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[Li Mu Bai]

It's crazy how you people are exaggerating Halo's impact against those of the PS2's heavy hitters this holiday season. MGS3, GTA:SA, GT4, can & will outsell Halo 2. You all who argue this point are failing to see the huge installed userbase discrepancies in the NA sector alone between the two systems. It took 3 years for Halo to reach the 3 million+ plateau, & all of the sudden every single Box owner will purchase one? Unlikely. You speak of an X-Box momemtum that was just countered by the PS2's price-cut. You disregard other potentially huge sellers like MP2:Echoes & RE4 which will most assuredly be within the top 10 sellers this holiday season. As if everyone will drop their other game preferences for Halo 2. I am not saying it will not sell well, it most definitely will. But GAFers, come to your senses, Pokemon Fire Red & Green Leaf could outsell it. NFS:UII, Burnout 3, Forza, etc. will be literally wiped by GT4's sales. They will "not" steal it's marketshare as many of you so assert.

 

[jarrod]

In Japan they were around 2 years apart, in the US GT1 was released in '98 and GT2 was released in '99.

Well April '98 and November '99 more specifically.

Point is there were several other factors for GT2 not being as big as GT1 than the market maturing. Especially since the PSone's racing market was already extremely packed back then anyway with all the Ridge Racers and NFS.

Sure, but really it all boils down to GT2 just not having the same impact as GT1. It was just "more" essentially... and really GT4 falls into the same pitfalls (though online play could help alleviate that a little, it won't be a defining difference for the vast majority of casuals who buy GT either).

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It's crazy how you people are exaggerating Halo's impact against those of the PS2's heavy hitters this holiday season. MGS3, GTA:SA, GT4, can & will outsell Halo 2. You all who argue this point are failing to see the huge installed userbase discrepancies in the NA sector alone between the two systems. It took 3 years for Halo to reach the 3 million+ plateau, & all of the sudden every single Box owner will purchase one? Unlikely. You speak of an X-Box momemtum that was just countered by the PS2's price-cut. You disregard other potentially huge sellers like MP2:Echoes & RE4 which will most assuredly be within the top 10 sellers this holiday season. As if everyone will drop their other game preferences for Halo 2. I am not saying it will not sell well, it most definitely will. But GAFers, come to your senses, Pokemon Fire Red & Green Leaf could outsell it. NFS:UII, Burnout 3, Forza, etc. will be literally wiped by GT4's sales. They will "not" steal it's marketshare as many of you so assert.

It's called hype and it sells games. Halo 2, most likely, will be every bit worthy of that hype. The current installed bases of the consoles does not prevent a game on one of the lesser-popular systems from becoming the best-selling title that year. Less likely, sure. But not impossible.

I'm sorry, but other than RE4, I don't see another top-ten GC title on the horizon this year.

 

[jarrod]

It's called hype and it sells games. Halo 2, most likely, will be every bit worthy of that hype. The current installed bases of the consoles does not prevent a game on one of the lesser-popular systems from becoming the best-selling title that year. Less likely, sure. But not impossible.

I'm sorry, but other than RE4, I don't see another top-ten GC title on the horizon this year.

I agree with all that. Halo 2 just has this monstrous hype behind it. And it's not limited to the XBox audience, it's really permeated the entire industry.

RE4 is also really the only "top 10" possibilty for GameCube, but being totally fair, the same can be said for Halo 2 on XBox and Pokemon FR/LG on GBA. :/

 

[SolidSnakex]

Pokemon Fire Red & Green Leaf could outsell it. NFS:UII, Burnout 3, Forza, etc. will be literally wiped by GT4's sales. They will "not" steal it's marketshare as many of you so assert.

Agreed. People keep pointing out that GT hasn't had any competition. In 98 GT1 went up against and NFS Hot Pursuit. Take a guess who won? In 99 GT2 went up against Ridge Racer Type 4 and NFS High Stakes. Once again, guess who won? It's not just that GT won, they dominated those games in terms of sales it wasn't even close. Now what big racer did NFSU go up against last year on the PS2? Nothing. So why is it that GT's is going to have it's sales eaten by another game when it's consistantly beaten down that specific series in sales easily? GT's the one that's proven itself against competition despite what some think not NFS.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

RE4 is also really the only "top 10" possibilty for GameCube, but being totally fair, the same can be said for Halo 2 on XBox and Pokemon FR/LG on GBA. :/

Agreed.

 

[AniHawk]

RE4 is also really the only "top 10" possibilty for GameCube, but being totally fair, the same can be said for Halo 2 on XBox and Pokemon FR/LG on GBA. :/

I'd say MP2E is. RE just doesn't have the fanbase on the system Metroid does.

 

[Hero]

I dunno, if Capcom handles the RE4 advertisement well I can see it doing better than MP2. If Resident Evil: Apocalypse comes out on DVD and they throw the trailer on there (or even before the movie in the theaters) and gets the press really hyped up on it, it's guarenteed to sell well. I think the reason why RE:0 didn't do as well as REbirth was because it came out a relatively short time after REbirth and the graphics weren't improved as much.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't think you can really base RE's sales on the previous ones anymore. Just watching the trailer it doesn't even really look like survival horror anymore, it looks more like a straight forward action game with a horror setting. So with that it has a much better chance of being a bigger success than either REMake or RE0 because it'll have much more mass appeal in terms of gameplay.

 

[AniHawk]

I dunno, if Capcom handles the RE4 advertisement well I can see it doing better than MP2. If Resident Evil: Apocalypse comes out on DVD and they throw the trailer on there (or even before the movie in the theaters) and gets the press really hyped up on it, it's guarenteed to sell well. I think the reason why RE:0 didn't do as well as REbirth was because it came out a relatively short time after REbirth and the graphics weren't improved as much.

I don't know. I just doubt the game's ability to do as well. It's also M rated, but on the wrong system to be M rated, you know.

 

[Insertia]

Are you kidding? Sony doesn't bundle games with PS2 to help the hardware sales, it simply doesn't need it. Hell, back in the first half of 2001 it was still hard to actually buy a PS2 they were so in demand...

They don't have to bundle games with PS2 to push sales, and thats what makes them #1.

Besides, people weren't getting GT3 free with the bundle. The bundle was $330, which I'm sure covered the cost of the game.

Mario 64 certinaly saw more revenue come from it's initial 11 million than GT3 has. And Mario 64 has passed 12 million so far...

Besides, GT3's made closer to 50% of it's sales at budget pricing. And it's only on one platform unlike GTA3/VC (which likely would've managed higher sales if they were completely exclusive).

Can't believe that without some actual proof...
I'm pretty sure Mario64 pulled in 40-50% of it's sales while on Players Choice.

Sorry, GT just can't hold a candle to the Pokemon empire. Seriously, try again.)

No where did I compare Pokemon's 'empire' to GT's. I doubt GT will ever have the rabid kid fanbase of Pokemon.

But, GT is one of the few games with outside appeal.

Mario Kart and NFS come close currently. They haven't surpassed GT but both put up huge numbers and will likely continue to do so....

Mario Kart has dropped tremendosly since it's earlier releases. I only see it going downhill.
NFS on the other hand isn't close to GT.
NFS is a very casual game while GT has a more hardcore fanbase.

Funny, that's exactly how I feel about Gran Turismo. I sometimes wonder if the mindless casuals tire through the mind numbing mechanics and boring tracks only to build the funds to eventually use their dream car. In a game.

To each their own. And if you think GT's tracks are boring, you won't enjoy any semi-realistic racer (arcade or not). Maybe you mean its sense of speed?

Er, you sure you've played Pokemon? The base collection/battle/social elements have had a huge effect on the industry at large, not even just RPGs. Hell, GT is considered "the Pokemon" of racers...

Unfortunetly, yes I have played it, and no, I haven't noticed it's collection elements having any influence on the industry. I kind of doubt GT's large selection of cars has anything to do with Pokemon.

I bet I can list more Pokemon clones. Wanna try?

go for it.

 

[AniHawk]

Can't believe that without some actual proof...
I'm pretty sure Mario64 pulled in 40-50% of it's sales while on Players Choice.

Even so, that's at $40, and not $20. And that would mean it pulled in about 50-60% at $60.

(I'm sorry, I'll be quiet now)

 

[Insertia]

With the price of N64 carts, Nintendo didn't have the luxury to make their Players Choice games any cheaper then $40.

 

[AniHawk]

With the price of N64 carts, Nintendo didn't have the luxury to make their Players Choice games any cheaper then $40.

That's probably why jarrod said revenue.

(Okay, so I lied)

 

[Insertia]

Actually no, Madden also seems to build sales with each release. Oh yeah, it also has that magical EA branding.

Well, when you release a popular title yearly based off of America's most popular sport you can go no where else but up.

But that wasn't my point.

When I say GT is the Madden of racing games, I mean no other racing game can put a dent in it's armor. If I had a dollar for everytime someone said 'X' racing game would be a GT killer...

Much like Madden, GT sells regardless of the competition.

And it hasn't grown either.

Is there room for growth? When each installment is selling more, or close to 10 million copies, what does it matter?

 

[jarrod]

They don't have to bundle games with PS2 to push sales, and thats what makes them #1.

Besides, people weren't getting GT3 free with the bundle. The bundle was $330, which I'm sure covered the cost of the game.

Er, yes? Also, wasn't the GT3 bundle the only way to get a PS2 for a month or two?

Can't believe that without some actual proof...
I'm pretty sure Mario64 pulled in 40-50% of it's sales while on Players Choice.

You can't believe it... but for Mario 64 (the most important release last gen outside Pokemon) it's believable? May I ask why?

GT3 sold about a million units in the US it's first month iirc, 1.2 million in Japan and 120k it's first week in the UK I think. GT3 has consistantly been in top 10 PS2 lists here since it's GH rerelease though, really until mid/late 2003... it's hard to nail down solid specifics though, someone with NPD totals could do it by dollar amount.

Still breaking sales down by region (1.5 million in Japan according to MC, 3.5 million in the US according to NPD) and it's sorta hard to figure out how Sony's accounting for that 11 million total in the first place? Canada, Korea & PAL regions managed 6 million units between them?

No where did I compare Pokemon's 'empire' to GT's. I doubt GT will ever have the rabid kid fanbase of Pokemon.
But, GT is one of the few games with outside appeal.

Actually I'd say GT's appeal is derived from existing outside appeal (licenses). That's really the opposite of Pokemon or GTA.

Mario Kart has dropped tremendosly since it's earlier releases. I only see it going downhill.

Well it's fate is really tied to it's hardware, as are all games really. Mario Kart on GBA managed 5+ million though, I wonder if GT4mini will achieve that?

NFS on the other hand isn't close to GT.
NFS is a very casual game while GT has a more hardcore fanbase.

Heh... GT's about as casual as they come. Every series has it's hardcore segment but I'm doubting GT's a special case compared to other popular racers... this is a game for casual audiences mainly (as are NFS & Mario Kart).

To each their own. And if you think GT's tracks are boring, you won't enjoy any semi-realistic racer (arcade or not). Maybe you mean its sense of speed?

Well, mechanics moreso. I grew up on Daytona & Ridge Racer... I've always felt something to be desired in GT's actual play (and yes found most tracks are plaijn boring as well). Care to go into depth on why Pokemon is so terrible/awful or do you just dislike RPGs in general?

Unfortunetly, yes I have played it, and no, I haven't noticed it's collection elements having any influence on the industry. I kind of doubt GT's large selection of cars has anything to do with Pokemon.

Well, I figured it was pretty clear. Post Pokemon, nearly every genre's seen some level of increased focus on collection in some form.

go for it.

You first. Let's hear the endless list of GT clones (myself, I can only think of like 4-5), then I'll retort.

 

[jarrod]

Well, when you release a popular title yearly based off of America's most popular sport you can go no where else but up.

Tell that to Sega. :/

When I say GT is the Madden of racing games, I mean no other racing game can put a dent in it's armor. If I had a dollar for everytime someone said 'X' racing game would be a GT killer...

Much like Madden, GT sells regardless of the competition.

I'd agree with that generally, though I'd also say Madden has had much more serious competition so far. Hopefully Konami and Microsoft can change that...

Is there room for growth? When each installment is selling more, or close to 10 million copies, what does it matter?

With a 70+ million installed base, I'd sure hope so...

 

[ravingloon]

That Allard (?) interview posted a couple of days ago pretty much confirmed it (along with the fact 16:9 high def. would be standard). If I'm also reading the hints correctly and an ID and Bioware game are at launch (or close), plus Perfect Dark and Moto GP 3, that'll be a good enough launch for me to buy.

 

[Spike]

For the people who believe that GT4 will lose sales because of the other racing games being released at roughly the same time, we've been through this all before. I remember back in February, there was a certain member who was going around saying that True Crime: Streets of LA would eventually outsell the GTA series. As I explained to that poster at the time, GTA has the brand name power, True Crime did not. The same applies to the GT series.

Why does GT sell? Because it offers a realistic driving experience to people who otherwise might not be able to afford the cars in real life. That's why GT will always outsell, by a large margin, any other racing games.

 

[={<SMOKE>}=]

i'm surprised to see that people are expecting re4 to outdo mp2:e this holiday. i would like to see re4 do well, but i won't be surprised if mp2:e outsells it. i'm just not sure that there's a huge audience for re4 on the cube. to be honest, i'm not sure that too many people even care about the re franchise anymore. i guess we'll see...

this holiday is going to be awesome though. there's probably a good ten games (at least) that i'll be picking up and every one of them promises to be incredible. hopefully i have the cash...

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I'd say MP2E is. RE just doesn't have the fanbase on the system Metroid does.

I think that the only reason that MP2E might sell better than RE4 is the inclusion of a multiplayer mode. Still, I'd only really expect one or the other to be in the top ten, but certainly not both.

 

[gofreak]

I'll admit to not having read this entire thread, but I just wanted to say that I think a late 2005 launch for Xbox2 is more than possible. IF this is to happen, though, Microsoft will have to make some sort of announcement in Jan/Feb. Get a good Xbox Christmas out of the way first, of course, but pretty much immediately afterward they'll have to start talking Xbox2. I'd say they're willing to let the coming holidays be Xbox's last as their flagship box.


A late 2005 launch means that some publishers would have been working on games for 2 years, or longer in some cases (I'd say Rare have been putting aside games for Xbox 2 from the beginning, and really just need to scale them up technically for the platform). That's prob enough time to get a decent launch lineup ready, especially if the platform is easy to develop for (and it should be, reasonably).

Of course, there are many pitfalls to an early launch. It'd be a gutsy move. But it would be possible, imo.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well, I wouldn't doubt that all the heavy hitters (Bungie, Rare, etc.) for MS got their early dev kits first. I don't think there'd be too much in the way of scaled up XBOX 1 projects.

 

[gofreak]

Well, I wouldn't doubt that all the heavy hitters (Bungie, Rare, etc.) for MS got their early dev kits first. I don't think there'd be too much in the way of scaled up XBOX 1 projects.

Knowing the likes of Rare, and how long they take on projects, their initial releases may be "beefed up" Xbox1 projects. But , for example, the PD0 team may well have been working on cutting edge PC hardware for some time now, to keep closing the gap until final Xbox2 hardware is available, so they wouldn't be so much Xbox1 projects anymore. Not that you'll necessarily notice, unless Xbox2 is going in a fundamentally different direction than that which Xbox1 layed out, in terms of how games are played etc.

However, a late 2005 launch is still relatively soon. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some xbox1 games, announced or unannounced, get shifted to xbox2 with a technical upgrade. No one expects the first generation to have the hardware firing on all cylinders. As long as there is an appreciable leap, it'll be OK.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

This fall there are too many racers and FPS on the market,Halo 2 and GT4 will be suffering,although Halo 2 less because as FPS is more "unique" then racing games:
NFSU2,Juiced,SRS,Burnout 3,Outrun 2,Forza,Midnight Club 3,Enthusia,CrashNBurn and new Test Drive when GT3 shipped the market was pretty empty.

 

[gunstarhero]

The only reason I doubt this news is the lack of any news about Halo 3 (unless I missed it). Microsoft would be absolutely retarded if they launched a new console without Halo 3.

That's like Nintendo releasing a new console without a new Mario...oooh, wait...

 

[gofreak]

The only reason I doubt this news is the lack of any news about Halo 3 (unless I missed it). Microsoft would be absolutely retarded if they launched a new console without Halo 3.

That's like Nintendo releasing a new console without a new Mario...oooh, wait...

It can happen, and they can shoulder it if they have something like PD0 to bridge the gap. Though it will certainly carry less brand awareness than a Halo game. If they want Halo3 at launch, I imagine they'll have to wait till 2003. Unless Bungie has a second team that has been secretly working on Halo3 in parallel with 2 for Xbox2 launch...it's possibly, especially if it's more of a "spin-off" type game. Microsoft has talked before of a Halo "universe" that can accomodate different types of game..

 

[open_mouth_]

Xbox 2 Potential Launch:

PGR3
Perfect Dark 0
Dead or Alive or Killer Instinct
EA Sports
New Crimson Skies
Unreal game
Bethesda RPG
GTA Killer

with announcements for... Halo 3, another Halo-based game, Ninja Gaiden 2, Jade Empire 2, Knights of Old Republic III, Forza II, and a new Banjo.

Those should be more than enough to keep current Xbox owners happy early on next-gen.

 

[Bog]

There's a distinct lack of the word "Xdude" in this thread.

 

[sprsk]

i think this is probably accurate due to the fact that not many new games were shown at e3. perhaps next year will indeed be the year of the x-dudes (official name of the xbox2)

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I'd say MP2E is. RE just doesn't have the fanbase on the system Metroid does.

Cough. Madness. Pass me whatever you're smoking.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Japanese developer Game Republic, which is headed up by former Capcom director Yoshiki Okamoto, has presented a project to Microsoft Japan - and hopes to be given a green light to develop the new title shortly.

News of the meeting came through Okamoto's own website, where he informed readers through his diary that Game Republic had made a presentation to Microsoft, but did not enter into any detail about the new project.

However, he did say that "Game Republic has confidence" with regards to the outcome of its negotiations with Microsoft, and that the company will be filing some patents with regard to the project in question.

....

Game Republic now has three studios - in Nagoya, Osaka, and Tokyo, with the latter studio known to be working on a new title for an as yet unannounced platform. It certainly seems possible that this could be an Xbox title - or, perhaps more likely given the timing, an Xbox 2 title.

www.gamesindustry.biz

edited for relevance.

 

[jarrod]

Weird... especially as Okamoto was vocally against Capcom throwing any support towards XBox. What happened to his SCEI deal? Are they going with MGS instead of or in addition to?

 

[Lord Error]

maybe not in raw power, but via smart tools and better development enviroment, anything should be able to keep up with PS3.

I know that sounds nice in theiry, but the last and only time the difficult hardware and poor toolkit has prevented hardware from showing it's 'true' power for a long while - was with Saturn. Even the PS2 with all it's initial devkit kinks got taped heavily within it's first year of life with game like MGS2, GT3, BGDA, (and even at launch, somewhat, with Tekken Tag). Also, with all the reasoning that MS was 'making developer software for ten years', I never heard too many praises for their devkits over what Nintendo offered for the Gamecube, and they are not exactly known as a tools software company either. Tools software is a big deal, no doubt, but I don't think it's *that* big of a deal to make an inferior hardware looks on par with something clearly more capable (note that I'm not saying PS3 or N5 will be more capable as it's very uncertain at this point). It especially doesn't matter as much for big companies who have their own ways of dealing with development process, and those big companies are the ones who make big budget, 'important' games anyways.

 

[Prine]

Thanks for the news MightyHedgehog. Wonder why he chose Xbox

 

[SolidSnakex]

This fall there are too many racers and FPS on the market,Halo 2 and GT4 will be suffering,although Halo 2 less because as FPS is more "unique" then racing games:
NFSU2,Juiced,SRS,Burnout 3,Outrun 2,Forza,Midnight Club 3,Enthusia,CrashNBurn and new Test Drive when GT3 shipped the market was pretty empty.

As I pointed out earlier, GT's already went up with 2 of the biggest racing titles in the same year (NFS and Ridge Racer) and completely smacked them around. So I don't really see how any of those games are going to suddenly start hurting GT's sales. It's very obvious that it's fanbase and the general racing fanbase aren't the same. It pulls in different people.

And on a sidenote. Test Drive? Are you serious?

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

As I pointed out earlier, GT's already went up with 2 of the biggest racing titles in the same year (NFS and Ridge Racer) and completely smacked them around. So I don't really see how any of those games are going to suddenly start hurting GT's sales. It's very obvious that it's fanbase and the general racing fanbase aren't the same. It pulls in different people.

And on a sidenote. Test Drive? Are you serious?

96 PS2 TEST DRIVE 647,806

Plus XB ver sold another 200K i think.

I know consumers are stupid.

 

[SolidSnakex]

96 PS2 TEST DRIVE 647,806

Plus XB ver sold another 200K i think.

I know consumers are stupid.

Gran Turismo 3 - 3,457,047

There was also a Test Drive released the same year as GT3. I'm going to take a guess and say it's sales didn't look like GT3's either.

 

[Fallopian Tube]

Don't know if this has been posted but the reason why Xbox 2 won't be called Xbox 2 is...

The tentatively codenamed "Xbox 2," set to receive a name revision before its release because Microsoft doesn't want consumers to assume it's inferior to PlayStation 3 based on end numerals

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

Gran Turismo 3 - 3,457,047

There was also a Test Drive released the same year as GT3. I'm going to take a guess and say it's sales didn't look like GT3's either.

Huuuuuuuuh? I am not saying those games will outsell GT4,i say they will eat into its sales,and bite hard,the one that sold 650K shipped spring 2002

 

[open_mouth_]

Don't know if this has been posted but the reason why Xbox 2 won't be called Xbox 2 is...

Exactly. That's why it'll probably be called Xbox Next or XBN for short.

 

[SolidSnakex]

But what proof do you have that they will? I've posted proof that GT had consistantly beat big name racing series easily in terms of sales. Yet no one has been able to post proof of any of those games eating into GT's sales at any signficant rate.

 

[ravingloon]

Xbox 2 Potential Launch:

PGR3
Perfect Dark 0
Dead or Alive or Killer Instinct
EA Sports
New Crimson Skies
Unreal game
Bethesda RPG
GTA Killer

with announcements for... Halo 3, another Halo-based game, Ninja Gaiden 2, Jade Empire 2, Knights of Old Republic III, Forza II, and a new Banjo.

Those should be more than enough to keep current Xbox owners happy early on next-gen.

"I don't think you'll see a lot of BioWare games [on Xbox 1] once the next generation of Xbox comes out, a lot of BioWare stuff or a lot of id stuff coming out on the old system. The world-class developers will obviously want to hop on board really soon. There'll be a landing path like that." J Allard

I don't believe this were thrown out there randomly. Bioware at launch/close is a very real possiblility. And isn't id's next game supposed to be an original franchise? Something tells me that inclusion wasn't random either.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

But what proof do you have that they will? I've posted proof that GT had consistantly beat big name racing series easily in terms of sales. Yet no one has been able to post proof of any of those games eating into GT's sales at any signficant rate. Just seems like a bunch of weak speculation.

Therer has never been so many games released,it beat just a few games and they were released not in a one month range from GT3 release,at least from what i rememember.

NFS:HS2 shipped on 10/1/2002
GT3 shipped on 7/9/2001
Ridge Racer on 10/25/2000

gamespot data

 

[jarrod]

But what proof do you have that they will? I've posted proof that GT had consistantly beat big name racing series easily in terms of sales. Yet no one has been able to post proof of any of those games eating into GT's sales at any signficant rate.

Actually you haven't posted any conclusive data yourself, you've only repeated the same line that GT4 is unstoppable and the glut of other racers this fall will simply cannibalize each other's sales and leave GT's casual market be. :/

 

[SolidSnakex]

Therer has never been so many games released,it beat just a few games and they were released not in a one month range from GT3 release,at least from what i rememember.

NFS:HS2 shipped on 10/1/2002
GT3 shipped on 7/9/2001
Ridge Racer on 10/25/2000

gamespot data

You do know that there were GT's, RR's and NFS before those games right? Those are what i'm referring too. GT1 had NFS Hot Pursuit 1 released in the same year, GT2 had NFS High Stakes and RRT4 released in the same year and neither GT had any problem outselling the competition by a very significant margin.

GT doesn't have the same racing fanbase as alot of other racers. Just as people own PS2's for Madden, there are alot of people who own it for GT (as you can tell by GT boards). I guess it'll have to once again row over a bunch of other racing games that never could compete with it for it to suddenly gain the respect that it's already earned from most people. Then again I get hte feeling that some will never respect its selling power and when GT4 outsells all those games by a significant margin like it's always done with competition, people will doubt it when GT5 is released against another NFS or Ridge Racer or Burnout.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

You do know that there were GT's, RR's and NFS before those games right? Those are what i'm referring too. GT1 had NFS Hot Pursuit 1 released in the same year, GT2 had NFS High Stakes and RRT4 released in the same year and neither GT had any problem outselling the competition by a very significant margin.

GT doesn't have the same racing fanbase as alot of other racers. Just as people own PS2's for Madden, there are alot of people who own it for GT (as you can tell by GT boards). I guess it'll have to once again row over a bunch of other racing games that never could compete with it for it to suddenly gain the respect that it's already earned from most people.

PSX was a completely different age,do you even believe yourself what you are arguing about?You cant compare PSX time to now,the market is very different now.

You say same year,but we are talking same quarter or even month.

 

[SolidSnakex]

PSX was a completely different age,do you even believe yourself what you are arguing about?You cant compare PSX time to now,the market is very different now.

You say same year,but we are talking same quarter or even month.

Well you're arguing that a bunch of unproven racers (with the exception of NFS) are going to bite into GT's sales at a signficaint rate. I'd be much more inclined to see if you really believe that.

And whether the comparison works now or not, that's the only actual basis you can go on right now as to how other racers have an effect on GT's sales. And as you can tell, they don't.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

Well you're arguing that a bunch of unproven racers (with the exception of NFS) are going to bite into GT's sales at a signficaint rate. I'd be much more inclined to see if you really believe that.

And whether the comparison works now or not, that's the only actual basis you can go on right now as to how other racers have an effect on GT's sales. And as you can tell, they don't.

Since this discusion is pointless,December NPD sheet will show the truth.

 

[CrisKre]

Are we guessing wither GT4 will be huge or not? I mean, just look at Prologue in Japan. It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to assume GT4 will sell mad.