Digital Foundry - Nvidia DLSS 4 Deep Dive: Ray Reconstruction Upgrades Show Night & Day Improvements
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
fucking hell you beat me to it 
Nvidia is doing witchcraft, holy shit
Nvidia is doing witchcraft, holy shit
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
The upscaler video is the one I'm waiting for the most. He said "soon".
Xdrive05
Member
Yep! So far the only hard info we have on DLSS4 (transformer) super resolution from DF is the performance cost of using it on the different RTX generations:
RTX 5000: 4.0%
RTX 4000: 4.7%
RTX 3000: 6.5%
RTX 2000: 7.9%
That's great results and pretty much in line with what one would expect considering the generational tensor core changes over time. Even on 2000 series, an 8% cost lets you run it in Performance mode for better IQ results than Quality gave you previously, so it will still end up running faster at better IQ even on those.
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mansoor1980
Member
character faces in the old CNN model have that 2d look compared to the new TRANSFORMER model
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
The trend where with every new DLSS version folks finally realize the last wasn't as amazing as they've been saying continues. It's SO awesome. Wait, NOW it's awesome. No wait, NOW it finally fixes the HUGE issues we didn't care for before (also omg @ the lame competition not having it)! Etc. 
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That's not what's happening at all, but you're evidently not interested in anything factual, so have at it.The trend where with every new DLSS version folks finally realize the last wasn't as amazing as they've been saying continues. It's SO awesome. Wait, NOW it's awesome. No wait, NOW it finally fixes the HUGE issues we didn't care for before (also omg @ the lame competition not having it)! Etc.
Xdrive05
Member
I hear you, but I don't think that applies in this case. This is only comparing ray reconstruction, the criticisms of which have been popular since it came out. The analysis for RR was always "Wow. This is great! It also has some quirks that cause issues here, here and here, but still better than not using it." And now the DLSS4 version is "Wow, this is way better than DLSS3 RR, but also here's a couple small regressions here and here." This video doesn't include "not using RR at all" in the comparisons, which if it did, would show you why you want to use even the DLSS3 version in the first place.The trend where with every new DLSS version folks finally realize the last wasn't as amazing as they've been saying continues. It's SO awesome. Wait, NOW it's awesome. No wait, NOW it finally fixes the HUGE issues we didn't care for before (also omg @ the lame competition not having it)! Etc.
For upscaling, all of these can be true at the same time:
1) DLSS4 TM makes DLSS3 look bad now ( a generational leap)
2) DLSS3 is still better than DLSS2 and all other upscaling competition
3) DLSS2 is a generational leap compared to DLSS1
4) DLSS1 sucks
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
The trend where with every new DLSS version folks finally realize the last wasn't as amazing as they've been saying continues. It's SO awesome. Wait, NOW it's awesome. No wait, NOW it finally fixes the HUGE issues we didn't care for before (also omg @ the lame competition not having it)! Etc.
I mean DLSS 4 looks consistently better than native at this point. It's pretty amazing.
Schmendrick
Member
I'd really not want to be the Radeon product manager at AMD right now.
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KuraiShidosha
Member
Looking at that performance chart, I am SO fucking happy I stuck it out with my 1080 Ti and dodged those garbage 20 and 30 series cards to get the 4090 lmao love this beast.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
The trend where with every new DLSS version folks finally realize the last wasn't as amazing as they've been saying continues. It's SO awesome. Wait, NOW it's awesome. No wait, NOW it finally fixes the HUGE issues we didn't care for before (also omg @ the lame competition not having it)! Etc.
And when « before » we had AAA scale graphic showcases with path tracing?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No ray reconstruction can produce a lot more noise though.
zeroluck
Member
I mean DLAA with ray reconstruction.
kevboard
Member
Sheesh, that performance penalty.
yup that checks out. when I tested CP2077 with pathtracing on my 3060ti I dropped from 60+fps down to 39fps with the transformer model ray reconstruction.
while without pathtracing the drop was only a few FPS.
NomenNescio
Dual Sense Edger and Blower
Gosh, Nvidia is so hot right now. Why doesn't Sony partner with them for their console instead of that forgotten 2nd class manufacturer? I mean even the Switch runs Nvidia.
Mr Moose
Member
They aren't very good partners.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
The regression portion of the DF video says that standing still causes weird artifacts. Not a bad trade off for a video game, unless your standing still to stop and smell the roses.
willothedog
Member
they also don't have an x86 licence so it would have to be an ARM APU.
Senua
Member
Didn't notice it while playing Tokyo Xtreme Racer in quality mode.
darrylgorn
Member
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
Reserved
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
grudges don't work in business
Nvidia's and Sony's relationship was rushed and a panic move by Sony
Kutaragi was almost about to launch a Playstation 3 with their internal made GPU, which was greatly underpowered because the fucking madman thought Cell was everything. Internally devs said this would be a massive mistake to launch the console as is. They knocked on Nvidia's door without any time to make anything custom.
If Nintendo can, if Microsoft is buying billions and billions of Nvidia AI, there's no reason to hold a 20 years old story as any indication how it would work out nowadays.
In fact I think one of the two console manufacturers should break away from AMD so that they stop being almost on parity. One with deeper pockets should. Nvidia software is so good and ahead of competition that there's only so much comparison with TFlops and price margin talk can do compared to what is brought to the table.
By the way, what we see here is still beta. Nvidia sees a lot more improvement coming with this new model.
winjer
Member
Sheesh, that performance penalty.
That shows there was a huge improvement from ampere to ada, in regards to tensor units.
But very little with other generations.
Insane Metal
Member
So how's this stuff compared to the king, PSSR?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
What's a king to a god?
darrylgorn
Member
So I have to properly digest this on my monitor but we're definitely veering into 'can look shittier but more realistic' territory.
Personally, if stylization and dryer skin looks better than the real thing, I'll take the former.
Personally, if stylization and dryer skin looks better than the real thing, I'll take the former.
Mr Moose
Member
EVGA.
cormack12
Gold Member
Crazy times - living in an age where PC gamers are advocating for poor initial renders and then repair/reconstruct the image, and pad it out with fake frames.
This would be unthinkable to the OGs. And yeah, I think the same about PSSR and FSR too.
I guess ultimately what it shows is that the true /pcmr needs are the tinest portion of the userbase (which is good I guess), and most 'enthusiasts' are really not that bothered and have an equivalence of physical blu ray to streaming quality.
This would be unthinkable to the OGs. And yeah, I think the same about PSSR and FSR too.
I guess ultimately what it shows is that the true /pcmr needs are the tinest portion of the userbase (which is good I guess), and most 'enthusiasts' are really not that bothered and have an equivalence of physical blu ray to streaming quality.
peish
Member
Sheesh, that performance penalty.
4090 performing better than 5090. Those hardware optical flow accelarators are real deal. So Nvidia kinda BS their way about removing them for 5090
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I'm reading that as a comparison of each GPU to itself using the different methods, rather than against each other, so I imagine 5090's so called 93% performance is still overall better than the 4090 result. Unless another chart actually comparing them in absolute numbers shows otherwise.
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peish
Member
I mean % performance drops when you use DLSS4.
4090 has less % drops, i think because it has the optical flow hardware, just wild speculation.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Oh yeah, an AIB that threw a whole division under the bus because some old man didn't like to wait for final MSRP and didn't even bother to go AMD to save jobs is totally down to earth and totally points to Nvidia being unreasonable here
You think AIBs like to make a booth at CES to showcase a new AMD card, by all means even the press was pre-briefed that RDNA 4 news would drop at the conference with even some slides on it presented to them and then have AMD cancel announcement? They're stuck on the floor with a card they cannot even talk about, nor say a price?
The cards that will sit in warehouses for 2 months because AMD shifts launch?
If we talk about AIB fuckery, there's a reason EVGA didn't even bother to knock at AMD's door.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
How do you propose to play videogames at 4k? A 5090 can't do it without upscaling.
kevboard
Member
TAA already does this and does it often poorly. DLSS does it better in many cases.
so you have 2 choices. TAA or DLSS... TAA is native res and shit, DLSS saves performance and is superior but not perfect while being sub-native
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James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Nice subtle improvements. Night and day difference, it is not. You can barely tell in the video footage and he has to zoom in massively to show it off. Ok Alex. It's also not without drawbacks, the new model looks worse in areas.
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lol its what, batusta the nvidia shill, is there for.
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SKYF@ll
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It's funny how this is patently incorrect and they talk about the flaws every single time, just like in this video, but sure, let's go with this narrative.
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Bojji
Member
It was pretty much always true. DLSS2 won with native TAA in some games all other reconstruction tech at the time. DLSS3.5-3.8 wins with TAA in many games and all other ML and reconstruction tech (PSSR, XeSS, TSR, FSR, TAAU etc.).
Now tranformer model wins with 3.8 CNN model. Nvidia is competing with themselves at this point...
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