Support NeoGAF

[ManaByte]

‘Avengers’ Directors Say Marvel’s Recent Problems Aren’t Due to Superhero Fatigue but a ‘Big Generational Divide About How You Consume Media’

"Avengers" directors Joe and Anthony Russo say recent Marvel flops are not because of superhero fatigue but due to a "generational divide."

variety.com

“I think it’s a reflection of the current state of everything. It’s difficult right now, it’s an interesting time,” Joe Russo said. “I think we’re in a transitional period and people don’t know quite yet how they’re going to receive stories moving forward, or what kinds of stories they’re going to want.”

“There’s a big generational divide about how you consume media,” he continued. “There’s a generation that’s used to appointment viewing and going to a theater on a certain date to see something, but it’s aging out. Meanwhile the new generation are ‘I want it now, I want to process it now’, then moving onto the next thing, which they process whilst doing two other things at the same time. You know, it’s a very different moment in time than it’s ever been. And so I think everyone, including Marvel, is experiencing the same thing, this transition. And I think that really is probably what’s at play more than anything else.”

Joe Russo noted that the new generation of moviegoers communicates largely though “memes and headlines with nobody reading past two sentences, so everything’s 100 characters or less – or 10-second videos on social media you swipe through.”

“I think that the two-hour format, the structure that goes into making a movie, it’s over a century old now and everything always transitions,” he added. “So, there is something happening again and that form is repetitive. But it’s hard to reinvent that form and I think this next generation is looking for ways to tell their own stories that service their own sort of collective ADHD.”

“The superhero fatigue question was around long before the work we were doing,” Anthony continued. “So, it’s sort of an eternal complaint, like we always used to cite this back in our early days with superhero work. People used to complain about westerns in the same way but they lasted for decades and decades and decades. They were continually reinvented and brought to new heights as they went on.”

I have not been to a theater in 2024 and don't plan to. Deadpool is tempting, but I don't really care to go spend $30 to sit in a theater when I can just wait and watch it at home 45 days later.

 

[Skyfox]

Release the movies on twitch so. Add some advertisements or make it pay per view but people want the social simultaneous side back. (That means with the chat ON morons)

 

[TGO]

No it's because Disney gone Woked it up.
Putting stuff on Disney Plus didn't help them either with pirates having access to the 4k HDR Dolby Atmos version on day one...
Dumb Fucks

 

[Skyfox]

It’s be cool if they’d let people release their own edits of the movie for licenced users to watch.

I tweeted the studio for aquaman 2 a couple of years ago telling them to release two versions of the movie. One with, and one without Amber heard so people could decide for themselves.

 

[DeafTourette]

No it's because Disney gone Woked it up.
Putting stuff on Disney Plus didn't help them either with pirates having access to the 4k HDR Dolby Atmos version on day one...
Dumb Fucks

I still think that's the dumbest take for their current woes...

they made and released too much too fast... It's good they're slowing down with fewer projects going forward.

 

[ManaByte]

I tweeted the studio for aquaman 2 a couple of years ago telling them to release two versions of the movie. One with, and one without Amber heard so people could decide for themselves.

Amber Heard wasn't the problem with that. Remaking Superman IV was.

 

[TGO]

I still think that's the dumbest take for their current woes...

they made and released too much too fast... It's good they're slowing down with fewer projects going forward.

To an extent I agree but would have really been that bad if the stuff they released was actually good?

 

[bitbydeath]

I still think that's the dumbest take for their current woes...

they made and released too much too fast... It's good they're slowing down with fewer projects going forward.

I’d say they introduced too many new characters at once. Having constant character introductions just feels messy. Should have had 2-3 new ones tops, and focused on existing ones.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

they made and released too much too fast... It's good they're slowing down with fewer projects going forward.

Agree, they absolutely saturated the market. I used to look forward to superhero movies, that wore off when there was no downtime between releases at all.

That, plus the interconnected universe and the B-tier cast of characters.

Hopefully they'll be keen to make each release count in the future.

 

[DKehoe]

Guys now who now exclusively make films for a streaming platform think that streaming platforms are the future of the medium.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Doesn’t paint a very nice picture of society. Also, it shows that they were trying to sell their content to the wrong demographic.

 

[Trunx81]

Youth just doesn’t understand She-Hulk twerking.

 

[MayauMiao]

They are still in denial with their wokeness.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

So, how do you tell a story in 10 second clips? Or do you plan each scene around a mimetic moment that will get a lot of likes on Insta? Sounds awful.

 

[DKehoe]

So, how do you tell a story in 10 second clips? Or do you plan each scene around a mimetic moment that will get a lot of likes on Insta? Sounds awful.

Quibi 2.0

 

[nush]

It’s be cool if they’d let people release their own edits of the movie for licenced users to watch.

I tweeted the studio for aquaman 2 a couple of years ago telling them to release two versions of the movie. One with, and one without Amber heard so people could decide for themselves.

I’m surprised your not on the board already.

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

Youth just doesn’t understand She-Hulk twerking.

 

[Pejo]

Cigarette companies say "smoking isn't THAT bad for you".

 

[Fbh]

It's not that good anymore, there's way too much of it and it's becoming increasingly hard to keep up. I don't think it's that complex.
End Game was the culmination of what they had been building towards for a long time with characters that most people really liked.
The current MCU is like the Boruto or Legend of Korra equivalent to the original MCU storyline. It's that blander attempt at a "next generation" that just doesn't hit the same as the original.

Our local MCU defense force will argue that people totally like Shang Chi as much as Iron Man and the Immortals of Aveum or whatever they were called are just as good as the Guardians of the Galaxy, but it's just not true.

 

[gothmog]

MCU for the first 10 years worked because they pioneered world building by using post credit scenes. The first few years of movies weren't even that good but you could tell there was something building that was interesting.

I'd love to see them try to revamp how they present the MCU to new generations

 

[Ownage]

Who gives a shit about the young generations and what they think. That's merely an excuse for their marketing and planning failures.

Make good movies.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Excuses excuses, what i am hearing is that its a quality issue.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

As someone who would be in the comic shop every Wednesday for new releases and who attends small comic shows in dusty Knights of Columbus halls on Sundays to scavenge for deals on old books... Marvel and DC combined to oversaturate the cinematic space to the point that there isn't a single (non-Battinson) movie they could make that I would care about.

The movies are dull, they don't look good anymore, most of them are too long, most evaporate from memory as soon as you leave the theater, and there's just too many of them.

It was somewhere in the middle of the bore-fest that was Doctor Strange 2 that I knew I had seen enough. If they killed even my interest as a comic enthusiast, I'm not sure what it will take to bring back the casuals.

I think in general that the 2.5 hour superhero CGI-fest "dumb fun" movies with nothing to say are going to struggle for the foreseeable future. We'll see if James Gunn can shift the paradigm at DC but I have my doubts.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

As someone who would be in the comic shop every Wednesday for new releases and who attends small comic shows in dusty Knights of Columbus halls on Sundays to scavenge for deals on old books... Marvel and DC combined to oversaturate the cinematic space to the point that there isn't a single (non-Battinson) movie they could make that I would care about.

The movies are dull, they don't look good anymore, most of them are too long, most evaporate from memory as soon as you leave the theater, and there's just too many of them.

It was somewhere in the middle of the bore-fest that was Doctor Strange 2 that I knew I had seen enough. If they killed even my interest as a comic enthusiast, I'm not sure what it will take to bring back the casuals.

I think in general that the 2.5 hour superhero CGI-fest "dumb fun" movies with nothing to say are going to struggle for the foreseeable future. We'll see if James Gunn can shift the paradigm at DC but I have my doubts.

This.

James has a herculean task at DC but interest for the new Superman is pretty low for me as you've said the market has become saturated with CGI superhero fuck fests. Just the other day I came across a Black Adam clip on Youtube and it was nasea inducing. I've only seen that trash pile once in Cinema. You couldn't pay me to watch it again.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I still think that's the dumbest take for their current woes...

they made and released too much too fast... It's good they're slowing down with fewer projects going forward.

No one would have an issue if it was well written. It isn't.

It is slacktivist/DEI driven trash by and large. No one wants to be preached to or lectured.

 

[Sonik]

 

[TheAtomicPile]

This.

James has a herculean task at DC but interest for the new Superman is pretty low for me as you've said the market has become saturated with CGI superhero fuck fests. Just the other day I came across a Black Adam clip on Youtube and it was nasea inducing. I've only seen that trash pile once in Cinema. You couldn't pay me to watch it again.

Right and it's sad because I'm an unapologetic Superman fan and I want it to do well. I just can't see how it actually will in the current climate though.

 

[DeafTourette]

To an extent I agree but would have really been that bad if the stuff they released was actually good?

That's my point. They didn't have time for Q&A to make sure the scripts were up to snuff. Nothing was approved directly by Feige it seems when we had stuff like Winter Soldier and Infinity War. Gunn had Feige's trust he could do quality, and he did.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I have a slight feeling that when Warhammer 40,000 comes out it will be the next big thing when the streaming series comes out.

BUT that honestly has me very worried. When something niche like that goes mainstream, you know what happens. Fact you can already see it happening.

 

[TransTrender]

It's a low quality product.

 

[Mihos]

They released some lower quality stuff and got lower quality results. I will consume comics until I die, but if something sucks, do better

 

[Blade2.0]

It's because they don't make good movies right now. They made the winter soldier that was awesome and then every movie after that had to follow the exact same formula and tone. Say what you will about the DCEU(I do because it mostly sucked) but they at least allowed for more creative control from their directors, and they also weren't afraid to make films that weren't a part of the expanded universe and it's how we got the joker and the Batman. Two great films.

But, yea, take Ant-Man. If you wanted to actually make Kang a threatening villain, don't kill off the "supposedly" strongest variant of his character in the opening act of the story. Quantumania shouldn't have been a fun time through the microverse. It should have been a no holds barred fight for survival on Ant-Man and family. Make it something akin to Predator. Kang stalking them trying to get out of the microverse and then they barely get out together. Now that would have set up for a formidable villain. Instead we get a national lampoons vacation but with a limp-dicked villain that can't even win against, arguably, one of the weakest of the avengers.

 

[jason10mm]

That, plus the interconnected universe and the B-tier cast of characters.

B-tier was Ironman, Thor, and arguably Captain America. Most of them were C-tier, like Antman, Vision, Dr. Strange, etc. The only A tier they had in mid 2000s was Spidey and some xmen, maybe Hulk.

Now they are down to D tier at best, even F tier with shit like Ms. Marvel and She-hulk or the Eternals. No one gives a shit.

A true visionary can cast well and make obscure characters great but anything goes even slightly awry and a mediocre cook ruins the soup. We are seeing dreadful casting, tepid visuals, narrative boredom, and bland directing. No one at marvel gives a shit anymore.

 

[DeafTourette]

No one would have an issue if it was well written. It isn't.

It is slacktivist/DEI driven trash by and large. No one wants to be preached to or lectured.

What exactly are they preaching? It can be argued Steve Rogers was preaching all the time .. especially in Winter Soldier.

Edit: and what's DEI got to do with this? More minorities? Women? There's like 1 gay character...

 

[bender]

The problem is that they made dozens if not hundreds of movies/TV shoes and never once reached the highs of Tank Girl and modern audiences finally got sick of them trying.

 

[DeafTourette]

The problem is that they made dozens if not hundreds of movies/TV shoes and never once reached the highs of Tank Girl and modern audiences finally got sick of them trying.

Who made "dozens if not hundreds"?

 

[bender]

Who made "dozens if not hundreds"?

Talentless hacks.

 

[DeafTourette]

Talentless hacks.

Oh. That's a lot of the industry.

 

[EekTheKat]

I think to some extent the MCU has become incomprehensible to new viewers/fans. You need Disney Plus and to have watched one or two TV series and/or movies from 3 or 4 years ago for the new MCU movie to make any sense. TV shows and movies often written by different writers who have no idea what the other writer wrote.

Having to explain to friends that are new to the MCU what they're about to see before the movie and what they just saw after the movie is a quick way to lose those friend's interest in the MCU.

 

[Coconutt]

Wow so much denial, bring up movies like barbie or super Mario or oppenhiemer which made close to or met 1 billion in revenue and they have no explanation.

 

[Scotty W]

I used to watch them all, now I watch none. No rationalization can get rid of that one ineradicable fact.

 

[T-0800]

The story ended and then they decided to just keep on going. I lost interest.

 

[DeafTourette]

The story ended and then they decided to just keep on going. I lost interest.

They're doing what they do in the comics and manga. One event ends, another begins. It's never the end.

 

[Kenpachii]

Low quality
Woke garbage
Never ending

Pick your poison.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol what a bunch of retards. Avatar just made $2.5 billion just two years after the covid lockdowns. Top gun too.

If you make made for TV trash like they do nowadays for Netflix then no one is going to watch them for more than a few minutes. That’s why they are made for TV.

Dune just came out and made an insane amount of money. Oppenheimer and barbie made a billion each. Make a movie people want to watch and they will watch it.

A lot of the Disney marvel trash is just that, trash.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

What exactly are they preaching? It can be argued Steve Rogers was preaching all the time .. especially in Winter Soldier.

Edit: and what's DEI got to do with this? More minorities? Women? There's like 1 gay character...

Seriously there's so much preachy stuff especially in Phase 4

The Falcon And The Winter Soldier
Black Widow
She Hulk
Thor Love And Thunder (This one I'm particularly salty about, love that storyline in the Thor Comics)

Those are off the top of my head though

Not to mention I don't find any of the Marvel Animation Output to be good. Sorry I find X-Men 97 boring and just Nostalgia Berries

As for Minorities, females and LGTB being shown in entertainment. With current year they are usually terrible written and preachy as fuck. A good example of this is Sam Wilson being exactly that in The Falcon And The Winter Solder.

Not to mention there's so much of it too



His character was used as a mouthpiece. I was rolling my eyes at the do better speech at the last episode of that show. Not to mention that for some reason the cops stop him and they don't recognize him.



And it's a shame that show has some great stuff in it. If it didn't have that Woke shit in it, it would be an A at least for me. It's an F Grade due to the woke crap

Didn't happen before during Phase 1 - 3?

Yes there's that one scene in The Winter Soldier but it is much better written and not preachy at all

And yes I hate DEI, always comes off as pretentous drivel

The reason why companies like Sweet Baby Inc are getting deserved blowback is because they try to scare these entertainment companies into doing the whole DEI shit. That stuff sucks man.

Also sex sells, I think that the MCU should start to do sexy fanservice that are aimed at straight guys. Not only just fanservice aimed at women

They're doing what they do in the comics and manga. One event ends, another begins. It's never the end.

Except with Manga 99 Percent of the time, there's a beginning, middle and end. With Comics they are just ongoing and confusing when it comes to where to start reading

My Hero Academia yes is a Superhero manga but it is in it's Final Arc. At least it's ending on a good note

 

[CGNoire]

Guys now who now exclusively make films for a streaming platform think that streaming platforms are the future of the medium.

This. There gonna become hacks now it seems. Pitty.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Normies also REALLY don't like successor characters. A different character taking up the mantle annoys the fuck out of them.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Wow so much denial, bring up movies like barbie or super Mario or oppenhiemer which made close to or met 1 billion in revenue and they have no explanation.

Yep agreed there. It's funny to watch really

Normies also REALLY don't like successor characters. A different character taking up the mantle annoys the fuck out of them.

Which is a good thing

Either retire the character for awhile or just recast. And by recast, they have to look exactly what the character would look like before. For example, I would be fine if Tom Cruise was the recast for Tony Stark/Iron Man

 

[DeafTourette]

His character was used as a mouthpiece. I was rolling my eyes at the do better speech at the last episode of that show. Not to mention that for some reason the cops stop him and they don't recognize him.

Spoiler

It happens... There have been numerous incidents with police and famous black sports figures (collegiate and professional) at traffic stops with no wrongdoing by the athlete, yet being harassed.