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[jaysius]

Holy crap this thread blew up quickly. It's clear some here are way too emotionally attached to a device that draws pretty images on the screen.... I beg you..

Not only this thread, but it must be the unseasonably hot autumn making the crazy around here ratchet up to 11 on all threads.

We can’t have lucid discussions anymore because people resort to all out warring.

 

[Black_Stride]

So basically RDNA2 all over again.

Can't compete with nvidia's top, sits around x80 level, but is a gen behind with RT.

Price is only good because nvidia is asking way way to much. It's easily solvable by nvidia by just dropping a 4080ti.

The base 4080 is already 1200 dollars.
A 4080"20G is likely 1400 dollars.

From a price/performance perspective AMD has completely walked Nvidia with their 900 dollar near 4090 card.

Theyve purposely gimped the reference model at 375W
Imagine AIBs giving the card 400W.
It will absolutely murder the 4080'16G when it can hit 3000Mhz.

 

[Kenpachii]

Umm, not at the price of 5nm wafer nodes and their monolithic die size. There is just no way they can lower the price without taking a huge hit on profits. The current 4000 series is pegged around $200+ just for a wafer cuts. not to mention the added cost of wafer fail coverage and a multitude of other logistical factors beyond R&D costs.

Doubt these cards cost anywhere near 1k to make, and there profits yea it wil be cut obviously. still nvidia can do whatever they want

 

[John Wick]

You'll be disappointed.

How? The pricing for the XTX is fantastic. Competition is good for the consumer or so I have been told by gaf.

 

[Pagusas]

The base 4080 is already 1200 dollars.
A 4080"20G is likely 1400 dollars.

From a price/performance perspective AMD has completely walked Nvidia with their 900 dollar near 4090 card.

Theyve purposely gimped the reference model at 375W
Imagine AIBs giving the card 400W.
It will absolutely murder the 4080'16G when it can hit 3000Mhz.

While I'm disappointed with AMD on this so far (really wanted them to lean into RT and show some sort of care with it), imagine if EVGA jumped over to AMD. Would love to see them make a Kingpin XTX that can run at 600w.

 

[John Wick]

Eh the 4090 will still stomp it in RT. Should be closer in raster but it'll still pull ahead.

Wow a $1600 card will beat a $1000 card. I think I'll take the $600 saving and upgrade the rest of my PC.

 

[benno]

All you've done since the start of this thread is talk about how the 4090 is more powerful.

No, I haven't. I was first trying to work out the power of the 7900xtx by using the slides AMD has shown with FPS on youtube videos. AMD shows fps as 127 in Forza. I checked videos and they show the 4090 gets 165fps in Forza. Do facts which go against your bias upset you now?

Everyone knows this, it's just that people who are looking to get a 7900 over a 4090 don't care, they are in 2 different price categories.

cry harder. I want to know how powerful the 7900xtx actually is. I imagine others do too. We don't have all the information, so we make do with what we have. Do you want a cuddle in you hugbox to help you get over someone posting comparable FPS or something?

 

[John Wick]

7900XT seems pretty redundant, for just additional 100$ XTX offers significantly more

Exactly. If you can afford to buy an XT an extra 100 bucks won't hurt your wallet to buy an XTX. They need the XT about 150-200 less.

 

[Ywap]

I have a 3080 right now. If the 7900xtx is atleast 30% faster in heavy "ray traced" games at 1080p i'm very interested....

 

[Gaiff]

How? The pricing for the XTX is fantastic. Competition is good for the consumer or so I have been told by gaf.

Because you won't get those numbers. 1.7x is just like when NVIDIA claims 2-4x performance improvement. It doesn't reflect every day usage and based on other numbers provided by AMD, 1.7x will be an absolute base case scenario.

 

[GHG]

No, I haven't. I was first trying to work out the power of the 7900xtx by using the slides AMD has shown with FPS on youtube videos. AMD shows fps as 127 in Forza. I checked videos and they show the 4090 gets 165fps in Forza. Do facts which go against your bias upset you now?

You originally corrected someone who said the 4090 is only slightly faster by saying the 7900XT does 145-150 fps and now its suddenly 165 fps? And you want to talk about bias? My friend, this is what bias looks like:

oh well, still buying one. I need an upgrade to a 10900x for a DAW rig and there's no way in hell I'm going AMD so what's left?

That would be me. I've made a lot of bad PC decisions in the past and all of them involved AMD and their drivers. I will never buy another AMD PC product.

I do want them to exist for competition reasons though and hope they do with their GPU's what they did with their CPUs. I'm doubtful though.

----

cry harder. I want to know how powerful the 7900xtx actually is. I imagine others do too. We don't have all the information, so we make do with what we have. Do you want a cuddle in you hugbox to help you get over someone posting comparable FPS or something?

I've posted FPS comparisons in this very thread so not sure what you're even talking about.

 

[Fess]

Is there really any point in buying a 4080 though when the 4090 is just a few hundred dollars more.

If you’re building a whole PC, personal opinion, no. For a complete new build there are so many less interesting ”a few hundred dollars” scenarios to use if you want to save some money. I saved a few hundred dollars just going from an ASUS AIO to an Arctic AIO.

 

[GHG]

If you’re building a whole PC, personal opinion, no. For a complete new build there are so many less interesting ”a few hundred dollars” scenarios to use if you want to save some money. I saved a few hundred dollars just going from an ASUS AIO to an Arctic AIO.

When doing a full build the only way "a few hundred dollars less" on a single thing makes sense is if you can put that money into parts elsewhere that will enable better performance. That's why I personally struggle to see the point in the premium motherboards unless there's something specific you need for work. However if you're just going to spend the saved "few hundred" on RGB fans or some shit then just spend the money and get the better GPU.

 

[benno]

You originally corrected someone who said the 4090 is only slightly faster by saying the 7900XT does 145-150 fps and now its suddenly 165 fps?

Yes. those are the figures that the videos show. Should I make figures up which the video doesn't show to appease you and stop your hurty fee-fees?

And you want to talk about bias? My friend, this is what bias looks like:

Yes. An AMD CPU literally burnt with sparks flying inside the PC case in a music production PC I'd just had built. Something burnt out either the CPU or close to the CPU on the mobo and it took out near everything. The PC cost me just over 2k and lasted about 10 days.
So yes. I have reasons for not wanting another AMD CPU. Does this mean I'm not allowed to have an interest or opinion on a new GPU because of it? Am I posting things which aren't factual? Did AMD not have 127fps on the Forza slide?

I've posted FPS comparisons in this very thread so not sure what you're even talking about.

You said all I've done is post that the 4090 is more powerful. All I've done is argue with you about stupid shit and post 2 videos showing FPS.
You say I have a bias yet I'm just posting from what AMD are posting. You're out to nit-pick at everything and are that pathetic you even went trudging through my post history to use against me like it's some big "gotcha" moment.

It's just a GPU. You don't even own the GPU yet you're here defending it. Do you get this defensive when someone says anything about your SSD drive or whatever too?

 

[Fess]

When doing a full build the only way "a few hundred dollars less" on a single thing makes sense is if you can put that money into parts elsewhere that will enable better performance. That's why I personally struggle to see the point in the premium motherboards unless there's something specific you need for work. However if you're just going to spend the saved "few hundred" on RGB fans or some shit then just spend the money and get the better GPU.

Yup, agreed.
But I would probably think differently if I only upgraded the graphics card, then I would look at the percentage of increased cost versus increased performance and wonder if it’s worth it. But for the whole PC the extra money to go from 4080 to 4090 is like 10% of the totals. Meh

 

[Sophist]

AMD cards are trash both hardware and software wise, don't buy that.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

7700xt for the Pro consoles...

 

[iQuasarLV]

Doubt these cards cost anywhere near 1k to make, and there profits yea it wil be cut obviously. still nvidia can do whatever they want

Not that I disagree because I am a frugal bitch. I am just playing the Mr. Jenson devil's advocate.

this is my point of view when it comes to generational advancements.

 

[GHG]

Yes. those are the figures that the videos show. Should I make figures up which the video doesn't show to appease you and stop your hurty fee-fees?


Yes. An AMD CPU literally burnt with sparks flying inside the PC case in a music production PC I'd just had built. Something burnt out either the CPU or close to the CPU on the mobo and it took out near everything. The PC cost me just over 2k and lasted about 10 days.
So yes. I have reasons for not wanting another AMD CPU. Does this mean I'm not allowed to have an interest or opinion on a new GPU because of it? Am I posting things which aren't factual? Did AMD not have 127fps on the Forza slide?

You said all I've done is post that the 4090 is more powerful. All I've done is argue with you about stupid shit and post 2 videos showing FPS.
You say I have a bias yet I'm just posting from what AMD are posting. You're out to nit-pick at everything and are that pathetic you even went trudging through my post history to use against me like it's some big "gotcha" moment.

It's just a GPU. You don't even own the GPU yet you're here defending it. Do you get this defensive when someone says anything about your SSD drive or whatever too?

You want to call other people biased when in recent history you've been all-in on defending Nvida's poor practices, burning connectors, shitting on AMD and then deleting said posts (I saw it before you edited it in the burnt connector thread) and then when you're called out on it you want to throw a tantrum?

Your previous posts have been both against their GPU's and CPU's. If you don't like AMD products that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else is but don't come in here with false statements.

I'm done with this back and forth, good luck whatever you decide to do. I just hope you don't end up with an exploding PC should you decide to get a 7900XTX.

 

[benno]

but don't come in here

fucking lol. who the fuck do you think you are?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

The people buying the flagship cards probably do care about RT- the whole point of the high end is switching on bells and whistles.

 

[Zathalus]

Yes. An AMD CPU literally burnt with sparks flying inside the PC case in a music production PC I'd just had built. Something burnt out either the CPU or close to the CPU on the mobo and it took out near everything. The PC cost me just over 2k and lasted about 10 days.
So yes. I have reasons for not wanting another AMD CPU. Does this mean I'm not allowed to have an interest or opinion on a new GPU because of it? Am I posting things which aren't factual? Did AMD not have 127fps on the Forza slide?

So the PC you had just built had zero warranty on everything? Also if I decided to never buy a product from a manufacturer again based on a single failure I would never be able to buy anything ever again, as I have had Intel, AMD and Nvidia products fail me. Especially Nvidia lol, my 2080ti lasted all of a week before it shit the bed.

 

[sendit]

Brushing off ray tracing performance in 2022 when more and more games are starting to utilize this. Machine learning up sampling. Interested to see real benchmark numbers.

 

[GreatnessRD]

I wish the Raytracing were a little stronger, but outside of that AMD hit a homerun in my opinion. I also wish the 7900 XT was maybe $800 instead of the $900. I honestly thing you'd be insane to buy that with the 7900XTX right there for an extra $100. At the same time I can't judge anyone's pocket, so it might be just the right price for some. Really love the look of the reference models. Hope AMD sells them throughout the year as they did with the 6000 series. Now MSI needs to make a Suprim card for AMD and I might think about an AIB model, lol.

 

[IllegalLemon]

Someone made some comparisons from AMD's numbers over on beyond3d and the 4090 was far from just 45% faster in RT. We are going to need proper reviews to have any idea how things pan out, its frustrating AMD were not more transparent so now have to wait another month to know exactly how these all really perform.

GPU Ray Tracing Performance Comparisons [2021-2022]

So with RTXDI, NVIDIA posted some interesting performance numbers for ray tracing vs raster in Unreal Engine 5. RTXDI enables hundreds of ray traced lights per scene, all shadow casting ray traced shadows, with area lights, point lights and emessive properties .. the shadow cast are ray traced...

forum.beyond3d.com

Some preliminary numbers comparing 4090 vs 7900XTX based on published AMD numbers.

Cyberpunk 2077, native 4K:
4090: 40fps
3090Ti: 23fps
6900XT LC: 11fps
7900XTX: 17fps (50% faster than 6900XT LC)
The 4090 is 2.3X faster than 7900XTX, the 3090Ti is 35% faster.

Metro Exodus EE, native 4K:
4090: 87fps
3090Ti: 48fps
6900XT LC: 25fps
7900XTX: 37.5fps (50% faster than 6900XT LC)
The 4090 is 2.3X faster than 7900XTX, the 3090Ti is 28% faster.

Dying Light 2 native 4K:
4090: 44fps
3090Ti: 24fps
6900XT LC: 11fps
7900XTX: 20fps (56% faster than 6900XT LC)
The 4090 is 2.2X faster than 7900XTX, the 3090Ti is 20% faster

Hitman 3 native 4K:
4090: 43fps
3090Ti: 23fps
6900XT LC: 16fps
7900XTX: 26fps (85% faster than 6900XT LC)
The 4090 is 65% faster than 7900XTX

Honestly ,it's difficult to be sure, but I'll let the reviews do the talking in December. Amd was a bit dishonest, but frankly, during their rdna2 presentation last year, they underpromised, but overdelivered in some aspects so I'm confident they might pull the same trick this gen. They compared the xtx against their prior enthusiast flagship, the 6950xt, not the 6900xt. So we'll need more data to extrapolate from and get a somewhat accurate estimate of where the performance sits.

 

[iQuasarLV]

Brushing off ray tracing performance in 2022 when more and more games are starting to utilize this. Machine learning up sampling. Interested to see real benchmark numbers.

I see your cypher and raise you

 

[benno]

So the PC you had just built had zero warranty on everything? Also if I decided to never buy a product from a manufacturer again based on a single failure I would never be able to buy anything ever again, as I have had Intel, AMD and Nvidia products fail me. Especially Nvidia lol, my 2080ti lasted all of a week before it shit the bed.

No. Store which sold CPU is blaming the mobo. The mobo store blames the PSU etc and around it goes. I can't prove either or. I needed a PC so I just bought another and wrote it off.

 

[Crayon]

Big question mark over how fast these things will clock. Supposedly, part of the reason aibs were having a bad time with Nvidia was that they didn't have much of anywhere to go to offer OC models.

I just tried overclocking my 6600xt and it went up to 2750 and undervolted. I was a little surprised.

7900 XTX is like 5 or 10% behind 4090 at 100 Watts less. People touting you can cut a hundred Watts off the 4090 and only lose 5 or 10%. Hmmm. The more I think about it, the more this is making the 4090 look kind of stupid. If not stupid, opulent.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Pixel and texture rates are raster graphics.

I know some publications have had better luck with silicone lottery but after running my own benchmark I can say that my overclocked Gaming OC 4090 does 93.9tflops.

Just to add some more context on performance on this thing. Wccftech managed to hit 100tf with their card.

 

[Forsete]

Probably a buy.

 

[KungFucius]

I think they will be pretty much on par with 4090 performance with 3-D V-cache RDNA 3 early next year. These 2 cards seem like appetizers, and you are waiting for the main course to come....

Why would they launch a supposed flagship card in December only to outclass it a few months later?

Nvidia and Intel use dedicated chips, such as the Tensor cores, to calculate Ray Tracing, last gen AMD cards used to brute force it with the raster power, you still got Ray Tracing, but it was taking a hit as it had to share with the raster power, these new cards have dedicated chiplets for things so it frees up the pure raster power and allows the RT to do it's own thing, as they said they've completely reworked their RT pipeline for these.

Their chiplets are for IO and cache not RT. They are ICs fabbed on the previous node. The quote below says they do RT/AI/Rendering on the same transistors. So nothing like NVidia.

• AMD RDNA 3 Architecture – Featuring an advanced chiplet design, new compute units and second-generation AMD Infinity Cache technology, AMD RDNA 3 architecture delivers up to 54% more performance per watt than the previous-generation AMD RDNA 2 architecture6. New compute units share resources between rendering, AI and raytracing to make the most effective use of each transistor for faster, more efficient performance than the previous generation.

I know but its like I've just spent £4 on two pot noodles when I could have had 2 Maggies for £2.

Sell one and get an RX7900XTX

 

[Crayon]

Seems more like amd just skipped the $1500+ tier whatever the fuck that is. In first grade we learn that 9=9 and then drop out. So I suppose 4090 commparisons are a natural result of poor socialization, possibly mixed with some unreported fetal alchohol syndrome.

 

[Soren01]

Any information about FSR 3.0 being compatible with RDNA 2?

 

[TrebleShot]

Anyone seen any info on the pre built PCs they mentioned?

 

[Buggy Loop]

Seems more like amd just skipped the $1500+ tier whatever the fuck that is. In first grade we learn that 9=9 and then drop out.

Have to wait for 7950XTXXTX version

 

[Crayon]

Have to wait for 7950XTXXTX version

I got a fevah.. and the only cure... is more X's.

 

[MacReady13]

Any of my fellow Aussie's in here know when or where we can pre order one of these cards? I'm looking but to no vail. Hopefully soon something becomes available...
Funnily enough. haven't been this excited for a PC GPU in a very long time. Competitive pricing with some serious power means I'm finally happy to get back into PC gaming.

 

[GHG]

Any information about FSR 3.0 being compatible with RDNA 2?

It is apparently.

 

[AncientOrigin]

I see lots of negative comments undeserved comments about AMDs new cards.The 7900xtx has die of 308 the 4090 has die of 608 if any card is looser card it’s the 4090.If the 4090 would be on 308 the card would be joke trash or other way around if the 7900xtx would be 608 without the cache the 4090 would be like cheap entry level card compared to the 7900.the 7900 same size as the 6900 so no one need to change case or psu.4090 is almost the size of a ps5 what a joke and only 5-10 faster than a 7900 xtx that runs with 2.3 GHz.The 7900 will pass the 4090 in raster when the third party 2.8-3 GHz cards show up.FSR 3 and Nvidias will be equal only left for 4090 is a bit better RT the 7900 is 2.1 you can play the not so much demanding games at 8k 120 framerate or 4K 300 framerate what the 4090 can’t do.The clear winner is the 7900 cards overall.And if we take the 4080 as opponent for the cheaper 7900xtx the 7900 will trash the 4080.entry and middle entry all the way to behind 4090 AmD cards will be king.

 

[Marlenus]

I hate using this stupid techpowerup chart because of the CPU bottlenecked 4090, funny how r/AMD is only using that site.. anyway, doesn’t matter, it’s for the 4080 estimates.

But you see, 4090 exceeded estimations from the Nvidia slides when it was benchmarked, nobody thought it was such a beast after the presentation. Who’s to say 4080 won’t benefit similarly? I’m calling it now, 4080 and 7900XTX will trade blows at rasterization. I think I don’t need to mention how it’ll go for RT..

Well you see the 3d centre launch analysis of the 4090 has the 3090Ti being around 64% of the 4090 on average across a range of reviews.

Source

That puts the 4090 56% ahead of the 3090Ti on average in 4k raster.

It also puts the 4090 as 75% ahead of the 6950XT.

Provided the 7900XTX is around 54% faster than the 6950XT it puts the 4090 about 14% ahead of the 7900XTX in 4K raster.

The slide below from the 4000 reveal shows the 4090 in the 3 raster games having an advantage of about 70% in RE:V, 50% in Assasins Creed Valhalla and about 65% in The Division 2 for an average of 62% ahead of the 3090Ti which is a touch more than the 3D center average.

By Eye and a ruler the 4080 16GB is about 20% ahead of the 3090Ti in those 3 games so using that 20% would mean the 4090 is about 30% faster than the 4080.

So if we normalise a stack to the 4080 we can get an estimate as follows

4090 130%
7900XTX 114%
4080 100%

If we adjust for the delta between the NV chart and the 3D centre average of averages then you get an 18% uplift vs the 3090Ti for the 4080 16GB which gives the below stack

4090 132%
7900XTX 116%
4080 100%

So I don't see the two trading blows. I see the 7900XTX being slap bang in the middle of the 4080 16GB and the 4090 in pure raster.

As for RT the 4080 will probably be about 20% faster give or take a bit but it also costs 20% more so perf/$ for RT is looking to be very similar between the two but you get the choice of spending more to get the RT perf or spending less, sacrificing RT perf but gaining in raster perf. What you prefer depends on your wants so that choice is entirely down to the customer.

 

[AncientOrigin]

And one important aspect people don’t mention when comparing the 7900 to the 4090.7900 is 600-700 dollars cheaper yes.But very important the buyer of a 4090 most change psu and case what is not needed for the 7900 so in reality the 7900 is 1000-1200 cheaper than the 4090.You can buy for what you need to pay for a 4090 with new case and psu you can buy 7900xtx 999 dollars and with the 1000 extra dollars from case psu and the 600 of the 4090 state of the art 2.1 monitor in January.So the 7900 is the way better card everything compared

 

[Kazekage1981]

And one important aspect people don’t mention when comparing the 7900 to the 4090.7900 is 600-700 dollars cheaper yes.But very important the buyer of a 4090 most change psu and case what is not needed for the 7900 so in reality the 7900 is $1000-$1200 cheaper than the 4090.You can buy for what you need to pay for a 4090 with new case and psu you can buy 7900xtx 999 dollars and with the 1000 extra dollars from case psu and the 600 of the 4090 state of the art 2.1 monitor in January.So the 7900 is the way better card everything compared

Sorry this had to be bolded, color coded and underlined. Mindblown.gif

 

[SolidQ]

Official answer
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-con...3-may-be-supported-by-pre-rdna3-architectures

 

[Buggy Loop]

Oh I even forgot this about the techpowerup charts for 4090 that’s been the circulating all the time since last night..

RTX 4090: 521.90

They didn’t even use the 522.25 improved performance drivers..

 

[thuGG_pl]

Oh I even forgot this about the techpowerup charts for 4090 that’s been the circulating all the time since last night..

RTX 4090: 521.90

They didn’t even use the 522.25 improved performance drivers..

Did anyone did? Those drivers went live after the 4090 release when all the reviewers put up their reviews.

Also, please drop your nV fanboy shitposting attitude...

 

[HoofHearted]

Oh I even forgot this about the techpowerup charts for 4090 that’s been the circulating all the time since last night..

RTX 4090: 521.90

They didn’t even use the 522.25 improved performance drivers..

Wow.. Are you really that concerned about the perception of the 4090 so much to nitpick over a single chart that’s going to be clearly updated when the benchmarks are properly done?

 

[.hacked]

if I can get one I'll take a 7900xtx if its faster than my 3080ti, upgrade cpu too and put the 3080ti in another pc.

Got a feeling that is a big if, at $1000 shit is going to be impossible to get.

 

[mitchman]

AMD cards are trash both hardware and software wise, don't buy that.

Did AMD kill your cat or something?

 

[Neo_game]

I see lots of negative comments undeserved comments about AMDs new cards.The 7900xtx has die of 308 the 4090 has die of 608 if any card is looser card it’s the 4090.If the 4090 would be on 308 the card would be joke trash or other way around if the 7900xtx would be 608 without the cache the 4090 would be like cheap entry level card compared to the 7900.the 7900 same size as the 6900 so no one need to change case or psu.4090 is almost the size of a ps5 what a joke and only 5-10 faster than a 7900 xtx that runs with 2.3 GHz.The 7900 will pass the 4090 in raster when the third party 2.8-3 GHz cards show up.FSR 3 and Nvidias will be equal only left for 4090 is a bit better RT the 7900 is 2.1 you can play the not so much demanding games at 8k 120 framerate or 4K 300 framerate what the 4090 can’t do.The clear winner is the 7900 cards overall.And if we take the 4080 as opponent for the cheaper 7900xtx the 7900 will trash the 4080.entry and middle entry all the way to behind 4090 AmD cards will be king.

lol I think most people are already celebrating AMD victory. Numbers are impressive but those PR slides does not mean much once the reviews are out.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Based on Redgamingtech's newest video posting, the way the RDNA 3 architecture is designed, it can hit close to 3 Ghz. AMD just chose not to do it with some inconsistencies in performance and yields. These cards will definitely be overclocked to see how far it can go.