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[BadBreathOfTheWild]

How come Sony's SSD has no thermal heatsink to prevent overheating?
And how do you know that XSX SSD doesn't have a DRAM cache? Alot of nvme ssd have that.

How do you know it doesn’t? How do we know whether either consoles SSD solutions include a DRAM cache or not? I don’t quite see what you’re asking me or what your point is?

There’s a persistent narrative being pushed by some that Sony’s IO is “just” hardware (which is faster than software solutions anyway) and Microsoft are somehow closing the gap with software, when it’s clear Sony has invested far more money and thought into IO than Microsoft has, and the hardware they’ve added augments and works with the software architecture changes they’ve made and frees up the CPU to not have to allocate resources to IO.

Sony has delivered a full stack of IO from how the NAND chips are connected to how a GPU cache is handled by the new APIs using hardware to augment it.

Sony just hasn’t packaged all those various details into a marketable name.
Just as the work they did to reduce input latency on DualShock 4 (best in class by a margin) only got a passing line in the PS4 reveal, saying they’d improved it, but not giving it a fancy marketable name.

Another persistent factoid is that Sampler Feedback for Streaming improves SSD performance by 3x. It’s true versus a system using no Sampler Feedback/Partially Resident Textures, but not versus PS5 which presumably carries that over from PS4 GCN which did the same.
SFforS is Microsoft extended SF that adds some hardware filters to make it more efficient in some tasks.
The bit Microsoft added wasn’t being able to only stream in partial tiles from a texture, which is the bit that has an SSD multiplying effect. Last generation had that.

 

[Thirty7ven]

http://hhoppe.com/gim.pdf

Anybody able to get into this?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

What the hell happened? Two months ago everyone was fighting about TF. Come back around and people seem to be fighting over SSD as memory. I'm still on fence for next gen cause I don't know anything more of substance today than two months ago. But if the fight has moved to SSD, does that mean Sony already won?

Everyone assumed faster SSD meant PS5 would load in 1 second while XSX in 2-3 seconds, then it was all XSX.
Cerny said it was more than that but nobody really believed it until Sweeney showed it and said it was instrumental to the demo as shown.

Nanite and Lumen will work wonders for XSX too, but whether it can crunch the same movie quality assets is up for debate.

Nanite in particular relies heavily on Async Compute Engine of which it’s likely both PS5 and XSX has four units. PS5s running around ~20 faster.

 

[MasterCornholio]

because third parties are not about to abandon either company nor get on their bad side.

Depends what you mean by that since there will be instances where the developers will throw parity aside and take advantage of each platforms strengths.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Nanite runs faster on XSX. This is an un-disputeable fact.

This is hilarious.

1. I asked you to provide an official source to support this grandiloquent statement that you present here as a fact: "Nanite disproportionately favours wide GPUs (XSX) over narrow (PS5)."

2. You reply me with another gradiloquent fantasy: "Nanite runs faster on XSX. This is an un-disputeable fact" and then you post a dev tweet that is basically stating the opposite you intent to source

3. You stop replying the users who called this BS up and try to change the post goal to "How come Sony's SSD has no thermal heatsink to prevent overheating?" (ResetEra Discord FUD)

Spoiler

 

[Metroiddarks]

http://hhoppe.com/gim.pdf

Anybody able to get into this?

Because things like nanite normal maps are not necessary is just the geometry

 

[saintjules]

This might sound strange, but Dreams on PS4 for example is sporting global illumination in an impressive way, although he made extra light sources to show off the details, which is a mistake to do as it was more than enough with the main source coming from the hole to replicate the original scene instead of seeking an HDR look. You can't go wrong guessing that Sony's first part studios/Decima engine are already cooking something even more impressive:

2:13 was definitely a Salt Bae moment.

 

[NickFire]

Everyone assumed faster SSD meant PS5 would load in 1 second while XSX in 2-3 seconds, then it was all XSX.
Cerny said it was more than that but nobody really believed it until Sweeney showed it and said it was instrumental to the demo as shown.

Nanite and Lumen will work wonders for XSX too, but whether it can crunch the same movie quality assets is up for debate.

Nanite in particular relies heavily on Async Compute Engine of which it’s likely both PS5 and XSX has four units. PS5s running around ~20 faster.

Your post tells me two things:

1) I have some reading to do.
2) There may actually be a proper next generation not limited to fps and 4k resolution.

For that I tip my hat to you.

 

[Thirty7ven]

You guys are literally wasting your time. Getting dragged into a battle of wills....

 

[amstradcpc]

Compare ZLIB decompression speed to KRAKEN, 75% faster!. Those vertices meshes will fly from SSD to RAM!:

 

[Thirty7ven]

Because things like nanite normal maps are not necessary is just the geometry

It's not just that, it seems like geometry can effectively be stored as 2D which can be effectively compressed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I guess in the end people are trying to argue which difference will be more noticeable. Will it be the PS5s I/O solution or the XSXs more powerful GPU?

There are also those turfing around trying to give one device ALL advantages across the board over the other, even in the SSD department. That is also why there's so much focus on SSD now, where it was hand-waved away by them prior... until UE5 happened.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This might sound strange, but Dreams on PS4 for example is sporting global illumination in an impressive way, although he made extra light sources to show off the details, which is a mistake to do as it was more than enough with the main source coming from the hole to replicate the original scene instead of seeking an HDR look. You can't go wrong guessing that Sony's first part studios/Decima engine are already cooking something even more impressive:

Yeah, but one has geometric data, the other was formed out of clay. From afar it looks good, but it is far from good up close.

 

[Apollo Helios]

3D Audio & HRTF shouldn't require any special hardware in the listening device. For headphones and earphones, the resulting audio will just be a stereo stream, everything is baked in. That's the great thing with this sorta thing, no hardware decoders, virtualisation, special formats or multichannel virtual surround crap needed.

With HRTF being applied natively on the PS5 itself, it should just be able to output a 2.0 audio track that plays back on any headphones, headset or earphones. Fidelity/quality of the audio will of course differ as it always has from pair to pair, but the fundamental functionality in terms of 3D audio will be there with any basic pair.

In regards to speaker setups, that will of course require something a little different. What I'm hoping they do there rather than rely entirely on virtualisation is try to maintain a pure audio path and simply probe the soundscape of the game world differently (or with additional points in the case of surround setups or soundbars) and then apply a different transfer function; only relying on virtualisation if absolutely necessary to tweak it..

Platinum Headset can be run at VSS&3D off which makes it 2.0 stereo so it will work for PS5 at least in old 3D and new Tempest solution. Stereo 2.0 is the best case for Tempest to shine since HRTF is applied easily and one speaker do not interfere with the other creating distortions based on speakers placement (which happens even for static TV speaker setups, and worse for user placed surround sound setups). I have 5.1 surround sound system and Platinum headsets and for games supporting 3D it is night and day better than the surround system. Also HRTF is harder to apply when speakers have cross distortion (based on placement of individual satellites) and are farther from the ear (unlike headphones that is right in your ear). So even if they manage to work out a solution maybe involving placing microphones and sampling the room acoustics, it probably will not be good as headphones.

A very interesting tech released by Sony 4 days ago. Could it be implemented for PSVR2? Or a new AI cam compatible with PS5? Sony still flexing with stacked sensors:




@BGs only let us know about it if it's not under NDA. Thanks

Well it is probably not under NDA anymore, if the product hit the market soon.

Epic Clarifies An Important Question Between Xbox Series X And PS5

Sony's PS5 gained some attention from an Unreal Engine 5 demo earlier in the week, and now Epic has clarified some confusion about the capabilities of Microsoft's Xbox Series X and Sony's machine.

www.forbes.com

i think he is right and we will not get a “proper” next gen games until 2021

For Xbox yeah, but for PS5


PS5 will hit the market alongside "proper" games Holiday 2020 AND early 2021 hahaha lol

I don't know if I understood your question well.

Do you really want to know if PSVR2 will carry that chip? Or if it will be wireless based on it?

In reference to the first, I do not know.

So in reference to 'Or if it will be wireless based on it?' So you you are saying PSVR2 wireless within possibility with this tech??

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Yeah, but one has geometric data, the other was formed out of clay. From afar it looks good, but it is far from good up close.

That's the point, easy engine inside a game that have limited power but still makes endless ideas. Overall, the mild ray tracing in the game should be amplified on PS5.

 

[Metroiddarks]

It's not just that, it seems like geometry can effectively be stored as 2D which can be effectively compressed.

In theory you can represent for this exists papers since around than 18 years ago but I will not theorize so much about this at least for now.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That is also why there's so much focus on SSD now, where it was hand-waved away by them prior... until UE5 happened

It is the biggest upgrade from last gen systems.

Honestly what did people expect was going to happen?

The Unreal Engine 5 takes advantage of these SSDs. There's obviously going to be big upgrades with the engine since the previous version dealt with slow HDDs.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

J_Gamer.exe said:
As far as we know Xbox doesn't have the 12 channel controller, co processors, cache scrubbers etc.
[/wuote]

Tell me what does these things do exact and the specific boost it will provide in details? for all we know it can provide a 3% boost.

J_Gamer.exe said:
Sony have claimed if their ssd was 100x faster with these specific hardware breakthroughs they can transfer it to the useable end as 100x faster.
Their SSD is 100x faster because it runs at 9,000 MB/s vs PS4's 100 MB/s
100 * 100 = 10,000

Hardware decompression and not having to mess with the CPU gives you those gains.
J_Gamer.exe said:
Now if Microsoft have not eliminated the ssd bottlenecks and all of them (which sony said you need to do and to do that they needed that specific hardware, that's just not present on xbox) then it's common sense their io will be much slower. Unless sfs is magic and bcpack somehow are better the dedicated hardware.
What do you mean? Their BcPack runs on their dedicated hardware decompressor. Bro come on...



J_Gamer.exe said:
Again, look at that third party dev opinion that lines up with a lot of others we have heard, from insane metal. It mentions 2.5x faster minimum - 5x faster.
What opinion?

J_Gamer.exe said:
It could end up 25 times ps4 at the other end. That's great and a massive improvement but sony is claiming their speed transfers so ps5 would in that situation be 4 times xbox.

That's basically what that dev opinion is saying it is.
Now you are just making stuff up

We know cerny said the 12 channel controller was critical to it having the 5.5GB bandwidth. So it's one of many critical components that all together provide the breakthrough sony has made. Co processors and cache scrubbers, again these are again deemed critical to eliminate the bottlenecks, we can speculate as to how much they would be per component missing but it's rather pointless without knowing more specifics.

We can see the picture shown by sony though.

We can see that if left unaddressed and just an ssd bolted on it effectively get 20% of its speed carried through, if we use the slide to be accurate.

If we imagine there were only 4 bottlenecks and each had an equal impact.

If xbox had only eliminated 2 of them for ex, it's real world speed would effectively half again at the other end. So a 10x faster ssd is then 5x. This is how the xbox could fall further behind. I said could not will or would, I'm speculating like anyone else and based off what whispers are coming out.

Regarding SFS and bcpack, the magic equaliser that is being brought in to level out the ssd arguments, I said unless their method with sfs and bcpack are somehow better than the dedicated hardware... that sony has that is which seems very unlikely to me.

The opinion referred to what this one...

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

I agree with you. Altough XBSX makes for a more than spectacular number crunching machine it's based on the same paradigm as we have today. Sony's looking to change that altogether. Regarding your SSD's size quote, you mean the 825GB because of the 12 chips or do you mean something else? Yes...

www.neogaf.com

It was vetted as the opinion of a third party dev.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

It's razor sharp before action because that's how compression works. With worse quality of most streaming services right now, you're going to get artifacts in moving fragments of the video, that ball to be precise. Raytracing artifacts look different, more grainy. Also there's no reason why a...

www.neogaf.com

It lines up with a lot of rumours and common sense, if you don't invest in the same io hardware needed for sony to remove those bottlenecks.

So the 25% was not making things up it was speculating, as per the thread, also pretty much lining up with a dev opinion and using common sense.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

There is 5G but still capped (1TB/mo) not as stable as wired. And I don't like capped plans, I prefer unlimited with no headaches. In 2-3 months fiber should be available

I lived with 4g for 3 horrible years. We finally got fiber 2 years ago. I currently have 300 mbps connection with a tv service. Most of Saudi is covered with fiber now.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It is the biggest upgrade from last gen systems.

Honestly what did people expect was going to happen?

The Unreal Engine 5 takes advantage of these SSDs. There's obviously going to be big upgrades with the engine since the previous version dealt with slow SSDs.

But, but this in the headline wars!

And yes, it's a paradigm shift. A fantastic one at that.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It was vetted as the opinion of a third party dev.

It’s unclear what the dev was talking about, as it seems he’s not just talking about I/O but system performance. His analogy doesn’t make sense if it’s just I/O he’s talking about....

And people equate power with performance, when they shouldn’t.

 

[geordiemp]

Compare ZLIB decompression speed to KRAKEN, 75% faster!. Those vertices meshes will fly from SSD to RAM!:

But they are probably split into smaller tiles so much smaller bits, so unsure what compression will be . we wait...

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[saintjules]

BTW, to consider early June in the move of the PS5 reveal, it would be within the next week from June 4th. Anything after is considered mid/late June. That's if we're being technical here.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[CurtBizzy]

 

[Dee_Dee]

Sigh...of course it’s moving. Watch days turn into weeks and then weeks turn into months and then and then I’ll just cry

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

BTW, to consider early June in the move of the PS5 reveal, it would be within the next week from June 4th. Anything after is considered mid/late June. That's if we're being technical here.

Early June still works for me.

 

[pasterpl]

PS5 will hit the market alongside "proper" games Holiday 2020 AND early 2021 hahaha lol

In every new generation It takes time before devs can utilise most of the new features

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

http://hhoppe.com/gim.pdf

Anybody able to get into this?

This is where things get interesting. It could explain how EPICs UE5 is so efficient with geometry.
Beeing able to store static models/geometry as images is a mindboggling degree of compression.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Early June still works for me.

We're already halfway done with May! They probably want it earlier in the week so they have headlines all week long instead of the slow weekends.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Crysis was pretty much the only game that was designed for high end pc's. 99% of games were made to run on consoles and low end rigs just the same as today

 

[FeiRR]

This is where things get interesting. It could explain how EPICs UE5 is so efficient with geometry.
Beeing able to store static models/geometry as images is a mindboggling degree of compression.

Maybe you'll find something interesting here: https://directtovideo.wordpress.com
I posted a related video a while ago but nobody commented. For me, it's far beyond my realtime graphics knowledge.

 

[Metroiddarks]

They really choose a bad game for demonstrate this or they don't improve much the IO set for old games we will discover later.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I dunno who ColtEastwood is but I saw that Greenberg retweeted this video





I am about halfway through the video and I haven't heard him say anything about PS5 vs XsX. Mostly just talking about Scorn and The Medium devs have said about developing for XsX.

Might be a little click-baity with the "IMPOSSIBLE TECH" headline

 

[3liteDragon]

uh oh

 

[saintjules]

uh oh

And this all happened in a matter of days it seems.

I found his article by the way. Went out this morning - https://venturebeat.com/2020/05/18/quartermann-e3-2020/

First is a Sony event in early June. The company was originally planning this for June 4, but it is moving it around. The exact date is more nebulous now. That doesn’t mean it’s slipping by a matter of weeks, though. The early June timeframe is still the company’s current plan.

What should you expect from this early June event? Sony was putting together a roster of next-gen games (not just first-party). The shifting date, however, may cause some complications in that regard.

And I do not know if this is when Sony will finally show the physical console itself. It’s possible, but I cannot confirm that.

I do anticipate that Sony will have shown the PlayStation 5 off in detail by the start of its following event. The company is putting together one of its State of Play video presentations for early August. This will highlight a combination of current- and next-gen games.

Through August, you should still expect Sony to communicate using its blog and social channels as well.

 

[Dee_Dee]

uh oh

Anndddd here we fucking go . Ugh i wish i could just go into a deep sleep and wake up in November. I’m sick of these twitter people.
/end rant

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Maybe you'll find something interesting here: https://directtovideo.wordpress.com
I posted a related video a while ago but nobody commented. For me, it's far beyond my realtime graphics knowledge.

Virtual Geometry Images

Geometry images are one of those ideas so simple you ask yourself "Why didn't I think of this?" I'll admit it isn't the topic of much discu...

graphicrants.blogspot.com

This blogpost about Geometry images is from 2009 and was made by:
"Brian Karis, San Francisco, CA - I am a Senior Graphics Programmer at Epic Games. This blog is a place for me to dump game and graphics related thoughts and share with the greater graphics community."

Go figure.

 

[FeiRR]

Virtual Geometry Images

Geometry images are one of those ideas so simple you ask yourself "Why didn't I think of this?" I'll admit it isn't the topic of much discu...

graphicrants.blogspot.com

This blogpost about Geometry images is from 2009 and was made by:
"Brian Karis, San Francisco, CA - I am a Senior Graphics Programmer at Epic Games. This blog is a place for me to dump game and graphics related thoughts and share with the greater graphics community."

Go figure.

Thanks! This one, for a change, isn't Dutch for me

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Agreed.

A 30FPS video of real life shot on a mobile phone at 1080P looks better than any current game would at 4K 60FPS.

Next generation isn't pixels per unit of time. I can already go nuts on CS:GO on a 240Hz monitor and the game is doing nothing new at all. It's a sharper and more fluid version of what we've had for a decade.
Next generation for me is more detail in the world, more density, more variety, being able to see right across an insanely big open world etc

I'm on board with that! Give more new things! And I really love draw distances, it's the most noticeable thing in gaming. Sony has passion, and I trust Sony to deliver. Sony as a company circulates around entertainment and joy as their main goal out of most of their products.

 

[Metroiddarks]

I dunno who ColtEastwood is but I saw that Greenberg retweeted this video





I am about halfway through the video and I haven't heard him say anything about PS5 vs XsX. Mostly just talking about Scorn and The Medium devs have said about developing for XsX.

Might be a little click-baity with the "IMPOSSIBLE TECH" headline

I'm going to throw up a little.

This is something that if you must say I really dislike Xbox stop using your fanboys as media weapons is extremely distasteful.

I never saw people like Reggie making retweet a Nintendo fanboys the same for playstation in many years.

But in exchange people of Xbox like the same Phil love to share tabloid journalism and encourage than kind of behaviour.

 

[Gediminas]

I dunno who ColtEastwood is but I saw that Greenberg retweeted this video





I am about halfway through the video and I haven't heard him say anything about PS5 vs XsX. Mostly just talking about Scorn and The Medium devs have said about developing for XsX.

Might be a little click-baity with the "IMPOSSIBLE TECH" headline

Fud spreading machine. that who he is.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Bloodborne Is Coming To PC According To Industry Insider

“BLOODBORNE is currently in development for PC. I wanted to go ahead and get this to you guys who love to game on PC. This could take 10 months up to a year to get announced but other Sony games to PC might get announced first and this later! If you thought that Horizon was the only one coming to PC then prepare to get blown away. But yeah, do NOT take this as 100% confirmation and wait for official news! And of course, take every leak with a grain of salt.”

(Updated) Bloodborne: Industry Insider Claims Its Coming To PC

Even though the DarkSouls games are available to play on PC, Bloodborne is exclusive to PS4. That could change in the future.

respawnfirst.com

Just let me run the game on the PS5 at a locked 60fps with no frame pacing issues and call it a day.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Maybe some nuggets in here? If what he says is true, the 100Mhz CPU difference probably doesn't mean much, or might even be sending the wrong message?

 

[Deto]

I'm going to throw up a little.

This is something that if you must say I really dislike Xbox stop using your fanboys as media weapons is extremely distasteful.

I never saw people like Reggie making retweet a Nintendo fanboys the same for playstation in many years.

But in exchange people of Xbox like the same Phil love to share tabloid journalism and encourage than kind of behaviour.

Phill spencer pretends to be the cool guy officially.

discreetly pays for this type of marketing, employing Greeberg

Then I have to listen to the xbox fans playing the victims.

 

[FeiRR]

I'm going to throw up a little.

This is something that if you must say I really dislike Xbox stop using your fanboys as media weapons is extremely distasteful.

I never saw people like Reggie making retweet a Nintendo fanboys the same for playstation in many years.

But in exchange people of Xbox like the same Phil love to share tabloid journalism and encourage than kind of behaviour.

I agree with you on the Xbox part but I've just thought about Sony and I see no interaction with fans from them at all. I mean, particular studios like Santa Monica or Naughty Dog are active on social media but Sony, or rather I should say, Playstation don't do it. I think they should, of course in a different way. Official PS forums closed down, their Facebook/Twitter is terribly stiff. The only outlet I can think of is Access Playstation on YT. But what about more live interaction?

 

[Insane Metal]

Lol, MSs PR machine is in full steam. As usual. Every goddamn time.

 

[Deto]

I agree with you on the Xbox part but I've just thought about Sony and I see no interaction with fans from them at all. I mean, particular studios like Santa Monica or Naughty Dog are active on social media but Sony, or rather I should say, Playstation don't do it. I think they should, of course in a different way. Official PS forums closed down, their Facebook/Twitter is terribly stiff. The only outlet I can think of is Access Playstation on YT. But what about more live interaction?

who do you respect?

a) who is silent
b) who talks shit

 

[silent head]

.