• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

2015 NBA Finals |OT| the deli is closed

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fjordson

Member
I understand why this question would come up but, when we have a dude like Duncan winning a trophy at 39, it shows that there is still a lot of career left if he wants it. The question will be around his willingness to adapt and shift his role as he continues. He can't keep doing what he's been doing forever but that, in and of itself, doesn't draw a straight line as to whether he wins more rings or not.
Oh I'm not saying he'll fall of a cliff or anything anytime soon, but I just meant like how many more years we'll have of the Lebron James we know. He's one of the most physically impressive athletes ever with his combination of size, strength and speed, so you wonder when that advantage will start to fade.

And Duncan is unique. Most guys don't age like him. It helps that his game isn't all about athleticism or jumping ability or anything like that, but it's amazing what he's done these last few years.

edit: also worth noting that Duncan played four years in college. That's still wear and tear on the body, but it's nothing compared to the NBA. Lebron's been going at it in the pros since he was 18.
 
Huh? There's no guarantee Wade or Dragic are even coming back and they couldn't play .500 ball when they were on the court this year. Washington, Milwaukee, Atlanta and Chicago are all clearly still head and shoulders above Miami.

Lol, our team last year consisted of Dragic, injured D Wade, Whiteside, Deng, Chalmers and a bunch of D league players.

Oh and I believe the team was 13-13 when both Wade and Dragic actually played last season. This isn't even taking into account the tanking that Heat did the last month of the season (the losses against Detroit and Chicago for example). This is also without the team's leading scorer either, or time to actually develop an offense.

By the way, there is also no guarantee that Jimmy Butler will be back either, and the Bulls played like trash in the playoffs even with him. As for the Bucks, nobody knows how Parker will play after coming back, nor is it guaranteed that the Bucks will resign Khris Middleton.

I think that the Atlanta Hawks are still frauds. Wizards are the biggest threat in the division, but they have some injury questions too.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
ESPN article on how GS's strategy to try and reduce injuries in the season worked out for them:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13098001/golden-state-warriors-show-rest-best

The Golden State Warriors were the last ones standing. As bodies broke down all around the NBA this season, it was the Warriors who remained intact.

This wasn't supposed to happen. The Warriors employ so many players who got hit with the "injury prone" label at some point in their careers, whether it was Stephen Curry, Shaun Livingston, Andrew Bogut, Leandro Barbosa or Festus Ezeli.

But in the regular season, the Warriors finished with the fewest minutes lost due to injury in the NBA. And in the postseason, they finished as champions.

Those two facts are not unrelated; the first was a catalyst to an end.

This wasn't all luck. This was all part of the plan: to rest, to recover, to outlast.

Myers stood in the lottery room when another GM of a lottery team put his arm around him.

"Look around, what do you see?" the GM asked like an old sage.

Myers tried to whip back a witty answer, but he had nothing.

"I don't know," Myers said.

"Injuries," the general manager said. "All these teams had injuries."

After the confetti fell on Tuesday night, this was the moment that stuck out to a champagne-soaked Myers. Just three years after taking over general-manager duties for Larry Riley, Myers assembled the healthiest team in the league. According to injury data maintained by ESPN Insider's Kevin Pelton, the Warriors lost only 1,252 minutes due to injury this season, the lowest total in the NBA.

Myers credits the training staff led by Johan Wong and director of athletic performance Keke Lyles and the coaching staff led by Steve Kerr, who rested Curry for 20 fourth quarters when he could have played him more to boost his numbers. In turn, the coaches and trainers credit Myers and ownership for building the roster with the right bodies.

"Well, there's luck," Myers said. "We've had bad luck, too. Two years ago, David [Lee] was out against the Spurs and the Nuggets. Last year, we had no center against the Clippers. So you're in it and you're going to have years when you suffer injuries. And you're going to have years where you stay healthy."

This is Myers trying to deflect credit. But it's no coincidence that the Warriors were the healthiest team.

Golden State holds a competitive advantage. Its secret? The Warriors are based in the Bay Area, the same place where Silicon Valley calls home.


Technology and data analysis are pillars of the Warriors' front office and they make it a point to immerse the numbers and hoops together. For example: the team's stats guy, Sammy Gelfand, rebounds for the players every day rather than getting holed up in a remote office like other teams' analytical gurus.

They're as nerdy as it gets. As clients of wearable technology provider Catapult Sports, the Warriors monitor their players' workloads in practice with GPS monitors and analyze the data with acute attention to maximizing performance while minimizing injury risk.

The latest project: With the training staff, Gelfand and the team's data programmers, the Warriors are engineering a "readiness" rating for each player built on a 0-to-100 scale where 100 is prime shape and 0 is completely burnt out.


The idea is to give Kerr a handy all-in-one metric that aggregates various health indicators, including a daily five-question survey given to the players to help assess their soreness. Simple questions like, "How do you feel?" and "What's your mood?" and "How'd you sleep?" Each question has multiple phrases that the players choose from. Each answer corresponds to a number on a five-point scale. The lower the number, the lower the stress levels.

"It's research," Lyles says of the survey. "The wording in the answers are specific so it gives guys a good guide. Each guy is very individual. I may ask you the same questions. We want a low score. The best score you can have is a five. So let's say your average is an 11, that's your norm after months of doing it. It's 5 to 25. One point for each question.

"You come in, now you have two days that are 18 and 19. Alright, now that's a trigger. He's normally an 11, let's check in. If it's sleep, we'll look at the questions that are bad. We'll look at the travel."

The Warriors noticed that player stress was linked to lack of sleep. So they rescheduled their flights to the day after, not the night of games, so they could sleep in and get a full night's rest.

With the subjective side taken care of, the team then tackles the objective portion. They look at SportVU player-tracking data (for game workloads), Catapult data (for practice workloads) and OmegaWave heart variability data to test neurological stress. With those four inputs, the Warriors have a dashboard to whether a player should give it a go and for how long.

And the players bought in early.


"Really, if you're fatigued or sore, no one wants to feel like crap," Lyles said. "They want to feel better just as much as we want them to feel better. It's not like a head game."

The dashboard was screaming in early March. The indicators told Kerr that the core players were exhausted and red-lining to dangerous levels. So he decided to rest Curry, Thompson, Iguodala and Bogut against the Denver Nuggets on March 17.

Kerr understood fans' complaints that they wanted to see Curry and company in action.

"But I can't base my team's welfare on that," Kerr told reporters after the game in March.

The Warriors hope to aggregate all the fancy data and have the readiness rating completed for the start of next training camp. They continue to tinker with the algorithm to help predict injuries.

"I can't guarantee that'll make them better," Lyles says. "But I will say this: better conditioned guys get injured less, guys who get injured less tend to play more, guys who play more tend to make more money and have longer careers."

Young thinks the NBA is a tougher riddle to solve because there are only five players on the court. Every star means that much more. But preserving their health becomes even more paramount.

"It's going to be very difficult to change the fatigue culture in the NBA," Young said. "It's a lot easier to change in other sports where you have more than five guys on the field or the court at any one time. What you're seeing is that a Jordan or a LeBron they can go and be the top-four in the league just by themselves even surrounded by total duds."

Young is happy to see Adam Silver making it a priority to cut down on back-to-backs and four-in-fives. Rather than resting James in Finals games, Young hopes the league preempts that conversation.

"I think it's more realistic that the league smartens up and shortens up the season or looking at the scheduling to make it a little more favorable in terms of travel," he said.

In the end, though, the Warriors' MVP wasn't Curry or Iguodala. It was the organizational commitment to health -- both of body and mind.

When Cavs fans cheered on their team, the injuries were the first words uttered like a caveat. Then they spoke of James. Because of player health, the Cavs had the roster depth of a puddle. In the 23 minutes that James didn't play in this series, J.R. Smith, Matthew Dellavedova, James Jones and Iman Shumpert combined for 0-for-21 shooting.

The depth of the Warriors was the reason they outlasted the rest of their peers. When everyone else's stars suffered injuries this season, the Warriors were the last ones standing as a full squad.

As the NBA saying goes, the best ability is availability.

"You have to capitalize on health," Myers said. "Because in this league, you just don't know."

I suspect other teams will follow suit next season.
 
ESPN article on how GS's strategy to try and reduce injuries in the season worked out for them:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13098001/golden-state-warriors-show-rest-best


I suspect other teams will follow suit next season.

You have to have a requisite amount of depth to make that happen. There aren't many teams that can sit their starting 5 and play 5 bench players that could have been starting somewhere else in the leauge.

GS, SAS, ATL, maybe one or two others teams? Really not an option for most teams if they want to win.
 

Fjordson

Member
Kobe Bryant ‏@kobebryant 4h4 hours ago
When the players you've known since they were preteens beat the vet you've known since he was a teen #vetsvet #CongratsWarriors #ThisIsNOW

Kobe is a really good follow on twitter lol. Really smart and surprisingly funny. Not sure if he has any interest in it, but I would love to see him doing TV work after he retires.

does anyone have a gif of draymond and steph looking at each other and saying WHAT

i must relive that moment
I was looking for that. No luck yet.
 

Fjordson

Member
CHumOZiUAAAIaYx.jpg


Perfect.
 

Vyer

Member
I have a few things to say.

Lebron is 2-4 in the finals, and hes lucky, as it was sooooooooo close to 1-5.
I think he is a good all around player, I give him a lot of credit for playing the right way, but I don't think he is the King of anything. He need to have an Allstar supporting cast to have success. Guess what? next year he will be 1 year older. I can see him making the finals again, but his window is not going to last for ever, and his jump shot while nice at times, is not going to get better at 34.

Now I am not going lie, I am not a fan of his, never have been. I appreciate those who earn their greatness,, and are not anointed "Kings" take for example Kobe Bryant, who was drafted as an unknown, an unproven commodity, yet worked his craft into 5 rings. I have a lot of respect for Time Duncan.

Lebron for what ever reason is looked at as the best player in history, I do not agree nor understand that at all. Don't think I ever will. Perhaps the later generations will not look at him with rose colored glasses and instead will call him for what he is/was. A good player who got to the finals several times and lost a bunch of times, a guy who had to be carried by Wade to two rings. If he doesn't have a killer on his team, he can't win. His jump shot wont allow him to.

Lol

The stanning of 'unknown' Kobe Bryant is the icing on the cake.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You have to have a requisite amount of depth to make that happen. There aren't many teams that can sit their starting 5 and play 5 bench players that could have been starting somewhere else in the leauge.

GS, SAS, ATL, maybe one or two others teams? Really not an option for most teams if they want to win.

I meant the fatigue tracking part. Sure, most teams won't be able to sit their entire starting lineup, but you can rest 1 or 2 guys more strategically with more data at hand. Some of the other stuff like rescheduling flights can also be done relatively easily.
 
Kobe is a really good follow on twitter lol. Really smart and surprisingly funny. Not sure if he has any interest in it, but I would love to see him doing TV work after he retires.


I was looking for that. No luck yet.

He'd probably be better than Shaq, which is something I never would've thought possible a few years ago.
 

Fjordson

Member
He'd probably be better than Shaq, which is something I never would've thought possible a few years ago.
Totally. Shaq as a player was one of the GOAT personalities in sports. But I think he kinda bought into that too much maybe? Like he took his personality and humour and just dialed it up all the way. It's just too much now. I've had Shaq fatigue for a while now tbh.

Kobe, at least so far, is way more reserved and not like goofy funny, but sort of sarcastic. I think he'd be damn good on TV.
 

Fjordson

Member
Wtf. Zach Lowe's newest article about the Warriors has a blurb about Mark Jackson with some stuff I didn't even know about.

Kerr overhauled a team culture that had grown poisonous, for well-documented reasons, under Jackson and his assistants. In his zeal to motivate players, Jackson fostered resentment among them and toward the front office. He fired two assistants, requested Jerry West stay away from practices, and asked a younger front-office official to stop rebounding for players, sources have said.

When Ezeli was injured last season, Jackson and his staff told the healthy players that Ezeli was cheering against them — so that he would look good, according to several team sources. Players confronted Ezeli in a meeting, and he wept at the accusation — which he denied.

Jackson is so wack lol. Super glad he's gone.
 

Fjordson

Member
He told The Logo to stay away from practices...a 77 year old Jerry West. What did he think he was gonna steal his job? What a clown.
 

charsace

Member
and people thought Jackson got a raw deal. Dude was in over his head. I told you guys the Warriors underachieved under him.

He deserves some credit. He brought a defensive mindset to the team and everybody's second round darling Draymond seems to be a guy that Jackson wanted because he played him a lot.
 
Wtf. Zach Lowe's newest article about the Warriors has a blurb about Mark Jackson with some stuff I didn't even know about.



Jackson is so wack lol. Super glad he's gone.

That dude was always cock on the Knicks and the Pacers. MJ bounced a ball off that dudes head cuz he was so annoying with that tit jiggle celebration.
 

Omega

Banned
c8okT6C.png


Curry Lol.

Technically OKC avoided the playoffs

and yeah let's hold it against GSW that the playoffs aren't round robin. Maybe if Spurs properly closed out the season or didn't lose to the Clippers in the first round we would know. Or if Clippers didn't choke up 3-1 that would matter as well.

but he's right, I'm sure the Warriors are thanking the gods they avoided a team that lost to Josh Smith and Corey Brewer.
 

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Technically OKC avoided the playoffs

and yeah let's hold it against GSW that the playoffs aren't round robin. Maybe if Spurs properly closed out the season or didn't lose to the Clippers in the first round we would know. Or if Clippers didn't choke up 3-1 that would matter as well.

but he's right, I'm sure the Warriors are thanking the gods they avoided a team that lost to Josh Smith and Corey Brewer.

Eh, I honestly have to say, he's kind of right. Not to say that they wouldn't have won anyway, but they were pretty lucky with the injuries to their opponents. You can only beat the opponents in front of you though.
 

Fjordson

Member
The injured point guard thing is so dumb. Patrick fucking Beverly or Jrue Holiday would not have changed either series.

Kyrie Irving is basically the only "luck" Golden State ran into. Even though the guy's been brittle since college. All that other shit Skip mentioned makes zero sense.
 

AcridMeat

Banned
Finally home from LA. I still can't believe this week.
Can't believe the Warriors did it! Man, I remember following the Warriors since the early 90's. Does anyone remember these guys?

Chris Gatling
Tom Gugliotta
Donyell Marshall !!!!
Andrew DeClerq
Joe Smith
Rony Seikaly
Latrell Sprewell
Chris Webber
Todd Fuller
Troy Murphy

I'll stop there. Good times.

It was fun following these threads through the playoffs. My NBA Playoffs Thread MVP vote goes to Ninja Scooter
Don't forget Muggsy Bogues, Tony Delk and Mookie Blaylock!!!!!!

Mother flipping Larry Hughes and Gilbert Arenas.

I legitimately liked Donyell Marshall a lot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom