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Battletech |KS| Turn-based tactical mech combat, Harebrained Schemes, Summer 2017

Woorloog

Banned
Huh. Can't help but wonder, did i let something loose by posting about the case? I mean, suddenly threads are popping up about this. Though it is very possible others did what i did with the release of TRO:SW missing Macross-based 'Mechs: google if Harmony Gold was fucking around.

Thread about this appeared on both official (tabletop) BattleTech forums and MWO forums. Yet to check HBS BT forums... EDIT There too. Reddit as well. EDIT KS comments too.
 

Woorloog

Banned
It seemed to me like everything was cleared when the Unseen came back. Not sure why this would change.

Does Harmony Gold need reason? I described them to my brother as "suing you for just mentioning Robotech" (I meant Macross). Not sure my description is inaccurate.
 

Woorloog

Banned
There is a trial date for next year. Though naturally the case might be solved before.

It seems InMediaRes (Catalyst Game Labs is a trade name) is involved. Curiously those dates are set near when Ben H. Rome (former tabletop BattleTech writer and developer) tweeted "apocalypse coming to certain line is coming".
I wonder if it is related.

On the other hand, someone dug up some old article how Harmony Gold could actually easily lose a court case due to erroneous rights: http://kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years

EDIT More stuff: https://www.pacermonitor.com/public...Gold_USA,_Inc_v_Harebrained_Schemes_LLC_et_al
 

Rommel

Junior Member
There is a trial date for next year. Though naturally the case might be solved before.

It seems InMediaRes (Catalyst Game Labs is a trade name) is involved. Curiously those dates are set near when Ben H. Rome (former tabletop BattleTech writer and developer) tweeted "apocalypse coming to certain line is coming".
I wonder if it is related.

On the other hand, someone dug up some old article how Harmony Gold could actually easily lose a court case due to erroneous rights: http://kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years

EDIT More stuff: https://www.pacermonitor.com/public...Gold_USA,_Inc_v_Harebrained_Schemes_LLC_et_al

Honestly I could see them losing since the environment for patent trolls hasn't been very good lately.
 

Woorloog

Banned
I wonder will HBS and PGI settle though. Probably depends if on if their lawyers think they have good chance of winning at court?
 

deim0s

Member
I hope HBS/PGI gets away from this shit quick.

I don't know why they still toy with the idea of reintegrating the unseens/re-seens back to BT - they could've just retcon everything about it and be done with it. Being nostalgic can only go so far.

Let HG rot with their shitty "license" of Macross and nothing to troll anyone further.
 
I wonder will HBS and PGI settle though. Probably depends if on if their lawyers think they have good chance of winning at court?

If they think they have it in lock, they might go to court more to dissuade further copyright trolling by HG than for any monetary wins. Otherwise, unless MS gets involved, they'll probably try and settle. Court cases are expensive.
 
There's been apparently some movement on getting a Robotech film happening.

I can imagine that Harmony Gold saw the opportunity to reinforce their copyrights, whilst making a quick buck.
It was settled in Japanese courts that Harmony Gold never actually had any copyrights, but had authority to distribute in America.
That Japanese ruling could also be why PGI, HBS, and CGL have been reintegrating the unseen mechs,
There was never any ruling for Harmony Gold in America... it's always been settled (to my knowledge).

I don't know if overseas courts can be used as precedent in America... but I hope someone with money gets involved and puts Harmony Gold up against the wall.
I'm really sick of this shit coming up every few years.

I hope Harmony Gold loses, and I hope that they have to pay damages for all the years they've been fucking around.
 
I wonder will HBS and PGI settle though. Probably depends if on if their lawyers think they have good chance of winning at court?

Depends, a suit can be a big hurdle that puts a stop to alot of work, costing them alot of money. Lot of times these suits are done simply to hassle companies to toss a settlement out to make it go away quickly, cause fighting it can be costly and get dragged out for years. The amount of people HG is tossing into this suit, just screams out that they are trolling for settlements, cause they have no way to fight and win against all these people, and their claims are paper thin.

The system is stupid, and in large part just because of how much lawyers charge, this stuff is abused. HG may have no chance to win, but they can just be a dick and get a payout easy.

HG should lose, but it will require a long process to fight them, and a lot of money. And even if they win, not much can be done, both sides just lose money by fighting, so then more money has to be spent to go after money from HG to recoup the lawyer fees or damages. This all takes alot of time, and time costs lawyer fees.
 

Lime

Member
New update, the major stuff are:

  • new patch for the current backer skirmish beta
  • PVP will be coming very soon
  • Delay of the game to early 2018 (I expected this)
 

Woorloog

Banned
Tabletop BattleTech news:

New box sets coming in 6 to 12 months. (My bet is second or third quarter next year, ie later rather than sooner.)
A beginner box, with 2 plastic miniatures and some stuff (rules, etc.), with preliminary price point about $20 (at least, that was when it was first told CGL was thinking about new box sets last year). Minis are Griffin and Wolverine.
And standard box with 8 plastic miniatures, with a short story, rules, map sheet, stuff like that. Minis are Locust, Commando, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Catapult, Awesome, BattleMaster. All are new sculpts. EDIT Price is apparently about $60, so a tad expensive compared to previous box set but apparently the plastic quality is even better. YMMV if a good thing, but with a cheaper beginner set, i reckon it is all right.

Prototype pics (featuring classics only) on the official forums.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58071.msg1343911#msg1343911

If someone wonders why no Warhammer and the like when there are some of the unseen in the box despite new art... well, Harmony Gold is at it again (primarily against PGI and HBS video games but naturally CGL is part of the case as well). But non-Macross-based 'Mechs are OK.

EDIT And i posted this on the wrong tab. Was supposed to go to Miniatures thread. Guess i'll post this there as well.

EDIT Corrections to (preliminary) prices: $25 for beginner's, $60 for standard.
 
Should I even get a beta key at this point or wait?
Tabletop BattleTech news:

New box sets coming in 6 to 12 months. (My bet is second or third quarter next year, ie later rather than sooner.)
A beginner box, with 2 plastic miniatures and some stuff (rules, etc.), with preliminary price point about $20 (at least, that was when it was first told CGL was thinking about new box sets last year). Minis are Griffin and Wolverine.
And standard box with 8 plastic miniatures, with a short story, rules, map sheet, stuff like that. Minis are Locust, Commando, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Catapult, Awesome, BattleMaster. All are new sculpts.

Prototype pics (featuring classics only) on the official forums.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58071.msg1343911#msg1343911

If someone wonders why no Warhammer and the like when there are some of the unseen in the box despite new art... well, Harmony Gold is at it again (primarily against PGI and HBS video games but naturally CGL is part of the case as well). But non-Macross-based 'Mechs are OK.

EDIT And i posted this on the wrong tab. Was supposed to go to Miniatures thread. Guess i'll post this there as well.

This is good to hear.
 

Lime

Member
I looked closer at the whole Harmony Gold thing and apparently Piranha Games are making a stand with a number of dismissals that will take them to court, while Harebrained Schemes are saying that there's no basis for the suit. Meanwhile, Catalyst Game Labs are smaller business and are treading lightly as they probably don't have the legal resources, so they're more in a wait and see. With how aggressive PGI seems to be, I hope and think there is some sort of chance that Harmony Gold are in a worse position than what those comparison images would show.

Reading some comments online, it looks like Harmony Gold hoped to settle out of court, but since PGI basically took up the fight, things are going differently. Right now Harmony Gold are suing the people that sold them the rights to the original Macross - Tatsunoko Productions. As someone on the Battletech subreddit wrote:

I would guess that some of their other lawsuits have run into the brick wall of having to prove they actually own the copyrighted images. Which they say they do on paper, but the company they licensed from Tatsunoku didn't own them, just the rights to distribute the anime. Now they are facing the possibility of a full blown court case since the parties in the other lawsuit are asking for a jury trial and Harmony Gold probably wasn't properly prepard for that outcome as they seemed to be fishing for a settlement. This seems like they might be trying to re-affirm what they own in their purchase from Tatsunoko.

Having said that and being only an armchair observer it could end badly if it comes out that Tatsunoko didn't actually sell them the rights that they claim to have. Who knows though.
 

DodgerSan

Member
The changelog is really, really good: https://s3.amazonaws.com/www.harebr...ker-beta/BackerBetaCombatUpdate_Changelog.pdf

I kinda burned out on the singleplayer skirmish mode after five or six games (without story/progression or human opponents, it's hard to get invested in lengthy fights against the AI), but I'll give it another whirl tonight.

Me too, but it's amazing how just the changes to the mech selection (4 Atlas vs? Four locusts vs 2 Assaults?) have widened the scope. Once we have Mechlab in the full game it should be really fun.
 

Lime

Member
Lol, so all the lawsuit crap could be a failed bluff to make a few bucks?

That is strange.

From the BT forums:

There's been some speculation that HG's intent was just to get an agreement out of it, because note the time frames - this suit was going at the same time as their arbitration with Tatsunoko, and with the Big West ownership locked in the writing was on the wall. Try to get PGI/whoever to give up before it gets entered into court record for once and for all that the ownership of the Macross mechs is not and has not been HG's since 2003 (or 2002, depending).

That said, the arbitration's determination of the situation is legally binding as hell, and well...they very clearly don't have the rights they claim. It's in HG's best interest to drop the suit, though I imagine PGI's lawyer is polishing up their most delicious petition for dismissal ever.
 

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
The podcast that I am on with my good friend Andrew did a super awesome interview with Mitch Gitelman and Jordan Weisman of Harebrained Schemes! We are both backers of this Kickstarter and were so excited by the beta that we had to reach out and talk to the creators to try and learn more about them and spread the good word of Battletech.

We chatted with them about Battletech (both the upcoming game and the universe and lore), what it is like making games and starting their own studio, and more.

The podcast is We Were Gamers, it can be downloaded from the usual places: iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher or from our website's RSS .

Quick note to people coming just for the interview (which I'm guessing is mostly everyone in this thread), the podcast has an intro telling you that the interview starts at the 29min mark, but ACTUALLY it's closer to the 31min mark! Editing a podcast is weird! Sorry about that.
 
The podcast that I am on with my good friend Andrew did a super awesome interview with Mitch Gitelman and Jordan Weisman of Harebrained Schemes! We are both backers of this Kickstarter and were so excited by the beta that we had to reach out and talk to the creators to try and learn more about them and spread the good word of Battletech.

We chatted with them about Battletech (both the upcoming game and the universe and lore), what it is like making games and starting their own studio, and more.

The podcast is We Were Gamers, it can be downloaded from the usual places: iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher or from our website's RSS .

Quick note to people coming just for the interview (which I'm guessing is mostly everyone in this thread), the podcast has an intro telling you that the interview starts at the 29min mark, but ACTUALLY it's closer to the 31min mark! Editing a podcast is weird! Sorry about that.

Thanks for the heads up.
 

Lime

Member
New Q&A on the sim portion of the game and some campaign details - this is quite some juicy stuff for those interested in the game's meta-systems: - thanks to gazra for the write-up

made notes of this superb developer Q&A (October 11):

The single-player story covers a bunch of hand-crafted, very detailed, story-driven missions of the kind that you more or less expect from HBS. Filling in all of the wander around the galaxy getting in trouble mercenary stuff are a huge ***-ton of ad hoc content that you can do - take contracts for great houses, take contracts for local planetary governments. The purpose of those is to level up your guys and get better equipment. Making money is the whole point of your mercenary outfit. Some of these jobs pay better than others, some of them are more above-board than others.

You're helping Kamea reclaim her throne. To do that, you're the elite MechWarrior force that she is going to use for missions that are too dangerous for normal troops. You're also going to support her armies in taking key planets away from the Directorate. So this leaves you with a lot of down-time to roam and to grow your mercenary outfit from a small band of a few MechWarriors to a fully-fledged outfit that can help her in the war effort.

There will be randomly generated characters.

Every pilot that you hire has actually gone through a life-path style career progression. You know where they come from, you know what kind of education that they had, you know what twists and turns their career has taken. They might start out as a commoner but fall into a life of crime and end up as a convict but then get recruited into a pirate crew after coming out of prison. There can be nobles, disgraced nobles, wealthy traders and businessmen who are looking for excitement and adventure. There are disgraced ComStar adepts as a possibility, Solaris gladiators. When you're looking at a character, you're not just looking at their stats, you're looking at their dossier - it's their resume basically, which shows the things that they've done and all of the things that you can count on them for. That life-path process doesn't just generate their stats - it also generates all of the tags and descriptive personality traits that key into the event system and other systems to basically flesh that person out. An example is Bob Kurita the pilot, who is a former tech, he knows a little bit about 'Mech maintenance, he's hot-headed and kind of rebellious - all of those things will influence the kinds of content that Bob ends up doing getting pulled into on the ship.

I think that one of the pilots that you start with developed contacts in prison and became a hired killer when she got out of prison.

Onboard the Argo, your mercenary outfit's morale is a number on a scale from 0 to 50. In combat, morale is a number on a scale from 0 to 100, so it's possible to start combat with the morale bar half-filled. Your mercenary outfit's morale affects the kinds of events that you will get. If you keep your morale in the toilet, you have MechWarriors who will want to leave, who will come to you and say "Look, I got a better offer." Rebellious MechWarriors will become mutinous. Conversely, if you keep your morale really high, you will get benefits from that. You will have MechWarriors who are eager to join you, MechWarriors who are helping each other out more. Individual MechWarriors can have things that make them happier or unhappy. A very militaristic MechWarrior who is used to military discipline is probably not going to be entirely happy if you set your spending levels to the highest level of extravagance. Conversely, a MechWarrior who comes from a wealthy family and is used to being treated well is going to be really upset if you're forcing them into spartan accommodations. Specific MechWarrior personality traits can end up applying high or low morale to that MechWarrior, and when they go into battle, if they have high or low morale, that changes the amount of morale you have to spend to activate those abilities. With a MechWarrior with high morale, you can pop off those abilities like crazy. A low morale MechWarrior is going to be a struggle to get all of those abilities to work, and you're going to end up paying for it in the long term.

There are 5 levels of expenditure that you can set, that affects your expenditure across the board, for maintenance, for salaries. There is a whole set of events that only happen when you've got your finances turned low (spartan). If you crank your expenditure all the way up to extravagant, there's a whole set of events that only happen when you are at extravagant. Those expenditure levels give you morale. Every quarter, you get morale or lose morale based on what you've set that expenditure dial to.

Money is the only way that you can lose this game.

Buying expansions for the Argo allows certain events to occur. The Argo starts out gutted, with just some engines and maybe some partially functional Mech Bays. It's a garbage place to live. You can spend a ton of money, resources and time on the Argo. That lets you build things like zero-G pools, hydroponic farms, and cool stuff like that, that your MechWarriors like, and that unlock specific events related to those things.

Contracts have encounters which are a building block of content. Scenarios include a simple battle or defend a base. "Defend a base" can have some different moving parts to it. The base could have turrets. The turrets could need to be turned on. There could be 1 wave of enemies, 2 waves , or 3 waves. The spacing of those waves could be different. How tough the buildings are that you are protecting can vary. We build all of that variation into the encounter itself. What is this base? Is it a maintenance base that you are defending? Is it an ammo depot? What kind of forces are attacking it? Are they elite Kuritan assault 'Mechs? Are they garbage pirate 'Mechs that they have scavenged from a battlefield? The contract can say this is going to be 1 wave of enemies, no turrets, and you just defend it, or you have to turn the turrets on, you have to defend the techs and the APCs because there are going to be 3 waves and the third wave is going to just kick your ass - it's going to be hugely difficult to beat them. The person writing the contract can basically use the encounter as a toolkit to build the piece of content that they want.

There are 8 different types of objectives possible in contracts, including:

Defend a base.

Capture a base.

Destroy a base.

Assassinate a target.

The employer and target are randomized. We look at who owns the system. We look at the kind of people who live there or who have an interest there. We look at the potential targets for that system. For example, the local government that owns this planet needs you to wipe out this pirate base. The Davion forces that are looking to destabilize the Taurian government of this border-world have asked you to go and sabotage one of their munitions factories. The contracts available depend on where you are in the game-world, where you are in the story, and random chance. If you have a high enough reputation with House Davion, then a special contract comes up.

The sim game is entirely data-driven using json files.

You can't talk directly to MechWarriors in your employ.

There are 2 types of story (Restoration) missions. You have to help the Restoration either take or keep an important planet. One of the founding Houses of the Aurigan Reach. When you're responding to one of those missions, it is time sensitive. If you ignore those missions, they will eventually conquer the Restoration.

Contract rewards are money (C-Bill payment), salvage, and reputation gains. If you are under-budget on both money and salvage, you will receive bonus reputation.

Most planets have a very limited selection of items available, and they're also slightly randomized.

Reputation unlocks the really hard stuff, and it makes shopping or generally working with that faction cheaper. They're more friendly to you. They give you better deals.

There is a difficulty scaling that determines the kinds of 'Mechs that spawn, the kinds of opposition forces that you're going to face, and that's based on a global scale that progresses across the course of the entire story. So when you start out, you're going to face lances that are like a Locust and a couple of vehicles. When you're at the end, you're going to face Steiner scout lances. When you take a mission, you might take it as a difficulty 3 mission early on in the game, and it's just a bunch of low-end light 'Mechs. The same mission at difficulty 8 is going to be a bunch of heavies and assaults.

The difficulty range is variable. When you go look at the contract list, you'll see there's a 3-star one, there's a 4-star one, here's a 2-star one - that one is going to be really easy. You'll be able to set how hard you want your content to be by just taking the easy contracts - they pay less, the salvage is not going to be as good, the reputation gains will be lower, but if you're limping along, that might be the right choice for you. Gradually over time, those really easy ones are going to fall off the bottom end, and more high-end stuff is going to appear. Different regions of the game-world are harder than others. If you go do missions at the Davion-Taurian border, that's a hard area, you're going to see some pretty serious stuff there, because that's a flash-point, that's where some conflict is happening. If you're doing missions for local yokels on a backwater planet in the middle of the unsettled part of the Reach, that's going to be low-end content, you're going to be fighting pirates who have scrabbled together lances out of spare parts.

MechWarriors get to choose 2 specialization skills (that determine your level 5 abilities), and gain expertise in one of those specialization skills. When your expertise skill reaches a value of 10, you become elite which causes you to help other people level up faster. You unlock class names such as Sharpshooter.

MechWarriors do not come with 'Mechs.

You can rename MechWarriors. You can change their first and last names. You can change their callsigns. You can change their pronoun. You can change their portrait. You can rename your 'Mechs.

The salary of a MechWarrior increases as they level up. It's always cheaper to have someone that you trained up yourself. Points that they gained while they were in your employ are cheaper to have rather than points that are gained before you hired them. MechWarriors that you train up yourself will have a salary about two thirds that of a premium MechWarrior that you hire.

You will make the Argo much more expensive to operate over time as you upgrade it. Fuel price does not fluctuate.

When you negotiate for salvage, you're negotiating for both a total amount of salvage, let's say 8 (items), and an amount of priority salvage, let's say 2 (priority items). They're negotiated at the same rate, so it's 4 & 1, 8 & 2, 12 & 3, etc. When the salvage comes up, what's in the available salvage is literally what was on the 'Mechs that you killed. The game tracks damage and destruction. If you blow up (destroy) a Panther's right arm, you can't get the PPC as salvage because it's gone. Anything that you actually blow off or destroy or reduce to scrap, you can't get as salvage. You need to be careful with your killing. Everything that wasn't obliterated is in the salvage pool. You get to take first pick (of 2 priority items) out of everything available. Then your employer randomly gives you some of what is remaining up to the amount of salvage that you got (6 items randomly chosen by your employer). The employer keeps the rest. Some contracts will offer you up to 20 salvage (5 priority items chosen by you and 15 randomly chosen items). The lowest salvage possible is 4 (1 priority item). The employer and the kind of mission determine the maximum amount of salvage that you can negotiate for. If you're doing a snatch-and-grab where you're rescuing someone from a base and running to an evac point where you're going to be met by a Leopard, you probably aren't going to get much salvage from that mission because you don't have time to hang around and loot the place. If it's a destroy a base mission where you go in and level everything, then you'll get to pick through everything that is left, you'll probably be able to negotiate for more salvage.

In the development branch of this game, there has been tuning of weapons. Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of changes that people either hate or love.

Q: "Will there be melee weapons?"

A: Not at launch, but in success, all things are possible.

Q: "Does the employer negotiator (the person that you're actually negotiating with) reflect on your ability to negotiate a contract?"

A: No. In the future, we hope that you will get to see more of them.

You can't actually work directly for the Directorate during the single-player campaign. If you don't do the Restoration, eventually the Directorate will win, and then they become another faction that you can take jobs from.

You won't be able to battle underwater but you will be able to battle in a vacuum on the surface of an atmosphereless planetoid (you won't be able to battle in space though).

The event system has shore-leave events in it.

The loan system will be similar to the loan system in the video game Cities: Skylines.

You won't be getting double heat sinks.

If you're in Taurian capital worlds where it's super high-tech and they have massive weapons factories, it's pretty reasonable that you could find specialized weapons. Specialized weapons are by manufacturer, which means that the manufacturers have Houses that they are associated with, so you will need to go to the right area of space to get that manufacturer's weapons.

Q: "Will side torso destruction with the arm falling off make weapons in the corresponding arm unsalvageable?"

A: No. The arm is not actually destroyed - you just blew it off.

The combat tutorial is a fairly short and sweet primer on how to move and shoot with your 'Mechs and it also sets the ground-work for the story. The combat tutorial is in the story.

Q: "Will there be stand-alone scenarios like famous battles from Total War?"

A: Not at launch, but in success etc. etc.
 

StereoVsn

Gold Member
The above sounds fascinating. I am really looking toward the release. Is there any word on potential date yet? Q2 next year?
 
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