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Why don't you like/play 2D sprite based fighters?
- Thread starter Ferrio
- Start date
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I play them all the time. Saturn Capcom stuff mostly, DC for 3rd Strike and CvsSNK2 (prefer the visuals to the Xbox version--that, and Agetec stick of course). As I always say:
There's always room for Street Fighter (or any reasonable facsimile thereof).
There's always room for Street Fighter (or any reasonable facsimile thereof).
Outdated visuals and almost 10 year old sprites.
I love Guilty Gear X/X2 and will definitely get Isuka, but the rest of the 2D fighters are currently unappealing to me.
When Capcom decides to update the character sprites and SNK finally makes the jump into the 20th century, I'll get more excited about 2D fighters.
I love Guilty Gear X/X2 and will definitely get Isuka, but the rest of the 2D fighters are currently unappealing to me.
When Capcom decides to update the character sprites and SNK finally makes the jump into the 20th century, I'll get more excited about 2D fighters.
The question should be: Why don't we play the 2D fighters you like ???
Everybody has his own preferences...I play a lot of Kof 96, SFIII 2nd Impact and Street Fighter Zero 2 while I don't touch 3S and GGXX2...
There has been a lost in the feeling that fighters transmit to me...For me it's not only about the gameplay but also about the art, the music and the whole package...And I don't like how the last 2D fighters turned to be...
Everybody has his own preferences...I play a lot of Kof 96, SFIII 2nd Impact and Street Fighter Zero 2 while I don't touch 3S and GGXX2...
There has been a lost in the feeling that fighters transmit to me...For me it's not only about the gameplay but also about the art, the music and the whole package...And I don't like how the last 2D fighters turned to be...
ourumov said:The question should be: Why don't we play the 2D fighters you like ???
Everybody has his own preferences...I play a lot of Kof 96, SFIII 2nd Impact and Street Fighter Zero 2 while I don't touch 3S and GGXX2...
There has been a lost in the feeling that fighters transmit to me...For me it's not only about the gameplay but also about the art, the music and the whole package...And I don't like how the last 2D fighters turned to be...
Don't see how you could not like 3S if you like 2nd.
Ferrio said:
Me neither, considering 3rd Strike is a noticable improvement over 2nd Impact.
And I also think that people base a lot of their hate of recent fighters (SVC, CVS2) based on what the tourney whores are thinking at the moment. Don't like game X at the moment, but love game Y's top-tier characters? Fuck it; game X doesn't exist, I'll just practice game Y. But wait! Some tourney finalist decided to take a crack at game X and used a couple of "low tier" characters to win a couple of tourneys! Game Y can wait, I'll just play game X for the next six months. It's tiresome.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Aren't ppl always going on about the better bg's in 2nd Impact? Only reason I can think of.
This has been discussed a lot of times but although I give you the reason about 3S improved system and refined gameplay there are a lot of things I never liked:
1. Horrible music...
2. Simplistic Backgrounds.
3. Changed voices.
4. Worse graphics due to IQ issues...
Anyways, I don't hate 3S. I even have it and play it regularly...just that in my case 2nd Impact is the one that's always on the DC. Another thing I faced when playing 3S were problems in the parrying execution...I can't parry enough good...
My case is strange since I just play 2D fighting games with only one person. We started playing 2D fighters on the SNES when we were children and never stopped playing them till this day.
We know how each other plays and combats are more about prediction than tech...That's the reason why I love 2D fighters so much.
1. Horrible music...
2. Simplistic Backgrounds.
3. Changed voices.
4. Worse graphics due to IQ issues...
Anyways, I don't hate 3S. I even have it and play it regularly...just that in my case 2nd Impact is the one that's always on the DC. Another thing I faced when playing 3S were problems in the parrying execution...I can't parry enough good...
My case is strange since I just play 2D fighting games with only one person. We started playing 2D fighters on the SNES when we were children and never stopped playing them till this day.
We know how each other plays and combats are more about prediction than tech...That's the reason why I love 2D fighters so much.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
ourumov said:
That's exactly my story. Exactly.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
because the street fighter style fighting game fad is over?
aka: another 2d clone of it every week
aka: another 2d clone of it every week
But there's only about 1.5 major fighters released per year now...
Between 2D and 3D there's so many styles of fighters that there's really something for everything if you like the genre. Maybe it's the depth, how many people are scared off by the investment needed to be a decent player? Back in the day, people just played for the hell of it but now that arcades are near dead, the Internet is helping to maintain the community for those left while scaring some people off due to the elitism and egos.
Between 2D and 3D there's so many styles of fighters that there's really something for everything if you like the genre. Maybe it's the depth, how many people are scared off by the investment needed to be a decent player? Back in the day, people just played for the hell of it but now that arcades are near dead, the Internet is helping to maintain the community for those left while scaring some people off due to the elitism and egos.
Stupid topics are unforgivable!
But hey, I'll rain on your 2D parade here a little, specifically Guilty Gear X2. We had a Armored Core party this last weekend and GGX2 got played for a little bit. I completely HATE the graphics and character design. All the fawning over "beautiful hand drawn animation frames" I've read about this game, and yet what I saw was just more of the horrific "lots of randomly wacky stuff is good" shonen fighting anime character design so preposterously overanimated that it all just becomes a big Fruity Pebbles colored mess. If there's a simple attack in there that didn't involve some strap & buckle laden character doing two backflips, a twist, and contortions a yoga master would wince at all within a fraction of a second, I sure didn't see one. I suppose it could have been a real visual treat if I had thought to buy and consume a vendor sized box of Pixie Stix from Sam's Club beforehand, but as it was, I was just glad I don't have epilepsy. There's beautiful animation, and there's spastic overdesigned garbage. GGX2 is the latter.
But hey, I'll rain on your 2D parade here a little, specifically Guilty Gear X2. We had a Armored Core party this last weekend and GGX2 got played for a little bit. I completely HATE the graphics and character design. All the fawning over "beautiful hand drawn animation frames" I've read about this game, and yet what I saw was just more of the horrific "lots of randomly wacky stuff is good" shonen fighting anime character design so preposterously overanimated that it all just becomes a big Fruity Pebbles colored mess. If there's a simple attack in there that didn't involve some strap & buckle laden character doing two backflips, a twist, and contortions a yoga master would wince at all within a fraction of a second, I sure didn't see one. I suppose it could have been a real visual treat if I had thought to buy and consume a vendor sized box of Pixie Stix from Sam's Club beforehand, but as it was, I was just glad I don't have epilepsy. There's beautiful animation, and there's spastic overdesigned garbage. GGX2 is the latter.
Mystifizor
Banned
Don't like it??? I LOVE IT!! Street Fighter II is and was one of the greatest games of all time! And that's only one of thousands......
Grifter said:
That's how I feel...tourney whores and egomaniacs are helping to kill the genre. A fighter can't JUST be fun anymore...people go nuts now if a game isn't "tourney ready" (i.e., characters do/take more than %10 damage with an attack) or if their pet characters aren't "top tier" (despite the fact that they'll never win/place/show in a tournament no matter what guys they use.)
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
There's a kind of purity in the best 2D fighters that I really admire.
For most people, I think that the 2D fighter simply moves too fast and requires such specialized input (QCF) to play. Sure, anybody can pick one up and press some buttons, but I think that getting truely versed in a game like KOF and SF3rd seems unachievable to many. Especially when there are very good 3D fighters like SC2 that are easier to play.
I've seen a lot of people drop the controller when I explained how to perform a super motion.
For most people, I think that the 2D fighter simply moves too fast and requires such specialized input (QCF) to play. Sure, anybody can pick one up and press some buttons, but I think that getting truely versed in a game like KOF and SF3rd seems unachievable to many. Especially when there are very good 3D fighters like SC2 that are easier to play.
I've seen a lot of people drop the controller when I explained how to perform a super motion.
When I was getting to know Guilty Gear XX, I thought about this a lot. The best reckoning I could come up with is that Capcom killed its own cash cow in a couple of ways back in the mid-'90s.
Street Fighter III is a good game. But it was too expensive, which was bad for operators -- the same thing that killed Virtua Fighter 3 in the states. So that limited its audience. And then the complexity of the game created a huge gap in that limited audience between beginners and experts. You don't meet many fair-to-middling Street Fighter III players. You're either really good, or you're getting whupped on by someone who's really good, and the latter ain't much fun.
The Versus games had a certain amount of appeal to casual players because of the licenses and the flash and the speed and all that, but again I think they offered too much complexity in certain areas. Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 has enough characters to make your head spin. The Capcom Vs. SNK games have all these Grooves and this Ratio horseshit to the point where just selecting your goddamn characters without a FAQ handy is a complete crapshoot. A beginning player's going to drop a quarter down one of these games, wind up completely confused, possibly get beaten stupid by the local hardcore players, and never come back.
So then you've kinda got a downward spiral starting there. The general decline of American arcades gives it another push. The fewer people you've got playing fighting games, the less chance a new fighter has to succeed. And so on down the spiral, until Guilty Gear XX comes out and nobody cares.
GGXX I thought represented a lot of smart design decisions as far as making a game that could appeal to casual players. It's good-looking, it's flashy, it's fast. It's not that complex on the surface -- you just pick your character from a decent-sized lineup and go. It's fun to play at a beginning to medium level of skill while you're learning the deeper aspects of it. It does a lot of the right things in a 2D setting that Soul Calibur does in 3D, SC being a lot friendlier to newer players than Tekken or Virtua Fighter (although I was extremely impressed by the many ways in which the PlayStation 2 version of VF4 did its best to accomodate beginning players -- Guilty Gear would do well to follow its lead with a more detailed training mode, more single-player modes, maybe an AI mode, other cool stuff like that).
But like I say, the genre's been in decline so long that there aren't enough people left to give it a chance.
DFS.
Street Fighter III is a good game. But it was too expensive, which was bad for operators -- the same thing that killed Virtua Fighter 3 in the states. So that limited its audience. And then the complexity of the game created a huge gap in that limited audience between beginners and experts. You don't meet many fair-to-middling Street Fighter III players. You're either really good, or you're getting whupped on by someone who's really good, and the latter ain't much fun.
The Versus games had a certain amount of appeal to casual players because of the licenses and the flash and the speed and all that, but again I think they offered too much complexity in certain areas. Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 has enough characters to make your head spin. The Capcom Vs. SNK games have all these Grooves and this Ratio horseshit to the point where just selecting your goddamn characters without a FAQ handy is a complete crapshoot. A beginning player's going to drop a quarter down one of these games, wind up completely confused, possibly get beaten stupid by the local hardcore players, and never come back.
So then you've kinda got a downward spiral starting there. The general decline of American arcades gives it another push. The fewer people you've got playing fighting games, the less chance a new fighter has to succeed. And so on down the spiral, until Guilty Gear XX comes out and nobody cares.
GGXX I thought represented a lot of smart design decisions as far as making a game that could appeal to casual players. It's good-looking, it's flashy, it's fast. It's not that complex on the surface -- you just pick your character from a decent-sized lineup and go. It's fun to play at a beginning to medium level of skill while you're learning the deeper aspects of it. It does a lot of the right things in a 2D setting that Soul Calibur does in 3D, SC being a lot friendlier to newer players than Tekken or Virtua Fighter (although I was extremely impressed by the many ways in which the PlayStation 2 version of VF4 did its best to accomodate beginning players -- Guilty Gear would do well to follow its lead with a more detailed training mode, more single-player modes, maybe an AI mode, other cool stuff like that).
But like I say, the genre's been in decline so long that there aren't enough people left to give it a chance.
DFS.
the SF2 series was simple enough yet *PERFECT*. SF3 and SFA and everything after that became so fucking complicated, I just never had the time to learn all the new fucking terms and techniques and frame counting and blalbalblala.
Life is too short, and I dont have 90h to spend on the new iteration of Ryu.
Life is too short, and I dont have 90h to spend on the new iteration of Ryu.
Every Thursday night I pretty much have 2-D fight night with select few of my buds that are actually good at them. We play eveything from KOF2003 to Darkstalkers. 3-D fighters too everything from SC2 to Last Bronx haha. Though I wish I knew more people into these games as well.
anotheriori
Member
The problem is that it is supposed to be a skill based game because of its arcade roots, that by design must be made deep enough so that players don't get bored with it or find horribly broken tactics. Thats why everyone seems to hate DOA because lack of depth, yet it appeals to everyone.
This is where its a balancing act.. you either make it easy for a noob to play (CvS2 GC mode) thus frustrating the average players or make it so that the easy player who doesn't know how to play gets completely owned if they're just mashing buttons.
You also need the tourney scene / high level play there in order to keep the interest around, just look at CvS2 and MvC2 still being used in tourney what being 2-3 years old each. Stuff like Roll canceling and infinities gives average players reasons to improve and learn new strategies, also for the most part (as far as head to head play goes) it keeps the competition for the game 'alive'. Sure you and a buddy might be the only playing it left, but eventually there will be no competition for it, like playing cricket when everyone else is playing baseball.
Now i see the complaints with CvS2 to the casual player being too confusing but as a seasoned player i find it rather lacking (maybe because its soo old now), but how would you solve that? Simplicity? well we already have Street Fighter 2.. and most people won't play a simply rehashed game, you'd have to completely change the 2d fighting 2/3 rounds with life bars concept.
Another sad but true thing is that alot of casual gamers are lazy to learn and just want a to jump in and beat the best player, unfortunately that won't happen unless the outcome is like completely random like paper scissor rock.. (aka DOA heh, don't hurt me DOA [boobies] fans)
That being said, I myself was a very serious tournament level player for a while and I still am in a way (competing in CvS2 mainly) tho tourney mentally and playing for fun is completely different. Sure of course I play to win, but I'll pick characters who are fun to use, however that being said I'll use every tactic I can with my choosen character. Totally avoiding the top tier to be like an underdog only user is foolhardy too, you should atleast know why they are good and how to play against them with your weaker characters.
We have local tourneys every few months here in the NW and I play casually every couple days.
This is where its a balancing act.. you either make it easy for a noob to play (CvS2 GC mode) thus frustrating the average players or make it so that the easy player who doesn't know how to play gets completely owned if they're just mashing buttons.
You also need the tourney scene / high level play there in order to keep the interest around, just look at CvS2 and MvC2 still being used in tourney what being 2-3 years old each. Stuff like Roll canceling and infinities gives average players reasons to improve and learn new strategies, also for the most part (as far as head to head play goes) it keeps the competition for the game 'alive'. Sure you and a buddy might be the only playing it left, but eventually there will be no competition for it, like playing cricket when everyone else is playing baseball.
Now i see the complaints with CvS2 to the casual player being too confusing but as a seasoned player i find it rather lacking (maybe because its soo old now), but how would you solve that? Simplicity? well we already have Street Fighter 2.. and most people won't play a simply rehashed game, you'd have to completely change the 2d fighting 2/3 rounds with life bars concept.
Another sad but true thing is that alot of casual gamers are lazy to learn and just want a to jump in and beat the best player, unfortunately that won't happen unless the outcome is like completely random like paper scissor rock.. (aka DOA heh, don't hurt me DOA [boobies] fans)
That being said, I myself was a very serious tournament level player for a while and I still am in a way (competing in CvS2 mainly) tho tourney mentally and playing for fun is completely different. Sure of course I play to win, but I'll pick characters who are fun to use, however that being said I'll use every tactic I can with my choosen character. Totally avoiding the top tier to be like an underdog only user is foolhardy too, you should atleast know why they are good and how to play against them with your weaker characters.
We have local tourneys every few months here in the NW and I play casually every couple days.