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[Canuck76]

Show me a post where I proclaimed Portland is going to be good. I'll wait.

If anyone is take the mantle of irrational hope that would be me.

Guys if Wesley could average 20 and Nic could average 20, then, then, and then Lillard can be decent

We could have the 7th seed!

In all seriousness i hope Wesley plays well and then maybe you use him for trade bait.

This is the front office that got Gerald Wallace post prime for the #6 pick in the draft

If we can swing Wesley and Hickson (maybe throw in Barton, whatever young commodities needed) for a top 10 pick , and we tank pretty hard, we could have a shot at Shabazz.

But Lillard will be good mark my words

 

[snack]

If we're going by PER, I expect Martin's to go up to around 20.0 this year on the Thunder. His career average is 18.7 and just 2 years ago he put up 21.4 over 80 games.

Again--I'm not saying I'm thrilled to replace Harden with him, but the critcism surrounding Martin here is hyperbolic. This is by far the best team he's played on and his skills seem naturally suited to a sixth man role.

Doesn't look like Martin is suited for a sixth man role...

Take a look at this article.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...he-right-fit-for-james-hardens-sixth-man-role

 

[DY_nasty]

I've never seen Lillard play tbh

 

[KingGondo]

Wait til you see him play.

If you ever learn anything reading this thread, stats lie.

If I've learned anything from being a Thunder fan, it's to trust in Presti.

 

[Flash]

If anyone is take the mantle of irrational hope that would be me.

Guys if Wesley could average 20 and Nic could average 20, then, then, and then Lillard can be decent

We could have the 7th seed!

In all seriousness i hope Wesley plays well and then maybe you use him for trade bait.

This is the front office that got Gerald Wallace post prime for the #6 pick in the draft

If we can swing Wesley and Hickson (maybe throw in Barton, whatever young commodities needed) for a top 10 pick , and we tank pretty hard, we could have a shot at Shabazz.

But Lillard will be good mark my words

But they swindled the nets... I don't think that really falls under criteria that makes management good lol

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

If I've learned anything from being a Thunder fan, it's to trust in Presti.

Harden would like to have a word with you about that.

 

[KingGondo]

Harden would like to have a word with you about that.

When Sam gave him 1 hour to decide, he sure as hell followed through on his promise.

 

[Smokey]

Presti Presti Presti

I have heard the name Presti thrown around so much in the past few days all I can think about is that smug pic that was posted in the preseason thread

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Presti also drafted Cole Aldrich 11th overall and Jeff Green 5th and gave huge money to Perkins.

The Westbrook pick was awesome and I guess he didn't screw up with the Harden pick (though he and Rubio were rated way higher than anyone else on the board so Rubio's contract issue basically locked in Harden), but he does have flaws.

 

[msdstc]

Miami is going to blow Boston out. Boston is not on their level, dont let the mediocre bench and role player pick ups fool you

I agree tonight will be rough in that Miami is basically the same exact squad that just won a ring, while the celts are basically an entirely new look/new style team. Eventually I expect them to be right on their level.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

When Sam gave him 1 hour to decide, he sure as hell followed through on his promise.

Presti has balls and this trade could lead to a great team when they move Martin, amnesty Perk or get good players from those picks ....they could easily have had their best year for a long time last year.

Time will tell.

 

[DY_nasty]

If I've learned anything from being a Thunder fan, it's to trust in Presti.

This is the same guy and FO who could've amnestied the dead weight in Perkins instead of trading away the best young SG in the league because of 4.5 million dollars and a luxury tax that got a lot closer ONLY after resigning the one dimensional project big somehow became priority #1.

Yeah, he's good at assembling talent but so far he looks like he's terrible at actually managing it.

 

[msdstc]

Presti also drafted Cole Aldrich 11th overall and Jeff Green 5th and gave huge money to Perkins.

The Westbrook pick was awesome and I guess he didn't screw up with the Harden pick (though he and Rubio were rated way higher than anyone else on the board so Rubio's contract issue basically locked in Harden), but he does have flaws.

Drafting Green was a flaw? Go back and look at that draft class... same can be said for the Aldrich draft. I'm not saying one way or another on Presti, but there really wasn't any other option.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Drafting Green was a flaw? Go back and look at that draft class... same can be said for the Aldrich draft. I'm not saying one way or another on Presti, but there really wasn't any other option.

Green is terrible and Noah was on the board so it turned out to be a bad pick.

The 2010 draft options after Aldrich were bad, but Presti traded all of the Thunder's cap space to move up to get him so that was pretty bad as well.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

Would you draft Ryan Gomes 5th overall?

 

[Adam Blade]

Would you draft Ryan Gomes 5th overall?

 

[darkside31337]

Drafting Green was a flaw? Go back and look at that draft class... same can be said for the Aldrich draft. I'm not saying one way or another on Presti, but there really wasn't any other option.

And yet somehow getting a pick in the 20s from Dallas (if they even get it) and a pick in the who knows where range (well it won't be 1/2/3) from Toronto is going to make up the difference between Harden and Lamb/KMart.

 

[DY_nasty]

I love how Andre is following AI around the league.

Him being in Memphis next year isn't even that much of a stretch.

 

[reilo]

If we're going by PER, I expect Martin's to go up to around 20.0 this year on the Thunder. His career average is 18.7 and just 2 years ago he put up 21.4 over 80 games.

Again--I'm not saying I'm thrilled to replace Harden with him, but the critcism surrounding Martin here is hyperbolic. This is by far the best team he's played on and his skills seem naturally suited to a sixth man role.

:lol

Just like Westbrook was going to average 20-10?

 

[msdstc]

Green is terrible and Noah was on the board so it turned out to be a bad pick.

The 2010 draft options after Aldrich were bad, but Presti traded all of the Thunder's cap space to move up to get him so that was pretty bad as well.

I'm not a huge Jeff Green fan, but he's not terrible. Noah is a solid C, but not a star. Besides presti traded for Jeff.

And yet somehow getting a pick in the 20s from Dallas (if they even get it) and a pick in the who knows where range (well it won't be 1/2/3) from Toronto is going to make up the difference between Harden and Lamb/KMart.

The thing people seem to be overlooking is Harden was gone one way or another. The same exact team that wasn't good enough last year comes back into a league where the team that beat them improved, and their biggest opponent in the west improved in a big way. He made something of Harden, rather than playing the season out, letting him walk, and coming away empty handed. Don't get me wrong they still had a shot, and probably still do, but if Lamb pans out, this will be genius.

 

[Bread]

Green is terrible and Noah was on the board so it turned out to be a bad pick.

Jeff Green comeback tour

starting tonight

MIP confirmed

 

[reilo]

I've never seen Lillard play tbh

I've seen like two YouTube highlights and a bunch of workout videos. No lie. Tomorrow night will be my first exposure to him.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I'm not a huge Jeff Green fan, but he's not terrible. Noah is a solid C, but not a star. Besides presti traded for Jeff.



The thing people seem to be overlooking is Harden was gone one way or another. The same exact team that wasn't good enough last year comes back into a league where the team that beat them improved, and their biggest opponent in the west improved in a big way. He made something of Harden, rather than playing the season out, letting him walk, and coming away empty handed. Don't get me wrong they still had a shot, and probably still do, but if Lamb pans out, this will be genius.

Trading Harden or not is a false dichotomy. They could have moved YNB or Ibaka or amnestied Perk.

 

[KingGondo]

Presti's not perfect, but he hits a lot more than he misses.

And again, I think the Thunder will look way different by the time the playoffs start. My gut tells me that we move Maynor, Martin, and both of the picks we acquired from Houston. We could get a lot for that.

 

[darkside31337]

The thing people seem to be overlooking is Harden was gone one way or another. The same exact team that wasn't good enough last year comes back into a league where the team that beat them improved, and their biggest opponent in the west improved in a big way. He made something of Harden, rather than playing the season out, letting him walk, and coming away empty handed. Don't get me wrong they still had a shot, and probably still do, but if Lamb pans out, this will be genius.

I agree that Presti made the most out of this situation - but its a mess he created entirely on his own. By not amnestying Perkins, by not overpaying the shit out of Ibaka he could have easily signed Harden long term.

 

[Red Blaster]

I'm not a huge Jeff Green fan, but he's not terrible. Noah is a solid C, but not a star. Besides presti traded for Jeff.



The thing people seem to be overlooking is Harden was gone one way or another. The same exact team that wasn't good enough last year comes back into a league where the team that beat them improved, and their biggest opponent in the west improved in a big way. He made something of Harden, rather than playing the season out, letting him walk, and coming away empty handed. Don't get me wrong they still had a shot, and probably still do, but if Lamb pans out, this will be genius.

Harden is still improving, guy is 23 and is probably going to be the best 2 guard in the league very soon. OKC could likely get a nice return on Ibaka since GMs overrate the fuck out of him but they would have to do it before everyone realizes he's not very good.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I don't see how you can just say "trust presti". As more and more comes out about this trade, it seems like harden was about to cave, or at least thinking hardly about it and Presti played hardball for a reason I really don't know. That offer would have been there in February, he could have sat on it, he could have gotten better. It seems like an ego move past anything else. A hour is a laughable amount of time to make a decision that big. He may have thrown all his franchises good luck and drafting skill down the drain, and for what?

I was giving harden shit earlier but it really does seem like I really misjudged him.

 

[Smokey]

Harden is still improving, guy is 23 and is probably going to be the best 2 guard in the league very soon. OKC could likely get a nice return on Ibaka since GMs overrate the fuck out of him but they would have to do it before everyone realizes he's not very good.

That would be great but I'd take the under on the chances of this happening

To me Presti played hard with harden for no reason. He still had days left before the deadline, and from what I have read harden just needed a bit more time to think about it.

 

[darkside31337]

Yep regardless of whatever you think of the deal, Morey absolutely played Presti on one front and that was the idea that there was a forced timetable days before the actual extension deadline. Like Morey wasn't going to do this deal a day or two later.

 

[Sanjuro]

Oh, hey. There is basketball tonight.

 

[KingGondo]

It seems like an ego move past anything else. A hour is a laughable amount of time to make a decision that big.

You act like they hadn't been negotiating for months. The hour ultimatum was a way of forcing the issue. Harden called Presti's bluff and lost (as much as one can lose by getting $78 million over 5 years).

Presti wanted to get an answer in time for him to make a deal with Houston if he needed to. Morey only wanted him if he could be extended by the 10/31 deadline.

 

[Smokey]

Oh, hey. There is basketball tonight.

But you told me basketball sucked and stick ball was better

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

NBA 2K13 is now on Steam for $30

 

[Sanjuro]

But you told me basketball sucked and stick ball was better

That's true.

 

[iamshadowlark]

The thing people seem to be overlooking is Harden was gone one way or another. The same exact team that wasn't good enough last year comes back into a league where the team that beat them improved, and their biggest opponent in the west improved in a big way. He made something of Harden, rather than playing the season out, letting him walk, and coming away empty handed. Don't get me wrong they still had a shot, and probably still do, but if Lamb pans out, this will be genius.

No he wasn't. Really what are you going on about?

A team that has gotten markedly better every year was in their first finals and lost to a veteran team that was there last year, got shamed, and was practically foaming at the mouth to get back. OKC was the one team that was built to contend for years with that core and had minimal moves to make.

The Lakers have 3 years max in their current form and weren't guaranteed to beat them at all. The Heat, who knows honestly, but OKC surely would have outlasted them.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

This is the same guy and FO who could've amnestied the dead weight in Perkins instead of trading away the best young SG in the league because of 4.5 million dollars and a luxury tax that got a lot closer ONLY after resigning the one dimensional project big somehow became priority #1.

wait perkins could of been amnestied? shit man why didn't he just amnesty perkins?

 

[Smokey]

wait perkins could of been amnestied? shit man why didn't he just amnesty perkins?

Because Presti

 

[Red Blaster]

That would be great but I'd take the under on the chances of this happening

To me Presti played hard with harden for no reason. He still had days left before the deadline, and from what I have read harden just needed a bit more time to think about it.

Wade, Kobe and Manu are old and declining. Monta and Joe Johnson are lulz and Eric Gordon is injured all the time.

 

[msdstc]

No he wasn't. Really what are you going on about?

A team that has gotten markedly better every year was in their first finals and lost to a veteran team that was there last year, got shamed, and was practically foaming at the mouth to get back. OKC was the one team that was built to contend for years with that core and had minimal moves to make.

The Lakers have 3 years max in their current form and weren't guaranteed to beat them at all. The Heat, who knows honestly, but OKC surely would have outlasted them.

Wait what? How can you be so sure they would've outlasted them? Lebron is still in his prime and has quite a few years left. Maybe after a few more failed attempts they have to blow it up. How do you know another team during this time doesn't put it together? Maybe Derrick Rose comes back strong and can get his team back to its peak. You're assuming far too much. The general consensus was that Harden wanted more money than they had. I agree they could've dropped Perk or moved Ibaka, but it doesn't always set up the way you'd like it to.

Harden is still improving, guy is 23 and is probably going to be the best 2 guard in the league very soon. OKC could likely get a nice return on Ibaka since GMs overrate the fuck out of him but they would have to do it before everyone realizes he's not very good.

What the hell? Where is this coming from? I like Harden and everything, but lets just see what happens first.

 

[GremlinFool]

My predictions for the season:

East:
Heat: 67-15
Celtics: 54-28
Knicks: 50-32
Nets: 48-34
Bulls: 45-37
Pacers (with Granger out): 44-38
Sixers: 40-42
Bucks: 39-43

West:
Lakers: 59-23
Spurs: 57-25
Clippers: 56-26
OKC: 55-27
Nuggets: 55-27
Grizzlies: 54-28
Mavs: 50-32
Jazz: 48-34

On the cusp:
Rockets: 46-36


Championship: Lakers win it all

 

[iamshadowlark]

You act like they hadn't been negotiating for months. The hour ultimatum was a way of forcing the issue. Harden called Presti's bluff and lost (as much as one can lose by getting $78 million over 5 years).

Presti wanted to get an answer in time for him to make a deal with Houston if he needed to. Morey only wanted him if he could be extended by the 10/31 deadline.

They could have did the deal in February. Presti got duped. Morey has wanted harden forever.

He could have had harden till the trade deadline and traded for that exact deal is he was still turning it down. Harden wouldn't be able to extend his rookie contract and would have become a RFA but the Rockets could have matched any offer and probably would have.

There was no real reason for the hour deadline and it was honestly a bad idea.

 

[msdstc]

Wade, Kobe and Manu are old and declining. Monta and Joe Johnson are lulz and Eric Gordon is injured all the time.

So he wins by default? Wade and Kobe for sure have a few more years, and Manu is still his old injury prone self, well see how he does this year. Being "the best shooting guard" in the league when your only competition is Eric Gordon is laughable. It's the same concept of taking a position by need not talent when someone significantly more valuable was on the board.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

What the hell? Where is this coming from? I like Harden and everything, but lets just see what happens first.

Wade, Kobe and Manu are old and declining. Monta and Joe Johnson are lulz and Eric Gordon is injured all the time.

.

 

[reilo]

So he wins by default? Wade and Kobe for sure have a few more years, and Manu is still his old injury prone self, well see how he does this year. Being "the best shooting guard" in the league when your only competition is Eric Gordon is laughable. It's the same concept of taking a position by need not talent when someone significantly more valuable was on the board.

Dwight Howard has been the defacto best center in the league for five plus years now.

 

[shira]

Toronto Raptors

We are so fucked. If we lose it is OKC's pick.
If we win we make Mona less money

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

y

So he wins by default? Wade and Kobe for sure have a few more years, and Manu is still his old injury prone self, well see how he does this year. Being "the best shooting guard" in the league when your only competition is Eric Gordon is laughable. It's the same concept of taking a position by need not talent when someone significantly more valuable was on the board.

Dwight is the best center due to similar circumstances...actually that argument can be made for pretty much every player.

If everyone is trotting out guys who are average to good at best at sg having a great SG is a huge advantage.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Dwight Howard has been the defacto best center in the league for five plus years now.

Dwight Howard has also been the second best player in the league for four years now whereas Harden needs to learn how to defend to become a top 10 player in the league. There are differences.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Wait what? How can you be so sure they would've outlasted them? Lebron is still in his prime and has quite a few years left. Maybe after a few more failed attempts they have to blow it up. How do you know another team during this time doesn't put it together? Maybe Derrick Rose comes back strong and can get his team back to its peak. You're assuming far too much. The general consensus was that Harden wanted more money than they had. I agree they could've dropped Perk or moved Ibaka, but it doesn't always set up the way you'd like it to.



.

Im a heat fan and can see Dwade is on the way out. Thats not an assumption, his body is breaking down, slowly but surely. Lebron is not even guaranteed to be here past 2014. Im assuming but the biggest and by far the dumbest implication here is the one about OKC somehow needing to blow it up this year.

 

[msdstc]

Dwight Howard has been the defacto best center in the league for five plus years now.

Cmon gimme a break. First off there were debates last year regarding Bynum, but that's not the point... the point is Hardens biggest award is 6th man of the year... Dwight has won 3 Defensive player of the years, been to multiple all star games, and all defensive and all NBA 1st team year in and year out. Dwight brought the magic to the finals surrounded by garbage. That team will collapse in spectacular fashion this year, similar to the cavs when Lebron left. The thunder will still compete without Harden, and the rockets will still be at the very best 8th seed.

edit=-

Im a heat fan and can see Dwade is on the way out. Thats not an assumption, his body is breaking down, slowly but surely. Lebron is not even guaranteed to be here past 2014. Im assuming but the biggest and by far the dumbest implication here is the one about OKC somehow needing to blow it up this year.

Never said one more year, I said a few more. WB has been on the verge of being shipped out on more than one occasion, Brooks was almost fired last year. If something were to happen... a collapse, an injury, frustration, the franchise would do anything they could to keep Durant happy.

 

[darkside31337]

Cmon gimme a break. First off there were debates last year regarding Bynum, but that's not the point... the point is Hardens biggest award is 6th man of the year... Dwight has won 3 Defensive player of the years, been to multiple all star games, and all defensive and all NBA 1st team year in and year out. Dwight brought the magic to the finals surrounded by garbage. That team will collapse in spectacular fashion this year, similar to the cavs when Lebron left. The thunder will still compete without Harden, and the rockets will still be at the very best 8th seed.

While I agree with your overall point LOL at that. Only Lakers fans were spewing that bullshit and now they pretend like Bynum didn't even exist.