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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga thread of TOTAL SPOILER PANDEMONIUM

duckroll

Member
In the "everybody's kinda shit" argument, can't quite see the reason for ghettodians being considered that. They, much like the survey corps, seem pretty close to blameless.

I was even entertaining the argument that erwin might've been a bit of a shitty person, but... he was depicted as being quite fucking honest with his soldiers wrt what they were going to do, and why.

The average person in the ghettos or living within the walls has no "blame" because they're just part of the setting and have no active role in it. The Survey Corps are most comparable to the Eldion rebels who were actively working to topple the order. Now, we can argue that they are doing it with good intentions and want to change a broken system, sure, but their actions aren't always the most informed and they act out of passion and instinct rather than informed knowledge.

Look at how Eren's father "translated" the ancient documents to justify the rebellion. He admitted to not knowing what it really knows but inferred the meaning he wanted out of blind faith that their ancestors were innocent and that the ruling party has simply taught them lies to suppress them.

In the same way the Survey Corps have launched a coup and totally upset the order of things within the Walls, but even know they realize that they never really knew the truth behind some of the things they were involved in. They were interested in overthrowing the royal family who they saw as bad, to put someone in power who they could trust, so they could push forward with what they felt the people needed. Noble intentions, but I would hardly say it is innocent or blameless when there is actual bloodshed involved.

Ultimately, it is true that the core team of the Survey Corps are the most heroic and likeable part of the cast, but as the protagonists in a huge mainstream shounen action manga, they kind of have to be lol.
 
Quite, and in both cases, the only reason why the rebcorps act in the way they do is because People In Positions Of Power actively continue to keep them in ignorance in order to preserve their own power, leaving them no choice. When one has such an active role, assigning blame to the faction kept in the dark... isn't the most solid of positions.

Strictly talking about the SC, they'd be even more blameless, since what they've done was a reaction to an attempt to make them go extinct, putting them firmly in self defence territory. On top of that, the overthrow only happened after the rulers inside the wall proved that, push comes to shove, fuckit, we saving our own asses and no one else's.

One could argue that Erwin was a bit of a shit for allowing that beardo guy to carry out his torture fantasies on the captured military officers, tho. Which is something that bothers the fuck outta me: just how often torture is depicted to work in this book.
 

LogicStep

Member
I'm going have to re read this chapter, it was a lot to take in and I don't think I understood it all. I'm going to have to re read the whole manga at some point.
 
Why would the Marleans convert Elodians into titans and put them outside the walls when they know well the king has the coordinate to control them? They are just adding to his numbers. They probably bet on the possible fact that he would never ever take any sort of action.

More interesting question: Every Fritz royal descendant ate the previous coordinate carrier and inherited their memories, which are the memories of the king that built the walls. What truths did they learn that stopped them from using the coordinate and taking any action whatsoever?
 

Kazuhira

Member
That was a lot to digest tbh,i need to read it again.
I read a comment saying that the titan that ate Eren's mom looks like Dina,mind blown if that’s true(highly unlikely but cool).
 

ElFly

Member
Why would the Marleans convert Elodians into titans and put them outside the walls when they know well the king has the coordinate to control them? They are just adding to his numbers. They probably bet on the possible fact that he would never ever take any sort of action.

More interesting question: Every Fritz royal descendant ate the previous coordinate carrier and inherited their memories, which are the memories of the king that built the walls. What truths did they learn that stopped them from using the coordinate and taking any action whatsoever?

I assume some are immune to the coordinate because reasons, given how Eren didn't just order Bert and Ernie to kill themselves when he discovered the use of the coordinate
 

Ekid

Member
Basement surpassed my expectation, nice job Isayama.

So if I got that right we still don't know how Grisha was able to obtain one of the nine "power" but I guess it was one of the seven in possession of the Marley.
Current possessors are Eren (from Grisha), Armin (from Bertolt), Zeke, Reiner, Annie and Ymir (from Marcel), which mean we are missing one from Marley and the two from the Eldian.
 

Ekid

Member
I was under the impression that the power of the original wasn't one of the nine but maybe it is. Which would mean we are down to eight now.
 
Basement surpassed my expectation, nice job Isayama.

So if I got that right we still don't know how Grisha was able to obtain one of the nine "power" but I guess it was one of the seven in possession of the Marley.
Current possessors are Eren (from Grisha), Armin (from Bertolt), Zeke, Reiner, Annie and Ymir (from Marcel), which mean we are missing one from Marley and the two from the Eldian.

I believe one of the two from the Eldian was the one from the Reiss family that Eren now possesses. It could be possible that the other was the one Grisha used to convert into a titan in the first place before he devoured Frida, but maybe he was just a mindless titan at that moment. The quadruped titan may be one of the other 7, so that would leave only 1 we don't know about.

I wonder what is the relationship between the Fritz and the Reiss families is, though
 

Erigu

Member
In his new life inside the Walls, it saw him living by the laws of the land until a family tragedy made him resent the way of the world and rebel, subsequently using his own son as a pawn in the struggle, only for it to turn on him and cost him his life.
Actually, it looks like Grisha didn't learn about his wife's death until after he killed most of the Reis.
In fact, the timeline escapes me a bit, there. Did he do that because Wall Maria had fallen? That would probably explain his actions (as well as the very fact the Reis were having a secret reunion in their very own hidden basement at the time), but the instructor's flashback makes it look like the instructor learned about the fall just moments before meeting a post-murder Grisha, so it feels a bit weird overall...

I also wonder what's going on with the Fritz and the Reis. Up until now, we were told the Fritz were just stand-ins and the Reis were the true royal family, but now, it's the Fritz who were the royal family and took the power of the original titan? It would be one thing if the Reis somehow took that power from them (but why are they able to use it when Eren can't?), or if they changed names at some point, but even Zeke's narration during the Wall Maria fight, just a few episodes ago, was referring to "King Reis" and what he had done. I'm a bit confused.

Another bit that felt a tad weird to me was that, in her flashbacks, Historia was reading a book about what sure looked a lot like the ancient origins of the titans... except the girl wasn't called "Ymir Fritz", there, but "Krista"? If that book is supposed to be suppressed knowledge (and Historia or her half-sister had it because of their bloodline), it's a bit odd that they still changed the name... and if it's not, it's odd that they didn't change more, isn't it?


I read a comment saying that the titan that ate Eren's mom looks like Dina,mind blown if that’s true(highly unlikely but cool).
Consider that Eren could only use his scream power when he touched that particular titan. He had been in contact with other titans (even intelligent ones) before and after that and nothing happened then. Could be because that was indeed Dina and her royal blood (like when Historia and her father touching him triggered hidden memories).
Also, when that happened, Ymir thought to herself that the world inside the walls might not be hopeless after all, and looked at Historia. I imagine Eren could use his scream power again, with Historia's help?
(although, like I said just above, that sounds like two different royal families... confusing!)


Wasn't Frieda a shifter? What happens when a shifter eats a shifter? Is the power lost forever?
It's apparently transferred (Zeke once talked about giving Reiner's armor to another warrior, and that sure sounded like a threat). Although in that particular instance, it looks like Eren not being of royal blood meant he couldn't really use the power, which is why Historia was to eat him.


It could be possible that the other was the one Grisha used to convert into a titan in the first place before he devoured Frida, but maybe he was just a mindless titan at that moment.
Note that he didn't turn by injecting himself with some fluid, that night. He just cut himself with a scalpel, meaning he had the power to turn at will already. He must have eaten another intelligent titan at some point. Maybe we'll see how that happened next month.
 
I'm incredibly curious how these Marley people infiltrated the Walls. Surely the royal family had some pretty exact record keeping for all of the people on the inside (it's not that big, so it's easy to do). Wouldn't it be weird that a few random kids just show up? Maybe they end up killing a rural family in the Walls, and then the invading kids eat the bodies and just assume that role. Pretend it was some looters or something that killed the family, and then you pretend you're their kid that survived the attack.

- The royal family mindwiped everyone and then committed genocide on the bloodlines who did not play along, forcing those who survived to live in poverty and abuse, literally a subclass of people.

I'm almost positive that we'll see some flashbacks where the underclass in the Walls are made up of people that the King had problems with. "Oh, your family snubbed me this one time? Well, now you're all getting kicked down to the outer ring and you'll be farmers forever."
 

Erigu

Member
I'm incredibly curious how these Marley people infiltrated the Walls. Surely the royal family had some pretty exact record keeping for all of the people on the inside (it's not that big, so it's easy to do).
I seem to remember they mentioned they were helped by the chaos that followed the fall of Wall Maria (plus, if the king was the only one who could even fathom the possibility of human intruders from beyond the wall...).
 

duckroll

Member
Is the Reiss family even real? The assumption I'm operating under now is that the Fritz bloodline basically went into hiding and became the Reiss family, for security reasons, while the current Fritz royal family are just stand-ins for the name. Maybe the king who built the walls was called Reiss Fritz and turned his name into a new family name? I dunno, it's weird.

Also, when they say "first king" in reference to the Coordinate's influence on holders in the Reiss family, they mean the first king within the Walls right? Not the first king from ancient history itself. In fact, am I wrong in thinking that when the original Ymir was around, there wasn't even an empire? It was only after she died and the power was split among the clans that an empire was formed right? I wonder if they'll ever get into that stuff or leave it as pre-history flavor. Since in actual mythology, the various parts of Ymir's body formed the basis of all physical creation - the land, the oceans, the sky, etc.
 

Erigu

Member
Maybe the king who built the walls was called Reiss Fritz and turned his name into a new family name?
I guess that could explain Zeke using the name "Reis" like that... 'Cause aside from that, I'm not sure how he would even know about the whole Reis/Fritz thing: apparently, he himself didn't know much of anything about what was going on inside the walls (he didn't even know about the gear the soldiers were using), and it doesn't look like Reiner and Bertolt had found out about all that either (they just seemed to think Historia was connected to the wall religion and important somehow).

Well, even if that particular bit with Zeke is a plot hole, it's one that could be fixed rather easily by changing his reference to a "King Reis" to "King Fritz". That wouldn't be too bad.

am I wrong in thinking that when the original Ymir was around, there wasn't even an empire? It was only after she died and the power was split among the clans that an empire was formed right?
For Erudia (or however it's spelled in the official English translation), yeah, it was created after Ymir's contract with the devil or whatever. Maare (or however etc) existed before that.
(and of course, for all of the above: "if the story we were told is to be believed, anyway")

I wonder if they'll ever get into that stuff or leave it as pre-history flavor. Since in actual mythology, the various parts of Ymir's body formed the basis of all physical creation - the land, the oceans, the sky, etc.
Considering the title of the very first episode, I think we might still learn more Ymir Fritz and the origins of the titans.
 
Chapter is out but, it looks like nobody cares )=

We get answers now. We get to see how the Titans are made and who they once were. It's pretty terrible.

Marley is implied to be at war with another country.

Marley isn't the sole power on Earth. There are other nations too.
 

ElFly

Member
Chapter is out but, it looks like nobody cares )=

We get answers now. We get to see how the Titans are made and who they once were. It's pretty terrible.

Marley is implied to be at war with another country.

Marley isn't the sole power on Earth. There are other nations too.

was
Owl anyone who had appeared before or just that officer who appeared in this chapter

cannot be arsed to go check the previous chapter
 

kirblar

Member
was
Owl anyone who had appeared before or just that officer who appeared in this chapter

cannot be arsed to go check the previous chapter
He's
Almost certainly the person who had Eren's titan power before Grisha, they look very similar
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Grisha was probably non-stop working on a drug remix for Eren combining all the best traits.
 

Nibel

Member
Kinda cartoon-villainy dialogue in this chapter but I like the explanation behind the titans

Owl looks very similar to Eren (Titan-form of course)
 

Eusis

Member
Was Owl the guy he watched the Zeppelin with? He probably gets eaten (or... whatever twist there is, given the titan serum is titan spinal fluid) by Grisha.

EDIT: Checked quickly. Yeah, I figured I kept track of that all correctly, and don't expect anything to show of him in the present outside of inherited memories or any plans he may have had in motion back in Marley.
 

Eusis

Member
Why did Owl waited so long to reveal himself , he could have just transformed earlier and save everybody .
He pointedly kept his "superior" from hearing about Dina being royalty, so it kind of seems like his plan was in fact to have everyone out of the picture but Grisha for whatever reason. Needing a successor for his plan and guilt over his sister?
 

Genryu

Banned
He pointedly kept his "superior" from hearing about Dina being royalty, so it kind of seems like his plan was in fact to have everyone out of the picture but Grisha for whatever reason. Needing a successor for his plan and guilt over his sister?

Maybe The Owl's plan involves turning Titans back into normal people in some other way, so turning them in to Titans was the safest way to keep them alive.

He did say after they're transformed, there is almost no way they will die.
 

Zoe

Member
Maybe The Owl's plan involves turning Titans back into normal people in some other way, so turning them in to Titans was the safest way to keep them alive.

He did say after they're transformed, there is almost no way they will die.

Well that plan certainly failed...

Which chapter was it where we saw Grisha coming to the wall for the first time?
 

Zoe

Member
Bahahah, dat name reveal

For those not reading in Japanese:
the title of the series is the name of Eren's titan
 

Erigu

Member
Bahahah, dat name reveal
For those not reading in Japanese:
the title of the series is the name of Eren's titan
Guess they'll finally have to come up with a proper English translation of the title after all. A bit too late for that, but hey!
 

Veelk

Banned
I never understood why they named the series what it is. That can't be anything but the most literal translation, when the spirit of the translations would make more sense as "Attack of the Titans".
 

Eusis

Member
I never understood why they named the series what it is. That can't be anything but the most literal translation, when the spirit of the translations would make more sense as "Attack of the Titans".
After that I double checked what it'd translate to, and it'd roughly be "Advancing Giants" going by Wikipedia. Given what was said leading up to the name, I'd imagine "Advancing Titan" would've been appropriate localization but it was hamstrung by needing to be loyal to the already established name.

Though I suppose given the Titan's debut appearance "Attack Titan" works anyway just for mindlessly slaughtering tons of them.
 

duckroll

Member
"Advancing" doesn't remotely capture the nuance of "shingeki" in Japanese. Attack on Titan is not a literal translation of "Shingeki no Kyojin" either, it's.... I don't know what it is. It's barely English. The more literal translation would be Blitz Titan, but that sounds kinda stupid and doesn't roll off the tongue as well.
 

Eusis

Member
There's something kind of ironic about how a series with a mostly European styled culture has one of its most important names being a pain to actually translate to another language.

Well, maybe there's a decent sounding option in German anyway!

EDIT: Except for the fact Blitz IS German. Should've remembered but English has adopted so many words over time.
 

Veelk

Banned
I am a supporter for preserving the meaningful intent of the words rather than the literal translation. Attack of the Titan fits the series the best, even if it's less accurate.
 
"Advancing" doesn't remotely capture the nuance of "shingeki" in Japanese. Attack on Titan is not a literal translation of "Shingeki no Kyojin" either, it's.... I don't know what it is. It's barely English. The more literal translation would be Blitz Titan, but that sounds kinda stupid and doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

I've heard the translation comes directly from the author. That's why it's persisted so long.
 

ElFly

Member
Armin: "you know, Eren, you really are the Attack Titan"

Eren: "but...you forgot the 'on' part"

Armin: "English is hard"
 
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