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[stn]

If they ever do make a game I am interested in (they haven't for a long time), I'll make sure to buy it used so they don't receive a penny from me.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

Soon Ubisoft wont own shit either

 

[BlitzerRadic]

They can say whatever they want and make whatever claim they want. I remember EULAs popping up in the 1990s, they are probably older than that, but I also remember that companies did ANYTHING possible to make sure this legal theory did not end up in front of a judge. They did not want this tested. So it's interesting to see Ubisoft advancing this theory in a court case. If I was Ubisoft I would probably just pay off The Crew people and settle this, but evidently they think that they will prevail and this idea will be approved by case law.

Why do people keep saying stuff like this? EULAs are generally enforceable and this has been proven in courts.

 

[RoadHazard]

I mean you can't steal a rental car.

What if you don't return it? Pretty sure that's stealing.

 

[Pejo]

Why do people keep saying stuff like this? EULAs are generally enforceable and this has been proven in courts.

*in the US. In the EU they are less so, and in some countries completely disregarded.

In my opinion, any agreement you sign post-purchase should not be legally enforceable.

 

[iQuasarLV]

I don't think anyone argues it's not a moral grey area.


The argument is whether what Ubisoft is doing is a legal grey area. Which it's definitely not. And piracy is definitely illegal.

So was alcohol for 13 years. Does not mean that times can change if there is money to be had if the winds blow a different direction.

 

[Last Hearth]

Piracy is wrong. UBI is not obligated to provide you a product on terms that you like, if you don't like the deal don't participate in the transaction.

 

[iQuasarLV]

Playing the devil's advocate here, you have a license for 'that' iteration of the movie. When it's gotten a 4K upgrade, it's essentially a new, replaced, item now. Your original license entitles you to the original product.

Oof that is a grey area for sure. Which product is the license for? the content delivered or the format it is offered. I say if they do not clarify what you are buying then it is a perpetual license until they can legally change the definition or declare it at the time of purchase.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

I have pirated games in the past but these days if I do get games illegally than it's mostly emulating old games which counts as another form of pirates I guess since I ain't gonna buy a GBA, DS, PS2, GameCube etc just to play a few games. And most of those emulated games are ones I already payed and played in the past.

I usually buy my Steam games which are all bought legitimately obviously. Ubisoft saying that are scumbags but I'm kinda of a hypocrite too since I support Steam and we don't truly own our games on Steam either but I sure as heck wouldn't mind if they ever become DRM free.

GoG being DRM free is obviously the best cause you own the shit fully. But I don't use gog because they don't allow visa gift cards to be use in there.

 

[Katatonic]

Screw Ubisoft and screw pirates. That being said, there needs to be some sort of regulation where your licenses are re-sellable, which would require re-evaluation and enforcement of what purchasing a digital license means.

 

[Pejo]

Screw Ubisoft and screw pirates. That being said, there needs to be some sort of regulation where your licenses are re-sellable, which would require re-evaluation and enforcement of what purchasing a digital license means.

Honestly we're probably due for a re-do of the DMCA and all related matters. So much has changed about the digital marketplace since it was created, and it was mostly written by people that have no understanding of the product.

The only thing is, I don't know if that would improve things for consumers or make it a whole lot worse. Corpos have a lot of money available for bribing lobbying politicians.

 

[poppabk]

it was a gray area in 2004. If you aren't aware of this by now, I don't know what to tell you. I don't like it same as anyone else, but all of these companies have this shit outlined in their respective licensing agreements. This is a war that was lost a long, long time ago, and it isn't going to change. Accept it or find a new hobby, but stop acting like this is new for games - or literally any other piece of entertainment media you are "buying" digitally or physically

Fixed that for you.
The only difference between digital and physical is that it is much easier for companies to fuck you over when it is a digital purchase.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I mean you can't steal a rental car.

Bodycam vids I've watched on youtube say otherwise lmao

 

[ZVWQP-9B8TM-VH9CT]

It's their product. They can choose how to sell access to it . If you don't like their method or you don't think the price is justified you are absolutely entitled to just not buy it and not engage with it, but that doesn't entitle you to get a free pirated copy of it.

Personally, this is one of the reasons why I think most games aren't worth $70 (or $80 now I guess), digital ones in particular. But I also don't have any problem waiting for them to go on sale to a price I'm willing to pay for a limited digital license (usually $40 or less)

Well, I feel I am entitled and I do it. And you can't do absolutely anything about it.

 

[Musashipan]

Just don't buy ubicrap stuff
That simple

 

[stickkidsam]

Lastly, despite all the fear-mongering about it, I have never heard of someone's digitally licensed content being no longer downloadable without being refunded. Yes, shops have gone offline and content has been delisted, but all that stuff (eShop, 360 marketplace, ps3/vita stores) is still downloadable today.

Didn't "The Crew" get its servers shut down and made unplayable?

Granted it was an online only game but at the end of the day that's still an issue of access, which is the crux of the "fear mongering". This can happen to any game, not just online only and it didn't used to be the case.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If buying something doesn't mean you own it, then taking it doesn't mean you stole it

 

[Robot Carnival]

I can't remember the last time I buy an Ubisoft game. it's been ages since nothing they release had really interested me. and after the whole "you don't own your games" and those NFT bullshit came out, I just blacklisted them on Steam and be done with it. the recent debacle with Shadows had solidified my resolve on this and they can do whatever they want at this point since I'm not going to touch their stuff at all.

 

[Krathoon]

Is there some kind of cracked Ubisoft Connect where you can play your games offline?

 

[Lokaum D+]

I mean you can't steal a rental car.

Of course u can, you shoudnt but you can.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I usually refrain from discussions on this topic because what is said can be misinterpreted easily. But I'll say this one thing that I often think of:

In the good old days, one person would buy a game disc and would get a complete game on that disc (no patches or internet required). He would play the game, finish it, and then give it to his friends, and get a different game from them. This was a common practice - sharing games among friends and cousins to reduce the cost of the hobby.

You could do that because you bought the disc and you owned it.

Now, publishers rarely ship the full, finished game on a disc. You have to use the Internet to either download the game or update it to its final (current) version. BUT you can't share your digital copy with others (P2P file sharing) like you used to do in the past.

The way I see it: game publishers killed the physical media, pushed everything to digital, changed "ownership" to "licensing", and then made it illegal to share games digitally. That somehow doesn't feel right to me.

 

[[Tact]]

Sort of a tangential question to the thread, but something that came to mind while reading.

Where do people stand on buying a game, but downloading a cracked copy to get around something like Denuvo? or alternatively downloading a rip of a movie you already own.

Would that 'legitimize' a pirated copy?

 

[FeralEcho]

Then it shouldn't say "buy" on the store, it should say "gain access for a limited time"

And priced accordingly. But nope they literally lie to your face and charge you for it!

With all the price hikes,greed and just overall taking the consumers for fools by constantly selling us lie upon lie this industry is ready to implode on itself and crash in a spectacular way and I personally can't wait for it!

So many companies deserving to go under for the lack of respect for their customers and insanely poor decision making by their dumb executives. It won't happen overnight but we're slowly getting there.

 

[Laptop1991]

Sort of a tangential question to the thread, but something that came to mind while reading.

Where do people stand on buying a game, but downloading a cracked copy to get around something like Denuvo? or alternatively downloading a rip of a movie you already own.

Would that 'legitimize' a pirated copy?

In the old days of disc's on PC, where you didn't need a launcher then yes it did legitimize it, as you bought a game and installed it and played it, and could do that on any PC but only one install per PC, so the game was yours no matter where you got it, because you paid for it and owned it and they couldn't stop you, which is the real issue here,

Then came the different launchers where you had to buy multiple copies of the same game depending where you bought it, and wanted to play the same game ie Steam, GOG, Epic or Ubisoft etc, I have 2 copies of the Fallout games especially Fallout 4 because of Bethesda's anti mod update last year, GoG and Steam.

And now it's you don't own them at all and will like it, pay more and put up with it, no i won't!. it's pure greed in the end, and gamers and customer's will fight back by not buying, which is what Ubisoft is finding out but still they insist they are right even though their sales and company is tanking!, madness

 

[drganon]

Ubisoft can't be absorbed and destroyed into tencent quick enough.

 

[Edgelord79]

If you accept the agreement then you agree to the terms. So in effect it is stealing. I'm not sure of the moral grey area here.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

.
the meme "If paying for games means you dont own them, then pirating games isn´t stealing" is making the rounds online. I bet publishers love that kind of publicity. Especially when their games come out half-baked, with "anti-pirating" solutions that only hurt the day one customer. On top of that, they are asking for money...yikes

 

[Barakov]

This pretty much ensures I'm not buying an Ubisoft game any time soon.

 

[RayHell]

Jokes on them, I don't buy their games.

 

[MacReady13]

This is the future many of you fuckers wanted so you know what? Deal with it. Piracy is no big deal if we never own any of these digital games.

 

[kat_on_the_roof]

Ubisoft and i have an agreement. I dont own their games and i only "buy" their games for 5 Euro from the garbage bin.

 

[SolarFry]

Then they should name the button "Rent" when you buy games on their store. Won't that be fair?

 

[phant0m]

Didn't "The Crew" get its servers shut down and made unplayable?

Granted it was an online only game but at the end of the day that's still an issue of access, which is the crux of the "fear mongering". This can happen to any game, not just online only and it didn't used to be the case.

Yes, but this is the case even if you own the disc. I wasn't talking about games getting shutdown, that happens all the time. But no one that owned the crew lost their license.

 

[Randall365]

It's not a difficult concept - you buy a licence - a permission - which is subject to limitations and can be withdrawn in certain circumstances - like a liquor licence, driving licence, drone flying licence etc etc etc

If you don't get the permission, you are breaking the law.

 

[Fabieter]

Well I never a saw a big company morally completely fine so no it sucks but that doesn't make it right for you to pirate a game.

 

[stickkidsam]

Yes, but this is the case even if you own the disc. I wasn't talking about games getting shutdown, that happens all the time. But no one that owned the crew lost their license.

Sure, and everyone signs whatever license agreement they get. The point is that it's a shit way to do things that shouldn't be supported.

In effect, it's no different from having your license taken from you. It's just planned obsolescence. What good is there in defending a practice that turns a disc into a paperweight?

 

[Mattyp]

It baffles me that it has been this way for like 30+ years yet gamers still pretend to be shocked. Next you are going to tell me I don't own the NFL game broadcast on my TV.

I mean you do own the physical copy of the Super Bowl on VHS you bought but.

If you buy digital this is the future you wanted and you own nothing.

 

[Liopleurodon]

They can insist on whatever they want.

 

[Duchess]

I've seen people say to this:

If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.

 

[Verchod]

Piracy is theft. No grey area.
But I don't see why you can't own something that's digital.
It's more that various industries haven't bothered to put any great effort into finding a solution to this. Also, why should you purchase be tied to a store. That's another problem that needs fixing.

 

[Kadve]

Keep saying this but, this why EULA's aren't legally binning in many parts of the world. Companies being able to say whatever in them.

 

[BlackTron]

Just look at digital games on sale for 5-10 bucks as blockbuster rentals. Play an ownable game while waiting.

 

[phant0m]

Sure, and everyone signs whatever license agreement they get. The point is that it's a shit way to do things that shouldn't be supported.

In effect, it's no different from having your license taken from you. It's just planned obsolescence. What good is there in defending a practice that turns a disc into a paperweight?

Not defending it, my point is that physical still doesn't save you.

It's directed at the "physical 4ever! Then you can't take my games away" crowd

 

[stickkidsam]

Not defending it, my point is that physical still doesn't save you.

It's directed at the "physical 4ever! Then you can't take my games away" crowd

Yeah, I love physical but it hasn't been the safety net it once was since the 360.

 

[MMaRsu]

It's not a difficult concept - you buy a licence - a permission - which is subject to limitations and can be withdrawn in certain circumstances - like a liquor licence, driving licence, drone flying licence etc etc etc

If you don't get the permission, you are breaking the law.

Just because companies want you to act this way does not make it right.

You ever heard of a license for a movie? Or a book you bought? Or an album? Or a painting?

It's pathetic and only happens in THIS industry. And the gamers are too scared to take a stand. EVER