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60% of playtime went to games 6 years and older...
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Surprise!
Many of the modern releases these days are filled with shit writing that pales against the satire, and ridiculousness of the 90s and early to mid 2000-teens.
Also developing games with Diversity, Equity and Inclusion in mind usually ruins them. Sometimes I want to go back to silent protagonist because of the shit VA pool I am forced to listen to, and even then, if I can, I usually switch languages, because the VAs are usually grating to my auditory nerves.
I find myself playing through almost every game I've beaten in the last 35 years, minus a few outliers.
Seems accurate. I feel older games tend to have more replay value than newer games, as well. Especially if MFers are going to do stupid shit in the future, like charging for save slots or NG+, where they used to stuff games with features like these to give their games lasting value.
Not all new games are shit, but, the shittier they make them, the easier it is to skip them and in the end, save more money. I still enjoy gaming immensely, but I'm awiser Wise person now. 
Many of the modern releases these days are filled with shit writing that pales against the satire, and ridiculousness of the 90s and early to mid 2000-teens.
Also developing games with Diversity, Equity and Inclusion in mind usually ruins them. Sometimes I want to go back to silent protagonist because of the shit VA pool I am forced to listen to, and even then, if I can, I usually switch languages, because the VAs are usually grating to my auditory nerves.
I find myself playing through almost every game I've beaten in the last 35 years, minus a few outliers.
Seems accurate. I feel older games tend to have more replay value than newer games, as well. Especially if MFers are going to do stupid shit in the future, like charging for save slots or NG+, where they used to stuff games with features like these to give their games lasting value.
Not all new games are shit, but, the shittier they make them, the easier it is to skip them and in the end, save more money. I still enjoy gaming immensely, but I'm a
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TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yes I don't no why it didn't link to overall like the first time I saw it but the full list is listed here
New shows are in there but are below the top ten in views for the year
So overall and acquired looks the same.
I suppose having more episodes helps but still.
This year isn't much different with the exception of Avatar: The Last Airbender being the most watched & Young Sheldon making the top ten but the majority of those in that list are still in the top ten
ThatPolishGuy
Member
Witcher 3 was example how to make RPGs with open world not a chore. But not all devs AAA can replicate that. Budgets have also skyrocketed since then.
Hell even CDPR with launch Cyberpunk 2077 didn't make it from the get-go. The game is patched so it's now worth to play it.
But wasn't DLC for Cyberpunk as long as Spider-Man 2 for a friction of it's budget and well received? Dunno, I haven't played it still.
Hmm, and what do you say about state of industry after Cyberpunk? A lot of big titles release with issues "to be patched later" state.
Obviously Rockstar games have the musle and tech and also they do a lot of mechanics and details in a lot of their games... They pull off an open world which feels filled, fun, and not bloated. But this is not a norm.
AA studios will do just fine, I think. Let's wait for Judas or Clockwork Revolution. To see if games like that are dead. I suspect not.
Also I see you are literally taking any game as I mention for all industry to go in that direction.
That is not my point. I also don't want every dev to make Uncharted copy.
The point is, more diverse games. Not only pumping big open world titles. But they should remain- I started playing Rise of The Ronin for example. I'm curious to see how it compares to Ubisoft AC bloated formula.
There are a lot of different more linear games that gamers would want. AA or AAA.
From fun shooters like Doom or Shadow Warrior.
To horror games, like Dead Space or Callisto Protocol but in more polished state with fun combat(which it did not have hence world of mouth was not so great) and no issues with optimalization or shader compilation. Honestly if it was done a little better it would sell. It wasn't so the word of mouth was to wait for sale or don't buy it at all. But that's on devs I think. Still I had enjoyed Callisto despite it's issues very very much. Didn't play DLC though.
Stealth genre was pretty big back in the day. It's dead. But maybe Splinter Cell remake will move the needle.
The thing is I personally think that stealth games or immersive sims should be Indie (like boomer shooters on older engines) or AA productions. This way they would be profitable. Pushing AAA budgets in concepts that sell on 3.5 or 4 mil copies is a bad idea. But this games should exist one way or the other. With lower budgets, maybe even simpler graphics along side big open world games like they did back in the day. Only then they could push graphics too but now, not so much - designing the game with this in mind should make them fun and profitable.
Deus Ex Human Revolution was not a graphics power horse at the date of release and it was polished, and gameplay was fun.
Mankind divided pushed graphics but had shit optimalization and I think the game suffered- also it did more of the same, only felt like we got story progress at the end of the game which was well poorly written. Hence I suspect it didn't sell well.
Back in the day we had more diverse games and gamers want that and miss that, I think and it doesn't mean that every game has to go in that direction. Different games can co-exist. Don't me wrong.
I'm curious to see if Gothic Remake sells. It's open world but the original was oldschool well written complete game that did not feel bloated. And was really well designed although some mechanics are archaic today.
Graphics look nice enough in remake- nothing ground pushing so maybe more budget will get allocated to actually make fun and playable game, not broken on launch.
But lately it feels like we get remakes after remakes, like it's hard to actually design new and fun game linear, semi-open or open world. Shame.
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Hudo
Member
They're getting pretty good at long development times! Working on one game for 8+ years is quite the skill of endurance!
xrnzaaas
Member
I can definitely see this hapenning in my case. I've played a lot of older games in the last few years, whether it's remasters, ports or original releases. This is especially noticeable if I look at my XSX play history it's mostly BC 360 games with only a few newer releases.
The actual gameplay is often better in older titles, they don't force any ideologies on me and I'm not super upset if the graphics are seriously outdated.
The actual gameplay is often better in older titles, they don't force any ideologies on me and I'm not super upset if the graphics are seriously outdated.
Zheph
Member
Because you play Fortnite all the time?
This modern gaming bashing has nothing to do with the topic here lol
Rivdoric
Member
Never played any of these games lol.
I just meant that for a lot of reasons the new games have far less appeal to me than the old ones
.
Zheph
Member
and that is fine but the topic is about how GaaS like Fortnite, GTAO, Rocket League or LoL are monopolising gametime despite being 6+ yoNever played any of these games lol.
I just meant that for a lot of reasons the new games have far less appeal to me than the old ones
but I am curious, what is stopping you for trying AW2? It's not really my jam but it does look alright?
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
They are better at many things, but none of them are positives for the consumer.
SaucyJack
Member
Kacho
Gold Member
This thread is a prime example of "people only read the thread title"
vaibhavpisal
Member
A space game that loads new planet when you go to a new planet.Half of it being loading screens
Totally bizarre. I agree.
Zheph
Member
Its much worst than I tho
I feel bad for people making elaborate threads
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Evidence? Like the multiple live service games that have come out recently and bombed? That evidence?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
That's called anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is not convincing to anyone with room temp IQ. It's convincing only for people who already subscribe to a particular belief and don't want to be challenged on said belief.
RickMasters
Member
I’m feeling a similar sentiment, these days. It’s strange because games look like I hoped dreamed they would one day. We have surpassed toy story visuals… and that’s the norm for most games these days….. yet somehow. I can’t get excited for any of them anymore. I still enjoy games, but I’m finding myself more and more playing arcade classics ( especially shmups, and 90s fighting games)…. 90s Japanese action games… for some reason I’m appreciating them more lately ( especially the music in them!) something is missing in gaming, but I’m also thinking maybe its me. The last game to truly make me go wow was star citizen….. but I’ll never invest the time needed to do anything cool in that game so I’ll never play it.
RickMasters
Member
To be honest the only single player games that have interested me in recent times is cyber punk 2097, Elden ring and armoured core 6.
Looking forward to that new capcom game I seen at the Xbox partners event. I forget the name of it. But that game is on my radar. Everything else is just…. Not really that exciting these days.
Looking forward to that new capcom game I seen at the Xbox partners event. I forget the name of it. But that game is on my radar. Everything else is just…. Not really that exciting these days.
Guilty_AI
Member
K, here's data evidence from steam then.
Data from steam games, sorted by revenue median, which basically means how much someone right in the middle of the pack makes within that particular tag, and only including genres with 1000 games accounted for or more for higher precision:
How much does MMOs make?
As you can see, you have a small selection on the top making millions whereas the vast majority makes so little it can't even calculate a proper revenue.
Let's see an specific genres and tags from multiplayer games:
hhmmm
Now lets take a look at tags belonging to games that are undoubtedly from singleplayer games:
WOW
, what a surprise, these kinds of games have a much higher chance of making money!
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
K, here's data evidence from steam then.
Data from steam games, sorted by revenue median, which basically means how much someone right in the middle of the pack makes within that particular tag, and only including genres with 1000 games accounted for or more for higher precision:
How much does MMOs make?
As you can see, you have a small selection on the top making millions whereas the vast majority makes so little it can't even calculate a proper revenue.
Let's see an specific genres and tags from multiplayer games:
hhmmm
Now lets take a look at tags belonging to games that are undoubtedly from singleplayer games:
WOW
We're starting to beat a dead horse here.
I already agree with you that it's more difficult to make a successful Live Service game. At this point you should know what my response is going to be...
1. I'm sure the above data would have looked very similar in the early 1900s. You had a much high chance of making money by breeding and selling horses than you would by trying to create an internal combustion engine with wheels. Yet Ford, Volkswagen, and Toyota soon dominated the personal transportation space by doing the risky, difficult thing (cars). Live Service is no different. Markets don't grow in the way you think they do.
2. Your charts are an example of lying with statistics. Why would PlayStation, EA, WB, Blizzard, Activision, Ubisoft etc look at the top 1,000 games in a particular field when they're only competing with the cream at the top? Successful people and companies learn from other successful people and companies, not the panhandlers asking for money at traffic signals.
Now you must ask yourself, are you trying to learn and grow a deeper understanding of this topic or are you trying to win? The later bores me.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Then lets put it this way:
-Single-player traditional games -> Safe investments. Low-medium risk, low-medium return. With some market research and budget control you can make one or many reasonably successful games.
-GAAS/strong multiplayer focus -> Risky investment. Very high-risk, very high-return. Making a game in this venue does NOT guarantee you return, no matter how much market research or investment you put in. To be successful you'd usually have to release multiple games within different genres and hope something sticks, or be very lucky.
As such, most games in the second category fail. Whereas games on the first category are more commonly successful.
Looking at the highest earners you also see they're very old games, suggesting breaking through the market is also very difficult to do as people keep coming back to their "comfort" games and new companies have to offer some value that isn't already in there.
Now, knowing all of this, do you really think companies will go all out on such risky investments? They try for sure, but they need a safe-net. Tradional single-player games are this safe net, their more guaranteed source of revenue.
And thats why, my friend, single player games will never go away, why companies will never stop investing on them in favor of MP and GAAS. Why GAAS and MP isn't "the future of gaming".
Can we agree on this much?
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I’m part of the problem.
I play PoE leagues for “new” content. New releases this year I was excited for I still haven’t picked up like unicorn overlord, ff7R, and yakuza.
I’ve been far more content playing MGS2&3, DMC3&4, no more heroes 1&2, and ninja gaiden 1-3.
I’m looking to get some time with super Metroid for the first time ever.
New games suck 99% of the time.
I play PoE leagues for “new” content. New releases this year I was excited for I still haven’t picked up like unicorn overlord, ff7R, and yakuza.
I’ve been far more content playing MGS2&3, DMC3&4, no more heroes 1&2, and ninja gaiden 1-3.
I’m looking to get some time with super Metroid for the first time ever.
New games suck 99% of the time.
Wildebeest
Member
I don't know if this data is worth anything. There are a huge amount of game listings on steam that nobody has any reason to care about, so from the start the list should be filtered by something like having 100+ user reviews. Then you have to filter out games that are listed but are early access or coming soon (which should be excluded by reviews). But you do that, then are the numbers of games statistically significant? Then you have to deal with people gaming the heck out of the tag system or just randomly adding meme tags for good luck.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Seriously?
Guilty_AI
Member
This:
Why Single Player Gamers shouldn't fear the GAAS Revolution...
I know that title triggered some but I want you to notice how I capitalized "Single Player Gamers" as a show of respect and good faith. I'm a multiplayer gamer but am your brother, whether you want to believe it or not. Think the dark blue water Navi and the light blue jungle Navi from Avatar...
Unless you mean to say you changed your visions since
BossLackey
Gold Member
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This:
Why Single Player Gamers shouldn't fear the GAAS Revolution...
I know that title triggered some but I want you to notice how I capitalized "Single Player Gamers" as a show of respect and good faith. I'm a multiplayer gamer but am your brother, whether you want to believe it or not. Think the dark blue water Navi and the light blue jungle Navi from Avatar...www.neogaf.com
Unless you mean to say you changed your visions since
That post is probably the greatest thread NeoGAF has ever seen. We've been inundated with comments over the last 2 months from people saying "I don't like multiplayer LS but I bought Helldivers 2 and am loving it."
"Why single player gamers shouldn't fear the GAAS revolution" has been validated. GAAS is going to pull more and more SP gamers as it grows.
But your post above (that we both agree on) doesn't negate that idea.
You've identified the difficulties in making a LS game but those difficulties have always existed and the LS market has grown and grown. You don't seem to be willing to address the continued growth of the LS market. That's a separate issue.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
In fact thanks to your threads I hate GaaS garbage even more which I didn't think it was possible.