737Max: Boy sitting in row 26 had his t-shirt sucked off him while his mother was holding on to him - Alaska Airlines flight B39M

Chittagong said:
You are right. I was in "business" (same seats with middle seat free) and it was a fairly snug fit as I am 190cm as well.
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Its such a shame tho, I love planes, but in recent years travelling by them its more pain than fun.
 
More good news! The subcontractor that builds the fuselages have finished audit and detected flaws in two thirds of units in construction, can't guarantee delivered units are free of this fault 🤣

Boeing and the subcontractor acknowledge this is not a safety hazard, just out of spec.
 
Bitmap Frogs said:
More good news! The subcontractor that builds the fuselages have finished audit and detected flaws in two thirds of units in construction, can't guarantee delivered units are free of this fault 🤣

Boeing and the subcontractor acknowledge this is not a safety hazard, just out of spec.
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Not a safety hazard.....a piece of the fusel lodge fell off in flight. What a spin job.
 
AJUMP23 said:
Not a safety hazard.....a piece of the fusel lodge fell off in flight. What a spin job.
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What a shit show.

jufonuk said:
www.bbc.com

Boeing in ‘last chance saloon’, warns Emirates boss

Sir Tim Clark criticises the plane-maker after a panel on a Boeing 737 Max 9 jet blew out in the air.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Seems kind of relevant now.

Maybe this could happen but I'm thinking
If Ryanair go for airbus for the main aircraft (not for lauda air) Boeing will be screwed.
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The problem for Boeing is that developing a new plane is a whopping 20+ billions and 5-10 years. They have to ride it out come what it may.
 
Bitmap Frogs said:
The problem for Boeing is that developing a new plane is a whopping 20+ billions and 5-10 years. They have to ride it out come what it may.
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This is Boeing were talking about though. They are to important and the government will simply pour money into them if they start wavering.
 
Kadve said:
This is Boeing were talking about though. They are to important and the government will simply pour money into them if they start wavering.
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I dont think Boeing will ever go away but it doesnt change the fact that they are already on the backfoot. The A320Neo came out of nowhere and they had no aircraft to compete with that, so they ran with 737Max but still years later to the market. The 787 was delayed and A350 swooped in a couple fo years before. 777-X is like almost 10 years in certification process, just passed. Im a boeing fan but its very obvious the decisions they made, cost them so much time. Waiting too long for an aircraft, your customers will turn to the competition for new planes and that is what is happening now.

These accidents and issues from the inside of the company are just makint things even worse. They arent going to go bankrupt, but Airbus took over a huge market share and right now the mainstream media when they hear the word "Boeing" , they associate it with accidents which is never a good thing.
 
Pegasus Actual said:


In case you're a psycho like me and like to watch a 40+ minute video on literally any air incident
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During my student pilot days, watching Air Crash Investigations was almost like a ritual for me. It really hammered home the point for me that skipping checklists and getting too comfortable can lead to trouble, especially when things get hectic and the workload for pilots and crew ramps up. It served as a stark reminder that these checklists, protocols, and processes exist for very good reasons. They weren't designed jto make pilots' lives harder but to ensure safety and efficiency in every flight operation.
 
Man, as someone who's worked in quality over the years, that story was quite infuriating. If their QMS or the people running is letting shit like that through, it's time to clean house.
 
Thaedolus said:
Man, as someone who's worked in quality over the years, that story was quite infuriating. If their QMS or the people running is letting shit like that through, it's time to clean house.
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I'm also worried about the hundreds of 737 MAX which have already been built and are in active service today. How many of those planes are another crash killing hundreds of people waiting to happen?
 
Anyone else fly a 737 Max since the accident? I just flew one yesterday (and sat in the emergency row exit...cuz...long legs!) and wasn't worried. The act of taking a flight is such an act of trust in human systems getting stuff right. I'm glad I flew after they understood the problem....(and yes I realize it is possible there are possibly other undiscovered problems).
 
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Thaedolus said:
Man, as someone who's worked in quality over the years, that story was quite infuriating. If their QMS or the people running is letting shit like that through, it's time to clean house.
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From everything that I've heard, the rot seems to have infested executive management and the board won't care because the company keeps authorizing stock buybacks to improve share price. John Oliver did a piece on Boeing this week too and as usual there were tons of crazy stories.

-Staff openly joking about how they wouldn't ride a 737Max
-Tons of part subcontracting while inadequately (not at all?) auditing quality, resulting in product incongruities and late/overbudget completion
-FAA inspectors also being Boeing employees (such an insane conflict of interest I don't know how it's allowed)
-Boeing rushing the 737Max out the door to compete with AirBus's popular, new model commercial liner and advertising it as similar enough to the old 737 that pilots won't need any simulator time (and also leaving the MCAS system entirely out of the manual except a brief listing in the glossary)
-Promising a fix to the MCAS system flaws that they didn't deliver timely

The narrative in the story seemed to be that allot of Boeing's contemporary problems stem from the McDonnell Douglas merger in the late 90s. Boeing was led by engineers at the time and was known for quality products; McDonnell Douglas was led by finance bros and had had a plane grounded by the FAA before the merger.

We'll see how things shake out at Boeing. Their stock rose sharply in 2017-2018 and hasn't recovered from the covid slump but is still over its pre-2017 value. I don't know how big company culture shifts come about but I speculate poor performance might be a trigger.
 
Dj Khaled GIF by Music Choice
 
jufonuk said:

amp.cnn.com

LATAM Airlines passenger says pilot told him he lost control of Boeing plane after instrument failure | CNN

The pilot of a terrifying flight from Australia to New Zealand told those on board he temporarily lost control of his Boeing 787 after one of its instruments failed, a passenger said Monday, as authorities investigate what caused a sudden drop that threw terrified travelers around the cabin...
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com
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That Latam one is freaky. Apparently everything just turned off for a second. Be interesting to see what data the flight recorders picked up unless they turned off too.
 
www.seattletimes.com

Dish soap and a hotel key card: Dozens of problems surface in examination of Spirit, Boeing

Boeing failed 33 out of 89 of the FAA's product audits. At Spirit AeroSystems, the air-safety agency observed a hotel key card being used to check a door seal.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com

LOL uh, failed 33 out of 89 product audits......

Yeah I ain't gonna ride no fucking 737 MAX planes until every single one in service is torn down and rebuilt properly. No one knows what else is defective on those things and I don't plan on being the one who finds out
 
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Unknown Soldier said:
www.seattletimes.com

Dish soap and a hotel key card: Dozens of problems surface in examination of Spirit, Boeing

Boeing failed 33 out of 89 of the FAA's product audits. At Spirit AeroSystems, the air-safety agency observed a hotel key card being used to check a door seal.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com

LOL uh, failed 33 out of 89 product audits......

Yeah I ain't gonna ride no fucking 737 MAX planes until every single one in service is torn down and rebuilt properly. No one knows what else is defective on those things and I don't plan on being the one who finds out
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Im flying Boeing next week, with Ryanair
 
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You might get a Max - Ryanair have more than 500 737's (130+ MAX) its positioning and what is scheduled for that day.
 
you guys should stop with the fear mongering. There are tens of thousands of flights in the air at any given time so if flying is really unsafe, there would be numerous incidents daily.

Boeing definitely deserves all the flack for their poor QA but a lot of the recent incidents has more to do with poor maintenance by the airlines (looking at you, United) than the design of the plane.
 
newtypepilot said:
you guys should stop with the fear mongering. There are tens of thousands of flights in the air at any given time so if flying is really unsafe, there would be numerous incidents daily.
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Still easily the safest form of travel, by a hilariously large margin.
 
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newtypepilot said:
Boeing definitely deserves all the flack for their poor QA but a lot of the recent incidents has more to do with poor maintenance by the airlines (looking at you, United) than the design of the plane.
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Depends on the incident. The plug blow out wasn't a design flaw, it was poor quality control. There's no reason to think that would've happened had the plug been fitted to spec.

The MCAS disasters were absolutely design flaws, and Boeing should take it in the ass for decades for letting that through.
 
Makes me wonder if this is some coordinated campaign to erode brand reputation as one issue seems to happen after the next, snowballing. I've done this a few times. This is some next-next level state actor shit if this really is coordinated.

On the other hand, Murphy's law.
 
Boeing Whistleblower John Barnett Found Dead Amid Depositions Against Plane Company

John Barnett was supposed to answer questions on Saturday as part of a deposition he'd been giving earlier last week related to a legal dispute with his former employer Boeing—which has been dogged by safety concerns, some of which he had raised. But he didn't show up.

When his legal team called him repeatedly to no avail, they eventually asked the hotel he was staying at to check in on him. That's when Barnett was found dead in his truck in the parking lot.

The Charleston County Coroner's Office told TIME that Barnett died from "what appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound," and that the Charleston Police Department is continuing to investigate the death.
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I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I'd put 'self-inflicted' in bunny-ears. I've heard he had repeatedly told his family that he's not suicidal in case something happens to him.

At this point I'm staying well clear of any Boeing flights.
 
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Ownage said:
Makes me wonder if this is some coordinated campaign to erode brand reputation as one issue seems to happen after the next, snowballing. I've done this a few times. This is some next-next level state actor shit if this really is coordinated.

On the other hand, Murphy's law.
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Starting to think the same. Too many things so suddenly happening in quick succession. Something stinks here.
 
I flew to the coast last year with an airline, which I won't name, and it was pure shit. You could see rusted metal everywhere. And the passangers were packed in there like pickles.

It was so scary. I will never fly on the cheap again. It's not worth it.
 
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I have a feeling this will get way worse before it gets better. Truly a case against DEI. By time you factor in poorly made planes and the awful companies that fly them, I am surprised these incidents are not far worse. Statistics be damned, I am not a fan of flying, where my life is directly in the hands of other people. And now more than ever, those people's qualifications come into question.
 
JayK47 said:
I have a feeling this will get way worse before it gets better. Truly a case against DEI. By time you factor in poorly made planes and the awful companies that fly them, I am surprised these incidents are not far worse. Statistics be damned, I am not a fan of flying, where my life is directly in the hands of other people. And now more than ever, those people's qualifications come into question.
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How in the world does the change in company culture here leading to ignoring quality concerns have anything to do with DEI? By all the information available to us, there's systemic rot in Boeing's quality system rooted in pushing shit out before it's fully baked. And the FAA is failing in its duties to regulate. It goes so far beyond anything a "diversity hire" could ever do to a company.

It's greed, plain and simple. I know something about pushing back against management when they're wanting to cut corners and bring in timelines for some quarterly goal, and also pushing back against regulators when they're overstepping, because I've been doing that for like 15 years now. Some of the things people are making hay about I think aren't legit- the concept of some self verification stuff isn't foreign or alarming to me in and of itself, but it does require people to act in good faith. And regulatory bodies need to be able to audit and enforce people acting in good faith. Do I like hosting audits? No it's a pain in the ass, but I accept why they're done and I stand by my work. Nobody will ever be able to tell me I didn't put patient safety first. The problem here is that isn't being drilled into the company culture the way it was drilled into me day one at the first job I had out of college. That has nothing to do with DEI, it has everything to do with greed misaligning priorities
 
There seems to be two factors. Line quality. Planes coming off the line in poor shape. Not doing thorough safety checks on the line. The other seems to be maintenance crews for airlines with planes in service. Insufficient checks and quality on in service aircraft.
 
AJUMP23 said:
There seems to be two factors. Line quality. Planes coming off the line in poor shape. Not doing thorough safety checks on the line. The other seems to be maintenance crews for airlines with planes in service. Insufficient checks and quality on in service aircraft.
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Agree, there have been design and QC failures. The door plug blowout is infuriating when there's documentation about the issues and somehow it still got through. The MCAS issue is infuriating because in any risk analysis I've ever seen, a design failure that ends in catastrophic injury or loss of life, you have multiple redundancies. That's why control surfaces have triple redundant hydraulics. Losing control of an airplane with hundreds of people is kinda a big deal- you put software on it that relies on one sensor and can point it into the ground…what the hell. I'm not a genius but I'd call that out in a heartbeat.
 
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