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[Piggus]

I see people mention surplus guns and ammunition a lot, but I don't know that I've ever seen it. Where does one get surplus?

https://www.aimsurplus.com/

https://www.classicfirearms.com/

http://www.jgsales.com/

http://www.southernohiogun.com/ <--- I got my 92S from them and paid a little extra for them to hand-pick one in very good condition. The gun I received was probably never even issued and had very little signs of use.

And probably many others...

If you're looking to buy locally, some sporting goods stores should still carry surplus rifles. You'll probably only see surplus handguns in large gun stores though. The problem with ordering online is you don't have an opportunity to inspect the gun before you buy, so there's an element of luck involved. You have to accept that what you order isn't going to be in perfect cosmetic condition. You also generally have to coordinate with a local FFL and pay a transfer fee, since you can't have guns shipped directly to you unless you're buying a C&R (Curio & Relic gun) and have a C&R license. In general the process is pretty painless.

 

[Bandit1]

Hey guys,

So I just wanted to give some of my impressions on why I chose the XDM 9mm full size is my first handgun (primarily for home defense and range).

I was not sure which one to get, and I narrowed down to 2 options: XDM and glock17/19.

I held both, and shot both. I did my own research, talked to different people, watched videos on youtube, and decided to go with XDM.

Reasons why I chose XDM:
- It just felt better on my hand, I liked the grip better
- The gun feels more "premium" than glock. if you hold both guns, you think that the XDM is more "well built" than the glock
- It was a bit cheaper, and now Springfield has a killer sale going on: if you buy any Springfield handgun, you get 4 extra magazines, magazine pouch and a holster:

- XDM comes with metal sights and fiberoptic frontsight, glock comes with plastic sights
- XDM is easier to take down
- high capacity magazine 19 + 1
- magazine is stainless steel, as opposed to plastic that comes with the glock
- I liked the extra "safety" features of the XDM: grip safety, cocking indicator, chamber indicator (basically you can tell if you have a chambered bullet by just passing the finger over the slide, since once the bullet is chambered, it sticks out a bit, very helpful in the dark)

this video explains better the differences between XDM and glock


Both pistols are very reliable, and you can't go wrong with either one, but I chose XDM because of the extra features and the freebies I will get from Springfield, which you can't really ignore (4 extra magazines, magazine pouch and holster)


Here is the handgun.

Now I just need to practice more with dummy rounds, and go to range to practice with live rounds. once I get a better feel of the pistol, I will take a basic shooting course. planning to get my CCW down the road.

Thank you for all the advice guys.

Congrats on the purchase! Heck of a deal with all the extra mags and gear. I didn't know the mags were 19 rounders, that's pretty nice. I also like the cocking and chamber indicators. My PPS has those although the chamber indicator is just a viewport, but that's fine by me.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

quick question guys:

which 9mm round would you recommend for home defense? I know HP are the best for this purpose, but what grain? Also, is there any ammo that does not penetrate much so the risk of going through a human body and hitting somebody else is low?

thanks

 

[Chorazin]

quick question guys:

which 9mm round would you recommend for home defense? I know HP are the best for this purpose, but what grain? Also, is there any ammo that does not penetrate much so the risk of going through a human body and hitting somebody else is low?

thanks

Hollow Point, 135 grain. I carry Speer Gold Dot.

All HP bullets are frangable (aka they tear apart on impact) by design, so they have a harder time penetrating hard substances like walls.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

Hollow Point, 135 grain. I carry Speer Gold Dot.

All HP bullets are frangable (aka they tear apart on impact) by design, so they have a harder time penetrating hard substances like walls.

any specific brand or model?

why 135 grain? just curious

 

[Chorazin]

any specific brand or model?

why 135 grain? just curious

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/ Have fun! It's a few years old at this point but handgun ammo hasn't really changed since then.

And I apologize, I actually carry 124 grain, not sure why I had 135 in my head. I carry Speer Gold Dot 124 Hollow Points in my Glock 19 due to it's overall well tested performance. The recoil in higher grain loads isn't worth it vs time on target when you're penetrating within and beyond the FBI standards.

 

[LiamA]

Federal HSTs are great and you'll commonly find them packed in boxes of 50 for a good price. That's my favorite--great performance for the cost and allows you to practice with your SD load for less.

 

[Chorazin]

Federal HSTs are great and you'll commonly find them packed in boxes of 50 for a good price. That's my favorite--great performance for the cost and allows you to practice with your SD load for less.

The difference between a 115 grain range load and a 124 grain SD load is pretty much negligible. Don't throw your money away training on expensive rounds. :/

 

[hwalker84]

quick question guys:

which 9mm round would you recommend for home defense? I know HP are the best for this purpose, but what grain? Also, is there any ammo that does not penetrate much so the risk of going through a human body and hitting somebody else is low?

thanks

Speer Gold Dot
Federal HST
Hornady Critical Defense
Corbon DPX

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

Federal HSTs are great and you'll commonly find them packed in boxes of 50 for a good price. That's my favorite--great performance for the cost and allows you to practice with your SD load for less.

The difference between a 115 grain range load and a 124 grain SD load is pretty much negligible. Don't throw your money away training on expensive rounds. :/

Speer Gold Dot
Federal HST
Hornady Critical Defense
Corbon DPX

thanks!

 

[LiamA]

The difference between a 115 grain range load and a 124 grain SD load is pretty much negligible. Don't throw your money away training on expensive rounds. :/

You'll want to put a fair number of your desired SD round through your pistol to make sure it's 100% reliable as well. Picking hollowpoints and not making sure they are good to go is very unwise.

Besides, all the cool kids buy European 124 grain (like Geco) to practice with. B)

 

[blackflag]

Hey guys,

So I just wanted to give some of my impressions on why I chose the XDM 9mm full size is my first handgun (primarily for home defense and range).

I was not sure which one to get, and I narrowed down to 2 options: XDM and glock17/19.

I held both, and shot both. I did my own research, talked to different people, watched videos on youtube, and decided to go with XDM.

Reasons why I chose XDM:
- It just felt better on my hand, I liked the grip better
- The gun feels more "premium" than glock. if you hold both guns, you think that the XDM is more "well built" than the glock
- It was a bit cheaper, and now Springfield has a killer sale going on: if you buy any Springfield handgun, you get 4 extra magazines, magazine pouch and a holster:

- XDM comes with metal sights and fiberoptic frontsight, glock comes with plastic sights
- XDM is easier to take down
- high capacity magazine 19 + 1
- magazine is stainless steel, as opposed to plastic that comes with the glock
- I liked the extra "safety" features of the XDM: grip safety, cocking indicator, chamber indicator (basically you can tell if you have a chambered bullet by just passing the finger over the slide, since once the bullet is chambered, it sticks out a bit, very helpful in the dark)

this video explains better the differences between XDM and glock


Both pistols are very reliable, and you can't go wrong with either one, but I chose XDM because of the extra features and the freebies I will get from Springfield, which you can't really ignore (4 extra magazines, magazine pouch and holster)


Here is the handgun.

Now I just need to practice more with dummy rounds, and go to range to practice with live rounds. once I get a better feel of the pistol, I will take a basic shooting course. planning to get my CCW down the road.

Thank you for all the advice guys.

XDM was my first handgun as well. Great choice. I got the XDM OSP that has a premilled slide for all of the popular reflex sights. I have the Vortex Venom that it came with and it is so accurate.

Since then I got an XDS which I don't love because of the trigger. Might look at the XDE or move to an M&P shield or a small Glock. But for now it's my daily conceal carry gun.

Also got a Glock 10MM that is super fun to shoot.

Edit: What is that deal? I bought both my Springfields since February and didn't get anything. Is it a mail in rebate or something?

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

XDM was my first handgun as well. Great choice. I got the XDM OSP that has a premilled slide for all of the popular reflex sights. I have the Vortex Venom that it came with and it is so accurate.

Since then I got an XDS which I don't love because of the trigger. Might look at the XDE or move to an M&P shield or a small Glock.

Also got a Glock 10MM that is super fun to shoot.

Edit: What is that deal? I bought both my Springfields since February and didn't get anything. Is it a mail in rebate or something?

you need to go to their website, and click on the gear up promotion. you only need to fill out a form online on their website with the serial of the gun, your information ,and upload a receipt of the gun purchase. that is it!

https://www.springfieldpromo.com/

 

[blackflag]

you need to go to their website, and click on the gear up promotion. you only need to fill out a form online on their website with the serial of the gun, your information ,and upload a receipt of the gun purchase. that is it!

https://www.springfieldpromo.com/

Awesome. I already bought a bunch of extra magazines but you can never have too many. I won't have to unload self defense ammo from them when I go to the range so that'll be nice.

 

[Chorazin]

You'll want to put a fair number of your desired SD round through your pistol to make sure it's 100% reliable as well. Picking hollowpoints and not making sure they are good to go is very unwise.

Besides, all the cool kids buy European 124 grain (like Geco) to practice with. B)

Well of course. But spending 2x the money on a bunch of HP rounds to shoot at paper is a waste of money. Plus any bullet can fail or squib on you so that's why we practice malfunction drills.

 

[Goofalo]

AR build is back on again! Jeez what a headache.

 

[Goofalo]

Do any of the AR guys on here have a reason not to go with a Wylde barrel? I'm reading about them and they seem like the best of both worlds.

 

[QualityPixel]

Do any of the AR guys on here have a reason not to go with a Wylde barrel? I'm reading about them and they seem like the best of both worlds.

Its a good idea to get Wylde. But it doesn't make or break a rifle if you don't have it. It's probably a better idea to worry about barrel length and twist rate

Example:
1:7 for hunting deer/hog (70-77 grain bullets)
1:9 for plinking (55-65 grain bullets)
1:10 for target and varmints (40-55 grain bullets)

1:8 offers a good balance for the most common bullet weights, but don't expect it to handle 77 grain or 50 grain.

My 1:7 seems happy enough with 55-77 grain ammo, but definitely shot more accurately with the heavier-more expensive stuff.

 

[Bandit1]

Yooo, Walther just initiated a $100 rebate on the PPS M2 and PPQ, now through September 15. I'm thinking I'll go ahead and get either the Navy 4.6" or the 5" PPQ. Have to do a little saving first though.

Link to rebate info.

 

[despire]

Its a good idea to get Wylde. But it doesn't make or break a rifle if you don't have it. It's probably a better idea to worry about barrel length and twist rate

Example:
1:7 for hunting deer/hog (70-77 grain bullets)
1:9 for plinking (55-65 grain bullets)
1:10 for target and varmints (40-55 grain bullets)

1:8 offers a good balance for the most common bullet weights, but don't expect it to handle 77 grain or 50 grain.

My 1:7 seems happy enough with 55-77 grain ammo, but definitely shot more accurately with the heavier-more expensive stuff.

Do you think that a 16,75" 1:9 barrel would balance a 69gr bullet?

 

[Goofalo]

Its a good idea to get Wylde. But it doesn't make or break a rifle if you don't have it. It's probably a better idea to worry about barrel length and twist rate

Example:
1:7 for hunting deer/hog (70-77 grain bullets)
1:9 for plinking (55-65 grain bullets)
1:10 for target and varmints (40-55 grain bullets)

1:8 offers a good balance for the most common bullet weights, but don't expect it to handle 77 grain or 50 grain.

My 1:7 seems happy enough with 55-77 grain ammo, but definitely shot more accurately with the heavier-more expensive stuff.

I was going to go for 16" with a 1:8 twist, non chrome lined barrel. It'll have a Melonite coating. And even though I'm doing the build myself, I will hand it over to an armorer to make sure the headspace is correct.

I don't really see myself using anything lighter than 55 grain.

 

[hwalker84]

Yooo, Walther just initiated a $100 rebate on the PPS M2 and PPQ, now through September 15. I'm thinking I'll go ahead and get either the Navy 4.6" or the 5" PPQ. Have to do a little saving first though.

Link to rebate info.

Seriously guys Walthers are the shit!!! Buy one!

 

[QualityPixel]

Do you think that a 16,75" 1:9 barrel would balance a 69gr bullet?

It will probably be ok. What I posted was just what I have read and it reflects a bit on my own experience. If you're trying to put holes in holes at 300 meters you may find a 69gr wont have enough spin in a 1:9 barrel to be accurate.

This stag arms chart shows more forgiving numbers than I posted.
http://info.stagarms.com/blog/bid/371861/How-Barrel-Twist-Rate-Affects-Ammunition-Choice

I'm no twist rate scientist.

I was going to go for 16" with a 1:8 twist, non chrome lined barrel. It'll have a Melonite coating. And even though I'm doing the build myself, I will hand it over to an armorer to make sure the headspace is correct.

I don't really see myself using anything lighter than 55 grain.

Sounds awesome! Go for it

 

[Piggus]

I was going to go for 16" with a 1:8 twist, non chrome lined barrel. It'll have a Melonite coating. And even though I'm doing the build myself, I will hand it over to an armorer to make sure the headspace is correct.

I don't really see myself using anything lighter than 55 grain.

My AR has a 16" Wylde barrel with a 1:8 twist and I haven't had any issues with .223 55 gr, 5.56 mm 55 gr, or 5.56 mm 62 gr ammo, though I haven't tried anything other than that.

I would avoid green-tip ammo unless you have an actual use for it though. The armor-piercing cores can cause accuracy issues at longer distances and aren't worth the extra money.

 

[Goofalo]

My AR has a 16" Wylde barrel with a 1:8 twist and I haven't had any issues with .223 55 gr, 5.56 mm 55 gr, or 5.56 mm 62 gr ammo, though I haven't tried anything other than that.

I would avoid green-tip ammo unless you have an actual use for it though. The armor-piercing cores can cause accuracy issues at longer distances and aren't worth the extra money.

If I could defend sound progressive US environmental policy with green tip bullets I would. But yeah, I'm not seeing too much of a need to penetrators. Not even in my wildest weird home defense fantasies would I think that green tips would ever be needed. It's been a hurdle enough living where I live, even being able to build an AR.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

Quick question , I am shopping online for ammo and I found some that he case of steel instead of of brass, much cheaper (Tula ammo for example) . Is this ok for range shooting or should I spend a bit more and just get the brass ?

 

[Goofalo]

Quick question , I am shopping online for ammo and I found some that he case of steel instead of of brass, much cheaper (Tula ammo for example) . Is this ok for range shooting or should I spend a bit more and just get the brass ?

Most people will tell you to only shoot brass. Brass is a softer metal and is easier on the extractor. But, the steel of you internal parts is much harder than the steel casing of the bullet, so I don't think it should be a problem. Most modern striker fired service pistols handle steel just fine.

Now, an issue is what your range will let you shoot. Some places don't allow steel because they don't want to separate it out.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

Quick question , I am shopping online for ammo and I found some that he case of steel instead of of brass, much cheaper (Tula ammo for example) . Is this ok for range shooting or should I spend a bit more and just get the brass ?

No, always use brass.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

Most people will tell you to only shoot brass. Brass is a softer metal and is easier on the extractor. But, the steel of you internal parts is much harder than the steel casing of the bullet, so I don't think it should be a problem. Most modern striker fired service pistols handle steel just fine.

Now, an issue is what your range will let you shoot. Some places don't allow steel because they don't want to separate it out.

No, always use brass.

thanks guys

 

[Rest]

This guy does hardness tests on shell casings. He briefly explains the concept of annealing and goes over various casing materials. He finds steel casings to be about as soft or softer than brass, and if they have a plastic coating much much softer than brass.

 

[LiamA]

Also, nothing will get you banned from a range faster than the owners/range officers watching you put pockmarks in the steel backstop/targets with M855 ball. The stuff just isn't worth it.

 

[iddqd]

I got my license yesterday (I'm in Canada). Super stoked to start the deep dive into all of this.
Anyone here into hunting? That is the main purpose of why I'm interested so my current thinking is
- Get a versatile Shotgun for small game/ birds
- Then maybe a 22LR (Lever action for the fun of it)
- A Bolt Action (30/06 or 308??) for deer and moose. Or maybe that one as a lever action?

Is that a plan? Is that weird?

 

[QualityPixel]

I've never had any issues shooting steel or aluminum case ammo. Some firearms (typically of lesser quality) may have issues with steel.

I am a fan of good brass with possibly a nickel finish for self defense as steel/aluminum would likely be a little less reliable for semi-auto rifles/pistols.

My XD just gobbles this stuff up: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Herters-reg-Select-Grade-TNJ-Handgun-Ammunition/1261880.uts

I got my license yesterday (I'm in Canada). Super stoked to start the deep dive into all of this.
Anyone here into hunting? That is the main purpose of why I'm interested so my current thinking is
- Get a versatile Shotgun for small game/ birds
- Then maybe a 22LR (Lever action for the fun of it)
- A Bolt Action (30/06 or 308??) for deer and moose. Or maybe that one as a lever action?

Is that a plan? Is that weird?

Sounds like a good plan. I'm not an expert on lever actions but I do know that some don't allow for optics. My dad's old 30-30 can't have a scope, but I think most now do allow for it.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

I know that accuracy comes with a lot of training, but I don't know what else to do. went to range yesterday, and I was holding the gun properly, using the sights, aiming perfectly but was not able to group all shots together, it was scattered all over the target.

I am probably moving the gun to much, because I am aiming properly. any techniques on that?

thanks
ps: I shot XDM 9mm full size (4.5 inches barrel)

 

[Bandit1]

I know that accuracy comes with a lot of training, but I don't know what else to do. went to range yesterday, and I was holding the gun properly, using the sights, aiming perfectly but was not able to group all shots together, it was scattered all over the target.

I am probably moving the gun to much, because I am aiming properly. any techniques on that?

thanks
ps: I shot XDM 9mm full size (4.5 inches barrel)

Are you using a thumbs-forward grip?

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

Are you using a thumbs-forward grip?

Yes, thumb over thumb

 

[Bandit1]

Yes, thumb over thumb

Okay, figured you were since you said proper technique. It felt strange to me at first, but now any other way feels a lot worse. My own accuracy isn't anything to brag about, but usually one of the first things I do with a gun I'm getting to know is shoot it from a rest. I try to take myself out of the equation as much as possible so I can better see what the gun actually does. I take my time and try to have the point of aim be exactly the same for each shot, then I can see if the gun shoots high/low/left/right. Then I can compensate for that later on. I'm no expert, just telling you what worked for me.

 

[Goofalo]

I know that accuracy comes with a lot of training, but I don't know what else to do. went to range yesterday, and I was holding the gun properly, using the sights, aiming perfectly but was not able to group all shots together, it was scattered all over the target.

I am probably moving the gun to much, because I am aiming properly. any techniques on that?

thanks
ps: I shot XDM 9mm full size (4.5 inches barrel)

That can be anything from what part of your finger pad squeezes the trigger, the anticipating the noise, to even things like adjusting the angle of your support hand. Practicing more helps, it's not an over night thing.

I went through 200 rds before I figured that even though I am left handed, I might not be left eye dominant. And sure enough, I'm right eye dominant and had to learn shooting with my right hand.

Keep it up, you'll get better.

 

[Goofalo]

Also, nothing will get you banned from a range faster than the owners/range officers watching you put pockmarks in the steel backstop/targets with M855 ball. The stuff just isn't worth it.

What distance were you shooting at?

Ordered my lower parts kit, and am so excite. But now I have to eat ramen to get that upper, not excite.

 

[LiamA]

What distance were you shooting at?

Ordered my lower parts kit, and am so excite. But now I have to eat ramen to get that upper, not excite.

I don't shoot the stuff myself. But it will damage bullet traps and steel targets meant for rifles at all kinds of ranges. Green tips aren't AP rounds and won't do the same thing as AP rounds, but they still tear things up.

 

[Goofalo]

I don't shoot the stuff myself. But it will damage bullet traps and steel targets meant for rifles at all kinds of ranges. Green tips aren't AP rounds and won't do the same thing as AP rounds, but they still tear things up.

I ordered a whole bunch of Wolf Gold and PMC rounds. I figure that's fine for range shooting and I don't see myself trying to hit targets beyond 300 meters to be honest

 

[Realplumpbox85]

Quick question , I am shopping online for ammo and I found some that he case of steel instead of of brass, much cheaper (Tula ammo for example) . Is this ok for range shooting or should I spend a bit more and just get the brass ?

I use both. Steel is also dirtier. Also my father has been shooting very a very long time ad also usus both. Never any issues. The range may care but some do not.

 

[Rest]

I kind of want a shooter that has gun maintenance involved. I don't know if it would appeal to the part of the population that doesn't own weapons, but there's something satisfying about cleaning a gun that might make a game a bit more engrossing.
Too bad a TV can't duplicate the smell of gun oil.

 

[QualityPixel]

I kind of want a shooter that has gun maintenance involved. I don't know if it would appeal to the part of the population that doesn't own weapons, but there's something satisfying about cleaning a gun that might make a game a bit more engrossing.
Too bad a TV can't duplicate the smell of gun oil.

I got you fam

Spoiler

Smells not included.

 

[despire]

Firearms United taking the cat out of the bag:

carrynow.eu

 

[Goofalo]

Firearms United taking the cat out of the bag:

carrynow.eu

How exactly is this supposed to work? Like, are armed citizens supposed to gun down truck drivers? Or, suicide bombers? I don't know how they operate, but I'm guessing they aren't whipping off a trench coat with a dynamite vest and loudly going into an prayer before detonating themselves.

I'm not sure that mass attacks are the best platform to use as an example.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

anybody here has bought at freedom munition? I placed an order last week for 1000 rounds of 9mm and it is still pending. is this something normal for them?

 

[Rest]

anybody here has bought at freedom munition? I placed an order last week for 1000 rounds of 9mm and it is still pending. is this something normal for them?

hwalker84 gave them a plug on the last page for the sale, you could shoot him a PM if he doesn't respond in a little while.

I have no personal experience wit them at all, but it looks like they had an issue with squibs for a while a couple years ago.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

hwalker84 gave them a plug on the last page for the sale, you could shoot him a PM if he doesn't respond in a little while.

I have no personal experience wit them at all, but it looks like they had an issue with squibs for a while a couple years ago.

thanks, I just found a notice on their website that their orders are a bit behind due to demand, and they are having a 5-7 business delay on order shipment. thanks

 

[hwalker84]

anybody here has bought at freedom munition? I placed an order last week for 1000 rounds of 9mm and it is still pending. is this something normal for them?

They're my range ammo of choice. Now let me state. That is their NEW ammo not reloads. I'm not a fan of reloads in general but I had a few failures with their reloads. Just not worth it imo.

Yes depending on the sale you got on they could take forever to actually ship. Happens all the time.