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[Kagero]

Sony could have come up with a better name for the discless PS5. Both PS5 models are digital devices.

PS5 double D - digital deluxe

 

[Shin]

Disc drive out, HDD size increased --> price unchanged.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

825 gb was chosen for performance reasons so no.

Actually it was chosen because it’s the ideal size for 12 channel. But you can double the size and keep the same performance, of course.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Disc drive out, HDD size increased --> price unchanged.

They already said the only difference is the disc drive.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Jim Ryan said they are going for value instead of price this time, but he also said they wanted a fast migration. What better incentive than having a $100 less entry point? Those who want more value(keep disc collections, 4k Blu-ray movies) will go for the regular one, 399/499 makes a lot of sense.

Wouldn't it be more likely to be 449/549 then?

 

[Neo Blaster]

Wouldn't it be more likely to be 449/549 then?

When he talked about value over price, that sounded to me like a way of saying to customers not to expect $399 again for a regular console. But if they could get that 'magical' number again for DE it would be great, this price went really well with their installed base so far.

Anyways, of course it could be higher, but I still think a reasonable delta would be $100 between both versions

 

[Drunkensamurai]

$399 digital
$470 physical

Specs and SSD sizes will stay the same.
There is no way PS5 is more than $499. PS3 memories will come back to haunt them.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't think it is a case of "the PS5 discless is cheaper" as much as "the PS5 disc is more expensive." I know it's the same in the end, but the drive is like a $20 part. If Sony goes ahead and charges $50-$100 more, it's a nice bit of profit on each console, and gives them room to be more aggressive on price overall.

 

[Neofire]

I don't think the PS5 Digital's price difference from the PS5 Lump can be estimated through BOM Math. I think strategy will play a bigger role than the actual cost difference in parts. I think Sony will eat a loss on the PS5 Digital in order to conpensate with digital sales, which in general are more expensive than physical copies.

This, I think the digital only console will be 400 and the disk drive one will be 500.

 

[Shin]

They already said the only difference is the disc drive.

They = ?

 

[Neo Blaster]

Since we are speculating about price, what do you think PS4 base/Pro will be after PS5 price is announced? Do you think

They = ?

Jim Ryan in an interview after the console reveal.

 

[Tarin02543]

Actually it was chosen because it’s the ideal size for 12 channel. But you can double the size and keep the same performance, of course.

Wouldn't a 24 channel ssd require a different pcb lay out? If so yes, the DE might be more expensive.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I keep hearing these guys are not biased, but this is the 2nd video he is harping on about price of the console, has microsoft revealed the price of the xsx ? No? Why is that not a big deal and sony not revealing the price yet a big deal?

why has microsoft not revealed lockhart ? Why is that "very obviously" ?

Sony creates the UHD BD drive, so they build it at cost.

Somewhat gigantic...

smaller less capable processor... (completely forgetting to mention that its running at much higher frequencies for the gpu and that the cpus are basically awash and not less capable)

size is problematic, for ikea kallax, yet he forgets to mention that the width of the xsx is also problematic, especially in the horizontal config.

More likely to topple over, more likely to not balance horizontally, possible extra cost for stand -- all negatives,

declined to show the rear again a negative spin.

Hope we can turn off the blue light... the ps4 also had a blue light running across, no issue there, but its an issue here apparently, again a negative.

hardware design looks contentious, again negative.

Then the spiel about pricing, etc etc, throwing negative spin at digital possible reduction costs.


If you hear everything he says, its all negative spin.

Its the wording and the phrasing that all shows this, he could have quite obviously said the PS5 has taken a narrow and fast approach, we cant be sure about the thermal impact this will have.. That would be a neutral way of saying it.

Nothing he says is neutral it all wreaks of bias against the platform, its full of negative phrases with a but thrown in to try and make it sound less fanboyish. I'm sorry its just all so obvious.

Sony didn’t create the UHD drive. They don’t get them at “cost”

 

[Red Rackham's Revenge]

I oddly think that the diskless PS5 will be the... More expensive one.

I think it will come with a 1640gb ssd size instead, which will pump the cost up a fair whack, compared to the normal 820gb SSD the PS5 has.

Doubt it.

They have an incentive to trap people with the digital edition because they have a monopoly on digital sales.

You'll be able to upgrade the hard drive anyway, so even if it's double the size, you're still gimping yourself. The only advantage is that the digital looks better.

I don't think the PS5 Digital's price difference from the PS5 Lump can be estimated through BOM Math. I think strategy will play a bigger role than the actual cost difference in parts. I think Sony will eat a loss on the PS5 Digital in order to conpensate with digital sales, which in general are more expensive than physical copies.

Yep.

Games here are often about 60% more on the PS store at launch. It's just ridiculous. I only ever buy games from them during big sales when they have deep discounts.

I can't imagine being trapped in that scenario being forced to pay much more for game with no other option.

 

[Investor9872]

Jim Ryan said they are going for value instead of price this time, but he also said they wanted a fast migration. What better incentive than having a $100 less entry point? Those who want more value(keep disc collections, 4k Blu-ray movies) will go for the regular one, 399/499 makes a lot of sense.

The kind of new tech that the PS5 has, value could be $599 to Jim Ryan for all we know, so it may turn out to be $499/$599, and that would be a travesty!

 

[Investor9872]

Disc drive out, HDD size increased --> price unchanged.

Lol. The disk drive costs Sony $20, while the highly customized SSD may cost them up to $150, so no.

 

[acm2000]

Why do people assume it will be cheaper? I assume same price but comes with more storage.

Maybe something like 1tb standard storage for moving games too and from the SSD to play them

 

[Thanati]

I oddly think that the diskless PS5 will be the... More expensive one.

I think it will come with a 1640gb ssd size instead, which will pump the cost up a fair whack, compared to the normal 820gb SSD the PS5 has.

That is actually a REALLy good point. If you're going diskless, you need the storage space. Bluray drives are cheap to manufacture but a large and fast SSD would be more expensive.

Really good point and yeah, I agree with you.

 

[fersnake]

825 gb was chosen for performance reasons so no.

maybe they can throw an hdd there? maybe 1tb so you can backup you games.

 

[iJudged]

Yes, I think price will be PS5 $499 and PS5DE $449.

Wishful thinking...More like $549 and $599, that SSD is really expensive, and even at those prices, i am willing to bet they're taking a loss.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

It if has backwards compatibility then I’m definitely getting disc version. I have so many disc based games I want to play with the hardware upgrade.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

I'm definitely getting the all digital version. Haven't bought a physical disc since 2014.

My PS4 is the only device still using this ancient tech. It'll be good to finally abandon discs completely.

If there is a price difference I'd say 100.

 

[UnNamed]

A hdd cost more than a drive.
If we presume 499€ for the disk version, the diskless would be just 449€, not that much.
But Sony could sell the disk less version at loss considering they will have more profit with digital games. So 399€ for the diskless version could be possible.

 

[Miles708]

Digital Foundry believes the disk drive is worth around 20$ for Sony. Assuming that's the case, the digital-only version is... i'm tempted to say "scam", but i'll settle for "a marketing stunt".

You actually have an inferior machine for an artificial price decrease, while even the regular edition could have the same price, given the low production cost of the missing feature.
Actually, it's the regular edition that will cost "more" for basically no reason.

Always assuming the "around 20$" is a realistic estimate.

 

[Grinchy]

I don't think $100 less is crazy. If you buy a digital-only PS5, then Sony is the one and only retailer from which you can buy your games. There's no such thing as Gamestop, Walmart, Amazon, ect getting any cut of a game's sales. Every game you buy is ~30% of the sale price in Sony's pocket. And if it is one of their 1st party games, their cut is 100%.

Sony and MS absolutely cream their panties at the thought of people wanting digital-only consoles.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Why do people assume it will be cheaper? I assume same price but comes with more storage.

Maybe something like 1tb standard storage for moving games too and from the SSD to play them

Because Ryan already confirmed the only difference is the disc drive.

 

[kingwingin]

Aren't there licensing fees that have to paid aswell for dvd/bluray use? Does that $20 amount include those?

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Actually it was chosen because it’s the ideal size for 12 channel. But you can double the size and keep the same performance, of course.

Performance increases with SSD capacity, as does cost. Adding more capacity would probably add more cost than the disc drive, seeing as it's new tech. I'd love for the DE to have more capacity at the same price, but I just don't see it happening. I wouldn't expect a higher-capacity drive to be an OEM option for a couple of years. 3rd party options are probably going to be crazy expensive as is.

 

[oldergamer]

Oh man, MS could clean up if they say, hey, we are giving you the ability to re-sell your digital licenses

 

[-Arcadia-]

I keep hearing these guys are not biased, but this is the 2nd video he is harping on about price of the console, has microsoft revealed the price of the xsx ? No? Why is that not a big deal and sony not revealing the price yet a big deal?

why has microsoft not revealed lockhart ? Why is that "very obviously" ?

Sony creates the UHD BD drive, so they build it at cost.

Somewhat gigantic...

smaller less capable processor... (completely forgetting to mention that its running at much higher frequencies for the gpu and that the cpus are basically awash and not less capable)

size is problematic, for ikea kallax, yet he forgets to mention that the width of the xsx is also problematic, especially in the horizontal config.

More likely to topple over, more likely to not balance horizontally, possible extra cost for stand -- all negatives,

declined to show the rear again a negative spin.

Hope we can turn off the blue light... the ps4 also had a blue light running across, no issue there, but its an issue here apparently, again a negative.

hardware design looks contentious, again negative.

Then the spiel about pricing, etc etc, throwing negative spin at digital possible reduction costs.


If you hear everything he says, its all negative spin.

Its the wording and the phrasing that all shows this, he could have quite obviously said the PS5 has taken a narrow and fast approach, we cant be sure about the thermal impact this will have.. That would be a neutral way of saying it.

Nothing he says is neutral it all wreaks of bias against the platform, its full of negative phrases with a but thrown in to try and make it sound less fanboyish. I'm sorry its just all so obvious.

The same people who have spent all week crying about others not agreeing with them that TLoU2 is the greatest game ever made, accusing the most highly regarded and reputed gaming journalism of bias, because they didn't hear what they wanted.

Really activates the almonds.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Wouldn't a 24 channel ssd require a different pcb lay out? If so yes, the DE might be more expensive.

Double density chips instead of double the number of chips, so it is still 12 channels. But that would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay more expensive than the bluray drive.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Oh man, MS could clean up if they say, hey, we are giving you the ability to re-sell your digital licenses

Because MS can just snap its fingers and make third parties fall in line.

 

[D.Final]

A good strategy for the main price

 

[Bojanglez]

It will be fascinating to see the pricing. Sony will have a lot of data on their users and I can see the argument for actually pricing it as a premium product for those that are 100% digital with additional storage (I assume their data will tell them or l these people use more storage).

However the ability to keep the storage the same, and pass on the savings in the form of a lower RRP, I imagine will be too enticing. Especially if it allows them to advertise "from £450" (rather than the higher disc version).

You never know for this reason the digital might come itself with 2 SKUs, based on storage capacity (but I doubt it).

 

[vdopey]

Sony didn’t create the UHD drive. They don’t get them at “cost”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

They manufacture them (probably actually foxxcon in china, stamped with a sony logo) and were one of the inventors, hence why I said they are at "cost" they are on the board of directors for blu-ray disc association and probably earn money from patents for each of the uhd br / br drives sold as they are one of the licensors of the tech also per film / game sold:
https://www.one-blue.com/licensors/

Microsoft is probably paying more than Sony per drive and per disc (they quite possibly maybe using Sony drives), so its interesting that Sony are releasing an all digital version and they will probably take a hit on each digital version sold. Manufacturing and printing uhd br discs, boxes and box art cant be cheap, then shipping / handling etc etc.. none of that logistical nonsense to take care of with a digital download. I still prefer to have a uhd br drive though, choice is a great thing,

 

[Lone Wolf]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

They manufacture them (probably actually foxxcon in china, stamped with a sony logo) and were one of the inventors, hence why I said they are at "cost" they are on the board of directors for blu-ray disc association and probably earn money from patents for each of the uhd br / br drives sold as they are one of the licensors of the tech also per film / game sold:
https://www.one-blue.com/licensors/

Microsoft is probably paying more than Sony per drive and per disc (they quite possibly maybe using Sony drives), so its interesting that Sony are releasing an all digital version and they will probably take a hit on each digital version sold. Manufacturing and printing uhd br discs, boxes and box art cant be cheap, then shipping / handling etc etc.. none of that logistical nonsense to take care of with a digital download. I still prefer to have a uhd br drive though, choice is a great thing,

Blu ray used Microsoft codecs when it came out and MS got royalties for that. Again, Sony doesn’t own Blu ray or UHD. They don’t get it any cheaper than anyone else.

 

[Hostile_18]

The SSD will be the same in both it's already been confirmed there are no other differences.

From Sonys perspective it's better for people to adopt the all digital but outwardly looking it will be a massive fuck you if Sony try charging its fans more than a $100 for a disc drive.

Still a shitty situation, the dream of disc based PS1-3 back compatibility is all but dead .

 

[vkbest]

What if.... the price is the same? I mean, maybe they want sell you the digital model because is prettier and more symmetric?

 

[ZehDon]

Decent video.

The sticking point for me is simple: you don't release an alternative SKU if you believe everyone will buy the original SKU. The disc-version still affords an individual the option of going fully digital - as many did with the PS4. Sony therefore believe there's a reason that people won't buy the base PS5 and are offering an SKU that addresses it. If the hardware is identical - ala, it's not a Lockheart style downgrade box - then the only thing left on the ballot to differentiate the SKUs is price.

So, the price needs to be prohibitive, to justify the digital only console. $599.00 for the base. $499.00 for the digital only.

 

[vdopey]

Blu ray used Microsoft codecs when it came out and MS got royalties for that. Again, Sony doesn’t own Blu ray or UHD. They don’t get it any cheaper than anyone else.

There is/was 1 MS codec companies could use (VC-1, which sony holds some patents for as well), could being the operative word (AVC can also be used). MS had nothing to do with the invention of br, microsoft went all in with hd-dvd which failed, sony are 1 of the inventors of the format, big difference. Sony don't own it, but make royalties from each unit sold and from each disc sold and they also manufacture the drives.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Decent video.

The sticking point for me is simple: you don't release an alternative SKU if you believe everyone will buy the original SKU. The disc-version still affords an individual the option of going fully digital - as many did with the PS4. Sony therefore believe there's a reason that people won't buy the base PS5 and are offering an SKU that addresses it. If the hardware is identical - ala, it's not a Lockheart style downgrade box - then the only thing left on the ballot to differentiate the SKUs is price.

So, the price needs to be prohibitive, to justify the digital only console. $599.00 for the base. $499.00 for the digital only.

While i agree with your conclusion, there's another reason for having split SKUs, and it's because they can't go digital only yet. This is due to stalwarts (see all the people saying they'll buy the disc version), and because of retailers, who still want to sell physical games, like Gamestop. This generation might be the bridge/transition to the little holosphere, digital future that Kutaragi proposed so long ago with the PS9 commercial.

 

[Ar¢tos]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

They manufacture them (probably actually foxxcon in china, stamped with a sony logo) and were one of the inventors, hence why I said they are at "cost" they are on the board of directors for blu-ray disc association and probably earn money from patents for each of the uhd br / br drives sold as they are one of the licensors of the tech also per film / game sold:
https://www.one-blue.com/licensors/

Microsoft is probably paying more than Sony per drive and per disc (they quite possibly maybe using Sony drives), so its interesting that Sony are releasing an all digital version and they will probably take a hit on each digital version sold. Manufacturing and printing uhd br discs, boxes and box art cant be cheap, then shipping / handling etc etc.. none of that logistical nonsense to take care of with a digital download. I still prefer to have a uhd br drive though, choice is a great thing,

The Royalties are per patent. Sony has the most patents on the disc themselves, another company has the most patents on the drives (Samsung?) .
There was a documentary on the bluray tech that said that at the time of the ps3 Sony was receiving 1$ per disc pressed and 10$ per drive (reader/burner), those numbers must be a lot lower now.
So Sony pays the licenses like anybody else, but get some money back from the royalties.
MS pays the same licenses, but gets less money back since they only get royalties for the VC-1 codec needed for bluray movies playback.

 

[martino]

Because MS can just snap its fingers and make third parties fall in line.

with the infinity gauntlet they could

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

What if.... the price is the same? I mean, maybe they want sell you the digital model because is prettier and more symmetric?

I'm thinking the same price but include a years PS+ is very possible. Doubling SSD capacity would currently add too much to the retail price so not really cost viable at the start. Although talk of the SSD costing $150 on the BOM is OTT IMO.

I also think having the discless version there from the start gives Sony flexibility if Microsoft get aggressive with price and/or Lockhart is a big success.

 

[vdopey]

The Royalties are per patent. Sony has the most patents on the disc themselves, another company has the most patents on the drives (Samsung?) .
There was a documentary on the bluray tech that said that at the time of the ps3 Sony was receiving 1$ per disc pressed and 10$ per drive (reader/burner), those numbers must be a lot lower now.
So Sony pays the licenses like anybody else, but get some money back from the royalties.
MS pays the same licenses, but gets less money back since they only get royalties for the VC-1 codec needed for bluray movies playback.

that makes sense.

 

[GreatnessRD]

Why do people assume it will be cheaper? I assume same price but comes with more storage.

Maybe something like 1tb standard storage for moving games too and from the SSD to play them

They assume it will be cheaper because its already been confirmed there is no difference between the versions aside the disc drive. So if you take away just the drive itself, it shouldn't be no more than $50-$100 cheaper. Now if Sony wants to whip their dick out and price the models the same, that would be an interesting PR disaster, in my opinion.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Decent video.

The sticking point for me is simple: you don't release an alternative SKU if you believe everyone will buy the original SKU. The disc-version still affords an individual the option of going fully digital - as many did with the PS4. Sony therefore believe there's a reason that people won't buy the base PS5 and are offering an SKU that addresses it. If the hardware is identical - ala, it's not a Lockheart style downgrade box - then the only thing left on the ballot to differentiate the SKUs is price.

So, the price needs to be prohibitive, to justify the digital only console. $599.00 for the base. $499.00 for the digital only.

The PS4 and the PS4 Pro launched at 399$. Considering how the market reacted to a 499$ system with the X1 and the X1X, which was to devalue it straight away, Sony is probably wary of it. The PS3 launch at 599$ was a catastrophe, and it's extremely unlikely for Sony to go a dollar above 500$.

BOM estimates have PS5 at 450, so even after getting them on the shelves they would be making profit at 499$, much like the PS4 which cost them 381$ and was sold for 399$.

Selling the disk version at 599$ would be batshit insane and push the perceived price of the PS5 into PS3 land. It ain't happening. They would a ton of profit though, that's for sure.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The PS4 and the PS4 Pro launched at 399$. Considering how the market reacted to a 499$ system with the X1 and the X1X, which was to devalue it straight away, Sony is probably wary of it. The PS3 launch at 599$ was a catastrophe, and it's extremely unlikely for Sony to go a dollar above 500$.

BOM estimates have PS5 at 450, so even after getting them on the shelves they would be making profit at 499$, much like the PS4 which cost them 381$ and was sold for 399$.

Selling the disk version at 599$ would be batshit insane and push the perceived price of the PS5 into PS3 land. It ain't happening. They would a ton of profit though, that's for sure.

Ps4 was sold at a small loss and selling the ps5 at 500 with a BOM of 450 will still be at loss. BOM doesn't take into account marketing and often, depending on who made the BOM estimate, distribution and retailer margin.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Ps4 was sold at a small loss and selling the ps5 at 500 with a BOM of 450 will still be at loss. BOM doesn't take into account marketing and often, depending on who made the BOM estimate, distribution and retailer margin.

Marketing and R&D aren't factored into the price of the console.

Kazuo Hirai, then CEO, in May 2014 said and I quote "(....)From a profitability perspective, PS4 is also already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses."

 

[acm2000]

They assume it will be cheaper because its already been confirmed there is no difference between the versions aside the disc drive. So if you take away just the drive itself, it shouldn't be no more than $50-$100 cheaper. Now if Sony wants to whip their dick out and price the models the same, that would be an interesting PR disaster, in my opinion.

did they specifically say storage is identical tho?