Twitch: Changes To Audio In VODS

GreyMatter said:
Yeah, about that.

http://www.twitch.tv/rocksmithgame/b/550805072

I just found out the devs do these streams about the work they did charting the songs and how they play, etc. Except I guess we're not allowed to watch them later if we make the cardinal sin of missing the live broadcast.

I'd never had much reason to go to Twitch until I found that out, and then that happened. Can't say I'll be frequenting the place.
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Listen, dude, the professional developers at Ubisoft who licensed these songs are just snotty teens who want to make money with things they don't own.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
What abuse?
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Peaches talked about it in his hitbox stream. I'm sure others have old stories to tell as well. But many actually don't like what happened today and even made Cosmo consider looking to other streaming services. He even stated he hadn't thought about leaving Twitch since 2010.

I also remember that whole drama fest with that mod Horror and all those bannings.

Cosmo may try out hitbox soon, he already made an account and talked in Peaches chat.

AdamAK is currently still talking in Grav's chat on hitbox. He also plans to try out hitbox. Adam was outraged that his GTA speed runs were mutedt.

I'm sure there's many more.
 
Nanashrew said:
Peaches talked about it in his hitbox stream. I'm sure others have old stories to tell as well. But many actually don't like what happened today and even made Cosmo consider looking to other streaming services. He even stated he hadn't thought about leaving Twitch since 2010.

I also remember that whole drama fest with that mod Horror and all those bannings.

Cosmo may try out hitbox soon, he already made an account and talked in Peaches chat.

AdamAK is currently still talking in Grav's chat on hitbox. He also plans to try out hitbox. Adam was outraged that his GTA speed runs were mutedt.

I'm sure there's many more.
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Uuuuh... what examples of abuse? That mod thing is community driven. Most twitch "admins" aren't paid.

I don't know those people, so I don't know if they were using non-game audio.
 
7DollarHagane said:
It's just like the youtube copywright strike issues - all kinds of incidental audio, sound effects, and background music that is "copyrighted" by whatever institution that created it and licensed it to naughty dog.

Here's what I wonder about - why don't videogame publishers have some workaround where when they license all the sound they license the right to stream it on behalf of their customers?

It can't be that hard for some lawyers to draw up.
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Presumably an increase in costs. I guess you could write it up without much difficulty, but when you're licensing the works you'd tend to license it for a specific thing - if you then wanted unlimited reproduction for online videos, you could bet they'd want a bigger chunk of money. Easier if you do full buyout on audio used or create it all yourself and you can own it and say whatever I guess.

--

I've been expecting this to happen for a while, the whole rights for streaming felt like a ticking timebomb. Rightly or wrongly, just based on the current copyright situation. But impressed how ham-fisted this is, badly done and without proper suitability for people who have actually licensed rights for video purposes or to challenge. Impressively bad application.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
Uuuuh... what examples of abuse? That mod thing is community driven. Most twitch "admins" aren't paid.

I don't know those people, so I don't know if they were using non-game audio.
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All in game audio. There are some links even in this thread where there were no music in segments that were muted like TLOU streams. One person was even singing Summer Breeze on stream and muted. Not playing music, singing. It's crazy, really.

And I realize that many mods and admins are community driven. Didn't help that they needed a full on backlash from the community before they did anything about it. After, many bannings of top speed runners I might add. Some streamers even banned when answering a question civilly when someone in chat asked the streamer a question about what was going on. It kept getting worse where some community driven mods of Twitch talking with community driven mods at Reddit, preventing discussion and locking any and all threads as if nothing was happening over at Reddit.

Until finally a person from Twitch who does actually work there finally gave a public apology over Reddit.

That's one example that I remember going down just recently. I haven't been in the community for long but that was one crazy and wild ride.
 
Audibe Magic has a PDF describing why you should put your music on their service, and the biggest takeaways seem to be that
  1. they pull in content from other similar services, meaning if you registered your work on Consolidated Independent or Finetunes it may be in their system too
  2. apparently anyone can to go their My Rights View page and register a song
On a side note, their My Rights View page should theoretically allow you to see if some songs have been registered and potentially by whom, so maybe people should go there and try to upload some of those songs where the developers said they didn't know why Audible were taking videos down.
 
this is obviously not gonna sink twitch or anything but i think its good for there to be some competition in the market and hopefully that competition will have some impact on twitch's decision making in the future. i think its completely reasonable for people to switch if they dont like the direction twitch is headed at the moment, as thats the only way to really communicate dissatisfaction to them. i also think hitbox is a really cool alternative that would suit a lot of people perfectly fine.


no idea why sunshine is so defensive. maybe he just wanted to be a contrarian and start some shit?
 
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Nanashrew said:
All in game audio. There are some links even in this thread where there were no music in segments that were muted like TLOU streams. One person was even singing Summer Breeze on stream and muted. Not playing music, singing. It's crazy, really.

And I realize that many mods and admins are community driven. Didn't help that they needed a full on backlash from the community before they did anything about it. After, many bannings of top speed runners I might add. Some streamers even banned when answering a question civilly when someone in chat asked the streamer a question about what was going on. It kept getting worse where some community driven mods of Twitch talking with community driven mods at Reddit, preventing discussion and locking any and all threads as if nothing was happening over at Reddit.

Until finally a person from Twitch who does actually work there finally gave a public apology over Reddit.

That's one example that I remember going down just recently. I haven't been in the community for long but that was one crazy and wild ride.
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If it's ingame music, then the broadcaster can file a counter-notification whatever that's on their blog instruction. Whatever tech Twitch is using will need to detect the stream content and match it with whatever the game has for music license. I think they're going to continue working on that when there are more complaints, but the audio isn't deleted, so it can be fixed.

And the last drama that I remembered on twitch was a homosexual admin banning anyone who made fun of his furry emote. Then another twitch admin tried to hide this fact by telling reddit to delete some related posts. The CEO finally stepped it, kicked the two admins off, and apologized.

Hardly abuse on the Twitch end. It was dealt with properly. They just needed better hiring practices, I guess.
 
Sandfox said:
Did you not read the second part of the post?
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Realyn said:
No, which should be clear if you actually had read the second paragraph of my post. But well done buddy, well done.

If an artist wants his music protected I'm all for it. The side effects sucks.
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It is not about if it is part of a game soundtrack though, it is about if the fuckwited content matching system even had a right to the music it is flagging, game soundtrack or not.

Even if it could somehow detect if music is being used in the game being streamed, it will not help music that is from a soundtrack (but allowed to be played) outside the game (or one of what will be a large number of false detections of third party music that some artists allow for streamers to use).
 
Shining Sunshine said:
If it's ingame music, then the broadcaster can file a counter-notification whatever that's on their blog instruction. Whatever tech Twitch is using will need to detect the stream content and match it with whatever the game has for music license. I think they're going to continue working on that when there are more complaints, but the audio isn't deleted, so it can be fixed.

And the last drama that I remembered on twitch was a homosexual admin banning anyone who made fun of his furry emote. Then another twitch admin tried to hide this fact by telling reddit to delete some related posts. The CEO finally stepped it, kicked the two admins off, and apologized.

Hardly abuse on the Twitch end. It was dealt with properly. They just needed better hiring practices, I guess.
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That was the event. And the emote was originally from a pornographic image relating to their boyfriend, I believe? Many found it inappropriate and didn't like it.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
If it's ingame music, then the broadcaster can file a counter-notification whatever that's on their blog instruction. Whatever tech Twitch is using will need to detect the stream content and match it with whatever the game has for music license. I think they're going to continue working on that when there are more complaints, but the audio isn't deleted, so it can be fixed.

And the last drama that I remembered on twitch was a homosexual admin banning anyone who made fun of his furry emote. Then another twitch admin tried to hide this fact by telling reddit to delete some related posts. The CEO finally stepped it, kicked the two admins off, and apologized.

Hardly abuse on the Twitch end. It was dealt with properly. They just needed better hiring practices, I guess.
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you're assuming in-game music is going to be exempt
 
Has anyone considered getting some kind of broadcast license to play these songs on stream legally? Or are people still mad about having to obey laws that have always existed and are finally being enforced?
 
Kinda weird that all my ggpo mystery tourney archives get deleted soon as this news happens except 1 where we didn't play any music, even though it says that they only mute the audio if I skimmed right. Oh well it was a good run :(
 
BurnOutBrighter said:
Has anyone considered getting some kind of broadcast license to play these songs on stream legally? Or are people still mad about having to obey laws that have always existed and are finally being enforced?
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People are mad because it is false flagging shit, including in game music, blocks audio for 30 fucking minutes and does not tell you what song it thinks you are infringing!
So take your strawman and cram it!
 
I want to see Cosmo and Siglemic come out at a marathon and rip off their twitch.tv shirts to reveal their new hitbox.tv url's like they are the nWo or something.
 
BurnOutBrighter said:
Has anyone considered getting some kind of broadcast license to play these songs on stream legally? Or are people still mad about having to obey laws that have always existed and are finally being enforced?
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Good conversation to read https://twitter.com/Nash076/status/497163943866290178

Nash is from RadioDeadAir part of the TGWTG.com

EDIT: TLDR version, he pays $2000 for a license to have music and even music videos in his live stream legally since some of it is part of his job but he still has to file counter claims because bots are utterly stupid. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 
I guess I'm done trying to save any kind of broadcast with music on Twitch or YouTube until they shoot themselves in the foot so many times they bleed out.
 
Mindwipe said:
So why didn't they licence the songs for use on Twitch then?
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Nanashrew said:
Good conversation to read https://twitter.com/Nash076/status/497163943866290178

Nash is from RadioDeadAir part of the TGWTG.com

EDIT: TLDR version, he pays $2000 for a license to have music and even music videos in his live stream legally since some of it is part of his job but he still has to file counter claims because bots are utterly stupid. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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TheD said:
They very well could have, it is just twitches approach of carpet bombing everything fucks them over.
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Twitch has never been about the users.
 
Just because I'm having some trouble getting one thing, maybe someone can explain it.

So, a video is uploaded that happened to have some music in the background, and then gets muted because of it. Okay.

Can anyone tell me how that helps the copyright holder in any way whatsoever? Like, they are doing it to protect them from what, exactly?

This seems a lot like that one asshole kid you knew growing up that would ask to play with a ball that you and some friends were playing with, and then he promptly throws it over a fence and runs away.

"No! It's my music and you can't have it!" *throws own music into a fire*
 
Themacabre said:
Just because I'm having some trouble getting one thing, maybe someone can explain it.

So, a video is uploaded that happened to have some music in the background, and then gets muted because of it. Okay.

Can anyone tell me how that helps the copyright holder in any way whatsoever? Like, they are doing it to protect them from what, exactly?

This seems a lot like that one asshole kid you knew growing up that would ask to play with a ball that you and some friends were playing with, and then he promptly throws it over a fence and runs away.

"No! It's my music and you can't have it!" *throws own music into a fire*
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You don't fire up a Twitch VOD when you want to listen to some groovy tunes?
 
Themacabre said:
Just because I'm having some trouble getting one thing, maybe someone can explain it.

So, a video is uploaded that happened to have some music in the background, and then gets muted because of it. Okay.

Can anyone tell me how that helps the copyright holder in any way whatsoever? Like, they are doing it to protect them from what, exactly?

This seems a lot like that one asshole kid you knew growing up that would ask to play with a ball that you and some friends were playing with, and then he promptly throws it over a fence and runs away.

"No! It's my music and you can't have it!" *throws own music into a fire*
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It's not that it makes any sense, it's that legally they're obligated to do this. The real shitty part of this is that copyright law is fucking garbage.
 
Themacabre said:
Just because I'm having some trouble getting one thing, maybe someone can explain it.

So, a video is uploaded that happened to have some music in the background, and then gets muted because of it. Okay.

Can anyone tell me how that helps the copyright holder in any way whatsoever? Like, they are doing it to protect them from what, exactly?
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its so you pay them a license to use the music, like radio stations. it protects a potential revenue stream for the copyright holder.
i gotta wonder though, if a radio broadcast license even covers video-game music.
 
Odrion said:
What separates this from Youtube is that

1.) Unlike when Youtube was bought, Twitch's foundation is a pile of rotten garbage.

2.) Twitch is ruled and watched by nerds. If your favorite speed runner is moving their stream over to Hitbox.tv or wherever, you're following them. The streaming community aren't a bunch of moms uploading cat videos. They're tech aware and their presence exists OUTSIDE of Twitch.

so uh, yeah, google just wasted a billion dollars. weird!
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Google have absolutely no interest in the billion dollars doing anything other than removing Twitch as a competitor to YouTube, so if it dies it's trebles all round there still.
 
I wonder if these changes (2 hours, no eternal archives, contend ID) are things Twitch is having forced on them and has decided to release in one volley right before their AMA to make it the dominant point of discussion so they can go "look Google, everyone hates this shit, you've just ruined your $1billion pie."

Randdalf said:
Is it possible to remove music from a recording by subtracting its waveform, or by some more complex operation?
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The results are usually pretty messy plus that uses up like CPU etc. Muting is easier and more effective deterrent.
 
Mindwipe said:
Google have absolutely no interest in the billion dollars doing anything other than removing Twitch as a competitor to YouTube, so if it dies it's trebles all round there still.
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How are these even seen as competing services? I regularly see streamers upload their VODs to Youtube (sans muting to boot) for archiving and as a secondary revenue stream.
 
LiQuid! said:
How are these even seen as competing services? I regularly see streamers upload their VODs to Youtube (sans muting to boot) for archiving and as a secondary revenue stream.
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It's a successful online video service, and was expanding in archive streams at the same time YouTube wants to move more into live streaming. They were quickly going to end up as direct competitors.
 
Yup, started streaming on Twitch only a couple months ago and my one and only highlight is completely muted due to Windows Media Player running my usual playlist. I even list the artist and song in the fucking video!

http://www.twitch.tv/icemarker/c/4764175

This. is. stupid. Copyright laws NEED to change to help entertainment mediums reach a better compromise between creators and users.
 
Exactly how is Twitch going to distinct unlicensed music to licensed music? Should there be a disclaimer at the beginning of the track by the artist 'I am Darude and I approve of UserX playing Sandstorm in this video with ID 45GB223XC"?
 
neorej said:
Exactly how is Twitch going to distinct unlicensed music to licensed music? Should there be a disclaimer at the beginning of the track by the artist 'I am Darude and I approve of UserX playing Sandstorm in this video with ID 45GB223XC"?
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Hold on let me contact Smash Mouth really quick and ask if I can have their music playing in the background on media player while laugh at how bad I beat this Priest on Hearthstone. I'm sure they'll get back to me real quick with a bunch of legal talk to which I can contact Twitch and get my appeal in, it'll only take like 2 months. Fair use in the broad term of art does not exist, right? All hail the "guilty until proven innocent" policy!
Not that I get any views anyways.

Sigh. Guess I'll have to find a way to play music on media player without it being picked up by OBS when I record or stream.
 
Finally looking through my friends Twitch where we'd all hangout and so far everything seems to work right. Nothing muted and all Nintendo games mostly. Though I can't seem to get the Jet Set Radio Future highlight to work though, same for one of the Katamari Damacy highlight videos and Katamari Damacy is like the most awesome one that just kept escalating into laughter.


Could just be me though. No idea. Twitch is saying "can't find this video" and stuff. Hope it is just me.

EDIT: Can't get the Pikmin 2 epilogue of the Submerged Castle to work either. Hmmm.
 
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