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[Elcid]

A preface as a clarification:
Do I believe in prehistoric creatures? Yes, 100%.

So I watch a lot of dinosaur videos with my son, he's obsessed with the damn things and sometimes I hear these facts and I'm like wait wtf?
I started looking into dinosaur toy collecting, apparently it's a pretty common father/son hobby and thought "cool, he'll love that" but the more I look into it...they apparently soft reboot these damn dinosaurs every decade.
New research based off a fucking toe bone or some crap like that changes the damn creatures entirely. For a while they had lizard skin. Then feathers. Now they're saying they might have had hair. They can't tell me if a T. Rex was a giant chicken or a giant lizard.
One T. Rex toy my son owns literally has chicken feet, another one has lizard like feet. Wtf? Look at some of this shit below. How can they tell one dinosaur was 66 million years ago, another 112, another 98 million.
It legitimately feels like they are just taking wild shots in the dark in terms of whatever sounds cool and just rolling with it.
Am I crazy or does this just sound like Hollywood bullshit?

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/dinosaur-bone-age1.htm

"Giganotosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur that lived in what is now Argentina, during the early Cenomanian age of the Late Cretaceous period, approximately 98 to 97 million years ago. The holotype specimen was discovered in the Candeleros Formation of Patagonia in 1993, and is almost 70% complete. Wikipedia"
"Tyrannosaurus[nb 1] is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), often called T. rex or colloquially T-Rex, is one of the most well-represented of the large theropods. Tyrannosaurus lived throughout what is now western North America, on what was then an island continent known as Laramidia. Tyrannosaurus had a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 68 to 66 million years ago. It was the last known member of the tyrannosaurids, and among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event."

"Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur that lived in what now is North Africa, during the upper Albian to upper Turonian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 93.5 million years ago. Wikipedia"

 

[AnotherOne]

Gotta keep people interested in dinosaurs somehow I guess... for example I just have a set mindset of Trex being a huge ass giant lizard with stumpy arms, fuck the whole feather idea even if it might be true.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Dinosaurs are bullshit. The word didn’t exist until sometime in the 1800s. Dragons on the other hand were all over the place in ancient history. If you took a dragon skeleton and dragged the wing portions off to the side somewhere, what would you be left with?

Spoiler

a Tyrannosaurus rex RAAAWWWRR

 

[AgentP]

What is so confusing? They can date the stratum they find the fossils in, it's pretty accurate. Talking about soft tissue like skin and stuff is a lot harder since you are dealing with fossilization which by definition works on hard stuff like bones and teeth. If they get lucky they can get impressions of feathers and skin. It's science, it's an process or learning and it never ends. If you want certainty then find Jesus.

 

[cr0w]

 

[AngularSaxophone]

They found this dragon... I mean dinosaur recently. Tell me that looks old to you.

Spoiler

its not they’re still here

 

[Elcid]

What is so confusing? They can date the stratum they find the fossils in, it's pretty accurate. Talking about soft tissue like skin and stuff is a lot harder since you are dealing with fossilization which by definition works on hard stuff like bones and teeth. If they get lucky they can get impressions of feathers and skin. It's science, it's an process or learning and it never ends. If you want certainty then find Jesus.

Yeah I know that part but they release one theoretical sketch and BOOM movies and action figures and models follow immediately after.

This is amazing.

They found this dragon... I mean dinosaur recently. Tell me that looks old to you.

Spoiler

its not they’re still here

This thing looks cool as fuck but doesn't look real,

 

[AngularSaxophone]

It’s real. Search Canadian mine dinosaur. It’s from a year or two ago. Bullshit that thing is millions of years old. Dragons, moon machines, bacon wrapped hotdogs, what the FUT.

 

[synchronicity]

Yeah I know that part but they release one theoretical sketch and BOOM movies and action figures and models follow immediately after.

Well, science and commerce are two different, if sometimes overlapping, things.

 

[Codes 208]

Dinosaurs are bullshit. The word didn’t exist until sometime in the 1800s. Dragons on the other hand were all over the place in ancient history. If you took a dragon skeleton and dragged the wing portions off to the side somewhere, what would you be left with?

Spoiler

a Tyrannosaurus rex RAAAWWWRR

I was expecting you to say Jesussaurus Rex. Which was hundreds and hundreds of Years old by the laws of MTN DEW IS THE BEST SODA EVER MADE

 

[Chairman Tickles]

I suspect that at the end of the day, even the biggest Raptors resembled nothing more than standard flightless birds, with some resembling chubby oversized budgies and parrots, as shown in that drawing. Jurassic Park may turn out to be one of the most misleading films ever made. I find the long necked herbivorous dinos more interesting.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I suspect that at the end of the day, even the biggest Raptors resembled nothing more than standard flightless birds, with some resembling chubby oversized budgies and parrots, as shown in that drawing. Jurassic Park may turn out to be one of the most misleading films ever made. I find the long necked herbivorous dinos more interesting.

Bububu all those bones in the museums!

Spoiler

plaster, fake, etc

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Even if the fake bone reconstructions (based on fossils) are 100% accurate, they have no fucking clue what kind or quantity of skin and other coverings these pre-historic critters had. While the skeletons are 60% speculation, the rest is 100% speculation.

 

[hecatomb]

I suspect that at the end of the day, even the biggest Raptors resembled nothing more than standard flightless birds, with some resembling chubby oversized budgies and parrots, as shown in that drawing. Jurassic Park may turn out to be one of the most misleading films ever made. I find the long necked herbivorous dinos more interesting.

Its based of the books, Jurassic Park and Lost world, and there was only 2 books. Later they made a movie about Jurassic Park. Raptors were only the size of chickens. And most small predators wouldn't bother with humans. Ive walked past bobcats, and coyotes. They just kind of looked at me and walked away. Now compare that to a small lizard the size of a chicken.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Even if the fake bone reconstructions (based on fossils) are 100% accurate, they have no fucking clue what kind or quantity of skin and other coverings these pre-historic critters had. While the skeletons are 60% speculation, the rest is 100% speculation.

Exactly

Spoiler

but we all know they were dragons

 

[Greedings]

Palaeontologists update their views on dinosaurs as more information arises. Science, is never static.
Still a lot of what's going on with dinosaurs is inference at best, and downright made up at worst. Fossils are all we have.

Most sciences have mini-reboots every now and again, especially when someone makes a big paradigm shifting discovery, or in some cases when many people make tiny little points to a certain direction until it's so obvious what the answers is, we're all just waiting for someone to connect the dots.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

we're all just waiting for someone to connect the dots.

Already done. We’ve just been taught it’s myth

Spoiler

Terry of Yokosuka

 

[#Phonepunk#]

a lot of science is taking wild shots in the dark. they work from what little evidence they have, and in some cases it may be fragments. its like being a detective but you only have to be accurate within hundreds of thousands of years. paleontology is constantly being updated and scientists are no strangers to trends like any other field or industry.

recently i have been thinking about evolution, and if humans are the superevolved form of chimps, then how come there have never been any superevolved forms of other animals? how come there are not human-like descendants of other animals? are humans really that special? why no superevolved cats or horses or lizards or, indeed, dinosaurs? you would think if that kind of vertical evolution was likely that there would be other examples.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I had that same thought not too long ago. It’s because we’re not super evolved chimps. God made us in His image. Everything else was from His imagination. And it all works together like a symphony when we aren’t in our own heads. By the way you see that Canada dragon a few posts up? Way more than fragments. Think something woulda come outta that right? SWEEPSWEEPSWEEP.

 

[Greedings]

recently i have been thinking about evolution, and if humans are the superevolved form of chimps, then how come there have never been any superevolved forms of other animals? how come there are not human-like descendants of other animals? are humans really that special? why no superevolved cats or horses or lizards or, indeed, dinosaurs? you would think if that kind of vertical evolution was likely that there would be other examples.

What does "super evolved" mean? If by that you mean we're the most adapted to our environment, there are millions of species that are super evolved. Rats are fucking crazy. They can liver anywhere and everywhere. They can adapt to a new environment extremely quickly and thrive.

My main point is that you are misunderstanding what evolution is. There's no such thing as "super evolved."

 

[hecatomb]

I don't think the dinosaurs evolved. I think they wiped out by climate change, lack of finding food, or humans killing them off. Though the word dinosaur wasn't around thousands of years ago, they used other words like behemoths and leviathans

 

[Cleared_Hot]

I don't think the dinosaurs evolved. I think they wiped out by climate change, lack of finding food, or humans killing them off. Though the word dinosaur wasn't around thousands of years ago, they used other words like behemoths and leviathans

You actually think humans and Dino's ar existed together?!

 

[hecatomb]

You actually think humans and Dino's ar existed together?!

there are some religions of them mentioning killing, or fighting behemoths and leviathans. They didn't have the word "dinosaur" yet.

 

[llien]

They found this dragon... I mean dinosaur recently. Tell me that looks old to you.

Spoiler

its not they’re still here

Amazing, and finger crossed for "not fake".

 

[Greedings]

there are some religions of them mentioning killing, or fighting behemoths and leviathans. They didn't have the word "dinosaur" yet.

There are also religions mentioning magic, but they didn't have the word magic yet.

 

[Lucumo]

recently i have been thinking about evolution, and if humans are the superevolved form of chimps, then how come there have never been any superevolved forms of other animals? how come there are not human-like descendants of other animals? are humans really that special? why no superevolved cats or horses or lizards or, indeed, dinosaurs? you would think if that kind of vertical evolution was likely that there would be other examples.

All intelligent beings have always ended up destroying themselves. It's an endless cycle and now it's humanity's turn.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Dinosaurs are bullshit, but no-one disbelieves the Platypus?

Priorities, people. #theplatypusisahoax

 

[Rentahamster]

recently i have been thinking about evolution, and if humans are the superevolved form of chimps, then how come there have never been any superevolved forms of other animals? how come there are not human-like descendants of other animals? are humans really that special? why no superevolved cats or horses or lizards or, indeed, dinosaurs? you would think if that kind of vertical evolution was likely that there would be other examples.

What is "superevolved"? Do you mean smart? That's not how evolution works. Natural selection only requires that an animal is fit enough to survive and pass on its genes to the next generation. As you can observe, most of the animals on Earth can do this perfectly fine without being smart, and there is little evolutionary pressure to nudge them in that direction.

 

[E-Cat]

How can they tell one dinosaur was 66 million years ago, another 112, another 98 million.

Have you ever heard of igneous rocks and radiocarbon dating?

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/radiodating_01

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

I like to think the feathers thing isn't true, it just totally makes dinosaurs a lot less cool.

Is there skepticism about it in the paleontology field?

I know in the past there used to be a big debate over dinosaurs being either warm or cold blooded with most accepting them as warm blooded now, so clearly there's a lot we don't know about these creatures and it's open to debate and speculation.

Already done. We’ve just been taught it’s myth

Spoiler

Terry of Yokosuka

I'm gonna blow your mind and tell you that the reason there are stories about dragons is because people found... old dinosaur bones.

The myth of the cyclops is thanks to elephant skulls for example.

I'll be reallllllllly generous though and say maybe it's possible a few dinosaur species survived extinction, because the idea is cool, but really unlikely though.

a lot of science is taking wild shots in the dark. they work from what little evidence they have, and in some cases it may be fragments. its like being a detective but you only have to be accurate within hundreds of thousands of years. paleontology is constantly being updated and scientists are no strangers to trends like any other field or industry.

recently i have been thinking about evolution, and if humans are the superevolved form of chimps, then how come there have never been any superevolved forms of other animals? how come there are not human-like descendants of other animals? are humans really that special? why no superevolved cats or horses or lizards or, indeed, dinosaurs? you would think if that kind of vertical evolution was likely that there would be other examples.

See, you're hitting the nail on the head about something.

Why are humans so unique? There's not a single other species with comparable language or intelligence on the entire Earth and never has been, it's really odd.

Maybe it was God, maybe it was aliens, but there's definitely something funky about human beings, something happened to us that was not the normal path of evolution, I truly believe that.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I'm gonna blow your mind and tell you that the reason there are stories about dragons is because people found... old dinosaur bones.

What about the Norse? Weren’t they the ones with the dragon boats to scare the sea monsters? There’s an old map that has pictures of what looks like Chinese dragons in the waters. It wasn’t just the Chinese. Dragons were in atleast a few ancient cultures and are even mentioned in the Bible. Check this out. Every instance of dragon outside of the one who fell was either changed to some other animal or flat out removed. This was Daniel before he was sent to the lions den.

“There was also a huge dragon which the Babylonians worshiped. One day the king said to Daniel, “You can't tell me that this god is not alive. So worship him!” “I worship the Lord,” replied Daniel. “He is the only living God. And if Your Majesty will give me permission, I will kill this dragon of yours without using a sword or a club.” “You have my permission,” answered the king. So Daniel took some tar, some fat, and some hair and boiled them all together. He made cakes out of the mixture and fed them to the dragon. When the dragon ate them, it swelled up and burst open. “That's the kind of thing you Babylonians worship,” said Daniel. When the people of Babylon heard what had happened, they staged an angry demonstration against the king. “The king has become a Jew,” they shouted. “First he destroyed Bel and slaughtered the priests, and now he has killed our dragon.””
‭‭Bel and the Dragon‬ ‭14:23-28‬ ‭GNTD‬‬

I’ve even seen Catholic art work with dragons in it and there’s a story of Marco Polo visiting a kingdom that still had living dragons as well. What time period does media like the Witcher and game of thrones take place in? More dragons there too.

 

[AgentP]

Maybe it was God, maybe it was aliens, but there's definitely something funky about human beings, something happened to us that was not the normal path of evolution, I truly believe that.

Well maybe you should do some reading? This isn't about belief. This information is readily available in the modern era, being ignorant these days is just being lazy.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

This should really blow your mind. Found in 1977 picked up by a fishing boat. They tried to explain it away as some shark carcass. it literally still has its wings attached.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuiyo-maru_carcass

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

I had that same thought not too long ago. It’s because we’re not super evolved chimps. God made us in His image. Everything else was from His imagination. And it all works together like a symphony when we aren’t in our own heads. By the way you see that Canada dragon a few posts up? Way more than fragments. Think something woulda come outta that right? SWEEPSWEEPSWEEP.

If that's true, God made Roblox, League of Legends, Dota, and Dota 2. Those are all horrendous looking abominations he made. Why did he make them? Did he go on a drunken bender and say fuck it?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Dinosaurs being giant murderous chickens is easily one of my favorite biological theories lol

 

[petran79]

 

[Zaru]

Holy shit the Dunning-Kruger in this thread is off the charts unless everyone's just trolling and in on the joke

 

[julio_grr]

Nice troll, OP.

 

[Elcid]

Nah. And I don’t even claim to know half the stuff these guys are talking about. Just because one doesn’t have the ability to throw out formulas and calculations on command doesn’t mean my eyes are lying to me. Talk about no sense. It’s like I’m repeatedly being told to stop using my senses. What do we have them for? Anyway I’m waiting for my guy julio_grr that one really has my brain going.

Have you ever heard of igneous rocks and radiocarbon dating?

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/radiodating_01

Yes. See my link in the OP...

Well maybe you should do some reading? This isn't about belief. This information is readily available in the modern era, being ignorant these days is just being lazy.

Last time I checked evolution was still a theory? What book do you have that has the law of evolution along with the concrete evidence of each stage, along with the missing links?

Dinosaurs being giant murderous chickens is easily one of my favorite biological theories lol

Hands down.

Edit:
"Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur that lived in what now is North Africa, during the upper Albian to upper Turonian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 93.5 million years ago. Wikipedia"
18.5 million years seems like a pretty fucking huge margin of error, and it's probably much larger.

 

[Pejo]

a lot of science is taking wild shots in the dark. they work from what little evidence they have, and in some cases it may be fragments. its like being a detective but you only have to be accurate within hundreds of thousands of years. paleontology is constantly being updated and scientists are no strangers to trends like any other field or industry.

recently i have been thinking about evolution, and if humans are the superevolved form of chimps, then how come there have never been any superevolved forms of other animals? how come there are not human-like descendants of other animals? are humans really that special? why no superevolved cats or horses or lizards or, indeed, dinosaurs? you would think if that kind of vertical evolution was likely that there would be other examples.

Well common theory on that is being warm blooded (survive temperature extremes) and opposable thumbs (enabled use of tools) are two of the biggest reasons, supposedly.

 

[AgentP]

Last time I checked evolution was still a theory? What book do you have that has the law of evolution along with the concrete evidence of each stage, along with the missing links?

Most of science is theories, does that mean you ignore them all and read nothing? Your life and all of technology is based on scientific theories, it might be time to pick up a book and learn about these theories.

There are many poplar books that can wash away this fog of scientific ignorance.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143116649/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q1IUP8/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004U8NB2M/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0741F3M7C/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Just find a subject of interest and look for a well respected author with good reviews.

 

[Elcid]

Most of science is theories, does that mean you ignore them all and read nothing? Your life and all of technology is based on scientific theories, it might be time to pick up a book and learn about these theories.

There are many poplar books that can wash away this fog of scientific ignorance.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143116649/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q1IUP8/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004U8NB2M/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0741F3M7C/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Just find a subject of interest and look for a well respected author with good reviews.

Not at all. Just saying you can't dismiss belief unless you can disprove it, and theories don't disprove belief until they are proven. Which is my point entirely, everything around dinosaurs are theories and some seem more ridiculous and far fetched than others. I'm personally leaning more towards giant chickens myself.

 

[Fbh]

Didn't they go extinct like 65 million years ago?
I think it's normal they don't have them 100% figured out

 

[AgentP]

Not at all. Just saying you can't dismiss belief unless you can disprove it, and theories don't disprove belief until they are proven. Which is my point entirely, everything around dinosaurs are theories and some seem more ridiculous and far fetched than others. I'm personally leaning more towards giant chickens myself.

Don't mix beliefs and science, they belong to different domains. There no standard of evidence for belief. Everything around dinosaurs is theories, yes, everything in science is theories. Your use of the word "theories" and "proof" is a red flag and typical of anti-science religious people. If that is the case, then there is nothing to discuss, your beliefs trump reality.

 

[cryptoadam]

We have a hard enough time putting together what Egyptians looked like, or even if Jesus was black/white/brown so ya I think you need to cut scientist some slack that they don't have a complete 100% picture of what creatures looked like 100's of millions of years ago.

 

[Elcid]

Don't mix beliefs and science, they belong to different domains. There no standard of evidence for belief. Everything around dinosaurs is theories, yes, everything in science is theories. Your use of the word "theories" and "proof" is a red flag and typical of anti-science religious people. If that is the case, then there is nothing to discuss, your beliefs trump reality.

My point is that you can't dismiss this earlier post "Maybe it was God, maybe it was aliens, but there's definitely something funky about human beings, something happened to us that was not the normal path of evolution, I truly believe that." as being ignorant as anything other than God that you might present is just a hypothesis and is not factually supported, just like God, or that poster's belief.
"Well maybe you should do some reading? This isn't about belief. This information is readily available in the modern era, being ignorant these days is just being lazy."
And I don't agree with your belief and science are two different domains. These theories and hypothesis being sold to us by science in a lot of cases just that, beliefs based on evidence. People believe in God because of whatever occurrences in their life that they determine to be evidence. For example, if a scientist is presenting to us that dinosaurs have feathers, it is their theory based on their belief due to their interpretation of whatever physical evidence they have been able to review. Even now scientists cannot tell us what dinosaurs look like, thus my earlier point that what we know of them so far sounds like a lot of bullshit.

For clarification, I have no problems with science, or theories, such as evolution, but at the end of the day, they are theories until proven otherwise. That means you cannot dismiss other theories in the name of science, and that means your theory may in fact be wrong.

For example, science cannot for a fact tell us dinosaurs didn't look like this so is someone stupid for thinking this is how they look? No, as ridiculous as that looks.

This is equally as ridiculous unless proven otherwise.

 

[AgentP]

We have a hard enough time putting together what Egyptians looked like, or even if Jesus was black/white/brown so ya I think you need to cut scientist some slack that they don't have a complete 100% picture of what creatures looked like 100's of millions of years ago.

The time between now and the end of the dinosaurs (most of them) is 65m years, which is far less than the time between the first dinosaurs and the last, 165m years. Most people can't grasp these timescales or don't try. Reptiles ruled the Earth, both lands and sea for a very long time. It takes extinction event to shake things up and lucky for us mammals got a break.

 

[7echnicolor]

I love coming into any science related topic just to check whether or not Saxomaphone is posting his bullshit

 

[triplestation]

Fucking fiction bro. It's just the toy business. All that shit is art. They dig up these bones and arrange them however they want.

It's obvious they are dragons. Look at old ass art with dragons in it. It's the government bro they wanna cover that shit up.

 

[AgentP]

For clarification, I have no problems with science, or theories, such as evolution, but at the end of the day, they are theories until proven otherwise.

You don't prove theories, they will be theories forever. Proofs are for mathematics. So you either get on board with current scientific consensus (or come up with a theory that better fits the data) or you sound like a loony who denies reality based on belief and ignorance.