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[therealbigrich]

Microsoft really should leave pc gamers alone. We dont need your "dedication to pc gaming"...

I've been feeling that way. Why even try Imo unless it's as good or better than any option out there

 

[JaseC]

Does the Windows Store offer refunds to anyone who bought the PC version of Quantum Break and is having technical issues? The way I understand it, you have to go through support and that's not always a guaranteed refund...

You're actually warned when checking out that refunds are not provided, but I've not read of anyone on here being denied a refund for a Win10 game and I would assume this window of opportunity is still open given the state of QB.

 

[SunBroDave]

Microsoft really should leave pc gamers alone. We dont need your "dedication to pc gaming"...

I will never underatand why some people feel the need to defend this company that for years, their only contributions to the PC gaming ecosystem have been harmful.

 

[Zojirushi]

I've been feeling that way. Why even try Imo unless it's as good or better than any option out there

Because I think I'll take bad PC ports of otherwise console exclusive games that are at least possibly fixable over no PC ports.

 

[marthurstewart]

Because I think I'll take bad PC ports of otherwise console exclusive games that are at least possibly fixable over no PC ports.

I agree. The glass half full perspective is the right perspective here.

 

[Nokterian]

To think Microsoft had 11 years time and still it shows they do not know what the hell they're doing.

 

[TheSeks]

Because I think I'll take bad PC ports of otherwise console exclusive games that are at least possibly fixable over no PC ports.

Except UWP doesn't let you fix things, so uh...

 

[OnionPowder]

To think Microsoft had 11 years time and still it shows they do not know what the hell they're doing.

don't worry it's just growing pains surely they'll iron it out in no time so just buy everything they put out pls and thank you.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Maybe MS want to show what UWA can do like "hey remedy, let's try port QB within a month to prove writing in UWA is very efficient."

I know a lot of people like to quickly point fingers, but I don't think that's the case here. Honestly, we can all talk and act as we know, but we really don't know anything as to what went on.

In any event, if anyone ends up getting hurt it would be MS. If UWP/UWA's games keep getting released in these states, they are just gonna shoot themselves in the foot by losing a lot of potential sales that are otherwise good games generally speaking. It's better from them to just let the platform develop more before releasing more games on it (if the platform itself is to blame because is specific limitations) or just release the games as win32 or not at all.

 

[therealbigrich]

Because I think I'll take bad PC ports of otherwise console exclusive games that are at least possibly fixable over no PC ports.

I probably would too especially given I have the choice of just getting the game on x1 and that being fine.. I honestly probably would be fine with how QB runs but seeing the hate MS from the majority it just doesn't make sense to try to do and only satisfy a few

 

[SunBroDave]

I know a lot of people like to quickly point fingers, but I don't think that's the case here. Honestly, we can all talk and act as we know, but we really don't know anything as to what went on.

In any event, if anyone ends up getting hurt it would be MS. If UWP/UWA's games keep getting released in these states, they are just gonna shoot themselves in the foot by losing a lot of potential sales that are otherwise good games generally speaking. It's better from them to just let the platform develop more before releasing more games on it (if the platform itself is to blame because is specific limitations) or just release the games as win32 or not at all.

"Quickly point fingers"? MS has been putting out hamstrung UWP games for months now.

 

[dgrdsv]

Nah, they're quite aware of their current position. There's a reason why they've put all of their stuff on iOS and Android and started to embrace Linux a lot more. That's also the reason they purchased Xamarin, taking something that used to cost thousands of dollars for a license, and made it free for everyone as part of Visual Studio. They want developers to create apps for any platform, using only Windows. Their plan at the moment is to get developers to write UWP apps for all Windows 10 devices and then use Xamarin to take that UWP code and make it work across iOS and Android. They know they can't get developers to only developer for UWP.

Again, that's what they want, not what market wants. That's exactly what I was saying - MS is living in a dream world where they can force the market to use whatever they see fit because there are no other alternatives. This world has ended ten years ago.

For a large number of applications, there's no difference beyond security, portability, and (ms hopes) visibility. I'm not sure why that's funny, these ARE desirable characteristics for a development platform. For many developers, who don't need the system access that win32 provides, don't need or want their users to modify their programs, or who are also developing for non-windows platforms, it's simply a new standard that could help them reach a large audience.

Outside of a few specific types of applications, now that distribution is known to be open, there really aren't many reason NOT to use UWP for Windows applications, especially if you'd like to also move that application to other devices.

That's funny because Win32 security is perfectly ok without any UWP sandboxes. PC has always been a platform which traded some security for openness and closing down on the latter because of a presumed lack of the former just illustrates how badly MS understand the market it is living on. This isn't a benefit for the majority of Win32/Windows users.

As for larger audiences - I'm struggling to understand what are we talking about here? What are these larger audiences which have access to UWP outside of Win10 PC crowd? XBO? So MS is proposing to sell some Adobe CC to XBO users or what?

As I've said, the whole idea is incredibly stupid.

 

[Zojirushi]

Except UWP doesn't let you fix things, so uh...

By fixable I meant the developers themselves (as it should be) and not modders.

I agree UWP restrictions don't help in a situation like this but they hardly seem to be the core of the problem here. I know too little about game development though so I could be wrong of course. However blaming all things bad about this port on UWP sounds a little too easy.

 

[michaelius]

Microsoft really should leave pc gamers alone. We dont need your "dedication to pc gaming"...

Yep I always get more scared when they say they care about pc game then when they are openly hostile against it.

 

[therealbigrich]

Has every UWP game been that bad though? Haven't heard any bad from KI, Tomb raider seemed like a decent port while QB and Gears have been bad ports that are playable while not being up to most standards.

 

[robotrock]

So how do you get the game to render in native 1080p?

 

[BlazinAm]

Is there a way to measure frametimes for end users that is not Fraps? Kinda curious.

 

[SunBroDave]

So how do you get the game to render in native 1080p?

You have to use Nvidia DSR.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

"Quickly point fingers"? MS has been putting out hamstrung UWP games for months now.

There are many other instances outside UWP where this happens. I'm speaking in general and by no means defending them.

 

[Armaros]

There are many other instances outside UWP where this happens. I'm speaking in general and by no means defending them.

Almost none of the games from major developers are close to the problems of the currently released UWP games baring Arkham Knight.

 

[nynt9]

There are many other instances outside UWP where this happens. I'm speaking in general and by no means defending them.

The developers have explicitly named UWP as the source of most of these problems.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Almost none of the games from major developers are close to the problems of the currently released UWP games baring Arkham Knight.

I wasn't even talking about just only games in my previous post, it's just an observation I noticed in general. In any event, carry on.

The developers have explicitly named UWP as the source of most of these problems.

Interesting, are there other devs outside of Remedy who have stated so as well? Just curious.

 

[aeolist]

Has every UWP game been that bad though? Haven't heard any bad from KI, Tomb raider seemed like a decent port while QB and Gears have been bad ports that are playable while not being up to most standards.

KI is tied to the screen refresh rate. if you have a screen that shows more than 60Hz you have to cap it at 60 otherwise it runs way too fast, also some early 4k screens are 30Hz and cannot play the game at all.

they put out a minecraft UWP port as well but nobody uses it because it doesn't support mods.

 

[Silent Hill]

I'll avoid this. Was not keen on buying from the Windows store to begin with.

Thanks for the thread.

 

[Maintenance]

Content.

Experience.

Continuum.

Entitlement.

Console gaming experience.

Backwards Compatibility.

"I'm optimistic about it."

"Wait until it matures."


This thread reads like a bingo

 

[Trup1aya]

That's funny because Win32 security is perfectly ok without any UWP sandboxes. PC has always been a platform which traded some security for openness and closing down on the latter because of a presumed lack of the former just illustrates how badly MS understand the market it is living on. This isn't a benefit for the majority of Win32/Windows users.

As for larger audiences - I'm struggling to understand what are we talking about here? What are these larger audiences which have access to UWP outside of Win10 PC crowd? XBO? So MS is proposing to sell some Adobe CC to XBO users or what?

As I've said, the whole idea is incredibly stupid.

How is win32 perfectly ok from a security standpoint?
Opening the wrong exe could be devastating.

When you say 'closing down' what exactly are you talking about? the missing graphical and peripheral features that are promised to be fixed as the OS matures? app distribution? By this summer, UWP apps will be distributed many the exact same means as Win32 apps. Modding? The majority of Win32/Windows users have 0 interest in modifying anything.... It's an issue, but That's a gaming centric issue.

After what we learned at Build, what about UWP makes it a closed platform?

Regarding larger audiences, the aim of UWP is to be the API of choice for not only Windows applications, but applications on competing platforms. Not just Xbox and PC.

 

[LordRaptor]

Interesting, are there other devs outside of Remedy who have stated so as well? Just curious.

I somehow doubt The Coalition as a first party studio are going to publically bad mouth their owners in any fashion.
Square Enix notably aren't making a UWA version of Hitman after RotTR though.

 

[GHG]

Um, no one is disputing that these limitations exist now, or arguing that they are good for paying customers.

The questions are 1) are these limitations an inherent reality due to the nature of UWP, And 2) will they be fixed.

We know for a FACT, that there is no technical reason why UWP can't support fixes to these limitations. And we also have confirmation from the platform holder that many of these limitations will be removed in an upcoming OS update. So 1) no. 2) yes , unless MS is lying and wants to keep UWP exactly as is forever.... Which is terrible unlikely.


With regards to Forza, no one argues that it's OK for it to lack peripheral support. Someone INCORRECTLY asserted that MS/turn 10 is charging for a game that doesn't have peripheral support. I corrected that assertion. Like many others in this thread, you chose to mischaracterize this correction as being apologetic to the lack of peripheral support. such behavior has common theme in UWP threads.

The fact that there is no wheel support at the launch of Apex isn't "telling" of anything, other than the fact that UWP can't currently support peripherals. To suggest that UWP will only support 1st party peripherals, is again, an assumption that you are making without any sort of up-to-date information on the matter.

Again, there is no technical reason why UWP couldn't support 3rd party peripherals, beyond the incomplete nature of the platform. But when it comes to 3rd parties, MS is trending toward an open and inclusive platform with open distribution, free xamarin, native Bash support, Bot Framework open to all platforms, cross-network Xbox live play etc. all signs point to MS actively working to remove limitations all over the place, so to suggest that they want to block out 3rd party peripherals, simply because UWP isn't currently ready, just doesn't make any sense, if you want to look at "telling" circumstances.

The problems are inherent due to the nature of UWP. It's been clear from the start that UWP is not a platform that was created with the intention of AAA games being one of the primary uses. Hence everything that has happened since Tomb Raider released on the Windows store has been reactive rather than proactive. They are scrambling around trying to fix problems that are quite ridiculous in the current age of PC gaming. So yes, let's call a spade a spade and say that a lot of the issues are due to UWP not being fit for purpose for PC gaming.

Microsoft are only changing things because their hand is being forced. If they really cared then things like Gsync and SLI support would have been present from the start before they embarked on the venture back into PC gaming. Hell, if they really cared they would have fixed things like vsync and Gsync immediately after Tomb Raider released. 3 months have passed between Tomb Raider and Quantum break releasing so they have had ample time to try and make an effort, get their shit together, fix a few things and give Quantum Break a chance but instead we have had nothing but words from these guys. Classic Microsoft.

But instead of calling them out on this let's praise them for stating their intentions to fix problems that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Oh, and we mustn't say bad things about them or the platform in the meantime, give them time, it's not finished. Well if it's not finished then why the fuck are you demanding £50 for shoddy ports released on the platform? This shit would struggle to even make it onto early access on steam.

Oh and by the way, I didn't make any assumptions about UWP only supporting 1st party peripherals. Read again if you care to.

 

[Akronis]

By fixable I meant the developers themselves (as it should be) and not modders.

I agree UWP restrictions don't help in a situation like this but they hardly seem to be the core of the problem here. I know too little about game development though so I could be wrong of course. However blaming all things bad about this port on UWP sounds a little too easy.

In a perfect world, sure. But there have been plenty of games that have been abandoned by devs and fixed by modders...

Instead, what we'd be left with, are unfixed games that remain abandoned and remain broken.

 

[nynt9]

I wasn't even talking about just only games in my previous post, it's just an observation I noticed in general. In any event, carry on.



Interesting, are there other devs outside of Remedy who have stated so as well? Just curious.

I mean, Phil Spencer himself has said that he is aware of these issues and talked about individual issues, so yes? The man in charge of it all has acknowledged it. Also Tim Sweeney - he's a developer but not one who has a current UWP game.

 

[w0s]

Have we gotten any public statement from remedy regarding the state of the game?

Or even a Phil Spencer tweet?

 

[L4nnist3r]

Rushed port?

 

[SneakyStephan]

Agreed. Microsoft had decades to perfect Win32 but now it's just legacy software. I'm sure they'll get UWP right in the next few years!



It's worse. And they said it couldn't be done!

You really need to mark sarcasm with /s, if not for your second quote I would have thought you were serious there with calling win32 legacy (because that's how ridiculous the arguments have become from the defenders)

Because I think I'll take bad PC ports of otherwise console exclusive games that are at least possibly fixable over no PC ports.

By fixable I meant the developers themselves (as it should be) and not modders.

I agree UWP restrictions don't help in a situation like this but they hardly seem to be the core of the problem here. I know too little about game development though so I could be wrong of course. However blaming all things bad about this port on UWP sounds a little too easy.

Idk what world you live in, but in the world I live in it's people like durante or mod communities who save 100x more games from awfulness or mediocrity than developers going back to do right by their customers.

And that's ignoring the immense benifit of modding (not fixing) to the pc community

In the real world there is no benifit, only tremendous cost.

One thing I do know, that is if QB wasn't an UWA app we would have known by now if that frame reconstruction thing could be disabled or not. Instead we are left to wonder if this game is fixable and will never know unless the publisher graciously throws some fixes over their walled garden walls.

How can you feel comfortable with being completely at the mercy of faceless companies who don't care about you if it doesn't help their bottom line.

QB is just the tip of the iceberg

 

[nynt9]

Have we gotten any public statement from remedy regarding the state of the game?

Or even a Phil Spencer tweet?

Remedy posted on their forums this slightly passive aggressive FAQ:

http://community.remedygames.com/forum/games/quantum-break/260554-quantum-break-windows-10-faq

Quantum Break Windows 10 FAQ

Does the game support overlay software for broadcasting/streaming, benchmarking or mods?
That's determined by UWP, and currently the platform doesn't support overlay software. Microsoft is aware of this and are working on improving UWP.

I'm receiving a "File IO Failulre" error notice and the game doesn't launch.
It's an issue caused by having a Unicode based user account. We're working on fixing it ASAP, will update this thread with the latest status.

Does Windows 10 support SLI or Crossfire?
Multiple GPU set-ups aren't currently supported by UWP / DirectX 12.

There's something wrong with my savegame.
Please make sure you're running the latest version of Windows 10. Older versions have a bug which might cause a savegame error when playing a game with multiple user accounts on the same PC. To be sure, switch your account before signing in to the Xbox app and launching the game.

How much bandwidth does the live action show streaming require?
The game includes 4 episodes of the live action show, each episode being approximately 25 minutes. Streaming these will be similar to streaming a half hour TV show on typical video streaming services.

My high-end AMD GPU doesn't run the game in 4K / Ultra.
Please check if you have the latest drivers installed. Having 8gb RAM is recommended for 4K/ultra settings.

The game looks grainy.
The film grain effect becomes heavy on some TVs when the sharpness setting is too high. Also check if the cloud save has picked up your Xbox One game version gamma/brightness settings and pumped up the PC settings simultaneously.

Jack looks like a pirate.
DRM might've accidentally triggered. Reboot the game and eat a lot of vitamin C.

The game doesn't fit on my hard drive.
Check that your game download / installation hard drive has enough space. The installation package is about 45 Gb, the live action show is streamed so you don't need to worry about fitting additional 75 Gb on your drive.

The game is taking forever to download.
Microsoft is working on this and trying to improve server caching.

The game runs slowly on my system which meets the minimum spec.
The game defaults to your screen resolution. Try lowering the resolution from the game's display settings.

Can I limit my framerate?
The game supports 60fps and the framerate is based on your system resources. Capping the framerate isn't supported.

Why is the PC version only on Windows 10 and sold only through the Windows Store?
The publisher decides where and on what platform to distribute the game.

How can I quit the game?
It's like Brokeback Mountain all over again... You can exit Quantum Break just like any Windows 10 application, move the mouse cursor to the upper right corner and the regular [X] should appear.

 

[IcyRhythms]

Have Remedy or MS said anything? Even so much as a "We know of the problems and we are working to fix things as soon as possible. We apologize to all those who have found the issues to be gamebreaking/an inconvenience"?

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Microsoft really should leave pc gamers alone. We dont need your "dedication to pc gaming"...

As a relatively new PC gamer (i.e. post-GFWL) I admit I let myself get a little excited about their apparent dedication. Lesson learned...

 

[JaggedSac]

I don't think this is the main issue here. Yeah, UWP wasn't really built for AAA games but the issue is wider than that - UWP wasn't really built for anything really but that strange dream MS had where every developer will suddenly forget about iOS, Android, Linux, OSX and will just use UWP to... what exactly? Code their programs once to put them on Win10 PCs and MS Surface (which is just a peculiar Win10 laptop really)? MS smartphones are dead so that's it? But how exactly is that helping them compared to just using the good old Win32 for the same purpose while still posting their software to Linux, OSX, Android, etc?

Actually, MS doesn't want you to forget about those other platforms. They made Xamarin free for everyone. They just want you to develop on a Windows box and use UWP as the base point, lol. They added bash to Windows as another step to getting folks to use Windows as their dev box.

 

[Crayon]

Content.

Experience.

Continuum.

Entitlement.

Console gaming experience.

Backwards Compatibility.

"I'm optimistic about it."

"Wait until it matures."


This thread reads like a bingo

"Ecosystem." It should be the middle square.

 

[Nokterian]

Remedy posted on their forums this slightly passive aggressive FAQ:

http://community.remedygames.com/forum/games/quantum-break/260554-quantum-break-windows-10-faq

That FAQ is...not so good.

 

[Grief.exe]

Saul got banned for astroturfing I assume.

I had sent him over to Bish in investigate, citing his inexplicable posts here and his circumspect posting history.

 

[Delusibeta]

Can you really count this as an advantage for UWP?

It's trivial to write a Win32 application which doesn't store its settings in the registry.

Basically the only reason any games writes stuff to the registry is that's the default location for game saves in Unity engine games.

 

[w0s]

Have Remedy or MS said anything? Even so much as a "We know of the problems and we are working to fix things as soon as possible. We apologize to all those who have found the issues to be gamebreaking/an inconvenience"?

Would be nice but it seems like it is more try troubleshooting then we have a problem and we are aware. Kinda bullshit. Oh well the code is taking forever to send so this game will wait until after ds3 at this point. Hopefully by then my 980ti can handle it. HAHAHAHAHA

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Remedy posted on their forums this slightly passive aggressive FAQ:

http://community.remedygames.com/forum/games/quantum-break/260554-quantum-break-windows-10-faq

How the mighty have fallen.

 

[GHG]

Saul got banned for astroturfing I assume.

I had sent him over to Bish in investigate, citing his inexplicable posts here and his circumspect posting history.

That's sad to see.

I was hoping he could tell us more about the future of backwards compatibility on the PC.

 

[Invert]

Yeah i know. I have fraps but that doesn't work. I can guess because the cutscenes run at 30 and when it switches to gameplay its quite jarring. Definite boost in fidelity. Gotta love UWP. I can tell because it runs very smoothly with the frame rate unlocked. What's really weird is when I lock it to 30 fps it runs horribly. Stutters like crazy, isn't that supposed to make the game run better?

IDK, all my settings are on ultra or high but I have a very powerful PC and I'm only running at 1080p! I can't go any higher because there's no fucking higher resolution in the settings!


With all of these issues they should definitely have a REFUND option for people. But it's MS.

What resolution do you have set in your display settings? If it's set at 1080p the game will only allow you to select up to that. If you bump your resolution up to 4k in your display settings it becomes available in the game. Also, you can try to use shadowplay in the Geforce experience to check your FPS. After it updated it doesnt quite work for me but maybe it's just something with my rig

 

[Akronis]

Saul got banned for astroturfing I assume.

I had sent him over to Bish in investigate, citing his inexplicable posts here and his circumspect posting history.

Good. That shit doesn't belong here and just hurts discussion.

 

[Zojirushi]

You really need to mark sarcasm with /s, if not for your second quote I would have thought you were serious there with calling win32 legacy (because that's how ridiculous the arguments have become from the defenders)




Idk what world you live in, but in the world I live in it's people like durante or mod communities who save 100x more games from awfulness or mediocrity than developers going back to do right by their customers.

And that's ignoring the immense benifit of modding (not fixing) to the pc community

In the real world there is no benifit, only tremendous cost.

You're obviously having Durante's big wins and communities like nexus in mind here which is all fine and awesome but in the world I live in there are THOUSANDS of games being released every year that are getting patched and fixed and updated by their developers so let's not be crazy here.

Also drop the condescending act.

 

[cakely]

How is win32 perfectly ok from a security standpoint?
Opening the wrong exe could be devastating.

Yeah it could be a phishing tool that will capture your passwords as you're typing them into Chrome.

 

[JaggedSac]

Can you really count this as an advantage for UWP?

It's trivial to write a Win32 application which doesn't store its settings in the registry.

Well, yes. Just because devs can doesn't mean devs will. Much like gamers wanting modding to fix things devs goof up with games, except in this case, it isn't frame pacing that is screwed, it is your registry or possibly file system.

 

[Maintenance]

Saul got banned for astroturfing I assume.

I had sent him over to Bish in investigate, citing his inexplicable posts here and his circumspect posting history.

Finally.

"Ecosystem." It should be the middle square.

Good one.