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[Goss Harag]

What do you mean 'No'? The Southport murders were committed on July 29th 2024 while this show was announced in March of 2024. They had literally started filming even before those murders.

This is a lie being passed around, the show was already in production when those events happened, it's has nothing to do with Southport other than it being a stabbing.

Only you two have mentioned Southport.

I don't know whether it's true or not but this is the story that apparently got Stephen Graham interested in writing the show; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg8ly1wr8ro


This is a completely different case where a non-white person stabbed someone to death.

 

[DragoonKain]

This show is becoming really popular, I'm glad it's getting the recognition it deserves.

 

[Markio128]

Fucking hell, some of you lot could find a hidden agenda in an empty room.

 

[DKehoe]

 

[lughnasadh123]

In for two epsiodes so far, really need to wrap it up sometime. Best thing I can say is the acting is very solid, especially from Stephen.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

It's very well produced and the acting is good.

But it is overtly trying to send a flawed message and has caused a moral panic in the UK. It is therefore not to be supported.

It completely ignores that the real issue is the teaching of respect and resilience, of which there has been ever less of in the UK. There are not masses on 'incels' in the UK.

Just finished and I agree with this.

Moral education on personal responsbility, developing thick skin, respecting community, family or on why building a trustworthy dilligent society is important is absent from the public conversation and in education.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Correct. The UK has been experiencing rising amounts of violent knife attacks, including among teens. This show attempts to scapegoat “incel culture” as the particular reason for the violence and ignores other very obvious factors that are inconvenient to the narrative it wants to present. It’s hard to read it as anything other than disguised propaganda.

That said, I found this to be boring. The one style is impressive but doesn’t do much to create a compelling story.

This.

 

[Lt Pidgeon]

This is a lie being passed around, the show was already in production when those events happened, it's has nothing to do with Southport other than it being a stabbing.

I've never seen it being related to Southport in any way? Wasn't it the case in London when the boy stabbed the girl after an argument on a bus?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

The show actually highlights a lot of issues with the youth and growing up in the UK and probably Europe with some accuracy which it then proceeds to gloss over with by saying misogyny is the fundamental driving force.

Including things like:

• The disobedience and lack of respect in British classrooms demonstrated by children not following simple orders, using phones in school, speaking back to the teacher, complete lack of attention spans etc..
• Kids after school not having anything meaningful to do and just loitering or living on the Internet
• Parents either being too busy or not really raising their kids as closely as they could be
• The freedom the main boy was allowed to go out by himself at night at such a young age
• Social media becoming the norm for kids and teens
• Anti-social behaviour shown by teens who spray painted the car, lack of respect for adults

I have a friend who's worked in Secondary education here his entire life (aka middle school + high school) and he says how awful it all is. The kids can't sit still, many struggle to follow basic orders, they talk back, they bring their phones in, some get involved in drugs and crime.

I have a Canadian friend who's a teacher who said she'd never teach in the UK because she's spoken to so many former teachers here who talked about the kids being assholes.

I taught in Japan for several years in both Elementary and Middle school and witnessed moral and cultural education being at heart of the entire system. The kids were very respectful, well mannered, polite and were easy to teach. They were made of stronger stuff and understood the importance of following rules both in school and within society.

Many of them would also spend their time after school being engaged in further study or school clubs, so people weren't concerned about hoards of teens and what they're up to.

Anyway my point is the moral panic and push to bring this show into mainstream conversation thinking it's going to fix the problems we have is quite funny. It simply won't. It will require a huge upheavel in how the youth are raised by society (schools, parents, society) if you want more of them to become decent people in society and to seriously drive down youth criminality.

 

[DragoonKain]

I don't agree with the show painting misogyny as the driving force. Maybe the creators intended for that to be the message, but if they did I think they failed by making a great nuanced show ironically.

But just based on what the show presents to us on-screen, I think misogyny had very little to do with the homicide in the show. Episode 3 gives us the best insight into this.

What I thought made the show great was it left the main motivation for the murder ambiguous. It left it up to the audience to decide. It didn't try to preach to us that he committed it for one reason or another. And it gave us a ton to chew on. At the end of the day I think he was a really troubled kid, that had a laundry list of psychological issues.

Likely had some inherent sociopathic tendencies.
Likely had deep insecurity issues and an incessant desire to be accepted.
May have been born and inherited some of his dad's temper and possibly a more extreme version of it.
Bullying may have been a factor exacerbating some of these.
Possibly was emotionally underdeveloped.

Among other things. And what I loved about the show is they didn't force feed us a motive and even in episode 4 the parents are trying to figure out why and if their parenting was a factor. Which may or may not have been, I think if so, a very small one because Jamie's sister turned out just fine and they seemed like good parents, albeit imperfect.

But the idea that the show is preaching to us that Jamie is a misogynist and that's why he killed Katie as far as I'm concerned is just patently untrue. It's far more nuanced than that and Jamie was a deeply troubled kid and the show did a tremendous job showing us that.

 

[Tams]

I don't agree with the show painting misogyny as the driving force. Maybe the creators intended for that to be the message, but if they did I think they failed by making a great nuanced show ironically.

But just based on what the show presents to us on-screen, I think misogyny had very little to do with the homicide in the show. Episode 3 gives us the best insight into this.

What I thought made the show great was it left the main motivation for the murder ambiguous. It left it up to the audience to decide. It didn't try to preach to us that he committed it for one reason or another. And it gave us a ton to chew on. At the end of the day I think he was a really troubled kid, that had a laundry list of psychological issues.

Likely had some inherent sociopathic tendencies.
Likely had deep insecurity issues and an incessant desire to be accepted.
May have been born and inherited some of his dad's temper and possibly a more extreme version of it.
Bullying may have been a factor exacerbating some of these.
Possibly was emotionally underdeveloped.

Among other things. And what I loved about the show is they didn't force feed us a motive and even in episode 4 the parents are trying to figure out why and if their parenting was a factor. Which may or may not have been, I think if so, a very small one because Jamie's sister turned out just fine and they seemed like good parents, albeit imperfect.

But the idea that the show is preaching to us that Jamie is a misogynist and that's why he killed Katie as far as I'm concerned is just patently untrue. It's far more nuanced than that and Jamie was a deeply troubled kid and the show did a tremendous job showing us that.

The idea that it is preaching to us comes from all the interviews the creators have done, and commentary around, jncluding by the Prime Minister.

Just today, he got Netflix to agree to offer it free to all schools. Considering the lack of teaching of critical thinking in British schools (for decades), this can only really mean it is to preach.

The press releases (including X) about it are all incredibly vague. He's said it's about having conversations, but surely we all know that often ends of being lectured to.

 

[DragoonKain]

The idea that it is preaching to us comes from all the interviews the creators have done, and commentary around, jncluding by the Prime Minister.

Just today, he got Netflix to agree to offer it free to all schools. Considering the lack of teaching of critical thinking in British schools (for decades), this can only really mean it is to preach.

The press releases (including X) about it are all incredibly vague. He's said it's about having conversations, but surely we all know that often ends of being lectured to.

They're wrong about their own show. Again, as I noted in my post, that may have been the intention of the creators, but if it was, they did a bad job of relaying that message because what we saw on-screen did not show a murder taking place because of misogyny at all. Or maybe the creators are doing a bad job relaying their own message and it's more "We created a show, hoping it will spark a conversation about an issue we are concerned about" even if the show itself is not necessarily about said issue.

 

[Tams]

They're wrong about their own show. Again, as I noted in my post, that may have been the intention of the creators, but if it was, they did a bad job of relaying that message because what we saw on-screen did not show a murder taking place because of misogyny at all. Or maybe the creators are doing a bad job relaying their own message and it's more "We created a show, hoping it will spark a conversation about an issue we are concerned about" even if the show itself is not necessarily about said issue.

They are fulling backing and egging on Starmer on this, so they clearly created it with misogyny and 'toxic masculinity' in mind.

It boggles my mind that they don't understand their own fucking creation.

 

[Lambogenie]

First episode was boring. Sounds like the rest are similar format. Not for me then.

 

[JackHanma]

The show actually highlights a lot of issues with the youth and growing up in the UK and probably Europe with some accuracy which it then proceeds to gloss over with by saying misogyny is the fundamental driving force.

Including things like:

• The disobedience and lack of respect in British classrooms demonstrated by children not following simple orders, using phones in school, speaking back to the teacher, complete lack of attention spans etc..
• Kids after school not having anything meaningful to do and just loitering or living on the Internet
• Parents either being too busy or not really raising their kids as closely as they could be
• The freedom the main boy was allowed to go out by himself at night at such a young age
• Social media becoming the norm for kids and teens
• Anti-social behaviour shown by teens who spray painted the car, lack of respect for adults

I have a friend who's worked in Secondary education here his entire life (aka middle school + high school) and he says how awful it all is. The kids can't sit still, many struggle to follow basic orders, they talk back, they bring their phones in, some get involved in drugs and crime.

I have a Canadian friend who's a teacher who said she'd never teach in the UK because she's spoken to so many former teachers here who talked about the kids being assholes.

I taught in Japan for several years in both Elementary and Middle school and witnessed moral and cultural education being at heart of the entire system. The kids were very respectful, well mannered, polite and were easy to teach. They were made of stronger stuff and understood the importance of following rules both in school and within society.

Many of them would also spend their time after school being engaged in further study or school clubs, so people weren't concerned about hoards of teens and what they're up to.

Anyway my point is the moral panic and push to bring this show into mainstream conversation thinking it's going to fix the problems we have is quite funny. It simply won't. It will require a huge upheavel in how the youth are raised by society (schools, parents, society) if you want more of them to become decent people in society and to seriously drive down youth criminality.

Kids are assholes that crave structure and discipline... News at 11.

 

[Fake]

I watched and find embarrassing boring. Worst even, some of the GAFFERs here really acting like stroturfing. Very very sad.

I saw nothing about 'political agenda' before watching UNTIL channel news like CNN, NYT and others make an article about 'how this series tackle misonogy and incel', so lets be honest, who is here are the one that find political in everything?

I find the show terrible bad to be honest. Maybe actors raising the voice was like the 'shocking moment'? IDK in fuck why people like this stuff.


edit: My parents watch the first episode and find offensive the cops enter inside a house with a kid sleepying. Talking about shock moments...

 

[12Goblins]

I watched and find embarrassing boring. Worst even, some of the GAFFERs here really acting like stroturfing. Very very sad.

I saw nothing about 'political agenda' before watching UNTIL channel news like CNN, NYT and others make an article about 'how this series tackle misonogy and incel', so lets be honest, who is here are the one that find political in everything?

I find the show terrible bad to be honest. Maybe actors raising the voice was like the 'shocking moment'? IDK in fuck why people like this stuff.


edit: My parents watch the first episode and find offensive the cops enter inside a house with a kid sleepying. Talking about shock moments...

Can you tell me what you're watching that is better than this?

 

[Fake]

Can you tell me what you're watching that is better than this?

The Boys, Joker movie, Oppenheimer... IDK what stupid question is that.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

I watched and find embarrassing boring. Worst even, some of the GAFFERs here really acting like stroturfing. Very very sad.

I saw nothing about 'political agenda' before watching UNTIL channel news like CNN, NYT and others make an article about 'how this series tackle misonogy and incel', so lets be honest, who is here are the one that find political in everything?

I find the show terrible bad to be honest. Maybe actors raising the voice was like the 'shocking moment'? IDK in fuck why people like this stuff.


edit: My parents watch the first episode and find offensive the cops enter inside a house with a kid sleepying. Talking about shock moments...

 

[Lt Pidgeon]

I don't agree with the show painting misogyny as the driving force. Maybe the creators intended for that to be the message, but if they did I think they failed by making a great nuanced show ironically.

But just based on what the show presents to us on-screen, I think misogyny had very little to do with the homicide in the show. Episode 3 gives us the best insight into this.

What I thought made the show great was it left the main motivation for the murder ambiguous. It left it up to the audience to decide. It didn't try to preach to us that he committed it for one reason or another. And it gave us a ton to chew on. At the end of the day I think he was a really troubled kid, that had a laundry list of psychological issues.

Likely had some inherent sociopathic tendencies.
Likely had deep insecurity issues and an incessant desire to be accepted.
May have been born and inherited some of his dad's temper and possibly a more extreme version of it.
Bullying may have been a factor exacerbating some of these.
Possibly was emotionally underdeveloped.

Among other things. And what I loved about the show is they didn't force feed us a motive and even in episode 4 the parents are trying to figure out why and if their parenting was a factor. Which may or may not have been, I think if so, a very small one because Jamie's sister turned out just fine and they seemed like good parents, albeit imperfect.

But the idea that the show is preaching to us that Jamie is a misogynist and that's why he killed Katie as far as I'm concerned is just patently untrue. It's far more nuanced than that and Jamie was a deeply troubled kid and the show did a tremendous job showing us that.

Where does it show that Jamie was a "deeply troubled kid"? It looked to me that he lashed out at a bully. Why not show the back story of the girls who were doing the bullying?

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Where does it show that Jamie was a "deeply troubled kid"? It looked to me that he lashed out at a bully. Why not show the back story of the girls who were doing the bullying?

I can personally attest to all this. My son had a hell of a time being bullied in his previous school, from girls. It was utterly vile what was happening. Every single time it was him getting reprimanded for it.

The school in question had a very gynocentric slant on everything they did. The school had a, how to put it.. very progressive female head teacher.
We had weeks, months and years of vile comments and bullying from various students, my son was in no way shape or form deserving of any of it.

It all came to a head one day when my son was being accused of being a transphobe, he was 13. A few girls was making up lies that he was saying certain things he never did. The school excluded him one afternoon and rang me that same afternoon complaining and telling me of all the wrong he was supposed to have done..

But get this..

A week prior three lads had physically got him up against the wall in PE and was bullying him. The school never rung to tell me of this instance, my son wasn't forthcoming and it took a bit to come out

Once I found out, and after the trans debacle, I went up there and had it out with the head and his head of year. I recorded it, it was utterly ridiculous the school felt it necessary to ring and exclude him for made up lies, yet do absolutely nothing in regards to actual physical violence..

Thankfully, we managed to get him out of that school and he's now in an all boys school and doing excellent.

There is a feminization in a lot of schools in the UK, it was the same in one of his primary schools he was attending, and it is an absolute rot on a lot of young boys.

I've seen it first hand.

When I went in to confront the school for that incident you would not believe how quickly then turned into an embarrassing stuttering mess once confronted with their own ridiculous policies. It's a crying shame what these so called 'institutions' are actually allowed to get away with on young children and what they're actually allowing to go on unimpeded.

On one of the 'Anti boy' days (As I like to call it), the students were separated, girls went into one room, boys in another. My son and other the boys were basically told to be the best thing ever to girls and basically don't rape or kill girls. The girls? Well they were told to watch out for rapey killer boys

I'm not even joking..

Shows like Adolescence are, like Karl alludes to in the video, a totally disingenuous way of solving a problem, no one wants to tackle.

Infact, I feel quite a few don't even know what the problem is and the show is a thinly veiled prop piece that makes them feel what the issue is, but being far from the mark..

They can then go on feeling all Pompously and nice, but the problems still there.

What a ramble eh?

All I'll say following this old farts ramble is that if you're in the UK, have a young boy in school and are of sound mind, just keep an eye and ear out for what he's actually going through

It's not easy.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

I can personally attest to all this. My son had a hell of a time being bullied in his previous school, from girls. It was utterly vile what was happening. Every single time it was him getting reprimanded for it.

The school in question had a very gynocentric slant on everything they did. The school had a, how to put it.. very progressive female head teacher.
We had weeks, months and years of vile comments and bullying from various students, my son was in no way shape or form deserving of any of it.

It all came to a head one day when my son was being accused of being a transphobe, he was 13. A few girls was making up lies that he was saying certain things he never did. The school excluded him one afternoon and rang me that same afternoon complaining and telling me of all the wrong he was supposed to have done..

But get this..

A week prior three lads had physically got him up against the wall in PE and was bullying him. The school never rung to tell me of this instance, my son wasn't forthcoming and it took a bit to come out

Once I found out, and after the trans debacle, I went up there and had it out with the head and his head of year. I recorded it, it was utterly ridiculous the school felt it necessary to ring and exclude him for made up lies, yet do absolutely nothing in regards to actual physical violence..

Thankfully, we managed to get him out of that school and he's now in an all boys school and doing excellent.

There is a feminization in a lot of schools in the UK, it was the same in one of his primary schools he was attending, and it is an absolute rot on a lot of young boys.

I've seen it first hand.

When I went in to confront the school for that incident you would not believe how quickly then turned into an embarrassing stuttering mess once confronted with their own ridiculous policies. It's a crying shame what these so called 'institutions' are actually allowed to get away with on young children and what they're actually allowing to go on unimpeded.

On one of the 'Anti boy' days (As I like to call it), the students were separated, girls went into one room, boys in another. My son and other the boys were basically told to be the best thing ever to girls and basically don't rape or kill girls. The girls? Well they were told to watch out for rapey killer boys

I'm not even joking..

Shows like Adolescence are, like Karl alludes to in the video, a totally disingenuous way of solving a problem, no one wants to tackle.

Infact, I feel quite a few don't even know what the problem is and the show is a thinly veiled prop piece that makes them feel what the issue is, but being far from the mark..

They can then go on feeling all Pompously and nice, but the problems still there.

What a ramble eh?

All I'll say following this old farts ramble is that if you're in the UK, have a young boy in school and are of sound mind, just keep an eye and ear out for what he's actually going through

It's not easy.

Just to add as it was a long arse ramble

What I mean is, who's to say that if we as parents wasn't on the ball as to what was going on in my sons school, and how the school had more than once stuck up for the female students and made my son to feel like he was in the wrong for absolutely no reason..

It could have been my son sticking a knife into some girl then ended up being vilified as an 'Andrew tate' fan.. all because the real bully arseholes were always being covered for, time and time again

It's just horrible all round.

Thank christ he got out.

 

[Lt Pidgeon]

Just to add as it was a long arse ramble

What I mean is, who's to say that if we as parents wasn't on the ball as to what was going on in my sons school, and how the school had more than once stuck up for the female students and made my son to feel like he was in the wrong for absolutely no reason..

It could have been my son sticking a knife into some girl then ended up being vilified as an 'Andrew tate' fan.. all because the real bully arseholes were always being covered for, time and time again

It's just horrible all round.

Thank christ he got out.

Sorry to hear that your son had to go through all that.

The education system these days is fucked.

 

[Hookshot]

Schools here have favored girls ever since the mid 90's when Tony Blair's Labour came to power. They gutted the existing system of exams that at the time that boys did better in and changed it to a constant amount of coursework and feedback which the girls were given more time and help with leading up to exams that were now less of the overall grade. They shunted boys to the back of the class and neglected the white ones ever more. White boys now do the worst in the country.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Sorry to hear that your son had to go through all that.

The education system these days is fucked.

Cheers bud, it's all a learning curve. My lad would have never actually got to that point thankfully, it isn't in his nature (Partly the reason he got bullied in the first place..)

Growing up in the 80's/90's I had a general grasp of what being a parent would entail, these days it's a wild west of utter nonsense..

 

[Bert Big Balls]

I highly recommend Skins (UK version) if you haven’t seen it before OP.

Lots of the kids in that show got their big breaks from it because of their incredible acting.

Absolutely loved this show when it aired. Watched it all again a couple years ago and it's still good. Captured a moment in time so well and the characters were great.

 

[p_xavier]

I do Airsoft with late teenagers/early adults and they have no future and are radicalised to no ends. It's scary.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Can you tell me what you're watching that is better than this?

Emmerdale farm

 

[DragoonKain]

Where does it show that Jamie was a "deeply troubled kid"? It looked to me that he lashed out at a bully. Why not show the back story of the girls who were doing the bullying?

Episode 3 in abundance. Shows strong sociopathic traits in this episode as well is really deep anger issues and emotional instability.

 

[Lt Pidgeon]

Episode 3 in abundance. Shows strong sociopathic traits in this episode as well is really deep anger issues and emotional instability.

Sustained bullying might have that effect on a young boy? Some of the episode three stuff I thought was just bad acting as it didn't fit with his behaviour swings. Along with the bad acting of the psychologist.

 

[Aesius]

I do Airsoft with late teenagers/early adults and they have no future and are radicalised to no ends. It's scary.

It's wild that the stuff that radicalized Elliot Rodger, which used to be in fairly obscure corners of the web accessible only to the most terminally of online, is now fairly mainstream on TikTok and other social media apps. I remember when "mewing" was something that was relegated solely to certain message boards catering to people with body dysmorphic disorder. Now it's a widely known word among teens.

I just can't imagine growing up in a social media bubble, and said bubble actually worsening right before my eyes (while also not having the maturity, wisdom, or life experience to realize I'm being 100% gamed by an algorithm). Combine that with the "battle of the sexes" that's occurring, seeing some of your peers become rich overnight via social media (while your parents want you to toil in a low wage job), seeing the rise of AI and its implications on the work force, and the rising cost of houses and having any hope whatsoever for the future.

My kids are 4 and 2. My wife and I have nearly daily discussions on how to handle this part of their lives and really how to set them up for success in the future. It's scary and there are no good answers. I think the biggest thing for teens is building their self-esteem and self-confidence through competency in things that go beyond just schoolwork. I was the kid who just went to class and hung out with friends, and I know that had an effect on my self-image. Kids have gotta be involved in things outside of school beyond just doomscrolling.

 

[p_xavier]

My kids are 4 and 2. My wife and I have nearly daily discussions on how to handle this part of their lives and really how to set them up for success in the future. It's scary and there are no good answers. I think the biggest thing for teens is building their self-esteem and self-confidence through competency in things that go beyond just schoolwork. I was the kid who just went to class and hung out with friends, and I know that had an effect on my self-image. Kids have gotta be involved in things outside of school beyond just doomscrolling.

It's great you're doing that. I will probably never have kids (unfortunately) and try to moralise the youth the best way I can.

 

[DragoonKain]

Sustained bullying might have that effect on a young boy? Some of the episode three stuff I thought was just bad acting as it didn't fit with his behaviour swings. Along with the bad acting of the psychologist.

I don't think it was just the bullying I think it was a combination of a lot of things. Which is what made that episode and the series so good. Lots of things going on in that kid's head portrayed very well.

The kid also had strong signs of fear of abandonment and desire to be accepted/loved. Throughout episode 3 he acts like he doesn't want Briony there. Then at the end when she informs him it's their last session he loses his mind. It becomes apparent it was clearly a front. He just didn't like showing vulnerability, and he actually very much enjoyed his sessions with her because she took an interest in him. It's possible not many people in his life have paid that much attention to him, at least in quite a while. Also he got very angry whenever his dad was brought up. Could indicate that he somewhat blames his dad for his crime. Which shows lack of accountability--signs of a sociopath. And also in general the highs and lows and explosions of anger. Lots going on there in the kid's head.

I thought that episode was incredibly well acted, so disagree there.