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[speedpop]

This entire issue has been ridiculously childish and dramatic.

 

[Shiggy]

This is Epic's revenge for Silicon Knights' lawsuit

 

[LCGeek]

If true, this is interesting. It highlights one thing I've been toying with in the back of my mind:

Are software 'platforms' now more important than hardware platforms? Certainly I can see an argument that UE3's accessibility was a big driver of development for the HD platforms, but it was still built to the specs that were known and planned for the followup consoles. Compare and contrast with UE4; it appears that that's being built *first*, and then pushing console manufacturers to build their systems to that *spec*. That's a very different approach to development, and a brave one; I'm not convinced it's healthy for the industry, but I'll wait and see.

The question I have, though, is for the average third party, what's the motivation to develop for UE4 over UE3? At the moment I don't see it - but it's easy to say that given that currently, there's no hardware that supports it.

One potential risk with that plan for Epic is that it's dependent on the hardware platforms that buy into the UE4 spec having a sufficiently large market to provoke development on that engine. That's how they'll convince the average third party to buy into the new version, but at the moment the hardware developers hold the cards, and need to look closely at what's best for them - embracing UE4 and running the risk of being the only one of the three who does so, with an accordingly reduced install base and therefore market, or dialling back the spec somewhat and risking being ignored by devs who do go all-in on UE4's power.

On top of that, if we do accept the idea of Unreal-as-a-platform - take a look at the Dyack lawsuit. Whether valid or not, that's a disgruntled third party using that platform. It's a fairly isolated case, but it's something Epic will have to be wary of in the future - what they don't want is to become 1990's era Nintendo when it comes to handling third parties, because that's leaving things open for a competitor to swoop in and entice them away.


... but that's all 'if true'. Those comments were a while back.

It's a mixture you need hardware but with the jumps we have seen vs what the public tolerates it's about getting what you want out of the system. I still remember john carmack at a quake con a few years ago stressing that you need both for a truly captivating look. Regardless of tech if you art sucks it will never matter but if you art is limited by tech you are basically in the same boat. Tech can make up for art but good can tech never make up for a lack of great art. Machines simply aren't as creative as we are and it will be that way for sometime.

 

[Donnie]

The demo at GDC won't run on WiiU no, the engine will eventually. Well see UE4 on any device with a modern feature set including mobile phones. "Power" isn't relevant.

 

[GhostTrick]

I don't see where he said it won't run on Wii U.
He just said that Mike Capps said UE3 at GDC, while they were under NDA.

 

[MRORANGE]

it will still sell.

 

[AzaK]

Well if this ends up being true it's a bit shithouse. Whether UE4 can downport to UE3 easily enough though is another question.

 

[Roq12]

Is anyone actually suprised?

 

[GhostTrick]

Is anyone actually suprised?

I'm actually surprised that people took this as truth.

 

[MrCunningham]

i laugh at the multiple "nintendo still doesn't get it" posts. nintendo can't afford throwing away billions of dollars like sony and microsoft did with the ps360.

Sony has already proven that they cannot afford to lose billions of dollars over a console either. They are already bleeding out too much money as it is on a whole.

But I think Nintendo gets that spending billions on R&D and selling a console at a loss is not in the company's better interest. That's the model they go by when they develop new hardware. It's pretty simple, really.

Microsoft still has a monopoly on the home computer desktop market. That alone is more than enough to keep them funded for years to come. So they can afford to spend a lot of money on R&D and sell a console at a loss, if they wanted to. They can recoup the costs.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Ha drama!

I think its disappointing news personally, I too hoped it would scale down, but in the scheme of things its not going to matter for 1-2 years, or half a generation basically... Unless one of the other two finishes their console early, has met Epic's spec wishes, and epic ship the engine early. There will still be a lot of UE3 games next gen imo, Epic's job is to try and convince them to pony up the money for v4. It'll be interesting to see the demos for UE4 to frame this whole debate a little better.

 

[GreggTheGrimReaper]

We basically all knew that it will not be a powerhouse, it would have been nice if it was otherwise but I'll buy the Wii U for the software and not for the hardware. One fine day we will be playing Mario in Pixar quality visuals, it might just not happen the coming generation.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

not too bad no one is going to being running off to UE4 so immediately

Well yeah, but if UE4 is anything like as ubiquitous as UE3, then they are in big trouble.
Imagine if a console this gen couldn't run UE3, imagine all the games they'd have to miss out on.

 

[Mickdundee96]

The Samaritan demo wasn't Unreal 4, but if the WiiU can get near that I'll be happy enough.

 

[TerryWogan]

Well yeah, but if UE4 is anything like as ubiquitous as UE3, then they are in big trouble.
Imagine if a console this gen couldn't run UE3, imagine all the games they'd have to miss out on.

Like the Wii, you mean?

The Samaritan demo wasn't Unreal 4, but if the WiiU can get near that I'll be happy enough.

The tech demo that barely runs on top tier PC hardware? Yeah, you're not going to be happy.

 

[AzaK]

Well yeah, but if UE4 is anything like as ubiquitous as UE3, then they are in big trouble.
Imagine if a console this gen couldn't run UE3, imagine all the games they'd have to miss out on.

Yeah, if only there was a console like that to learn from.....

 

[rezuth]

People thought Wii U was powerful enough to run UE4?
lol

Of course it can run UE4 anything else is rubbish. The question is more of how much has to be sacrificed when doing so if anything at all. They could just be talking about the tech demos and it be a misunderstanding, not that I think so but anything is possible with Geoff.

 

[maquiladora]

This isn't really that shocking. Didn't Epic say that UE4 was intended for consoles that hadn't been announced yet?

 

[_Alkaline_]

E3 really needs to get here sooner.

 

[Thrakier]

Well, at this point it should be pretty clear that Nintendo is pulling of another Wii. They don't even hide it. It's named WiiU. It's currentgen tech. If you are surprised by that I don't know what to say.

 

[LCGeek]

This isn't really that shocking. Didn't Epic say that UE4 was intended for consoles that hadn't been announced yet?

Most of us didn't apply it to WiiU since it was technically announced.

 

[Visualante2]

Is Epic a real dictatorial force? Say they discontinued support for new UE3 licensees, and shifted focus to UE4. Would that turn people off UE3? Part of me thinks teams are experienced enough with the platform to churn out UE3. But I don't know how reliant they are on Epic for support on a day to day basis.

 

[mclem]

why is 'love never dies' the google ad i'm seeing for this page?

A story about something cursed with ugliness still being able to create things that are beautiful, but suffering from people not being able to see past the ugliness? Can't think why.

 

[Ushojax]

It will be fascinating to see how the new Xbox/PlayStation are priced if they go for power again. They'll have to take a serious hit on them because consumers will not pay silly prices for gaming hardware any more. Vita has already been an unmitigated disaster, they would be foolish to ignore that warning just because Epic has a new engine to pimp.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well, at this point it should be pretty clear that Nintendo is pulling of another Wii. They don't even hide it. It's named WiiU. It's currentgen tech. If you are surprised by that I don't know what to say.

I don't know which part is the most trolling.

 

[Visualante2]

I don't know which part is the most trolling.

Your hypocritical response?

 

[AzaK]

I don't know which part is the most trolling.

The words.

 

[mclem]

So you expect 3rd party companies to make 2 versions of the same game? One in UE3 and another in UE4.

As a third party, in that situation, I'd ask myself "So why not just make the UE3 version and be done with it and be supported on every major platform?" - and that'll depend on whether the third party is in a position to push tech viably or needs to consolidate and keep the bottom line safe.

 

[Raide]

It will be fascinating to see how the new Xbox/PlayStation are priced if they go for power again. They'll have to take a serious hit on them because consumers will not pay silly prices for gaming hardware any more. Vita has already been an unmitigated disaster, they would be foolish to ignore that warning just because Epic has a new engine to pimp.

Well, if MS's recent idea of getting people to pay for a 360 in instalments, they will probably add this to the 720. The hardcore gamer can and will buy it at 399/499. They can subsidise the 720 that way.

As a third party, in that situation, I'd ask myself "So why not just make the UE3 version and be done with it and be supported on every major platform?" - and that'll depend on whether the third party is in a position to push tech viably or needs to consolidate and keep the bottom line safe.

At some point Developers have to jump into latest engines, else they can gradually end up behind other Developers. We can already see this big race with Epic, Crytek, Dice etc, trying to prove who has the best engine but it usually ends up being Epic that becomes the industry standard. We will see.

 

[GhostTrick]

Your hypocritical response?

In what way ? Because I said that they were still under NDA ?
Yeah so..."hypocritical"

 

[maquiladora]

Most of us didn't apply it to WiiU since it was technically announced.

Thats what I mean...

Geoff's comments shouldn't be surprising then.

 

[Calibur]

This thread already has as many posts as the Havok one. lol

What was the Havok one about?

 

[Exterminieren]

Well, at this point it should be pretty clear that Nintendo is pulling of another Wii. They don't even hide it. It's named WiiU. It's currentgen tech. If you are surprised by that I don't know what to say.

The Wii was THE brand of this generation. Even if the WiiU turned out to be some hardcore megabeast, Nintendo was not going to throw the cache that the brand had built up with the public.

What was the Havok one about?

Nintendo is providing Havok physics free of charge to any WiiU developer.

 

[Orayn]

This entire issue has been ridiculously childish and dramatic.

Which is kind of the expected response for something that TRUE HARDCORE GAMERS® care about. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[Haunted]

Nintendo better hope Cryengine becomes the prevalent middleware of the next generation or the third party support from major publishers will be abysmal. Again.

 

[Eusis]

Nintendo better hope Cryengine becomes the prevalent middleware of the next generation or the third party support from major publishers will be abysmal. Again.

Could always be continuing to use the stuff from now, or something else entirely rises to prominence.

Spoiler

Like GameBryo.

Edit: Though I do think that depending on how close the systems are, and if UE4 IS arbitrarily blocked off from Wii U rather than it simply being incapable like Wii, it could easily bite Epic in the ass. Assuming that "no Wii U support" holds true, ofcourse, otherwise this is completely moot.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

it will still sell.

Cute. That sure worked out well for GameCube. But Nintendo will still make money on it so it's a moot point.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Nintendo better hope Cryengine becomes the prevalent middleware of the next generation or the third party support from major publishers will be abysmal. Again.

It's totally on Nintendo how much this will matter. In one year a competing platform will launch, and 1-2 years from now the first UE4 games will begin appearing. They have 1-2 years to make their platform irrefutably popular.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Who was expecting it to run on Wii U anyway?

Since all indications point out that Wii U will be roughly as powerful as PS360 - maybe more, maybe less - UE4 won't obviously run on it.

 

[Majine]

I can't wait for Spikes exlusive news to leak so we can have the "GEOFF AM CRY" threadline return.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Who was expecting it to run on Wii U anyway?

Since all indications point out that Wii U will be roughly as powerful as PS360 - maybe more, maybe less[/IMG] - UE4 won't obviously run on it.

*shakes and nods head disapprovingly / approvingly*
*basically making a circle with my head*

 

[maquiladora]

Posters in the Wii U speculation thread say its scalable and wii u can run it at low settings. I'll believe them over Mike Capps.

Not sure if...

 

[Nibel]

Mark Rein: "Wii U won't be able to run our next big engine which will redefine gaming. But Unreal Engine 4 will be able to run Wii U itself. Water, meet beach."

 

[Orayn]

Who was expecting it to run on Wii U anyway?

Since all indications point out that Wii U will be roughly as powerful as PS360 - maybe more, maybe less - UE4 won't obviously run on it.

All indications don't point out that since we have reputable sources saying otherwise, but you can continue to believe it if you like. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Am I reading the right thing as everyone else or are you guys just reading the topic title and calling it a day?

Geoff basically answered the question posed and said "no" he cant talk about it. Topic title is such a twist.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Well, at this point it should be pretty clear that Nintendo is pulling of another Wii. They don't even hide it. It's named WiiU. It's currentgen tech. If you are surprised by that I don't know what to say.

Please keep an open mind. There is still a lot more to learn!

 

[M°°nblade]

Could always be continuing to use the stuff from now, or something else entirely rises to prominence.

Spoiler

Like GameBryo.

Edit: Though I do think that depending on how close the systems are, and if UE4 IS arbitrarily blocked off from Wii U rather than it simply being incapable like Wii, it could easily bite Epic in the ass. Assuming that "no Wii U support" holds true, ofcourse, otherwise this is completely moot.

Epic will probably optimize their UE3.9b or something for the WiiU hardware so I doubt it will bite them in the ass.

The only situation which would be troublesome for Epic is:
a. Wii U somehow becoming a relevant console for traditional core games sales making WiiU-PS4720 multiplatform releases a must
b. Other engine vendors somehow being able to provide scalable engines without sacrificing visuals on next-gen hardware.

Both are pretty unlikely though.

 

[Thrakier]

I don't know which part is the most trolling.

I don't know how this is supposed to be trolling. Nintendo this gen succeded by selling currentgen tech for a relatively high price by making the controller the USP. I don't see the reason why they should leave this formula alone and so far nothing that has been said and shown makes me believe that Nintendo will differ from the way they chose with the Wii. I don't expect the WiiU to even meet the graphical quality of nowgen PC gaming (meaning very high res with FSAA @60FPS and new technology like Ambient Occlusion etc.). I expect it to be slightly better than PS3/360, exactly like the Wii was slightly better than PS2/XBOX/Cube (well...we know how that turned out I guess).

 

[bjb]

This is really killing my motivation to buy one and have it set in my cabinet to collect dust.

Kinda like my Wii has been doing for a year now.

 

[GhostTrick]

I don't know how this is supposed to be trolling. Nintendo this gen succeded by selling currentgen tech for a relatively high price by making the controller the USP. I don't see the reason why they should leave this formula alone and so far nothing that has been said and shown makes me believe that Nintendo will differ from the way they chose with the Wii. I don't expect the WiiU to even meet the graphical quality of nowgen PC gaming (meaning very high res with FSAA @60FPS and new technology like Ambient Occlusion etc.). I expect it to be slightly better than PS3/360, exactly like the Wii was slightly better than PS2/XBOX/Cube (well...we know how that turned out I guess).

I don't see how you could say Nintendo is "pulling another Wii" or "current gen tech".