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[Makai]

Last gen saw a lot of experimentation with incorporating RPG elements into other genres, most successfully with first person shooters. The emergence of profitable free to play games may not have been possible without the monetization of level-up systems.

This gen may be heading down the same road, but with roguelike elements, which have already been popularized by game such as Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, FTL and Don't Starve. There are a lot of cool combinations already and more are around the corner, too. Deep Down is a roguelike take on Demon Souls. Galak-Z and No Man's Sky are space shooter roguelikes. There's even an upcoming puzzle rogue-like:

Who knows? Maybe room escape roguelike is destined to become the dominant genre of interactive media.

 

[FriedConsole]

Roguelike means nothing now.

You might as well as tell me a game is very orangelike.

 

[KarmaCow]

What roguelike elements are in No Man's Sky and Galak-Z other than randomized layouts?

edit: I wouldn't even call your video close to a roguelike, it just has procedural elements.

 

[Servbot24]

I still don't know what rogue-like means... as far as I can tell it's randomized dungeon-crawling.

Randomized level designs are one of the worst trends in gaming imo.

 

[SerodD]

What do you know about No Man's Sky that the rest of us don't?

 

[sixghost]

I still don't know what rogue-like means... as far as I can tell it's randomized dungeon-crawling.

Randomized level designs are one of the worst trends in gaming imo.

It used to mean something very specific, but in the last 3 years it's broadened out to mean some combination of procedurally generated levels and permadeath.

 

[Raptomex]

NetHack, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Dungeonmans! are rogue-likes. A lot of the games nowadays seem to just have rogue-like or "rogue" elements or simply randomized elements which is cool too. I enjoy them.

 

[LingeringRegime]

NetHack, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Dungeonmans! are rogue-likes. A lot of the games nowadays seem to just have rogue-like or "rogue" elements or simply randomized elements which is cool too. I enjoy them.

I downloaded ToME a few months ago and I love it. I probably play it more than any game I have on Steam.

 

[Abinash117]

I still don't know what rogue-like means... as far as I can tell it's randomized dungeon-crawling.

Randomized level designs are one of the worst trends in gaming imo.

http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

http://indiestatik.com/2013/03/08/roguelike-primer/

I see it getting more popular in mainstream games , but in procedural generated enemies , loot , and a bit of levels.

 

[KarmaCow]

I still don't know what rogue-like means... as far as I can tell it's randomized dungeon-crawling.

Randomized level designs are one of the worst trends in gaming imo.

I'd say there are three important elements.

1) Procedurally generated levels so that each playthrough isn't about memorization of specific layouts but learning the mechanics to adapt to the situation.
2) Permadeath or very little permanence between sessions. The only (significant) progression gate should be knowledge about the mechanics and rules of the game.
3) Items/upgrades given out randomly that can shape the playthrough so that each session can be unique. There has to be growth within each session.

All three are necessary and are needed to make the others work.

Turn based movement and traditional RPG growth mechanics are part of the real roguelike definition but if we're talking about how developers plan on integrating it other genres, I think it's fine if those are left out.

 

[Volodja]

Even if I've liked many games that used the definition improperly, I am still kinda annoyed at how I can't use the term roguelike to know what I'm gonna get out of a game anymore because everything "is like a roguelike" without actually playing anything like it.

 

[tmarg]

I think most of the new "rogue-likes" are actually inspired by the original Spelunky, which is fine, but the term doesn't really apply anymore.

 

[Easy_D]

NetHack, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Dungeonmans! are rogue-likes. A lot of the games nowadays seem to just have rogue-like or "rogue" elements or simply randomized elements which is cool too. I enjoy them.

You forgot Dungeons of Dredmor for a great entry level roguelike (oozing with charm too)

 

[Syril]

I'd say there are three important elements.

1) Procedurally generated levels so that each playthrough isn't about memorization of specific layouts but learning the mechanics to adapt to the situation.
2) Permadeath or very little permanence between sessions. The only (significant) progression gate should be knowledge about the mechanics and rules of the game.
3) Items/upgrades given out randomly that can shape the playthrough so that each session can be unique. There has to be growth within each session.

All three are necessary and are needed to make the others work.

Turn based movement and traditional RPG growth mechanics are part of the real roguelike definition but if we're talking about how developers plan on integrating it other genres, I think it's fine if those are left out.

This is also known as classic arcade design.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Last gen saw a lot of experimentation with incorporating RPG elements into other genres, most successfully with first person shooters. The emergence of profitable free to play games may not have been possible without the monetization of level-up systems.

This gen may be heading down the same road, but with roguelike elements, which have already been popularized by game such as Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, FTL and Don't Starve. There are a lot of cool combinations already and more are around the corner, too. Deep Down is a roguelike take on Demon Souls. Galak-Z and No Man's Sky are space shooter roguelikes. There's even an upcoming puzzle rogue-like:

Who knows? Maybe room escape roguelike is destined to become the dominant genre of interactive media.

Is there any gameplay footage of Deep Down? For some reason I figure it will be more like Warframe - i.e. a third-person action game with randomized levels and MMO-style, free-to-play progression (and in no way a roguelike).

As to the thread topic, I think that what we're seeing is a trend towards procedural generation and the buzzwords emergent, dynamic, and unlimited, rather than a trend towards more roguelike/roguelite games being made.

I wonder how long it will take the term roguelike to devolve into something that can describe something like Volgarr the Viking - after all, you only have one life! It doesn't get more roguelike than that. :c

 

[KarmaCow]

This is also known as classic arcade design.

There are definitely aspects shared between the two but arcade games don't usually have heavily randomized layouts and different character growth specific to each session. You can still develop the optimized playthroughs of most arcade games that's not possible in roguelikes (in the same way at least). It's a different mindset which is why I'd say all three are important.

 

[Haunted]

Last gen saw a lot of experimentation with incorporating RPG elements into other genres, most successfully with first person shooters. The emergence of profitable free to play games may not have been possible without the monetization of level-up systems.

This gen may be heading down the same road, but with roguelike elements, which have already been popularized by game such as Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, FTL and Don't Starve. There are a lot of cool combinations already and more are around the corner, too. Deep Down is a roguelike take on Demon Souls. Galak-Z and No Man's Sky are space shooter roguelikes. There's even an upcoming puzzle rogue-like:

Who knows? Maybe room escape roguelike is destined to become the dominant genre of interactive media.

I think you're talking about randomly generated content, which is (sometimes) one of the features of a roguelike, but clearly not their sole defining characteristic. Let's be proper with the terms here now.

And yes, with the rise of smaller teams and the success of games with complex procedural generators (you forgot to mention Minecraft!), it's a growing trend. Hand-crafted level design has its merits, but it's really expensive to produce at the fidelity we've come to expect from today's games.


Btw, is that puzzle game from the makers of Triple Town? The assets look familiar.

 

[BigDug13]

I still don't know what rogue-like means... as far as I can tell it's randomized dungeon-crawling.

Randomized level designs are one of the worst trends in gaming imo.

I think Procedural generation has come a LONG way since the old days. I wouldn't call a game like Rogue Legacy or Spelunky a shitty game just because they use random procedural generation.

Also No Man's Sky isn't going to be randomized each time, they're going to do the procedural generation of the universe once and that's the universe everyone will explore. The size and scope of that universe will be so massive that it won't feel old and stale (at least that's the idea) and since everyone gets to explore the same universe, the stories and community and all of that can exist.

 

[Arttemis]

Procedurally generated worlds and enemies could be in every game and I'd be happier for it. If those games also have harsh death penalties/one life, I'm fine calling it a roguelike.

 

[kevm3]

Sweet rogue-like, Metroidvania inspired by dark souls, featuring an innovative new cover system

 

[Mozendo]

Deep Down is a roguelike take on Demon Souls. Galak-Z and No Man's Sky are space shooter roguelikes. There's even an upcoming puzzle rogue-like:

What?

I'm failing the any of the above games you mentioned are rougelikes or are influenced by them

Spoiler

or how Deep Down is a take on Demon Souls isn't it based on Dragon's Dogma

Rougelike is not a synonym randomly/procedurally generated games.

 

[Tain]

Roguelikes are a type of dungeon crawler that has a bit more in common with arcade games (due to the lack of permanence). What people tend to call "roguelike elements" are better attributed to arcade games (permanent failure all over, pre-1985 games using hella randomization).

 

[Raptomex]

I downloaded ToME a few months ago and I love it. I probably play it more than any game I have on Steam.

Yeah, it's great. I downloaded it a few months ago myself and I suck at it but it's fun.

You forgot Dungeons of Dredmor for a great entry level roguelike (oozing with charm too)

Yeah, great game. Those were just the ones I thought of off the top of my head.

I really encourage this newfound "randomization" in games. It adds replay value, a different experience each time, and they're fun. But when it comes to actual rogue-like games, I need to use a tileset. But they're amazing if you can get into them. Dwarf Fortress being my favorite. Idk if I'd call it a rogue-like more than it's inspired by them but it's so damn good.

 

[charlequin]

This is why I'm fond of "roguelite" as the keyword for stuff like BoI/FTL/etc. so "roguelike" can go back to its more proper meaning.

What people tend to call "roguelike elements" are better attributed to arcade games (permanent failure all over, pre-1985 games using hella randomization).

I don't see it at all. None of the major titles from the golden era were significantly randomized at all, nor did they generally have a concrete model of progression or fixed "endings."

I mean, it's true that playing Spelunky for leaderboard competition does hit some of the same elements that classic arcade games did, but the Rogue lineage of that game is direct and obvious.

 

[wildfire]

Games that incorporate roguelike elements are

A. Still harder than games of the same genre not mixed with roguelikes
B. Use randomly generated levels and items
C. Are controlled by a higher element of randomness that makes each replay semi-fresh.

I would like to take this moment to plug a really cool FPS-roguelike

Music sucks but it has a lot of nifty ideas you don't see in any FPS. It is going to be updated with co-op soon.

 

[Tain]

I don't see it at all. None of the major titles from the golden era were significantly randomized at all, nor did they generally have a concrete model of progression or fixed "endings."

I mean, it's true that playing Spelunky for leaderboard competition does hit some of the same elements that classic arcade games did, but the Rogue lineage of that game is direct and obvious.

What would you call stuff like Robotron, Asteroids, and Berzerk if not randomized?

I'm not at all suggesting the experience of playing NetHack is similar to that of playing one of the above, though. I'm clumsily trying to say that "randomization" and "permadeath" are such widespread features (even in action games) that it doesn't make sense to me to look at Spelunky as some genre-bender instead of simply a platformer with randomized levels.

 

[elektrixx]

Please, no roguelikes. It's just an excuse for a cheap dev to omit a saving mechanic.

 

[HiddenWings]

This thread's complete mangling of terminology aside, I think this is the first time I've ever seen the name of Tales of Maj'Eyal, a game I've known about (but never looked into) for quite some time. I've always just seen ToME, I never knew what it stood for.

 

[charlequin]

What would you call stuff like Robotron, Asteroids, and Berzerk if not randomized?

I don't think Asteroids is randomized in any significant or interesting way and I don't think the two entries in the abortive robot-escape-simulator genre are really all that representative of classic arcadegames as a whole.

I'm clumsily trying to say that "randomization" and "permadeath" are such widespread features (even in action games) that it doesn't make sense to me to look at Spelunky as some genre-bender instead of simply a platformer with randomized levels.

There are so few significant platform games with random levels, though. And the creators of the primary instigators for this trend -- Binding of Isaac and Spelunky -- both specifically point to Nethack and the roguelike genre as the inspiration for the randomization element.

 

[Makai]

What would you call stuff like Robotron, Asteroids, and Berzerk if not randomized?

Endless runners also have randomization and permadeath. Your goal is to get a high score, but in roguelikes (or at least the contemporary definition) there is a definite end of the game. Instead of getting a high score, your goal is to reach a definite end. Your player increases in power as the game progresses, but this is reset upon death, so you must rely on your ever-developing skill to defeat the game.

 

[flowsnake]

I would like to take this moment to plug a really cool FPS-roguelike

Music sucks but it has a lot of nifty ideas you don't see in any FPS. It is going to be updated with co-op soon.

What's the game called? Don't go into marketing.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

I don't think Asteroids is randomized in any significant or interesting way and I don't think the two entries in the abortive robot-escape-simulator genre are really all that representative of classic arcadegames as a whole.



There are so few significant platform games with random levels, though. And the creators of the primary instigators for this trend -- Binding of Isaac and Spelunky -- both specifically point to Nethack and the roguelike genre as the inspiration for the randomization element.

I am so happy you said this.