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[scalman]

yes because noone needed this game, they just thought they need remake with old outdated animations , movement and controls. i knew from first trailer i dont need this . Shame so much time wasted on this , when they could be making new game or new IP instead.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Comparing the Dreamcast to the WiiU? Nintendo pulled out on the WiiU because it was a flop. Sega pulled out on the Dreamcast because they literally had no money left. It wasn't the Dreamcast flopping. It's pretty simple to understand really. Why are you glossing over that fact?

And why exactly SEGA had no money left? Because of dumb decisions starting from the very launch of the Saturn and imminent stoppage of game development for it to fully focus on Dreamcast because third party developers left the console over a year ago. Dreamcast had very early success but 5 months later PS2 arrived and the rest is history.

They got out of the HW business because 2 consoles in a row they couldn't generate enough money and besides Playstation, Microsoft entered with trillions in their pocket. SEGA saying they are out of HW business meant they wont be developing any more future consoles. Had nothing to do with current production of the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast literally had those 6 months and after that it went downhill forever until they completely folded.

Therefore, the Dreamcast was the final nail in the coffin and a flop. If it wasnt a flop, SEGA would have had money. They just realized they got beat by everyone.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

What sort of sales numbers did they expect, most of the core audience had already purchased it

 

[Randall365]

Because they jump and scream and clap and cry like children over just about every game announcement so everything they do can be turned into some gif. I fucking LOVE video games, but c'mon dude.

It’s faked too - if the game was immediately just released and they are booting it up, I might get it - kind like your team scoring a goal - but imagine someone telling that your team were going to score a goal... in 18 months and having that reaction.

 

[Klart]

yes because noone needed this game, they just thought they need remake with old outdated animations , movement and controls. i knew from first trailer i dont need this . Shame so much time wasted on this , when they could be making new game or new IP instead.

No, they could not have been making a new game or new IP instead. Because almost no other game could have generated this kind of public funding by its fans.

 

[ajim]

This is really sad, but it depends on expectations vs budget etc

 

[Panajev2001a]

It’s faked too - if the game was immediately just released and they are booting it up, I might get it - kind like your team scoring a goal - but imagine someone telling that your team were going to score a goal... in 18 months and having that reaction.

Not faked, I think it was genuine... nobody was expecting Shenmue III, nobody was expecting it at that event... I was doing the same when I saw the background going dark, some flower petals falling, and heard the music. Sorry for others who are more cold hearted jaded gamers .

Back when I was living in the U.S. and the way to get Shenmue II (easiest way and best version) was Xbox... that was it, had to buy an Xbox, no other discussion needed.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

From everything I saw, it barely looked any better than the originals, and had zero gameplay enhancements.

I get that you have fans, and you want to make a game that plays the same as the old ones, but there are ways to update stuff and keep it faithful.

I was never a fan of the originals, to be honest. But I don’t like to see passion die, and I know that this has lots of fans.

 

[deriks]

In a world after Yakuza, Shenmue is dated as shit

Was a novel to me having this, but the truth is that the game feels old as shit

 

[Panajev2001a]

From everything I saw, it barely looked any better than the originals

Oh c’mon, there is no need to embellish the truth like this. Is this the best looking game of 2019? No, is it barely better looking than the Dreamcast version? No way, it is miles ahead.

 

[ROMhack]

The situation with Shenmue III reminds me Dreamfall Chapters. I played that and it was okay but didn't really see how it would appeal to non-fans because it was pretty much focused on expanding the story.

 

[Fat Frog]

In a world after Yakuza, Shenmue is dated as shit

Was a novel to me having this, but the truth is that the game feels old as shit

Even if Yakuza 7 became very distinct from Shenmue and if I wouldn't use your words, I admit Nagoshi's franchise is a real problem.

I remember a time when otaku friends where fascinated by Shenmue's japan, the graphics, 18 years old Nozomi...
Now, several of them prefer Yakuza because the setting is still in Japan, Kiryu has more charisma than Ryo, the formula has improved with top notch arcade games like VF5 FS and they don't care of teenage girls like Nozomi anymore.

A part of old Shenmue fans still find the game appealing (honest game by a honest director) but indeed the shiny, classy, enjoyable Yakuza experience is hurting Shenmue pretty bad :/

 

[Miles708]

Replies in this thread are, for the most part, really depressing.

In a world after Yakuza, Shenmue is dated as shit

Was a novel to me having this, but the truth is that the game feels old as shit

I love Yakuza but I think, to this day, that it's still behind Shenmue in several areas. And that's OK, since they focus on different things, still Shenmue lets you "poke" in its world and interact with his people in a way that is still not matched today. Its various systems are, also, much better integrated in the "world logic", where maybe in Yakuza many minigames feel like, actually, minigames.
Again, I adore Yakuza (playing it since PS2 days) but I think it's not a coincidence if the best and most "well-rounded" Yakuza is Yakuza 6, coincidentally the one that comes as close as possible to the Shenmue formula, atmosphere and design.

 

[Business]

Oh c’mon, there is no need to embellish the truth like this. Is this the best looking game of 2019? No, is it barely better looking than the Dreamcast version? No way, it is miles ahead.

There's no denying the quality of every particular asset is higher than the Dreamcast originals but the sum of the parts just sucks and I'd argue Shenmue III looks worse overall. The first two at least have cohesion and produce a whole that looks quality, the assets, the characters, the animations, the color pallets, etc. Shenmue III is just all over the place and I hate to use the comparison because it's overused but if one game ever looked like an amateur Unreal 4 project this is the one. The characters in particular are atrocious, the faces look so bad and out of place with the realistic environments that's not even funny, some characters have more or less realistic proportions while others are like grotesque charicatures, the facial animation, the character animation in general... it's just out of this word poor.

 

[Afro Republican]

Shenmue 3 literally proves to cult obsessed fans the first two games were always bad and flawed. It's basically the same game outside of the engine able to show people further than 10 inches away, and removing the slightly more openness of 2.

It was a tech demo that got fame it didn't deserve when the Dreamcast died and once the modern gaming craze made people want to inflate bad retro games on the DC for being unique because they were tired of games like COD, while ironically, ignoring games like Binary Domain and other poor selling great games.

It looked good and was playable with many problems, it was generally considered an average game and removed from most peoples minds during its time of relevancy, and now you are basically playing the same game again in 2019, who was going to buy this?

SEGA's part is just as you said, taking a licensing check and doing nothing. If the owner of the property won't support a sequel to a former flagship title, what message does that send?

Shenmue arguably was never a flagship title outside maybe the first game since they spend so much on it and it was a tech demo to try and show off the Dreamcast. Which it was when it came out, although I think SA1 looks more visually appealing even though it wasn't as technically impressive.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Even if Yakuza 7 became very distinct from Shenmue and if I wouldn't use your words, I admit Nagoshi's franchise is a real problem.

I remember a time when otaku friends where fascinated by Shenmue's japan, the graphics, 18 years old Nozomi...
Now, several of them prefer Yakuza because the setting is still in Japan, Kiryu has more charisma than Ryo, the formula has improved with top notch arcade games like VF5 FS and they don't care of teenage girls like Nozomi anymore.

A part of old Shenmue fans still find the game appealing (honest game by a honest director) but indeed the shiny, classy, enjoyable Yakuza experience is hurting Shenmue pretty bad :/

I mean, their tastes changed and they moved on. It happens all the time, and I wouldn't lay that at the fault of the Yakuza series. Removing options just to make other options seem more appealing due to lack of competition is never the ideal solution. The ideal solution in this case would be Shenmue innovating its approach to be more competitive with relative franchises.

The problem there though (aside from the budget gulf) is that Suzuki in the past has said he's the kind of guy who doesn't really pay attention to the gaming market at large, mainly because he wants to create his own visions without the influence of market trends and the such. I remember him saying something to that effect years ago, and going by how detached Shenmue III this from even tangentially related like Yakuza, let alone gaming at large.

That unfortunately means an increased risk in creating a game that doesn't appeal to the majority of the market, and it's fair to say Shenmue III most likely fits that bill due simply to how in contrast it is to the typical gaming experience on the market today. The controversies with Steam/EGS definitely did not help things, either. And I don't think Shenmue III is the kind of game publishers are going to merit using as a way of incentivize access media/reviewers in influence for favorable review scores, so :/

 

[MDSLKTR]

Gotta give credit to Sony for bringing the Kickstarter on E3 stage for good PR. Probably the only thing the game itself will be remembered for...

 

[Lionel Richie]

Gotta give credit to Sony for bringing the Kickstarter on E3 stage for good PR. Probably the only thing the game itself will be remembered for...

Sony benefited from that way more than Shenmue 3 did.

Replies in this thread are, for the most part, really depressing.

Yeah, people dunking on the Shenmue series is an abomination for gaming enthusiasts.

 

[SlaughterX]

Series has been trash from the beginning. Put em in the coffin.

 

[sunnysideup]

No one expected millennial snowflakes to have the patience to learn how to drive a forklift in the most authentic kung-fu simulator ever made.

No one. Stick to tiktok.

Shenmue is a master piece of art.

 

[Miles708]

Series has been trash from the beginning. Put em in the coffin.

Shenmue is a master piece of art.

Well that's a rollercoaster

There's no denying the quality of every particular asset is higher than the Dreamcast originals but the sum of the parts just sucks and I'd argue Shenmue III looks worse overall. The first two at least have cohesion and produce a whole that looks quality, the assets, the characters, the animations, the color pallets, etc. Shenmue III is just all over the place and I hate to use the comparison because it's overused but if one game ever looked like an amateur Unreal 4 project this is the one. The characters in particular are atrocious, the faces look so bad and out of place with the realistic environments that's not even funny, some characters have more or less realistic proportions while others are like grotesque charicatures, the facial animation, the character animation in general... it's just out of this word poor.

Serious question (albeit a bit weird): have you been playing with the english dub? I still honestly think that, just like with Shenmue II, it actively hurts the experience and the perception of the world.

Answering to your post: we're talking about an immersive 3D open world with kickstarter budget and team. S1 and 2 were Red Dead Redemption 2's level of budget and manpower, so no wonder.
Other than that, did you (or others honestly thinking the game is bad) reach the half-game? I'm asking because, personally, I've just reached the second area and I think the game becomes better and better as you progress, both graphically and mechanically.
I would argue that, while Bailu village is more of a typical Unreal scenery (even if I find it so cozy nonetheless), the second area really opens up and appears like they got grasp of their tools and possibilities.

Oddly enough, even NPC faces are much better there.

And, on the same note, let's not ignore the sheer amount of content (locations, shops, hundreds of NPCs, a LOT -really- of situational dialogues, interagible enviroments, combat, minigames etc etc) created for the game, always on a miraculously tight budget.

I can't help but wonder if the majority of people's complains are just because of the character heavy controls.

 

[Fat Frog]

I mean, their tastes changed and they moved on. It happens all the time, and I wouldn't lay that at the fault of the Yakuza series. Removing options just to make other options seem more appealing due to lack of competition is never the ideal solution. The ideal solution in this case would be Shenmue innovating its approach to be more competitive with relative franchises.

The problem there though (aside from the budget gulf) is that Suzuki in the past has said he's the kind of guy who doesn't really pay attention to the gaming market at large, mainly because he wants to create his own visions without the influence of market trends and the such. I remember him saying something to that effect years ago, and going by how detached Shenmue III this from even tangentially related like Yakuza, let alone gaming at large.

That unfortunately means an increased risk in creating a game that doesn't appeal to the majority of the market, and it's fair to say Shenmue III most likely fits that bill due simply to how in contrast it is to the typical gaming experience on the market today. The controversies with Steam/EGS definitely did not help things, either. And I don't think Shenmue III is the kind of game publishers are going to merit using as a way of incentivize access media/reviewers in influence for favorable review scores, so :/

I'm not accusing Yakuza.
Shenmue is just unlucky.

 

[Jan]

Fans of the series really enjoyed shenmue III. Its impressive to see that much hate forma people that dont even played the game.

Waiting for shenmue iv

 

[Business]

Well that's a rollercoaster


Serious question (albeit a bit weird): have you been playing with the english dub? I still honestly think that, just like with Shenmue II, it actively hurts the experience and the perception of the world.

Answering to your post: we're talking about an immersive 3D open world with kickstarter budget and team. S1 and 2 were Red Dead Redemption 2's level of budget and manpower, so no wonder.
Other than that, did you (or others honestly thinking the game is bad) reach the half-game? I'm asking because, personally, I've just reached the second area and I think the game becomes better and better as you progress, both graphically and mechanically.
I would argue that, while Bailu village is more of a typical Unreal scenery (even if I find it so cozy nonetheless), the second area really opens up and appears like they got grasp of their tools and possibilities.

Oddly enough, even NPC faces are much better there.

And, on the same note, let's not ignore the sheer amount of content (locations, shops, hundreds of NPCs, a LOT -really- of situational dialogues, interagible enviroments, combat, minigames etc etc) created for the game, always on a miraculously tight budget.

I can't help but wonder if the majority of people's complains are just because of the character heavy controls.

I haven't started the game yet, I'm taking strictly about the game's graphics. Don't get me wrong I really hope the game is good, I backed it on KS and not in one of the low tiers, but the technical side of the game is unsalvageable. Hellblade had a budget of 10M$, now that's a miracle. Shenmue's budget was low as well and it shows exceedingly.

 

[ROMhack]

No one expected millennial snowflakes to have the patience to learn how to drive a forklift in the most authentic kung-fu simulator ever made.

No one. Stick to tiktok.

Shenmue is a master piece of art.

I know you're exaggerating but I actually agree. Can't really understand the comparisons between the games at all.







If Yakuza were bubblegum it would be Bazooka Joe. Shenmue is classic spearmint Wrigleys.

Your move NeoGAF.

 

[Miles708]

I haven't started the game yet, I'm taking strictly about the game's graphics. Don't get me wrong I really hope the game is good, I backed it on KS and not in one of the low tiers, but the technical side of the game is unsalvageable. Hellblade had a budget of 10M$, now that's a miracle. Shenmue's budget was low as well and it shows exceedingly.

Honestly I do not agree. Some animations are janky, some faces are weird and some transitions in cutscenes are sudden, but other faces are amazing (even NPCs), other animations are wery well done and other cinematics are awesome. Also, enviroments and atmosphere are always gourgeos. Everything becomes magical when it starts to rain.
As I said, the amount and quality of content, given the budget/manpower, is nothing short of staggering. Yes, there are ugly bits, but also, there are also wonderful ones.

Also Hellblade: it's a techical miracle as well (and A Plague Tale, too. How do they look so good?!) but it's a completely linear AND a much shorter game. Not to detract from the excellent Ninja Theory's output, but the amount of work is much less.

 

[Adam_802]

what a shock

/s

 

[lame gag1990]

And why exactly SEGA had no money left? Because of dumb decisions starting from the very launch of the Saturn and imminent stoppage of game development for it to fully focus on Dreamcast because third party developers left the console over a year ago. Dreamcast had very early success but 5 months later PS2 arrived and the rest is history.

They got out of the HW business because 2 consoles in a row they couldn't generate enough money and besides Playstation, Microsoft entered with trillions in their pocket. SEGA saying they are out of HW business meant they wont be developing any more future consoles. Had nothing to do with current production of the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast literally had those 6 months and after that it went downhill forever until they completely folded.

Therefore, the Dreamcast was the final nail in the coffin and a flop. If it wasnt a flop, SEGA would have had money. They just realized they got beat by everyone.

You've just said it yourself. Poor management and poor decisions prior to the Dreamcast had already fucked them over financially. It was a matter of time regardless of whether it sold well or not. You live in this fantasy where no one bought anything but a PS2 when it launched. It sounds fun when a YouTuber tells the story but the fact is, SEGA couldn't keep producing the hardware, whether they sold well or not. They were selling the hardware at a loss and they were literally broke anyway.

 

[Business]

Honestly I do not agree. Some animations are janky, some faces are weird and some transitions in cutscenes are sudden, but other faces are amazing (even NPCs), other animations are wery well done and other cinematics are awesome. Also, enviroments and atmosphere are always gourgeos. Everything becomes magical when it starts to rain.
As I said, the amount and quality of content, given the budget/manpower, is nothing short of staggering. Yes, there are ugly bits, but also, there are also wonderful ones.

Also Hellblade: it's a techical miracle as well (and A Plague Tale, too. How do they look so good?!) but it's a completely linear AND a much shorter game. Not to detract from the excellent Ninja Theory's output, but the amount of work is much less.

I hope you are right and when I play it I'm surprised at the quality of some NPC's but I find it hard to believe.

I'm sorry but this is just very embarrassing in 2019

now compare it to this

Again, this doesn't mean the game can't be good, and I hope it is, but technically it's a really amateur looking work and I don't see how that can be denied.

 

[Dhoulmagus2008]

I never played any of the games but from a visual standpoint, it is one of the ugliest ps4 games I've ever seen

 

[Keihart]

I know you're exaggerating but I actually agree. Can't really understand the comparisons between the games at all.







If Yakuza were bubblegum it would be Bazooka Joe. Shenmue is classic spearmint Wrigleys.

Your move NeoGAF.

As a fan of both franchises, Yakuza and Shenmue, the surface parallels are undeniable but playing both games is a completely different experience even when comparing Yakuza 1 to Shenmue 2 wich are closer in the time frame.

Yakuza is all about living this Tokyo night life as some kind of larger than life character and as the series went on they doubled down on it always trying to give you more of everything, more stores, more locations, more chacaters, more moves, etc. Yakuza is a like a crime dorama.

Shenmue is on the contrary a game focused on the mundane, the mundane things make Shenmue what it is, being able to examine almost every object, having to care for time and weather, working for money, training, npcs having schedules, etc. I think that even things like going to the bathroom are not in the game just to keep it classy, but it would pretty much fit with the themes. This mundane feeling is so important that real fights are meant to be kept sparse, you don't walk the streets fighting thugs like in yakuza. Shenmue is like japanese martial arts movie.

If you play Yakuza expecting Shenmue is going to be very disappointing and if you play Shenmue expecting Yakuza you are probably also be very disappointed. But in the surface is a very easy way to compare this games because they are still, surprisingly, their own genres.

Edit:

I hope you are right and when I play it I'm surprised at the quality of some NPC's but I find it hard to believe.

I'm sorry but this is just very embarrassing in 2019

now compare it to this

Again, this doesn't mean the game can't be good, and I hope it is, but technically it's a really amateur looking work and I don't see how that can be denied.

What are you smoking, Hellblade is a fucking corridor "action" game, is a very focused experience, what is there to compare? Not saying that technically there were limitations to Shenmue's graphics , but production value isn't free and Shenmue 3 is pretty fucking big compared to Hellblade. I say this as a fucking whore for good animations, Shenmue 3 doesn't have great animations or even models, but it has a very consistent quality for a game of it's size considering it's budget.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Looking back on the excitement when this game was first announced, it's pretty amazing how a small yet vocal group can have on a community.

 

[teh_pwn]

I hope you are right and when I play it I'm surprised at the quality of some NPC's but I find it hard to believe.

I'm sorry but this is just very embarrassing in 2019

now compare it to this

Again, this doesn't mean the game can't be good, and I hope it is, but technically it's a really amateur looking work and I don't see how that can be denied.

You're comparing a kickstarter, extremely low budget game that intentionally tries to look like a cleaner Dreamcast game with an "in engine" market bullshot console clip. Why? What is the point of this comparison?

That's even worse than going into a Witcher 3 Switch thread with PC market clips of Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Business]

You're comparing a kickstarter, extremely low budget game that intentionally tries to look like a cleaner Dreamcast game with an "in engine" market bullshot console clip. Why? What is the point of this comparison?

That's even worse than going into a Witcher 3 Switch thread with PC market clips of Cyberpunk 2077.

Edit:


What are you smoking, Hellblade is a fucking corridor "action" game, is a very focused experience, what is there to compare? Not saying that technically there were limitations to Shenmue's graphics , but production value isn't free and Shenmue 3 is pretty fucking big compared to Hellblade. I say this as a fucking whore for good animations, Shenmue 3 doesn't have great animations or even models, but it has a very consistent quality for a game of it's size considering it's budget.

Do you guys actually read? Come on that should be the bare minimum. I am comparing the graphics of two games with comparable low budgets. One achieves modern graphics and the other in my opinion achieves amateur like results, and I'd argue these are objective facts. That's all, I will say again so you can relax, the game can still be good despite that.

 

[teh_pwn]

Do you guys actually read? Come on that should be the bare minimum. I am comparing the graphics of two games with comparable low budgets. One achieves modern graphics and the other in my opinion achieves amateur like results, and I'd argue these are objective facts. That's all, I will say again so you can relax, the game can still be good despite that.

What is the budget of Hellblade?

 

[Azelover]

I hope you are right and when I play it I'm surprised at the quality of some NPC's but I find it hard to believe.

I'm sorry but this is just very embarrassing in 2019

now compare it to this

Again, this doesn't mean the game can't be good, and I hope it is, but technically it's a really amateur looking work and I don't see how that can be denied.

Uhmm... I think that game had only one fully animated character. The other characters were filmed if I'm not mistaken. In Shenmue every NPC is shown in close-up talking and moving. A completely different situation. On Hellblade they got to focus completely on Senua, this could not be done in Shenmue even if they had a very large budget, which wasn't the case either.

I'm sorry but, that comparison is a little trollish and unfair.

 

[Krowe]

So I read little to nothing about the reception of Shenmue III aside from what I've seen in this thread, so here's my take.

Roughly 15 hours in, and still in the first area.
I'm willing to forgive a lot of the technical foibles (janky animations, bland english dubbing, mediocre graphics by today's standard), since there's a lot about this series that has aged terribly. A lot of the scenes seem incredibly awkward. I feel that a lot of people have the expectations of a AAA title since it was formerly treated as one. It's far from that and it didn't hurt my expectations whatsoever because this never had the budget of one. So that leads me to believe where a lot of criticism comes from. Can't say too much of the story so far.

That being said, I love Shenmue III so far. This is what I wanted personally. I wouldn't have it any other way for the third installment. Even with my own criticisms, a lot of those made the series what it was. Awkward scenes, bland voice acting, and slow paced gameplay that feels like a slog are things I actually appreciated because of how close it was to the older games. I really enjoyed Ryo actually getting some character development through his conversations with Shenhua. I can see why it's been divisive amongst fans, there's a lot more that could've been done to modernize the game. Take it for what it is, it's a Shenmue game at its core, and I personally hope there's another one.

Final thought, I would not recommend this series to anyone.

tl;dr Old game made for old fans that also plays old.

 

[Komatsu]

I'm willing to forgive a lot of the technical foibles (janky animations, bland english dubbing, mediocre graphics by today's standard), since there's a lot about this series that has aged terribly. A lot of the scenes seem incredibly awkward. I feel that a lot of people have the expectations of a AAA title since it was formerly treated as one. It's far from that and it didn't hurt my expectations whatsoever because this never had the budget of one. So that leads me to believe where a lot of criticism comes from. Can't say too much of the story so far.

Good points! Though we used to treat Shenmue as an AAA title because, well, the DC games were at their time the most expensive games ever. About $70 million in 2000 dollars. So, in a way, Shenmue was the very first "AAA" game to be understood as such. But III is an indie effort.

 

[Miles708]

Do you guys actually read? Come on that should be the bare minimum. I am comparing the graphics of two games with comparable low budgets. One achieves modern graphics and the other in my opinion achieves amateur like results, and I'd argue these are objective facts. That's all, I will say again so you can relax, the game can still be good despite that.

Hellblade's facial animations are SO GOOD. They really went all-in for that feature, they have the technology and basically created a game around that, and I think it actually puts many AAA titles to shame, in that department.

That said, as others already pointed out, the key difference here is in scope.
Hellblade has some great facial animations that you will NOT find in Shenmue III (not even close, honestly), but the studio behind Hellblade went all-in for that feature, making it a selling point of the game, and producing a much smaller, much linear game.
I'm saying it not to detract from Hellblade, which I still want to play.

Even if the budget would be more or less the same, with that same money Ninja Theory didn't have to deal with a dynamic dialogue system, economic system, NPC creation/animation/routine management, side content/activities, side quests, additional dubbed dialogue, memory management (being an open world), leveling system and who knows what else.
All in a kickstarter budget.

So, if you're looking for Hellblade facial animations, you will not find them, unfortunately. While I adore Shenmue III, it's crucial to keep expectations in check.

 

[Business]

Hellblade's facial animations are SO GOOD. They really went all-in for that feature, they have the technology and basically created a game around that, and I think it actually puts many AAA titles to shame, in that department.

That said, as others already pointed out, the key difference here is in scope.
Hellblade has some great facial animations that you will NOT find in Shenmue III (not even close, honestly), but the studio behind Hellblade went all-in for that feature, making it a selling point of the game, and producing a much smaller, much linear game.
I'm saying it not to detract from Hellblade, which I still want to play.

Even if the budget would be more or less the same, with that same money Ninja Theory didn't have to deal with a dynamic dialogue system, economic system, NPC creation/animation/routine management, side content/activities, side quests, additional dubbed dialogue, memory management (being an open world), leveling system and who knows what else.
All in a kickstarter budget.

So, if you're looking for Hellblade facial animations, you will not find them, unfortunately. While I adore Shenmue III, it's crucial to keep expectations in check.

I'd still argue the graphics are incredibly lacking across the board not only in facial animations. The focus on other things is a fair point but I can't help feeling the problem here has been more about the quality of the team Yu assembled and the artistic choice they went with. I'll leave it here tho as I see this subject really upsets some people.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Some of the characters look like cartoon characters, almost comedic in nature. I got to the second area and put it down for a while. I love the nostalgia of playing it. I'm just a bit worn from the limited gameplay. It was fine many years ago and its using a lot of fan nostalgia rather than tech nostalgia. If that even makes sense. The F.R.E.E. genre was revolutionary. When you thought of ShenMue, you thought about "going anywhere, do anything". It has all the great Dreamcast game play mechanics and its enjoyable to visit a realistic type of world. Its just very much on the same path it was years ago. Its the perfect nostalgia type of game.

 

[Vade]

Do you need to sell copies when all your fans already bought one aka funded the kickstarter?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I hope you are right and when I play it I'm surprised at the quality of some NPC's but I find it hard to believe.

I'm sorry but this is just very embarrassing in 2019

now compare it to this

Again, this doesn't mean the game can't be good, and I hope it is, but technically it's a really amateur looking work and I don't see how that can be denied.

I was almost gonna stick with the budget gulf thing but yeah, it turns out Hellblade was apparently made on a budget of a bit under $10 million, so this is a somewhat fair comparison. However, the team comprised of 20 people and from what I'm to understand it was a smaller team from within Ninja Theory itself which had around 100 people at the time of Hellblade's development.

Basically what I'm getting as is, did YS Net have the type of resource pool for development like the Hellblade team did, that one being able to potentially pull in help from the other 80+ Ninja Theory employees and utilize equipment & tech developed by the larger teams beforehand? Did Sony provide any such resources to YS Net? I doubt Digital Revolver did, and Epic? Nah we know they didn't.

So the comparison is mostly fair, but there's still a few variables here where Hellblade had a distinct advantage over S3 (another being that Hellblade was likely built on a pre-existing modified toolchain from Ninja Theory's earlier games, whereas S3 likely had to build its toolchain from the ground-up in UE4).

 

[Business]

Not to be an ass but this isn't in any way a fair comparison. S3 was made on a budget less than 1/10th of that Hellblade was made on (let alone the potential budget Hellblade 2 will have).

The game certainly has visual problems irrespective of its budget but this is like comparing a Ford sedan to a Lamborghini and asking why the Ford doesn't look or run as good. Maybe looking at the prices would reveal a reason, just saying...

Someone correct me if this is wrong but less than 1/10th doesn't sound accurate to me. Hellblade had a budget of "less than 10M$" while Shenmue's was 7.1M$.

Seen your Edit: but you are supposing extra staff worked in the game (source?) and the cost of this staff was not accounted for in the budget of the game (??) meh. I don't think so man.

 

[VertigoOA]

Question:

When did shenmue ever not flop?

it always did.

Seems par for the course

 

[pcenginefx2]

I played Shenmue I & II on Dreamcast and contrary to what others may say it WAS a big deal - it is what started the entire “open living world” gaming concept that nobody did before. Shenmue III has way less budget so nobody was expecting some state of the art production like Call of Duty but that wasn’t what it was created for. It was to continue the story of Shenmue that was created oh so long ago and for me I’m extremely grateful to have seen the story finally progress one step further.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Someone correct me if this is wrong but less than 1/10th doesn't sound accurate to me. Hellblade had a budget of "less than 10M$" while Shenmue's was 7.1M$.

Seen your Edit: but you are supposing extra staff worked in the game (source?) and the cost of this staff was not accounted for in the budget of the game (??) meh. I don't think so man.

I'm implying they had extra staff that could've lent a hand here and there, just not as full-time. And they were able to utilize toolchains developed by the rest of the company at large through development of prior releases. Pre-existing logistical pipelines, and possible legal subsidizing covered through Ninja Theory at large that YS Net may not have been eligible to, for mitigating parts of the development process finance-wise etc. (things such as tax breaks, which NT being a UK-based company for a decent amount of time, might've had an advantage in that YS Net didn't have).

None of that is unreasonable, as a good bit of it is just typical in business operations regardless of industry.

 

[Business]

I'm implying they had extra staff that could've lent a hand here and there, just not as full-time. And they were able to utilize toolchains developed by the rest of the company at large through development of prior releases. Pre-existing logistical pipelines, and possible legal subsidizing covered through Ninja Theory at large that YS Net may not have been eligible to, for mitigating parts of the development process finance-wise etc. (things such as tax breaks, which NT being a UK-based company for a decent amount of time, might've had an advantage in that YS Net didn't have).

None of that is unreasonable, as a good bit of it is just typical in business operations regardless of industry.

But you have to realize that you just made up all that, there's no facts here. Could, possibly, might... and again, any extra resources "here and there" should and would have been accounted for in the budget.
I mean I don't understand why you put so much effort in making up this justifications. You came here thinking Hellblade had +10x the budget of Shenmue III and upon realizing Shenmue's is like around 3/4 of Hellblad's you go to remarkable lenghts to create all sorts of explanations for why it's still not a fair comparison. Well I don't mind to agree to disagree.

 

[Rest]

Someone correct me if this is wrong but less than 1/10th doesn't sound accurate to me. Hellblade had a budget of "less than 10M$" while Shenmue's was 7.1M$.

Seen your Edit: but you are supposing extra staff worked in the game (source?) and the cost of this staff was not accounted for in the budget of the game (??) meh. I don't think so man.

Shenmue III's budget was more than $7,000,000. That was seed money to prove there was market interest and secure publisher investment. They got money from Sony, Deep Silver, and Epic too. As far as I can tell, the final budget has not been released.

 

[Miles708]

Shenmue III's budget was more than $7,000,000. That was seed money to prove there was market interest and secure publisher investment. They got money from Sony, Deep Silver, and Epic too. As far as I can tell, the final budget has not been released.

I hope I'm non misremebering but in an interview Suzuki said that the bulk of the budget came from the kickstarter itself.
Sony helped with the initial marketing, then Deep Silver with the rest of the marketing and some minor funding (I'd say around the million mark, but I'm not sure). I don't think it exceedes or maybe reaches 10 millions.
I think it's around the same budget as Hellblade, if we want to continue that comparison.

But you have to realize that you just made up all that, there's no facts here. Could, possibly, might... and again, any extra resources "here and there" should and would have been accounted for in the budget.
I mean I don't understand why you put so much effort in making up this justifications. You came here thinking Hellblade had +10x the budget of Shenmue III and upon realizing Shenmue's is like around 3/4 of Hellblad's you go to remarkable lenghts to create all sorts of explanations for why it's still not a fair comparison. Well I don't mind to agree to disagree.

Interestingly enough, a new interview went up just today regarding the manpower used for the game:
https://www.phantomriverstone.com/2019/12/part-3-shenmue-discussion-with-yu.html

To make it short: graphics compromises have been reached to make the team able to develop the rest of the content, and the "jankier" animations are there because getting those 100% accurate would have meant cutting 9/10 of them.

More critically (and more interestingly, in my opinion), the throw moves are missing because the mocap setup they had available used big chunky sensors, that could have been broken (or injured someone) if you tried to physically throw someone to the ground.
That's a an egregious example of the difference a pre-existing working pipeline can make, when creating something.