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[IDKFA]

In 2021, it'll be ten years since George RR Martin released the last book in the Song of Ice and Fire series: A Dance of Dragons.

This got me thinking about Winds and it's incredibly long delay.

In 2015 George put up a post on his blog. It was an apology for not having Winds out. In this post, he said that he was confident he'd have a finished manuscript by October that year, but missed the deadline. At this point, the book must have been almost finished, so why the delay?

If I'm guessing, I think he put himself under pressure. He knew the book he had in 2015 wasn't anywhere near the quality of previous books and had to start the process again. This is the only explanation that makes sense.

Although I love ASOIAF, I don't believe the previous two books were near the quality of the first three, so personally I'm happy with the delay if it results in a book as epic as Storm of Swords.

Then there is the TV series. He probably wanted the book to be a better quality to the TV series ending. I know people think that the TV ending will be the same in the books, but I disagree.

There are characters in the book that never made it in the show (Lady Stoneheart and the 'nephew' are two massive ones from the top of my head), people who died in the books and not the show and vice versa. The show was already doing its own thing, but when they ran out of books it just went pure fan fiction. Also, it's hinted that future books will involve mother fucking Krakens raised from the depths with blood.

Question now is, will we see Winds next year? Will the series ever be finished because when that's done we then have to wait for Dream of Spring. Shit. I was 11 when Game of Thrones came out in 1996. At this rate I could be pushing 50 when the series is over!

 

[Richard Packer]

No.

 

[ESPOMAN]

Probably not. I read the first two books and I really enjoyed them but I will just read the whole series when Winds of Winter gets announced if it ever does. I figured I will forget everything that happened if I read the series now. I feel like he is too distracted he writes and edits other books and does a ton of interviews.

 

[Yoda]

Nope

 

[O-N-E]

I'm optimistic.

All the excerpt chapters I've read have been great. At the very least George doesn't have a problem telling us which chapters he's working on and how things are going.

With Rothfuss though....

 

[T.v]

I'm optimistic.

All the excerpt chapters I've read have been great. At the very least George doesn't have a problem telling us which chapters he's working on and how things are going.

With Rothfuss though....

After Wise man's fear no one should be excited for anything Rothfuss

 

[O-N-E]

After Wise man's fear no one should be excited for anything Rothfuss

I strongly disagree as it includes some of my absolute favourite moments in any piece of fiction but to each their own.

 

[Kadayi]

 

[DKehoe]

There are characters in the book that never made it in the show (Lady Stoneheart and the 'nephew' are two massive ones from the top of my head), people who died in the books and not the show and vice versa. The show was already doing its own thing, but when they ran out of books it just went pure fan fiction. Also, it's hinted that future books will involve mother fucking Krakens raised from the depths with blood.

I'm drawing a blank here, who is the nephew?

 

[Sorcerer]

What does it matter at this point? If he was not interested in finishing it before, the series getting ahead of him and ending with such a sour note surely killed his passion for it. George must feel like he is chained to his desk everytime he sits down to continue writing it. Even if book 6 manages to ever see the light of day, forgot about book 7. I seriously wonder if he is under any contractual obligation to finish it or if his publishers are never going to to push him because he is/was a goldmine for them no matter what happens in the future? I am sure the publishers have ghostwriters in mind to finish it if George never does. But sadly they will just probably follow the show.

 

[King of Foxes]

The fat fuck will never finish the series

 

[GeorgPrime]

Yes. Around christmas 2021

 

[Kadayi]

What does it matter at this point? If he was not interested in finishing it before, the series getting ahead of him and ending with such a sour note surely killed his passion for it. George must feel like he is chained to his desk everytime he sits down to continue writing it. Even if book 6 manages to ever see the light of day, forgot about book 7. I seriously wonder if he is under any contractual obligation to finish it or if his publishers are never going to to push him because he is/was a goldmine for them no matter what happens in the future? I am sure the publishers have ghostwriters in mind to finish it if George never does. But sadly they will just probably follow the show.

The show followed GRRMs outline for how things play out. Certainly, that likely had to change a few things, but the principle ideas follow through and GRRM has confirmed this.

 

[JimiNutz]

When it comes to this subject, always assume no.

 

[Sorcerer]

The show followed GRRMs outline for how things play out. Certainly, that likely had to change a few things, but the principle ideas follow through and GRRM has confirmed this.

Mia Culpa, I thought George himself was disappointed with how the series ended (specualtion, of course). So with that being said has any desire for the books died down since the series ended? I am sure next 2 books will flesh out many more details not in the series but if that is how it basically ends is there still a strong desire for books, outside the hardcore fans?

 

[Whataborman]

No.

GRRM has no reason or motivation to finish the series and the story now that HBO has done it for him.

 

[Kadayi]

Mia Culpa, I thought George himself was disappointed with how the series ended (specualtion, of course). So with that being said has any desire for the books died down since the series ended? I am sure next 2 books will flesh out many more details not in the series but if that is how it basically ends is there still a strong desire for books, outside the hardcore fans?

I think its fair to say that D&D didn't do a great job with Season 7 & 8 in large part because things felt overly rushed. However, as stated they were working off the outline GRRM gave them in lieu of the books and tbh the show had been running on fumes ever since season 5 with certain character storylines to the extent that they were having to generate filler (like the whole Brienne and Tormund thing for instance) as a means to not necessarily pad things out, but at least give the secondary actors on contract something to do. Ultimately when all is said and done, neither HBO nor D&D thought that GRRM as an Executive producer (and thus having a vested interest in the series success) was going to piss away the 6-year advantage he had on the show doing anything other than endeavouring to wrap the book series up. He left them high and dry with very little material to work with, in the final third. Everyone is all about blaming D&D, but they forget if the fat fuck spent less time dicking about on other things, the showrunners would have had proper material to work off of. Instead every year he'd trot out on his blog to Mea Culpa about how hard it has been and the Fans never call him on his BS because Neil Gaiman told them that 'GRRM is not their Bitch'. In a different universe, Neil Gaiman said 'Yeah he's a Lazy Fat Fuck who needs to pull his finger out and quit hanging out with the gruesome twosome from westeros.org' and people in that universe got a decent show and timely book releases ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Elcid]

This is why I refuse to get involved with incomplete things these days.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

No. He's done.

 

[IDKFA]

I'm drawing a blank here, who is the nephew?

Spoiler

Young Grif, aka Aegon, who is currently laying siege to Storms End with the Golden Company, complete with war elephants.

 

[DKehoe]

Spoiler

Young Grif, aka Aegon, who is currently laying siege to Storms End with the Golden Company, complete with war elephants.

Ohhhh, right yeh. Dunno why that didn't click for me. Yeh I think the overall end game will be similar but there's enough variables at play that the route the books take to get there will be different. At this point it takes as long as it takes.

 

[IDKFA]

Ohhhh, right yeh. Dunno why that didn't click for me. Yeh I think the overall end game will be similar but there's enough variables at play that the route the books take to get there will be different. At this point it takes as long as it takes.

Yeah agreed. I think the Bobby basics of the story beats will be there, but it'll play out totally different to show.

I'm cool with George taking his time, as long as the quality matches the first three books. Feast and Dance were good, but we're nothing like the epic that is Storm of Swords, which I regard as one of the greatest books ever written. If Winds is as good as Storm of Swords it would have been worth the wait.

 

[Nester99]

The story has been told. It’s over.

 

[eot]

I'm optimistic.

All the excerpt chapters I've read have been great. At the very least George doesn't have a problem telling us which chapters he's working on and how things are going.

With Rothfuss though....

I think all the excerpts were chapters that got cut from ADwD

 

[Ballthyrm]

It will probably be 1200 or more pages.
I think the show finishing and the greater public leaving the franchise must have liberated some of the pressure.

I don't really like that HBO has more ASOIAF related show coming as they will drain his time and willpower.

All he need is to be left alone for a while until he is bored enough to only want writing.
That's what he did most of his life without any issue and that's where is passion lie.

Leave the man alone, and the books will come in time.

 

[Ballthyrm]

IDKFA

George wrote about it in his blog today.

 

[MrS]

This motherfucker better be working 8 days a week on Elden Ring.

 

[bitbydeath]

The show followed GRRMs outline for how things play out. Certainly, that likely had to change a few things, but the principle ideas follow through and GRRM has confirmed this.

From my limited experience of writing a book series I can tell you not everything you originally intend comes to pass especially the deeper you get.

You setup the chess pieces but the fallout can have consequences and roll-on effects that go unknown until you reach that point of writing.

 

[Kadayi]

From my limited experience of writing a book series I can tell you not everything you originally intend comes to pass especially the deeper you get.

You setup the chess pieces but the fallout can have consequences and roll-on effects that go unknown until you reach that point of writing.

I'm going off what he said. Sure, things probably might change some in the implementation, but the broad strokes should be the same.

 

[RetroRibosome]

It’s been twenty years since Storm of Swords, the last book that wasn’t split in two with a cut-out finale.

My expectations are low.

 

[GAMETA]

If I had to guess, I'd say he's been procrastinating for years, not because he doesn't want to write it, but because he's a perfectionist... maybe the idea of writing something that he doesn't have all the answers to is unbearable to the point where it's easier not do anything and wait while the ideas slowly take form in his mind.

There's also the fact that, with the series, the guy has finally enjoyed some real real money... I wouldn't blame him for wanting to enjoy life and work on different things instead of putting an immensurable effort into a project that started more than 2 decades ago.

Let the old man do as he pleases, with luck he's got maybe 20 years more... book or no book doesn't really make a difference.

 

[eot]

IDKFA

George wrote about it in his blog today.

At this point I'm not sure I'll even buy it when it comes out. Even if we get TWoW, we're probably not getting whatever is supposed to come next.

 

[Coolwhhip]

Who cares at this point?

 

[DKehoe]

Who cares at this point?

From the amount it's still discussed it seems like a lot of people do.

 

[Paltheos]

No. Never.

Also, addt'l plot twist: The reason we've heard so little of Elden Ring is def. b/c Martin hasn't turned in a draft to From.

 

[IDKFA]

IDKFA

George wrote about it in his blog today.

Thanks for the tip mate.

Wow. What a coincidence that the day I was thinking about Winds, Gerorge would provide an update.

No, sorry, still not done, but I do inch closer.

fuck sake.

Probably as I should have expected. It seems like this book has really taken a toll on his mental health. I'd be surprised if he didn't suffer from some sort of writers PTSD after he's done.

However, the last line gave me some hope.

So that’s where all that stands. Or at least, that’s as much as I am allowed to tell you right now.

Hang in there, friends.

That's as much as he's allowed to tell us now? I really hope he is referring to Winds and not the new TV show with that sentence. I hope this means that the ending to writing winds will be in sight!

Please, I prey to the old gods and the new that Winds of Winter is released by Summer 2021.

 

[finowns]

I can’t believe it’s been 10 years

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I’ve given up hope. If it ever comes it’ll be a pleasant surprise but also come with the knowledge A Dream of Spring or whatever will never come. Also The Name of the Wind likely won’t ever be finished.

On another note I’ve never read Wheel of Time and that got finished right?

 

[TheWanderingOgre]

You know what. That last blog entry got my spirits up on the whole thing.

I can barely imagine how massive the book will be when it finally is released.

 

[IDKFA]

I’ve given up hope. If it ever comes it’ll be a pleasant surprise but also come with the knowledge A Dream of Spring or whatever will never come. Also The Name of the Wind likely won’t ever be finished.

On another note I’ve never read Wheel of Time and that got finished right?

This is my fear as well. If it has taken 10 years to finish Winds (assuming it'll be out next year), then what about Dream? Another then years? Longer? I know he said that he hasn't even started Dream yet, which is a concern because he had a head start with Winds as material was cut from Dance and used as a starting point for that book. With Dream, it appears it's a clean slate.

Yeah, Wheel of Time was finished, but Robert Jordan didn't finish it himself. He died before the series could be completed and Brandon Sanderson was brought in to write the last few books.

I am pretty sure George has said that he wouldn't allow anybody to finish ASOIAF. If he dies, the series then dies with him. I'm hoping he's changed his mind since.

 

[BaneIsPain]

He just kinda forgot about it.

 

[Jon Neu]

Mia Culpa, I thought George himself was disappointed with how the series ended (specualtion, of course). So with that being said has any desire for the books died down since the series ended? I am sure next 2 books will flesh out many more details not in the series but if that is how it basically ends is there still a strong desire for books, outside the hardcore fans?

The fact that those hack frauds known as D&D knew some of the plot points of how the series end, doesn't mean they did any good job at executing them, quite the contrary.

Of course GRRM is dissapointed, he trashed the Lost ending and the GoT ending was a thousand times worse. LIFE COMES AT YOU FAST, FATTY!

 

[Jon Neu]

If I had to guess, I'd say he's been procrastinating for years, not because he doesn't want to write it, but because he's a perfectionist... maybe the idea of writing something that he doesn't have all the answers to is unbearable to the point where it's easier not do anything and wait while the ideas slowly take form in his mind.

I'm pretty sure Martin has most of the answers in his head already, I'm sure he knows what the endgame is with most of the characters and plots, but what he wants is to write them in the best and most organical way possible, and that's a monumental task.

And I'm sure he has spent a lot of months or even years away from writing ASOIAF for the sake of his own mental health.