse to other interpretations. Just think about those souls fanatics. If the souls style game isn't directed by Miyazaki they diss it even if it has undeniable mechanical improvements and one ups theirs truly in presentation.

Dead Space remake also sold a lot less than say, Resident Evil 8 or Re4make. And it's an amazing SH game. And I just don't get it. I mean, if you like SH games, it makes sense that you will be buying the 4-5 top names in Survival Horror, right? Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Dead Space, Alone in the Dark - those are the top names associated with AAA Survival Horror (add Dying Light and Dead Island if you feel really generous). Every Survival Horror fan wants to have games of those names in their collection, right? So why does Resident Evil games sell like 10 million copies each time in a span of a couple of years, but Dead Space and Alone in the Dark can't sell for shit? And yeah, I know that Dead Space Remake sold a couple of million, but it's still grossly less than RE4 or RE7.

And this is what boggles my mind. If you are a Resident Evil fan ONLY and not a Survival Horror fan - because if you were, you would have bought Dead Space, Silent Hill 2 and Alone in the Dark as well, and not just RE games - why ARE you a Resident Evil and not a Dead Space fan? Why did you become an RE fan? It mustn't have been the survival horror aspect, since that would've made you to buy other SH games as well. Was it the zombies? The local setting? Leon's haircut? Jill's boobs? Whatever it is, it must be something a lot more superficial than gameplay and game design, otherwise you'd have bought those other games as well.
If you think about it, space horror and Lovecraftian horror just do not have the same mass appeal as zombie adventures. Beyond that, Resident Evil marketing is far more prominent in different media formats. Dead Space and Alone in the Dark are somewhat obscure.
 
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Sebastian1295

Neo Member
Alone in the dark reboot failed in my opinion due to lack of marketing. Even hardcore gaming fans didn't know the game came out because there was 0 marketing. I didn't see ads on youtube, ads on X, ads anywhere which means that if the game dosen't stand out in an exceptional manner then it was bound to get lost in the shuffle.
 

GHound

Member
The two aren't really mutually exclusive and it's more of a case by case thing if anything. A counter example would be how Final Fantasy has fallen off a fucking cliff since the silent majority seems to have moved on after FFXV.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I played through Alone In The Dark 6 times already. Couldn't even get through all those you mentioned once due to lack of interest and I tried.
On the same token the high entry price and my lack of interest with no meaningful reason to replay more then once for each character prevented me from playing Alone in the Dark myself. But I am glad you were able to get your money's worth. Cheers.

In addition I am more partial to AA jank and retro stylized graphics and artstyles so that's a factor in itself.
 

artsi

Member
IMO there isn't anything that rivals Resident Evil since the RE7 and RE2 Remake came out.

They're basically perfect survival horror games in gameplay design, atmosphere and production values.
Memorable characters, awesome bosses, banger OST... there's everything.

Alan Wake 2 came close though, I love it.
 
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Aion002

Member
I love Resident Evil... Does that mean I have to enjoy Silent Hill and Alone in The Dark?

Because I don't.

The original SH was cool, but I disliked the others and the last time I played a Alone in The Dark game was on the ps1.

Confused Power Rangers GIF
 

DJTHEGREY

Member
Of course there are people that only like certain IPs and not necessarily the genre. There are also people who like certain genres. However just because you may like a a genre doesn't mean you'll like every game in that genre. When great games fail it's usually due to lack of promotion, lack of word of mouth or it's not as great as you think.
 

kevboard

Member
I already noticed in the OP that the genre definition of "survival horror" is once again spread out so liberally that it loses a lot of its meaning.
these games do not all fall under the same genre at all.


let's start with the fact that "horror" isn't a valid video game genre. so we can eliminate this entire term here. what is left is "survival", and survival as a game genre usually refers to a game where managing resources is important, and where death can mean a huge loss of progress.


Resident Evil 1 does this by limiting your inventory, making you pre-plan what to put into your storage box and what to bring with you, as you go out of the save room to execute your next move, and survive long enough to make it either back to the same, or find a new save room. you even have to manage how often you save, even that's part of managing resources in the form of ink ribbons. if you die without saving your progress by using this resource, you stand to lose a ton of progress, so survival and planning is important.

Resident Evil also has a huge focus on puzzle solving and combining items to solve them, a very textbook Adventure game element.

ergo, Resident Evil 1 is a Survival Action Adventure game.


Let's look at Dead Space. does dead space have survival elements? not really. you at no point really have to pre-plan something, inventory management is not a focus or hugely important, and dying just means quick-loading the last checkpoint.
does it have adventure elements? yes. there are puzzles and even metroidvania-esque elements, but it's not even remotely on the level RE1 integrates puzzles and adventure elements.

Dead Space's focus is way more on its shooter aspects than anything else. dying has no penalty, pre-planning isn't important. ergo, no survival elements, toned down adventure elements, prominent shooter elements.



so only looking at these 2 examples I don't think it should be surprising that someone who loves one of them doesn't necessarily also like the other.
these aren't part of the same genre whatsoever in my opinion. only the theming of them is the same, which is horror. but as I said "Horror" isn't a genre in gaming. game genres are defined by the game design elements and focus, not the theme.
Hifi-Rush is not a comedy game, it's a character action game mixed with rythm game elements. GTA5 isn't a crime comedy game, it's a sandbox open world 3rd person shooter.

Horror is a theme, and while themes can create an overlap in fanbases, the actual genres of these games are more important.
 
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