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[clarky]

No

Upping the framerate costs more than just graphics.

One day you muppets will realise this not today though.

Solid 30fps is fine. I've played Silent Hill 2 in 30fps it was really jarring at first but after the initial shock I haven't thought about it in 20 hours.

Again Snake Eater was 30fps MGS2 was 60fps. Snake Eater eventually got 60fps Metal Gear Solid 2 will forever have shit boxy level design.

Fine for you, you muppet.

 

[rm082e]

As a 44yo who plays single-player games, I can barely tell a difference between 60 and 120. I cannot tell any difference between 120 and 165 (my monitor's max refresh).

My son is into very twitchy games and says he feels a huge difference between 60 and 120, and can tell a difference between 120 and 165. Seems like it's very dependent on the individual.

I'd be happy if all console games were required to have a mode where they could hold a consistent 40fps. That would be enough of a minimum bar of performance for me.

 

[Sanepar]

30 fps should not be part of game design. Scale graphics to run at 60 fps.

 

[RoboFu]

I only ever play at 60 fps. Anytime I set it to over I don't see much of a difference. but yeah 30 fps should be shunned.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

30 is absolutely fine.

 

[Represent.]

Always funny to see someone pretend their personal preference is somehow "objective". Doesn't matter. PlayStation gamers pick performance mode 75% of the time so your take is the minority.

PS5 Players Choose Performance Mode 75% of the Time

Peak performance

www.pushsquare.com

It could be 100% of players.

What i said is still fact. Framerate requires everything else to be dumbed down. And games run at sub 720p in 2024.

Garbage

 

[Topher]

After playing the latest and greatest 60fps should be a minimum 120 the standard and 240hz the best seriously if you say I’m crazy you have not played on a 240hz OLED screen it’s just glorious!!!! I cannot even imagine how smooth a 360hz monitor and higher would look in person.

The great thing about PC gaming is that anyone can customize their experience to whatever they want. There really isn't a "minimum". Path tracing will bring my PC down into the 30s and so if I'm fine with that then that's just up to me.

Personally, I think 60 fps is the sweet spot for both image quality and frame rate. Of course, if I were playing competitive online games then obviously I would want higher frame rates. But for my single player games, 60 fps is fine.

On consoles, as long as we have a performance mode then I'm happy. Those who want quality modes should have them. And there really shouldn't be any debate about that. Most folks pick performance modes and so they should absolutely have that option. There are a few bizarre individuals here that believe they should not have the option and people should be force to play at 30fps. Those takes are simply absurd.

Speak of the devil.....

It could be 100% of players.

What i said is still fact. Framerate requires everything else to be dumbed down. And games run at sub 720p in 2024.

Garbage

And yet when I play at 30fps I see a flickering mess. The lack of fluid motion ruins the image. That's what I see. Yes. visual quality must be reduced, but that is not what you said. You said higher frames make "everything objectively worse". That is not a fact. That is your subjective opinion. You really need to learn the difference.

 

[clarky]

It could be 100% of players.

What i said is still fact. Framerate requires everything else to be dumbed down. And games run at sub 720p in 2024.

Garbage

Only if you are a peasant.

 

[The artful mincer]

Fine for you, you muppet.

It's so great being such an alpha male that a game being 30fps doesn't send me crying to the internet!

 

[Topher]

It's so great being such an alpha male that a game being 30fps doesn't send me crying to the internet!

But lower graphical fidelity does.

 

[clarky]

It's so great being such an alpha male that a game being 30fps doesn't send me crying to the internet!

Only tears im detecting are the 30fps ones coming from your eyes.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Yall need to realize 240hz and fps are not the same thing....

 

[DryvBy]

Yeah and you were also likely playing those low framerate games on a CRT. This is something people often forget. CRT is far far far superior at handling 30 fps than any LCD.

People make up that 30fps is a) unplayable and b) old games were always 60fps. Just flat out lies.

I prefer 60fps but I'm not a moron.

 

[OverHeat]

Yall need to realize 240hz and fps are not the same thing....

 

[The artful mincer]

On consoles, as long as we have a performance mode then I'm happy. Those who want quality modes should have them. And there really shouldn't be any debate about that. Most folks pick performance modes and so they should absolutely have that option. There are a few bizarre individuals here that believe they should not have the option and people should be force to play at 30fps. Those takes are simply absurd.

But what if 60fps seriously compromises game design? E.g. Could Tears of the Kingdom exist on the Switch at 60fps?

 

[mrqs]

No

 

[Imtjnotu]

After playing the latest and greatest 60fps should be a minimum 120 the standard and 240hz the best seriously if you say I’m crazy you have not played on a 240hz OLED screen it’s just glorious!!!! I cannot even imagine how smooth a 360hz monitor and higher would look in person.

You bro... I'm talking to you lol

 

[Represent.]

Only if you are a peasant.

Games look better at lower framerates on all platforms.

 

[clarky]

But what if 60fps seriously compromises game design? E.g. Could Tears of the Kingdom exist on the Switch at 60fps?

It already exists on PC mate, its glorious. No compromises detected.

 

[OverHeat]

You bro... I'm talking to you lol

I sync my framerate to my refresh rate 90% of the time…

 

[clarky]

Games look better at lower framerates on all platforms.

All games look the same for me doesn't matter if its 10FPS or 100FPS.

 

[existensmaximum]

I think 30 fps is fine for many types of games and often prefer it to 60 fps

Especially when it comes to animation and cutscenes. Each to their own.

 

[Topher]

But what if 60fps seriously compromises game design? E.g. Could Tears of the Kingdom exist on the Switch at 60fps?

No idea. Doesn't matter nearly as much on a 7 inch screen in my experience with handhelds. When I'm playing a game on my 55" 4K TV then I want to be able to play at 60fps. On PS5 and XSX, there is no sacrifice in "game design" here.

So why do you believe you should be able to dictate whether I can play at 30 or 60fps?

 

[Topher]

Games look better at lower framerates on all platforms.

The only mode that should be allowed in any game is photo mode.

edit: now you are triggered. lol

 

[nkarafo]

40fps VRR is the lowest i can go with modern games.

 

[The artful mincer]

It already exists on PC mate, its glorious. No compromises detected.

But couldn't exist on switch.... any game can be 60fps if you throw enough power and money at it.

Put another way if Nintendo targeted 60fps on switch it would have been worse less ambitious game that you would have played on PC. Your lucky that Nintendo targeted 30fps

 

[DoubleClutch]

I hope everyone knows image quality is more than pure Hz. Pixel response for example is very important. Some cheap monitors are high refresh rate but have a lot of smearing,

 

[clarky]

But couldn't exist on switch.... any game can be 60fps if you throw enough power and money at it.

Thats how we roll.

Put another way if Nintendo targeted 60fps on switch it would have been worse less ambitious game that you would have played on PC. Your lucky that Nintendo targeted 30fps

It was designed within the limitations of the hardware.

 

[clarky]

I hope everyone knows image quality is more than pure Hz. Pixel response for example is very important. Some cheap monitors are high refresh rate but have a lot of smearing,

Welcome to DoubleClutches TED talk everyone.

Not quite sure who you are talking to though.

 

[Topher]

But couldn't exist on switch.... any game can be 60fps if you throw enough power and money at it.

Put another way if Nintendo targeted 60fps on switch it would have been worse less ambitious game that you would have played on PC. Your lucky that Nintendo targeted 30fps

Ok.....so let's say you are right. That is an outlier so remove it from the equation. The vast majority of game designs are not affected by a performance mode. Are you against non-Switch games having perf modes?

 

[Ulysses 31]

40fps VRR is the lowest i can go with modern games.

30 fps with Samsung's game motion plus is also tolerable.

 

[clarky]

30 fps with Samsung's game motion plus is also terrible.

FTFY.

 

[Minsc]

There's a reason you can't find many if any games that run at 30fps in the fighting (like Tekken, SF, etc), racing (GT, Wipeout) and rhythm genres (like Theatrhythm, guitar hero, synth rider, etc).

And that reason is simply because 30fps is shit, and would sell for shit.

Imagine they release a new WipEout game or a new Tekken game, and the framerate was 30fps. Shit would get roasted to no end.

 

[Ulysses 31]

FTFY.

Naw man, without it, 30 fps motion is a blur and stutter fest. Between having it on or off, on is the better experience. Might be because I have a 2024 TV but motion artifacts is almost completely gone.

 

[Rush2112]

As a 44yo who plays single-player games, I can barely tell a difference between 60 and 120. I cannot tell any difference between 120 and 165 (my monitor's max refresh).

My son is into very twitchy games and says he feels a huge difference between 60 and 120, and can tell a difference between 120 and 165. Seems like it's very dependent on the individual.

I'd be happy if all console games were required to have a mode where they could hold a consistent 40fps. That would be enough of a minimum bar of performance for me.

It also depends on the kind of game. It might be more obvious in FPS, especially online when you get that critical kill.

 

[The artful mincer]

No idea. Doesn't matter nearly as much on a 7 inch screen in my experience with handhelds. When I'm playing a game on my 55" 4K TV then I want to be able to play at 60fps. On PS5 and XSX, there is no sacrifice in "game design" here.

So why do you believe you should be able to dictate whether I can play at 30 or 60fps?

You miss understand me I don't care what anyone plays.

I care about interesting ambitious game design.

I feel like expecting/mandating every game to have a performance mode may compromise this. Maybe it won't, maybe these consoles have enough grunt and dev tools are flexible enough that's it's reasonable to always include both. If that's the case then great. ( I expect it wasn't feasible in previous generations )

If 30fps is really that bad can't you not just vote with your wallet or buy a pro/ high end pc?

 

[clarky]

Naw man, without it, 30 fps motion is a blur and stutter fest. Between having it on or off, on is the better experience. Might be because I have a 2024 TV but motion artifacts is almost completely gone.

Does that not introduce massive lag? I don't game on samsung tv's so wouldn't know.

 

[Hrk69]

30 fps is fine

 

[Exede]

I'm a generation X gamer. I played new games with like 15fps. I'm ok with 30fps, i simply cant see much of a difference to 60 at all. Make games 60fps is ok, just make em more beautiful to look at for my old eyes.

 

[The artful mincer]

Ok.....so let's say you are right. That is an outlier so remove it from the equation. The vast majority of game designs are not affected by a performance mode. Are you against non-Switch games having perf modes?

I already answered you in more detail in another post.

But to sum up I think the devs should choose and let the market decide.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Does that not introduce massive lag? I don't game on samsung tv's so wouldn't know.

The game motion plus adds very little lag. The "normal" motion plus adds very noticeable lag.

You don't get the full motion interpolation in game mode but enough to noticeably reduce stutter and get sharper motion clarity.

 

[clarky]

30 fps is fine

It really isn't.

Go play Halo on the OG xbox or the old COD's then come back and say its fine.

 

[Schmendrick]

People make up that 30fps is a) unplayable and b) old games were always 60fps. Just flat out lies.

I prefer 60fps but I'm not a moron.

Or maybe you're a moron after all for not realising that 30fps have gradually gotten worse to play at the lower the response times of sample and hold type TVs have become. 30fps on an OLED are absolute garbage in motion unless you use so much motion blur that you could just as well smear vaseline over your eyes....

 

[Minsc]

I'm a generation X gamer. I played new games with like 15fps. I'm ok with 30fps, i simply cant see much of a difference to 60 at all. Make games 60fps is ok, just make em more beautiful to look at for my old eyes.

Buy a few racing games and set them to 30fps then turn the framerate to 120fps or 60fps and they'll feel like completely different games. I think it speaks volumes that pretty much every single Mario Kart game Nintendo has released (except maybe a handheld one perhaps) has targeted 60fps even on the weak Nintendo hardware they are on.

 

[Ulysses 31]

It really isn't.

Go play Halo on the OG xbox or the old COD's then come back and say its fine.

To be fair, when those consoles were mainstream the displays weren't the sample-and-hold ones of today that suffer the lower the fps is.

 

[The artful mincer]

Thats how we roll.


It was designed within the limitations of the hardware.

Right...

As long as you realise you would likely have played a shiter game if Nintendo had targeted 60fps on Switch...we have no argument here.

P.S. my muppet comment was only for a bit of fun and not meant to offend

 

[Topher]

You miss understand me I don't care what anyone plays.

I care about interesting ambitious game design.

I feel like expecting/mandating every game to have a performance mode may compromise this. Maybe it won't, maybe these consoles have enough grunt and dev tools are flexible enough that's it's reasonable to always include both. If that's the case then great. ( I expect it wasn't feasible in previous generations )

But this idea is that higher frame rates are getting in the way of "ambitious game design" is just false for the vast majority of games. But yeah, if a game dev comes out and says they are making a physics based game and due to CPU limitations 60 fps is not possible then I have no problem with that. But it needs to be something more than just lowering fidelity, imo, to take away that option. Lowering fidelity is merely adjusting settings and resolution to get higher frames. Stuff PC gamers do all the time. On consoles, performance mode is just a preset of those same exact settings.

If 30fps is really that bad can't you not just vote with your wallet or buy a pro/ high end pc?

You can too. Buy a PC and you can increase the fidelity to whatever level you want, frame rates be damned.

I already answered you in more detail in another post.

But to sum up I think the devs should choose and let the market decide.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be dictated either way. Devs should choose, but since 3/4 of gamers choose higher performance, I think the market has already made it clear what they want.

All I'm saying is people should have the option to choose for most games.

 

[clarky]

Right...

As long as you realise you would likely have played a shiter game if Nintendo had targeted 60fps on Switch...we have no argument here.

P.S. my muppet comment was only for a bit of fun and not meant to offend

What i meant was it was designed with the hardware in mind, targeting 60 would just be a completely different game.

No offence fella btw. Giving grief and taking it is half the fun on this board.

 

[clarky]

To be fair, when those consoles were mainstream the displays weren't the sample-and-hold ones of today that suffer the lower the fps is.

On a CRT they still play like shit, but I get your point.

 

[Exede]

Buy a few racing games and set them to 30fps then turn the framerate to 120fps or 60fps and they'll feel like completely different games. I think it speaks volumes that pretty much every single Mario Kart game Nintendo has released (except maybe a handheld one perhaps) has targeted 60fps even on the weak Nintendo hardware they are on.

Maybe that's why I don't see a difference, I don't play racing games