Icyflamez96
Member
The whole Finn naming scene and crash reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD9Av8U8Ouk&feature=youtu.be&t=2m53s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD9Av8U8Ouk&feature=youtu.be&t=2m53s
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
AlphaStriker
Member
His Y-chromosome is proof enough!
I was thinking about the weird 'being able to see planets half a galaxy away in the sky bigger than the moon' thing when the Republic gets wiped out.
Didn't JJ pull exactly the same shit with (Star Trek '09 spoilers I guess)
?
Does he just not get how planets work or something?
Didn't JJ pull exactly the same shit with (Star Trek '09 spoilers I guess)
Old Spock watching Vulcan get destroyed
Does he just not get how planets work or something?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
But you can't quite draw an exact comparison...
A New Hope actually mention he's pilot at various points throughout the entire movie, which sets the expectation, and so when he flys at the climax of the movie, the audience is pretty well primed for it.
Force Awaken's "I can fly" *30 seconds later* combat barrel-roll, which happens at the beginning of the movie, isn't exactly the same build up experience for the audience. Ultimately it still works, but A New Hope gives the audience more time to soak it up.
I still say a country hick saying he's as capable as military pilots because he used a star ship to shoot roadkill when he was bored in his backwater village and taking it seriously is stupid however you cut it.
heliosRAzi
Banned
With the stuff that Rey was pulling off, she's a better pilot than Luke.
Maybe it's maybelline
He just changed his shampoo.
ANH explains a couple times in some throwaway lines of exposition that Luke is a pilot that routinely makes shots said to be impossible for a computer to make, then shows us he's a pilot in the climactic action scene where he uses the Force to do something impossible (and you as the viewer would realize the reason he is already good at making impossible shots is also because of his latent Force ability). TFA introduces us to Rey as a pilot in her first action sequence, where she does a fancy bit of flying which is the movie first telegraphing she has the Force, then spends every single other scene of her in the Falcon providing evidence and explanation that she is in fact a pilot, before finally confirming that she does in fact have power in the Force, which solidifies why she could pull sick drift moves in the Falcon earlier.
It's essentially the same reasoning for Luke being a pilot and pulling off fancy shit, only the inverse (show then explain), and done much more through actual example and character action and demonstration, rather than simple lines of exposition justifying it.
I just put it down as movie technology being so much further ahead than it was in 1977.
All of the gripes I had coming out of my first viewing of TFA totally evaporated after I really paid attention during my second viewing. A lot of the complaints I'm seeing all over the place really are just; "if you pay attention...you'll realise why".
Silphonica
Banned
To be fair, I almost cried twice in tfa and im not one for crying at movies. And to be really honest, I don't even know fully why I wanted to cry, but I had watery eyes.
Union Carbine
Member
I could spend the rest of my life scavenging airplane parts and never learn to be a pilot. I'm also pretty sure that being an airplane mechanic doesn't make that person a pilot either. All that said, Rey being ace pilot didn't bother me too much.
Jest Chillin
Member
As far as I remember.. Luke mentions being a pilot once on Tatooine when Han is giving them a hard time about the job... and once again just before the mission. Other than the fact that it took longer before they actually showed Luke piloting... there isn't anything else that I can think of that actually showed the audience that he could fly until he's piloting an X-Wing through a narrow canyon under fire and outflying both Empire and Rebel veterans.
So there really isn't any "build up." It's still just dialogue in both cases.
A user named GONZALEZ posted this... Is that your real name? Do you even Pica Fresa bro?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Totally agree, but "A New Hope" spends slightly more time and effort to try and narratively justify it, whereas the Force Awakens doesn't really have the time for that kind of setup.
We:
- see him playing with his toy T16,
- using a speeder,
- then he mentions to Han "I'm not such a bad pilot myself",
- shooting down a TIE fighter on the Falcon after escaping from the Death Star (not exactly the same as demonstrating piloting skills)
And that's all it takes for the Rebels to accept him as an X-Wing pilot. Which is OK, it's Star Wars, the Force and the Rebels are desperate for any recruits. Then Biggs backs him up as "the best push pilot in the Outer Rim", and Luke saying that he used to shoot wamp rats.
With Rey, we get:
- Her exploring a Star Destroyer,
- Using a speeder,
- Watching a ship fly away,
- Playing with a toy Rebel pilot and using a Rebel helmet,
- Being a hell of a lot more resourceful than Luke, living as a scavenger,
- Saying "we already got [a pilot]" and hinting to herself as one,
- THEN, she flies the Falcon, confirming afterwards that she has flown, just not into space
I'm not primed on making less of Luke's character in A New Hope, we don't need to do that. But there are just as many hints of Rey's skills as Luke's. Perhaps not in the same order or build up, but definitely not done in a way that should warrant so many sceptics to make less of her character.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Okay. You're also not a superhero, either.
So I mean, the thread's gotten kinda obtuse the last few pages.
Jest Chillin
Member
Yeah I can't agree that they try to justify it at all. Luke mentions it twice and the first time he's completely ignored by Obi Wan as if Obi Wan doesn't believe him to be a capable enough pilot. The second time it just gets backed up by Wedge in dialogue. There's really nothing significant there that backs up Luke's claims.
In TFA, Rey says she's a pilot, then she pilots the Falcon. The only real difference is the amount of time that passes between a character saying they can fly and them actually flying.
Lifejumper
Member
So the blu ray is supposed to come in april? Isnt that faster than usual? Also rian johnson has good taste in gaming : https://mobile.twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/683394971374731264
prag16
Banned
Only the last few?
When can we burn this one to the ground and start over with thread 4?? (And undoubtedly do this all over again... whenever new people who have just seen the film drop in it all goes around again and again... and it doesn't help that a handful of the same posters keep feeding the fire, beating the same drums every few pages...)
Some of this discussion... I mean.... not enough Nathan Fillion speechless gifs in the world...
But in the Star Wars Universe, piloting a speeder and a ship are much more akin to driving cars. In fact, that is the point of using very car-like soundeffects for ships, a direct result of George Lucas' love for cars (See: American Graffiti and the podracing scene).
And mechanics, yunk-yard dealers ARE some of the best drivers in the real-world. In the Star Wars universe, flying technology is much more advanced and simpler than using aerodynamics to make an airplane liftoff.
And besides, scavenging isn't the only thing Rey did. We know she did a lot more than that.
Just to mention it, since it's canon (even though nobody will care since it wasn't taken into account in 1977), the new young adult adaptation of ANH called The Princess, the Scoundrel, and the Farm Boy has a scene in which after Luke volunteers for the Alliance they make him take a flight sim test to practice flying with an X-Wing. It's a test set up in which you will inevitably die not to see if you are actually good but to test your resilience and attitude, and Luke crushes the previous record (held by Wedge) easily without realizing that he's doing it. The scene takes place while Leia and the other higher ups are reviewing the Death Star schematics.
But that's how he gets to practice with X-Wing flight controls.
But that's how he gets to practice with X-Wing flight controls.
Yes, but if they don't tell us these things then how do we know its true!?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh yeah, I loved that part in the new novel. Love that it's cannon.
At the same time, the TFA novelization also give a lot more background and insight on Rey and how she knows how to pilot.
Union Carbine
Member
As I said, I didn't mind it. My biggest issue from that part is the dude leaves light speed capable starships laying around without so much as installing a club on it.
I totally forgot about that. Whenever I think of the dramas I think more about Leia for some reason.
Well, in that case it's been an idea for a while!
I thought it was the young Rey crying out after first being left on Jakku.
Jest Chillin
Member
I love it. It's like.. in TFA they tend to show rather than tell.. so people complain that they weren't told outright in dialogue. Yet in the PT, many people criticize how much of the background is discussed in dialogue but not shown (such as Anakin and Obi Wan's relationship having been formed through a bunch of crazy missions).
It just goes to show you that when people want to pick at a movie, they'll find a way.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
IIRC, It was her as a kid, being abandoned by her parents.
Ah well that's a little less interesting. Makes sense she hears it after Finn tells her he's leaving.
I'm Cuban-American, and I enjoy the smooth taste of this...A user named GONZALEZ posted this... Is that your real name? Do you even Pica Fresa bro?
I don't shop at common places like Sedano's, and Navarro.
Was she even an ace pilot? She almost crashed the Falcon like 5 times. I got the feeling she was mostly just competent at flying, and Poe was the exceptional pilot.
Oh man, I've been thinking this so much when people are like "How did Finn and Poe/Rey become such good friends so quickly?" and flashing vividly back to that god damn elevator ride in AOTC where they're literally all "Hey, remember all those fun things we did off screen in between films and how we are buddies now?" and people complaining that we never actually saw Anakin and Obi Wan becoming buddies and doing buddy stuff. Then TFA actually shows us the moments the characters become friends, by doing awesome Star Wars shit together, where stressful and extraordinary events push them together and force them into situations where they need to work together, have each other's backs and make it out alive because they worked as a team, thereby creating the bond between them.
Character relationships built through action! It's what these exact types of films are supposed to do!
heliosRAzi
Banned
At the beginning, it felt like she was getting her bearings. After that, she was being an ace pilot. Probably as good as Poe.
There's probably some merit to the earlier theory that Poe was meant to escape Jakku with Rey and Finn.
User 73706
Banned
OOH, OOH- OHHH, MY BOOOONES, AND SKIN, AND ORGANS
Union Carbine
Member
It's a pretty common movie trope-- the hero struggles with X for the first thirty seconds and then afterwards proceeds to use it like an expert. Look at what she did after those struggles-- shaking off TIE fighters, barrel-rolling, piloting through a downed Star Destroyer and then putting it into free fall to set up Finn for that kill shot-- yeah, I'd say she was an ace pilot.
Absolutely. It's the same reason why people have such a hard on for mad max
Somebody mentioned this but it's funny how people are up in arms about this particular case when Luke got into an X-Wing and Ani got into a Naboo fighter like it was no problem.
She was a decent pilot whose latent Force abilities kicked in when she was put into a stressful situation, which allowed her to do some fancy shit she had never done before and didn't even realize she was capable of. Insignificant nobody realizing they can be somebody and are capable of great things.
QuantumZebra
Member
Its ok because he has a Y chromosome.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Anyone else have an issue with Ren? For someone so mentally soft I don't see how he rose up the ranks. Flipping his shit and slicing through computer systems with a light saber every time something went wrong?
Don't get me wrong, I liked the concept of him struggling between the dark and light side, but find it strange that with all that baggage he has become some upper level First Order dude.
And lol at trying to convince us that he was the genetic product of Solo and Leia. I did like act his acting though and I guess that's more important than looking the part.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the concept of him struggling between the dark and light side, but find it strange that with all that baggage he has become some upper level First Order dude.
And lol at trying to convince us that he was the genetic product of Solo and Leia. I did like act his acting though and I guess that's more important than looking the part.
Union Carbine
Member
Like I said, I don't really have a problem with it but Luke did very little in that X-Wing besides hit the big shot which he did with the force. Maybe I'm forgetting some of his maneuvers before his trench run but I don't remember him doing much and if Solo hadn't shown up when he did, Luke wouldn't have even made it that far. Other than The Shot (tm), Luke didn't do anything comparable to what Rey did. Luke also may have had time to get some orientation on the ship before he flew it-- Rey just ran into the Falcon and went on the fly. It's not quite the same.
The Librarian
Banned
Yup. A couple of scenes after escaping on the Falcon, Snoke asks Ren if there has been an awakening.
(People don't watch movies anymore).
All I have to say is.....poor Chewie. 
I don't know what happened to the rest of the Knights or what their abilities were, but as it stands he's the only Force user there, which puts his power levels in the First Order at the top. In addition, he's apparently the Supreme Leader's apprentice of sorts. I don't think it's odd at all he'd be high ranking in the Order.
I don't know what happened to the rest of the Knights or what their abilities were, but as it stands he's the only Force user there, which puts his power levels in the First Order at the top. In addition, he's apparently the Supreme Leader's apprentice of sorts. I don't think it's odd at all he'd be high ranking in the Order.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Yes. That is exactly the reason. The shape of the chromosomes.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Well if we're going to get nerdy, Obi-Wan mentions Anakin was a Jedi and a pilot, and Luke is a pretty good pilot too.
Luke's flying a combat aircraft is a major suspension of disbelief regardless of how you look at it, but ultimately the movie uses him flying an X-Wing/blowing up the Deathstar as both the climax of the movie and of Luke's arc. The mentions of him being a pilot/good pilot, the drone training scene showing he's "special", the Obi-Wan force pep-talks, and all the various other monomyth checkpoints, pays off with him flying at the end.
Rey nearly starts the movie flying the Falcon through a Super Star Destroyer, there isn't remotely same level of build-up. Does it need that same build-up to justify, or be the climax of the movie? Absolutely not. But if we are going to speculate why Luke's flying might be more accepted by some people, my point is it comes at the end of the movie after slightly more build-up, aka the audience hand was being held a bit more.
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