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10+ Dead in White-supremacy motivated massacre in Buffalo, NY.

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Ya'll race relations need to settle down.
I wouldn't be surprised if race relations are at their absolute worst point in maybe 30 years, or even more.

The divisions -- which only seem to be escalating on a daily basis -- go much deeper than race though. So many senseless crimes in the recent past have been ideologically motivated.

RIP to the victims of this horrible tragedy. I honestly wish this dude was being tried in a State with the death penalty so he could be put out swiftly. No need to keep societal garbage like him around for any reason.
 

Tams

Member
Yo, 'Merica.

I know many of you live your guns and stuff (I get it, they're fun to fire), but your gun culture is completely fucked up. 'But I use one responsibly' may well be true, but just adds to the problem.

So there are two options:

1. Banned most firearms and have stringent licences for those that are allowed.
2. Invest a lot into education about firearms. This'd likely have yo go along with conscription to pretty much force every to be educated about how, why, and when to use them. See Finland, Singapore, Taiwan.

Or just do nothing I guess. It'll line some people's pockets...
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
I disagree with everything you've said in your two posts. I'm not interested in turning a news & mourning thread into a political debate about your perceptions so I'll leave it at that.
Fair enough if you don't think the current state of racial discourse at both a societal and institutional level and also how its presented in the media does not contribute to the emotions around different racial groups, increase tensions and encourage more racists to do bad things. 👍🏼
 
Certainly not blame. But point out the current state of discourse on such issues has fractured an already troubled society which certainly does not help the situation. With the likely outcome being angrier people on both sides of the spectrum with distorted patterns of thinking looking to commit horrible acts of terror.

What brings about racial supremacists and does the current state of the culture and discourse contribute to their distorted beliefs - is what may need to be tackled to get closer to the root of the problem.
Yeah I mean if you hear/read/see in media everyday that your gender, race, and sexual orientation is evil and the main cause of the country's problems it would certainly fuck with someone who isn't stable. I mean there is a reason why white males are killing themselves in record numbers. Low self-respect, self-worth, constantly being villainized by people on social media and main stream media for years will lead to resentment.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Of course he was caught alive.

And of course he's a right wing nutjob who listened to to much Tucker Carlson.

What does Tucker Carlson have to do with this?

NY is a shit hole right now. I live in Rochester… shootings happen DAILY … the difference is it’s usually Black on Black shootings in bad neighborhoods and just about everyone is linked to laws which let violent criminals go free and bring in even more violent criminals as there are little consequence.

In these bad neighborhoods they don’t even try to hide it anymore. Stray bullets hitting peoples homes and churches as shootings happen openly in the street.

It’s a major issue right now. So yes this guy is lower than scum and should be locked up for life but don’t act like shootings and death is something new and caused by some outside force. It’s always been here and has been fueled by idiotic new laws and social views on criminals.

For every person this guy has shot no less than 10 more were killed in the last 4 months to no fanfare or idiotic political propaganda.
 
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Yo, 'Merica.

I know many of you live your guns and stuff (I get it, they're fun to fire), but your gun culture is completely fucked up. 'But I use one responsibly' may well be true, but just adds to the problem.

So there are two options:

1. Banned most firearms and have stringent licences for those that are allowed.
2. Invest a lot into education about firearms. This'd likely have yo go along with conscription to pretty much force every to be educated about how, why, and when to use them. See Finland, Singapore, Taiwan.

Or just do nothing I guess. It'll line some people's pockets...
As an American, I agree with you. Both options are good and a mix of them would go a long way.

One thing I see people quickly jumping to is "ban guns, period!" Uhhhh, no. The Second Amendment is a thing. Besides, some of the places that have the highest rates of gun violence are also some of the places with the highest forms of gun control.

Fair enough if you don't think the current state of racial discourse at both a societal and institutional level and also how its presented in the media does not contribute to the emotions around different racial groups, increase tensions and encourage more racists to do bad things. 👍🏼
I 100% agree with you.

This is a horrible tragedy and our first duty as fellow citizens is to pay respects to the victims and condemn the attacker.

BUT -- we can "walk and chew gum at the same time" as the colloquial expression goes. So we can pay respects to the victims, condemn the attacker, AND do other things -- like reflect/analyze why this is happening, what it says about our society, and what we might be able to do about it. And I agree with your assessment (which others in this thread have also agreed with).

EDIT: see RoboFu RoboFu 's post above, it's almost spot on.
 
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Is there any info on why he chose Buffalo NY? I read he was from another county in NY but NY is a large state, I’m curious why he chose Buffalo to do this.

Also curious if he was ever on an FBI watch list at any time.

I guess more will come in the coming days and weeks. RIP to all the victims.
I'm curious as well. I thought maybe he was a student up here. My far fetched assumption is, Buffalo is the second biggest city in the state. Democratic Black mayor, large black population. The area he hit is rough but has good people therein, like any neighborhood. Buffalo also seems to have this reputation, externally, that it's a shithole. That is far from the truth and anyone that lives here will agree. People should also know that Buffalo is not NYC and on the opposite end of the state.

He's from Conklin NY, a pretty rural, predominantly white, small town outside of Binghamton. It's full of dumbasses.

Really, who knows. It makes no sense. This stuff never does.
 

Vaelka

Member
Looks like another one of those camo-militia dudes who think think they are like the rebels in Red Dawn.

Untitled-design-166.png

It's always super cringe imo when I see tactibro larpers.
Obviously they're not like this guy I am not trying to say people into that stuff are equivelant.
But if you're a grown ass man and you run around in tacticool military gear larp:ing that you're some special ops and act like a badass because you own a gun and wear tactical body armor and military gear then just wtf lol.
I see these people all over Youtube too and it's just cringe imo it comes across like adult manchildren trying way too hard to prove how '' manly '' they are.

I am not anti gun or anything like that but there's just a line it crosses where it enters some weird realms of absurdity.
Like almost gleefully fantasizing about a burglar breaking into your house and you pulling out your blinged out glock and assault rifle and going all tactical clearing your house like some wannabe SWAT guy.
You don't need to dress up like some special forces or marine to go to the shooting range and have some fun, it's not cool it's just weird.
 

ManaByte

Banned
But if you're a grown ass man and you run around in tacticool military gear larp:ing that you're some special ops and act like a badass because you own a gun and wear tactical body armor and military gear then just wtf lol.

I take it you've never played paintball or airsoft.
 

Vaelka

Member
I take it you've never played paintball or airsoft.

I have played paintball but not airsoft the place close to me is only paintball as far as I know, but when I played paintball we didn't literally pretend to be military and at war and we didn't wear military uniforms and use mumbo jumbo we've heard in movies.
I am not talking about just playing paintball for fun, I haven't played it in years but I used to play it a lot and was pretty good at it.

I am talking about people who are basically fetishizing the military and special forces and think they're some actual huge badass.
I think there's a difference between playing paintball or just owning a gun for fun and with taking it ultra seriously in a much more real way.
There's a difference between just doing something for fun and with crossing the line where you're actually taking it seriously and think you're some kind of a big deal.

Same with owning a gun for self defense and with fantasizing and even hoping to be attacked and thinking you'll be some super ultra professional elite warrior when it happens.
I think there's a pretty big overlap between the latter and with people who larps and dressup like real military and the whole tacticool thing.

I saw the vid online, just before the feed ends he points his gun at a white guy screaming next to a checkout and he says "sorry" and runs on without shooting the guy.

I wonder if there will be a lot of survival guilt for some people like that.
Really fucked up that he streamed it too.
 
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We in Portugal have the Brazilian tv channels and from what I watched there’s been a rise in shootings even if it’s cartels, robberies etc. more guns on the streets…
Most of these aren’t legal. They would be present anyway (probably smuggled from Paraguay or Colombia). Also, it seems to happen more frequently because the coverage is bigger. In many cases, arguments such as “mass shooting are increasing because it is legal to have a firearm” is propaganda from the other side. I can’t say about the USA but using Brazil again, as far as I know it is super expensive to have a legalized gun (99% of the population wouldn’t be able to afford it).
 
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TTOOLL

Member
I’m European, not saying there’s not crazy people all over the world because these types of thing happens everywhere.
But sadly, shootings seen “normal” in the USA!

To also put into perspective, since Brazil passed a law of personal gun ownership, mass shootings skyrocketed!
Wow dude, stop fucking lying lmao. We have no mass shootings around here, fortunately. Are you insane? Do you even live here?? Gtfo
 

Romulus

Member
I just don't understand the rationale on any level. Even if you're deranged and trying to cul the population of a certain race, they replenish the lost numbers within minutes or seconds. Even if you kill a hundred. 10,000 are born a day just in the US. Now you're off to prison to get buttraped for the next 30 years? I can't even step inside their head to make any sense of it.

But yeah, looking at his pics, typical low IQ weirdo.
 
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Davey Cakes

Member
I feel bad that the "good guy with a gun" security guard got killed. It's scary that even with an equipped population, if you don't have body armor and other protections then you're still at a high risk.

People are going to ask themselves more and more, is it worth it?
 

BadBurger

Banned
What does Tucker Carlson have to do with this?

In the shooter's manifesto they parrot Carlson's various endorsements and rhetoric of the "great replacement" conspiracy theory, which suggests caucasians in many countries are being actively replaced by people of color (yes, this is a real thing many conspiracy theorists believe and it has been around a long time - as one can imagine, it's big on places like 4chan). And there's plenty else in that manifesto that mirrors the same kinds of things Carlson discusses on his show.

Anyway, I feel really bad for the families of the victims, and I admit to quickly slipping back into mass shooting fatigue; I am already beginning to get them mixed up or forgetting the crucial details like a week later. The pandemic sucked, but one of the good things about it was the way it retarded the rate of these shootings.
 

daveonezero

Banned
It's always super cringe imo when I see tactibro larpers.
Obviously they're not like this guy I am not trying to say people into that stuff are equivelant.
But if you're a grown ass man and you run around in tacticool military gear larp:ing that you're some special ops and act like a badass because you own a gun and wear tactical body armor and military gear then just wtf lol.
I see these people all over Youtube too and it's just cringe imo it comes across like adult manchildren trying way too hard to prove how '' manly '' they are.

I am not anti gun or anything like that but there's just a line it crosses where it enters some weird realms of absurdity.
Like almost gleefully fantasizing about a burglar breaking into your house and you pulling out your blinged out glock and assault rifle and going all tactical clearing your house like some wannabe SWAT guy.
You don't need to dress up like some special forces or marine to go to the shooting range and have some fun, it's not cool it's just weird.
that’s your opinion. Those guys that shoot weekly think video games are lame.

They do it as exercise and a hobby. Shooting is fun. Doing it in kit just makes sense. They are literally practicing the “well regulated” part of the 2a. They are conditioned and know their equipment well.

It isn’t a crime to have a belt, chest rig and a few dozen loaded magazines. It also isn’t showing any sort of intent.

Once again there was literally tons of intent and violent rhetoric from this guys social media and no one did anything.

Yet the FBI thinks it’s cool to plot a governors kidnapping.

Also not all white guys with a Gun are arrested. The hero that stopped a shooting in Colorado was shot dead by cops who responded.

 
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What does Tucker Carlson have to do with this?

NY is a shit hole right now. I live in Rochester… shootings happen DAILY … the difference is it’s usually Black on Black shootings in bad neighborhoods and just about everyone is linked to laws which let violent criminals go free and bring in even more violent criminals as there are little consequence.

In these bad neighborhoods they don’t even try to hide it anymore. Stray bullets hitting peoples homes and churches as shootings happen openly in the street.

It’s a major issue right now. So yes this guy is lower than scum and should be locked up for life but don’t act like shootings and death is something new and caused by some outside force. It’s always been here and has been fueled by idiotic new laws and social views on criminals.

For every person this guy has shot no less than 10 more were killed in the last 4 months to no fanfare or idiotic political propaganda.



Well Tucker does talk a lot about the great replacement, and this dude seems to be of that mind too.
 

Vaelka

Member
that’s your opinion. Those guys that shoot weekly think video games are lame.

They do it as exercise and a hobby. Shooting is fun. Doing it in kit just makes sense. They are literally practicing the “well regulated” part of the 2a. They are conditioned and know their equipment well.

It isn’t a crime to have a belt, chest rig and a few dozen loaded magazines. It also isn’t showing any sort of intent.

Once again there was literally tons of intent and violent rhetoric from this guys social media and no one did anything.

Yet the FBI thinks it’s cool to plot a governors kidnapping.

Also not all white guys with a Gun are arrested. The hero that stopped a shooting in Colorado was shot dead by cops who responded.

I mean obviously it's my opinion, I never said that shooting was cringe I said myself that it's fun.
There is a difference between doing something for fun and what I am talking about.
If you play a FPS and you larp the same way then I think that's cringe too.

It's the same with martial arts there is a difference between people who do martial arts for fun and for health reasons or because IF something was to happen they want to have some level of competency.
And with someone who thinks they're the ultimate badass super warrior who goes around bragging about it and has an inflated ego about it.
( Martial arts are probably 500 times more likely to help you too, real life isn't like in movies in most self defense situations you won't have time to pull out a gun the threat will already be up close before they reveal themselves as a threat and you can forget about your SWAT larping and tacticool gear ).

I dunno why you're even bringing up white guys I never said anything about that, I wonder if you even read what I actually said.
If you want to go to the shooting range and have fun then that's great.
But you're not an elite ninja warrior special ops who's ever going to benefit from any of that in your life, and even if you under some bizarre circumstance found yourself in such a situation then you're essentially still just a kid who larped you're not a professional who's legitimately trained.

I feel bad that the "good guy with a gun" security guard got killed. It's scary that even with an equipped population, if you don't have body armor and other protections then you're still at a high risk.

People are going to ask themselves more and more, is it worth it?

Yeah things happen so fast there's just no way.
I really see no reason why civilians should be owning body armor either tbh.
There are so many problems with that and the only people who would ever have an actual legit reason to own it and actually also wear it in a relevant situation are people who are up to no good.

It's really scary to read that he got shot and just shrugged it off because of that.
That shouldn't be possible for a shooter.
 
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Once again there was literally tons of intent and violent rhetoric from this guys social media and no one did anything.
SPOT ON. Same issue with the New York City subway attacker. His social media clearly showed he was a black supremacist who had increasingly extremist views and was intent on doing something violent about it. Yet none of the federal agencies did anything about it. Then it was too late and just like this guy, he committed a race motivated terrorist attack.

Yet the FBI thinks it’s cool to plot a governors kidnapping.
Again, correct. FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, etc... Their record hasn't been stellar lately. It's a bit of a priority thing... Phony Governor kidnapping plots and focusing on parents at school meetings as "domestic terrorists" when there are white supremacists and black supremacists openly getting radicalized and planning harm on citizens.

It's a pity what's happening to our society. This senseless division that only keeps increasing by the minute. I was told by the media that the election of Barack Obama to the most powerful position in the free world was "the beginning of a post-racial America." Yet in 2022 America is at the most racially divided than I have ever witnessed in my lifetime.
 
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Catphish

Member
Above all, my deepest sympathy and condolences to all those killed, injured, or otherwise affected by this. It’s heartbreaking and utterly tragic.

The first thing that popped in my head was, all it would take would be one good guy with a concealed piece to make a difference here.

Guns aren’t going away in the US. They’re just not. The sun will rise in the west before that happens.

What we need, therefore, are more good guys with a concealed carry license, and an end to those silly window stickers prohibiting law-abiding gun owners from carrying in places like shopping malls and supermarkets.

The bad guys don’t give a fuck about those stickers. They just tilt the odds in the bad guy’s favor.
 
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One of the many problems with the current division is not only people going isolated from their communities, but becoming tribal to the point of not employing reason and repeating points they hear without even thinking about it.

We see it in this very thread. I see that Tucker Carlson (!?) has been brought up. The guy is a buffoon and has filled in the void left by Bill O'Reilly, who unfortunately has a dedicated audience. I'm not here to defend Tucker Carlson, so let's consider the following:

1. Tucker Carlson has not, to my knowledge, called for violence.
2. Go watch an average Tucker Carlson segment. Then go watch an average Joy Reid segment. And tell me which one of them is just a societal agitator, and which one of them is actually openly racist. Go ahead, tell me. (I have watched many, many segments from both of them and I know what my answer is...)

In order to improve social relations among all groups, we have to be able to think critically. Cut it out with the tribalism!
 
The US but also the West in general is in trouble. A very vocal and growing minority, of lunatics, many in powerful positions, University professors, teachers, boardroom. execs, media presenters are quickly dividing society through radicalist ideas, such as social justice. It almost seems too far gone now for a reversal to occur anytime soon.

Its taken away a lot of the rationalism from our socetites. Fair and civil discourse is dying on many pressing issues and being engulfed in anger that has been stirred up in people. At this point, I don't think a certain state having a death penalty is going to deter very angry people from doing very bad things.

Our societies are failing. In the US, here in the UK and across Europe too. There is clear regression on multiple fronts from the values that built up our societies to a point of greatness that was admired by the rest of the world.

Increasing divorce rates, increasing abortion rates, youth apathy, Internet addiction, increasing drug addiction / deaths, children involved in crime, increasing violent crime, increasing obesity, communities divided by race, and loss of tradition. Its all in the data and in our faces. I have little faith things will improve in the next few decades, as there's little conversation going on about these things, but I'd love to be wrong.

Apologies for the depressing post. Keep good morals and habits, keep up healthy relations with people you can trust and we can still carve out a good life for ourselves amongst all this chaos.
Nothing you said is wrong, not sure why idiots are laughing. Hope they wake up one day.
 
This narrative needs to die, from every race. It just fuels uninformed tension. The subway shooter last month wasn't gunned down either. Fact is, when you surrender to the police, they don't walk up and execute you regardless of your skin tone.

Man, thank you. It’s about time more people shit on that narrative. Society loves to insert racism when it’s a white guy involved but conveniently enjoy forgetting when the same thing happens to a person of color.
 

Sophist

Member
Of course he was caught alive.

And of course he's a right wing nutjob who listened to to much Tucker Carlson.
Note that in his manifesto, he claims to belong to a mild-moderate authoritarian left and that he begun as a communist. He calls for the end of capitalism, for the end of cheap labors, and for more unions. He criticizes conservatives. He also talks about some "green" nationalism being the only true nationalism.
 

nkarafo

Member
Why don't mass shooters ever go after the elites who caused the division?

Why is it always a grocery store, concert, airport, college...
I assume it's because the elites have a lot of guards and security that would fuck any shooter up before they have the chance to fire their first shot.
 
The US but also the West in general is in trouble. A very vocal and growing minority, of lunatics, many in powerful positions, University professors, teachers, boardroom. execs, media presenters are quickly dividing society through radicalist ideas, such as social justice. It almost seems too far gone now for a reversal to occur anytime soon.

Its taken away a lot of the rationalism from our socetites. Fair and civil discourse is dying on many pressing issues and being engulfed in anger that has been stirred up in people. At this point, I don't think a certain state having a death penalty is going to deter very angry people from doing very bad things.

Our societies are failing. In the US, here in the UK and across Europe too. There is clear regression on multiple fronts from the values that built up our societies to a point of greatness that was admired by the rest of the world.

Increasing divorce rates, increasing abortion rates, youth apathy, Internet addiction, increasing drug addiction / deaths, children involved in crime, increasing violent crime, increasing obesity, communities divided by race, and loss of tradition. Its all in the data and in our faces. I have little faith things will improve in the next few decades, as there's little conversation going on about these things, but I'd love to be wrong.

Apologies for the depressing post. Keep good morals and habits, keep up healthy relations with people you can trust and we can still carve out a good life for ourselves amongst all this chaos.
Best analytical post in this thread so far. The fact that it initially got only "laughing" reactions tells you all we need to know about where we are as a country -- and also, why the administration of the forum (correctly) nuked the politics forum.

Well, one of the guys that reacted to your post, he joined this site somewhat recently, and I tried to engage with him in a debate... and I think he's legitimately a bad faith actor. (I thought I blocked him but apparently I need to double check that...)

Man, thank you. It’s about time more people shit on that narrative. Society loves to insert racism when it’s a white guy involved but conveniently enjoy forgetting when the same thing happens to a person of color.
You're absolutely right. The terrorist attacks in both Wisconsin and New York City got memory-holed pretty quickly. I was particularly upset about the New York City one because that's my home town, and although I don't like there anymore I still have friends out there.

Note that in his manifesto, he claims to belong to a mild-moderate authoritarian left and that he begun as a communist. He calls for the end of capitalism, for the end of cheap labors, and for more unions. He criticizes conservatives. He also talks about some "green" nationalism being the only true nationalism.
Oh oh, be careful about bringing up actual facts that don't fit the narrative...

I think one quick step towards unification, at least for this issue, is for ALL political commentators and personalities -- left and right -- need to CONDEMN this heinous act:

- To the people on the right: don't excuse it, don't philosophize it. CONDEMN it as a terrorist act.
- To the people on the left: I already know y'all are gonna condemn it, but condemn it initially as an attack on fellow Americans. I know I'm just yelling into the void with this point, but try to not paint a large segment of America based on this ONE lunatic's actions. Don't fan the flames of division. PLEASE.
 
I will never understand people's willingness to shoot another human being and I've been in some situations where I've snapped and my rage has gone off the deep end but picking up a gun has NEVER been an option
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Crazy to me that when something like this happens the first thing people want to know is the shooter's political affiliations. Not for a search for a possible motive but for the culture war. Fox News or CNN didn't make him do this.
 
Best analytical post in this thread so far. The fact that it initially got only "laughing" reactions tells you all we need to know about where we are as a country -- and also, why the administration of the forum (correctly) nuked the politics forum.

Well, one of the guys that reacted to your post, he joined this site somewhat recently, and I tried to engage with him in a debate... and I think he's legitimately a bad faith actor. (I thought I blocked him but apparently I need to double check that...)


You're absolutely right. The terrorist attacks in both Wisconsin and New York City got memory-holed pretty quickly. I was particularly upset about the New York City one because that's my home town, and although I don't like there anymore I still have friends out there.


Oh oh, be careful about bringing up actual facts that don't fit the narrative...

I think one quick step towards unification, at least for this issue, is for ALL political commentators and personalities -- left and right -- need to CONDEMN this heinous act:

- To the people on the right: don't excuse it, don't philosophize it. CONDEMN it as a terrorist act.
- To the people on the left: I already know y'all are gonna condemn it, but condemn it initially as an attack on fellow Americans. I know I'm just yelling into the void with this point, but try to not paint a large segment of America based on this ONE lunatic's actions. Don't fan the flames of division. PLEASE.


Laughing cause it is an poor attempt to reframe the issue.
It is devoid of all material analysis and the fact that you also bring up the nuking of politics with out context is silly.
Cause let’s be clear, the dude who did this would have LOVED a ton of thread after November 2020.


I laughed cause just like you he is repacking old 1920 far right talking points.
Y’all don’t talk about how many are left behind due to the material circumstances that lead to issues.
Stuff like wages not rising to correspond with living, health care.
 

Kraz

Member
The US but also the West in general is in trouble. A very vocal and growing minority, of lunatics, many in powerful positions, University professors, teachers, boardroom. execs, media presenters are quickly dividing society through radicalist ideas, such as social justice. It almost seems too far gone now for a reversal to occur anytime soon.

Its taken away a lot of the rationalism from our socetites. Fair and civil discourse is dying on many pressing issues and being engulfed in anger that has been stirred up in people. At this point, I don't think a certain state having a death penalty is going to deter very angry people from doing very bad things.

Our societies are failing. In the US, here in the UK and across Europe too. There is clear regression on multiple fronts from the values that built up our societies to a point of greatness that was admired by the rest of the world.

Increasing divorce rates, increasing abortion rates, youth apathy, Internet addiction, increasing drug addiction / deaths, children involved in crime, increasing violent crime, increasing obesity, communities divided by race, and loss of tradition. Its all in the data and in our faces. I have little faith things will improve in the next few decades, as there's little conversation going on about these things, but I'd love to be wrong.

Apologies for the depressing post. Keep good morals and habits, keep up healthy relations with people you can trust and we can still carve out a good life for ourselves amongst all this chaos.
Social justice isn't a radicalist idea. It sounds like you're using this tragedy as a soapbox to virtue signal and further your brand of vague moralizing. The way you say professors, teachers, boardsrooms, execs, media, it sounds like you're a conspiracy nut with no real connection to the nations you speak about.

There are some real problems in my country with vocal minorities and violence, they have nothing to do with social justice. In the recent covid protests there was an armed group that was arrested thankfully before they could cause trouble. What is influencing these idiots that's the sort of place where the problem is coming from, not from your zealous ranting about "divorce rates, increasing abortion rates, youth apathy, Internet addiction, increasing drug addiction / deaths, children involved in crime, increasing violent crime, increasing obesity, communities divided by race, and loss of tradition".
 
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