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Why portable gaming is an abomination
- Thread starter Neutron Night
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Kobun Heat
Member
I'm not even sure if I have to go into the laundry list of reasons as to why that would be an awful idea.BeOnEdge said:
Mr. Lemming
Member
I want a new Mario game like that... hopefully the DS one gets its shit together and does 2.5d better than Klonoa 2 did.
Mr_Furious
Member
If this thread has done anything it's made me realize that I use my SP for connectivity more than "portable gaming".
I can sort of decipher some of NN points but the quality of games shouldn't have been brought up. The GBA(SP) offers some phenomenal games, it's just that their price points are usually a little expensive for my liking. No GBA game is worth more than $20 with the newest batch of NES ports (is the SNES library all dried up already
) only worth $10 (and should be bundled). But that's my opinion.
I can sort of decipher some of NN points but the quality of games shouldn't have been brought up. The GBA(SP) offers some phenomenal games, it's just that their price points are usually a little expensive for my liking. No GBA game is worth more than $20 with the newest batch of NES ports (is the SNES library all dried up already
) only worth $10 (and should be bundled). But that's my opinion.Well certainly the gameplay couldn't be so ... I'll use the word "loose", but I don't necessarily see what's so outright awful about that idea.
If anything I'd argue it would be preferable to have a 2D Mario with CPS3 levels of animation detail or something.
All I have to say at this point before the original GameBoy, there was no misunderstanding on anyone's part, from developer to manufacturer to consumer; everyone understood that portable gaming was secondary and inferior to consoles. Nor were portable games assumed to be a mandatory component of being a videogame fan. Everyone understood that portables merely attempted to recreate a superior videogame experience already provided on some other platform.
Thanks to Nintendo, now I have to make the choice between -
- supporting handheld hardware for the software that I am "a fan of", no matter how inferior the products are.
- ignoring handhelds, and not supporting the companies which still make the games as well as be subject to ridicule by all other "true videogame fans".
StrikerObi
Member
Kobun Heat
Member
Okay, I guess I do.
1) It would be impossible to replicate the gameplay exactly in 3D. Furthermore, some things that make sense in 2D wouldn't make sense in 3D (Cheep Cheeps flying up through bricks and bridges, etc.)
2) It would be undesirable, from a mass market standpoint, to have a 'new', 3D Mario game that had two-dimensional, straight-line gameplay.
3) It would require a huge amount of manpower, about as much as you'd need to make a brand new, entirely original Mario game.
4) It would feature no advantages for people who have played the hell out of the originals, since by its design the only thing that is new is the graphic style.
5) It would be a total waste of time. If you're going to do a new 3D engine and do all this work, it might as well be a brand-new, original game.
1) It would be impossible to replicate the gameplay exactly in 3D. Furthermore, some things that make sense in 2D wouldn't make sense in 3D (Cheep Cheeps flying up through bricks and bridges, etc.)
2) It would be undesirable, from a mass market standpoint, to have a 'new', 3D Mario game that had two-dimensional, straight-line gameplay.
3) It would require a huge amount of manpower, about as much as you'd need to make a brand new, entirely original Mario game.
4) It would feature no advantages for people who have played the hell out of the originals, since by its design the only thing that is new is the graphic style.
5) It would be a total waste of time. If you're going to do a new 3D engine and do all this work, it might as well be a brand-new, original game.
God's Hand
Banned
Neutron Night. Not only are you an insult to human achievement, you're a failure at giving logical reasons for your foolish rant.
Nintendo makes the GBA. They do it their way. They're number one. People like it. Developers like it.
If you don't like it, fuck off. Simple! Why people bitch and moan about hardware, technology, etc. is beyond me. Fucking pointless.
Nintendo makes the GBA. They do it their way. They're number one. People like it. Developers like it.
If you don't like it, fuck off. Simple! Why people bitch and moan about hardware, technology, etc. is beyond me. Fucking pointless.
Kobun Heat
Member
I guess the writer's point was that if what you say is true, you're either retarded or brainwashed or both.TheDiave said:
i don't agree that you can't replicate the 2d mario games in 3d - you could probably use the same 2d collision boxes even with 3d graphics, and it'd be easy enough to have enemies like cheep cheeps always appear in front of background geometry.
i do agree that remaking them would be all but pointless. the nes games have aged with consummate grace, and even if those won't do for you, we've got super mario all-stars. would've been nice to see all-stars ported to gba, but obviously nintendo prefer to sell it to us in installments.
i do agree that remaking them would be all but pointless. the nes games have aged with consummate grace, and even if those won't do for you, we've got super mario all-stars. would've been nice to see all-stars ported to gba, but obviously nintendo prefer to sell it to us in installments.
Spiritreaver
Member
drohne said:
I have never really liked it when people said this, I doubt that if you were put in the position that decided to do this, you wouldn't do it too. They sold anyways, and sold well. I know you think it's a bit of a rip off with All Stars in existance, but eh, NIntendo really likes to make money (what company doesn't) and that seems to really be what the SMAs and NES classic are about.
Kobun Heat said:
1. think of how clockwork knight played. hell think of how SSBM plays. not 3d play. 2d play.
2. i think ur wrong. if you were right, mario sunshine would have sold truckloads. people loved the platforming levels. we need a return to the old gameplay.
3. this wasnt a problem with mario allstars or the GBA versions. why is it a problem now?
4. then why does nintendo re-release everything else?
5. you wouldnt need a new engine. you take SSBMs engine and make it do full levels instead of enclosed stages.
(I skipped the whole thread)
I can tell you're a little angry. You know, I kind of agree with you a little bit. Nintendo's latest handheld does seem like a ripoff from a technical point of view. Hell, it can't even do exact NES ports thanks to its asstastic resolution. The constant porting doesn't really help either. Funny thing is that people on this board actually want even MORE ports. Oh well.
Neutron Night said:
I can tell you're a little angry.
You know, I kind of agree with you a little bit. Nintendo's latest handheld does seem like a ripoff from a technical point of view. Hell, it can't even do exact NES ports thanks to its asstastic resolution. The constant porting doesn't really help either. Funny thing is that people on this board actually want even MORE ports. Oh well. I disagree with Portable Gaming being the sux. It has its audience and place.
That said, I'm sickened by Nintendo's cheap porting ways instead of either doing collections with multiple ports, or creating new content. Yes, they do create new content, but not as often as I'd certainly like.
This is the main reason I want the PSP to rise up as a good competitor to the GBA/DS (which is a damn gimmick, imo, but that's another topic) and force Nintendo to get off their comfort place and work for the money they take away from consumers.
And damn you nostalgic gamers supporting this kind of shit. I have nothing against buying old ports, but selling them separately and for a high price is ridiculous and shouldn't be supported.
That said, I'm sickened by Nintendo's cheap porting ways instead of either doing collections with multiple ports, or creating new content. Yes, they do create new content, but not as often as I'd certainly like.
This is the main reason I want the PSP to rise up as a good competitor to the GBA/DS (which is a damn gimmick, imo, but that's another topic
) and force Nintendo to get off their comfort place and work for the money they take away from consumers.And damn you nostalgic gamers supporting this kind of shit. I have nothing against buying old ports, but selling them separately and for a high price is ridiculous and shouldn't be supported.
Spiritreaver
Member
IJoel said:This is the main reason I want the PSP to rise up as a good competitor to the GBA/DS (which is a damn gimmick, imo, but that's another topic
And damn you nostalgic gamers supporting this kind of shit. I have nothing against buying old ports, but selling them separately and for a high price is ridiculous and shouldn't be supported.
Like I said, it makes money, again put yourself in the position and you'd do it too.
Secondly, how is the PSP going to do this with PS2 ports? :\ Yeah they'll have original games, but I'd like to see the current amount of DS ports and PSP ports. :\ I just felt that the PSP showed off more ports than the DS, at least at E3. Secondly, additional content to any ports to the DS will be highly encouraged with the touch screen and dual screen. I also believe Nintendo wanted developers to not make games that didn't use any of the features and make them for the GBA instead.I honestly think both handhelds will have ports and the PSP maybe moreso.
Mr_Furious
Member
Where were the piles of this "free" Zelda collection? From my recollection, I had to fork over money for some certain other Nintendo product and then received the disc. I'm not saying I don't appreciate Nintendo's gesture but these freebies weren't just sitting on the counters of stores for people pick up with no obligations. These were incentives to promote sales of their other games.btrboyev said:
SolidSnakex
Member
DarthWufei said:
Probably had alot to do with there being more games announced for the PSP at E3 than there were for the DS.
Mr_Furious
Member
Kobun Heat said:
1) It would be easy enough to design around if Nintendo bothered. Otherwise it wouldn't make much difference if Cheep Cheeps flew through bricks, bridges, etc, 2D or not. Logic holds no place in a Mario game, anyways
2) Says who? Nintendo has millions of faithful fans that would eat this up much more easily than their Mario Sunshine effort.
3) Not at all. Nintendo has a huge library of assets to utilitize for this project if they so chose to do it. Use SSBM engine (modified) along with the tons of already developed 3D models and they'd be far enough along already. 12 people max, could get the job done, in about a year to 18 months (maybe less) if they pooled their resouces and put the right people in place.
4) Who says Nintendo couldn't "enhance" these remakes, if they so chose to. There's a lot of additional elements that could be implemented. Not to mention that Super Mario All-Stars sold a ton and it held no new innovations, just better graphics. The fans would buy this up in a heartbeat.
5) Not true. See my previous comments for the reasons.
SolidSnakex
Member
Grubdog said:
Then I hope you never got excited for any handheld up until the DS.
Mr_Furious
Member
Nintendo can and probably will port some of their N64 library with added touch/dual screen features.Grubdog said:
DarthWufei said:Like I said, it makes money, again put yourself in the position and you'd do it too.
In all fairness, Nintendo was still in the business of making money when they released Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES, and they released that as a single cartridge. They're just milking these properties more than they used to, plain and simple. Regardless of the reasoning behind it, it's kind of sad.
Spiritreaver
Member
SolidSnakex said:
It's not really like ports were ever that much of a problem for any handheld. You could also find original games from the same genre that you could enjoy. Even on the GBA majority of the titles AREN'T ports so it's no big deal. Not even for the PSP and DS.
My comment was that saying that the PSP is going to stop Nintendo from porting by having PS2 ports, is silly.
Spiritreaver
Member
Tellaerin said:
You shouldn't really be just mad at Nintendo. Be mad at the people who bought the titles, they're the ones encouraging it. Honestly, if it makes them money and keeps them in business they should just milk them dry.
EDIT: Then again it's not like it's stopped them from creating original titles witht he popular franchises... except with Mairo platformers, but we've got a new Zelda and a new spin off Zelda thanks to the GBA, Mario Kart, Mario and Luigi, Fire Emblem, and so on. Porting really doesn't seem to be that huge of a deal to me as some people make it out to be.
SolidSnakex
Member
DarthWufei said:It's not really like ports were ever that much of a problem for any handheld. You could also find original games from the same genre that you could enjoy. Even on the GBA majority of the titles AREN'T ports so it's no big deal. Not even for the PSP and DS.
My comment was that saying that the PSP is going to stop Nintendo from porting by having PS2 ports, is silly.
Yah but the above poster said he can't understand why any gamer would get excited for the PSP because the games could be released on consoles. So why would you be excited about any handheld system before the DS? All those games could've been done on systems too, but it didn't stop the GB/GBA from being big successes.
Spiritreaver
Member
SolidSnakex said:
Oh very well, I read into that other post differently. I read it more as you were saying ports have always been a problem and that he wasn't interested in the PSP because of ports than why be interested in previous GB systems?
Oh well, I see what you mean then. Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Neutron Night said:
what about kids that are the same age now as you were back then in the day when you were enjoying the original GB - maybe they are using the GBA now for the same reason. were you complaining back then that your gameboy wasnt powerful enough? by the way, i never used my gameboy as a distraction to shut me up. i used it becuase i could play good games on it whenever i wanted. and i still use my gba on long plane trips for the same reason. i don't know how you can compare the original GB technology with the current GBA technology - just the size of the games alone is a huge difference.
blah.
idiot.
SolidSnakex
Member
Dan said:
Were the ones appearing on the GB viable on the NES/SNES? I'd think so, but that didn't stop them from being made anyway. Also with the PSP there could be a bunch of niche 3D games on the system that wouldn't really be viable on consoles. Just look at Planet Moon, who made Armed and Dangerous that got overlooked on consoles so they're trying out another platform.
SolidSnakex said:
I didn't say they couldn't be made, nor did I attempt to say that people should have been excited for the Game Boy back then. I was however pointing out why someone would be excited about the GBA, since it did/does offer games that would never have a shot on consoles.
I was excited about Gameboy many years ago because it let me play Pokemon at school. Because it was portable, that was new. Now it's evolved to SP, a very nice, very portable game system. Perfect for gaming anywhere. But there is no way i'd bring a PSP to school, it's way too expensive to risk that, plus the battery could run out, where's the fun in that? Portable game systems have been established, now all that's left is for them is to be improved. DS doesn't only enhance portable gaming, it enhances videogaming in general, with a new way to play games. That's why i'm more excited about the DS. Now, why would i be excited about the PSP? I already have a Gameboy.
I'm finding it a bit hard to explain the point i'm trying to make, so whatever, pick that post apart if you want, I don't care. You can drool over the PSP all you want, but I won't.
I'm finding it a bit hard to explain the point i'm trying to make, so whatever, pick that post apart if you want, I don't care. You can drool over the PSP all you want, but I won't.
Dan said:
You keep insisting that the PSP is somehow at a disadvantage because it's capable of delivering an experience similar to what the current consoles offer, only in portable form. The point you keep missing is that this is exactly what some people want in a handheld. Not 'a refuge for oldschool 2D games', not 'games that aren't commercially viable on current consoles', just the ability to play games that look and sound as similar as possible to the ones they play at home while on the way to and from work, on their lunch break, or any other time they want to get their gaming fix but don't have a console and TV handy. I think there's at least as large an audience out there for that kind of experience as there is for 2D retro thrills, but until the PSP, there hasn't been a mass-market portable capable of fulfilling their desires. That's another reason I think the PSP and the Gameboy/DS line are capable of coexisting comfortably--the systems cater to different audiences, with different desires and expectations when it comes to handheld gaming. There'll be some overlap, sure, but I think it's hardly going to be an either/or market.
Mr_Furious
Member
What gamers want and what they can actually afford might end up being two different things regarding the PSP, but that's neither here nor there.
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