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[runnin_blue]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Nintendoes what Segadon't!

Winner!

 

[ConradCervantes]

This is going to end up with a below 90 metascore because of brain dead reviews like Polygons. Yes, the scores do matter, don't try and ruin a game's success because of your stupid irrelevant opinions that don't relate to the game's quality at all. Saddens me.

Utterly pathetic. Platinum aren't crying over Polygon's review, why are you? Enjoy the damn game.

 

[Cronox]

Before criticizing the Polygon review I'd like to say that I'm sure there are imperfections in Bayonetta 2 and things worth criticizing about it. And the idea that reviewers should be padding their scores to help with Metacritic-based dev team bonuses is bullshit.

That said, I do not think it's aesthetic and use of sexuality is worth criticizing. This is the second game in what is now a franchise. The first game got plenty of criticism for the way its heroine looked and how she flaunts her sexuality. Fine. But to use the same argument again for lowering a sequel's score is not valid, in my opinion. At this point, the writer doesn't have a problem with the game, he has a problem with the intellectual property. This is what Bayonetta games are like. If there is a Bayonetta 3, 4, etc Gies' criticisms will not change, and only become sillier.

Gies' review reads as if he expected a sequel that does everything "bigger, better and more badass" to somehow skimp on amping up the sexual innuendo of Bayonetta 1, as if the B1 criticisms at the time it released should have shamed the dev team into revamping the IP.

To repeat myself (forgive me, trying to get my point across), it's as if a reviewer of Gears of War commented that he thought the chainsaw kills were too violent, then made the same comments and lowered the score for Gears of War 2 because you can still chainsaw locusts and in many ways it's even bloodier now. Now Gears of War 3 comes... and guess what, the IP always incorporated gore and chainsawing dudes, and will continue to feature these things. To have a problem with that is to have a problem with the franchise, and has nothing to do with the quality of the games.

 

[Papercuts]

Publishers care about sales, not quality, though.

Excuse me while I remember W101 sales and cry.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I fundamentally disagree with Bayonetta being sexist and think a lot of people are confusing being sexy with perpetuating sexism. I don't see how anyone could walk away from Bayonetta respecting women and their right to choose their own path LESS. It might not be the kind of diversity Gies is looking for in a game, but a complete female power fantasy that completely ignores what males think is "cool" (just look at how many of them are ashamed of seeing female sexuality represented in such a dominant way) certainly isn't a theme that has been explored to death in video games.

That said, he's entitled to his opinion and if it bothered his enjoyment of the game, then he should certainly make that a part of his review. Honestly, I don't even care about reviews and especially not about games in this genre from people I generally disagree with (Gies being one of the top contenders). The only thing I was hoping for in reviews was that the game isn't a horrible piece of shit and that my Wii U purchase wasn't in vain. These scores and the demo put me at ease.

Awesome post. Bayonetta is a bad ass and owns the female sexuality that is so clumsily portrayed in a lot of media. Its like satire and empowerment in one giant ass kicking package. I think Gies might've seen it as the opposite. Oh well.

 

[honeymustardn]

Utterly pathetic. Platinum aren't crying over Polygon's review, why are you? Enjoy the damn game.

I think you'd be surprised.

 

[big_z]

Does Gies not get Bayonetta at all? That blatant over the top fan service is like who she is. Was he expecting her to become a nun in the sequel?

Not surprised at the polygon score after listening to this weeks rebelfm. Arthur likes the game, bayonetta is best in class for its gameplay according to him, but says the perv level is way higher than the first game.

I enjoyed the first bayonetta but some of the content I wouldn't want others to walk in and see. If this one is worse I can see where he's coming from. Uncomfortable content can detract from overall personal enjoyment. Whether or not that should affect a review score is hard to say. The balance of personal opinion and game quality for its audience can be a fine line. That said Arthur needs to take some time and reflect over his OCD obsession on being PC about everything. Ive been listening to him since the first rebelfm and he wasn't always like this but the last few years its like he's been consumed by the bullshit.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I think it's part of a larger challenge of where reviews are going in the internet age. There's a wider base of voices, and ways to be heard than ever before. That opens limitless possibilities for how we critique a piece of media.

Yet, most people only see reviews through aggregators. Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes are useful tools for the average consumer, because they're damn good at giving you a baseline expectation. I can see a green splotch on a movie's page, and 90% of the time it'll predict my enjoyment of it.

The reality is that people don't read reviews. They read scores. That number is Polygon's most lasting contribution to Bayonetta 2, whether they like it or not. Should it take into account something beyond the game's control? What good does that do a consumer if it's not accurate to the experience they pay for?

I think the best move is to write scored reviews as they'll be used. Then, if you want to write a more intimate look at the game - don't put a number on it.

Again, reviews shouldn't just be consumer advocacy. They can be, if that's a site mission, and good luck to them.

But, a review should be about whatever the reviewer feels it should be (as long as it's truthful) and the reviewer should be able to score it however they want too. There are movie reviewers out there who absolute hate anything big budget and thus, never review those type of movies well. Fine. That's their prerogative.

Sadly, most people, especially the target audience, for example, probably didn't see the anti-war message in Starship Troopers. But, it was there, and reviewers picked up on it. Should they have just panned the movie because it was full of bad acting, or should the review taken into the account of everything about the movie, even things most normal people wouldn't notice when they watch it?

 

[Lothars]

Why are people comparing Bayonetta to those Naughty Dog movies?

Because the Naughty Dog games are fantastic and deserve the reviews they get, It sounds like Bayonetta 2 does as well. I have no interest in it but good on platinum for making another great game.

 

[Shane]

Some odd reactions to that single review here.
Great to see the game coming out well (and I don't own the system). If it is as good as the reviews state let's hope it sells well enough to encourge more of the same quality.

 

[Recall]

I think you'd be surprised.

Reviews are not personal attacks so don't take them personally.

 

[Doczu]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Nintendoes what Segadon't!

Clearly a winner here.

 

[Bl@de]

I expect a minimum of 9.0 on metacritic. GOTY awards incoming

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

This is going to end up with a below 90 metascore because of brain dead reviews like Polygons. Yes, the scores do matter, don't try and ruin a game's success because of your stupid irrelevant opinions that don't relate to the game's quality at all. Saddens me.

You've completed the game already?

 

[Fried Food]

Man, after all the talk over poor performance/frame rate I'd written the game off as dead. Def going to be picking this bad boy up. Now to solve my lack of a wii u situation.

 

[The_Dude]

I feel like 3D World was this

While Tropical Freeze was THIS

I shudder to think what Bayonetta is...

This is a great post in so many ways.

 

[RecursiveFault]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Nintendoes what Segadon't!

All of my support.

 

[Kanyon]

Polygon's review reads like someone going into a strip club to get a drink they love and getting mad when there are tits everywhere.

HAHAHAHA, brilliant!

Been watching a few gameplay videos on YouTube, looks like an absolute balls to the wall fun game.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Pure Platinum

Already done or suggested?

 

[Richie]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Thank You Mario, But The Queen Has Taken Over The Castle

Bayonetta 2 OT - They're stealing OUR 10/10's!

You guys are amazing.

 

[knkng]

Polygon's review reads like someone going into a strip club to get a drink they love and getting mad when there are tits everywhere.

Unless that strip club is in GTA 5, then it's perfectly ok...

 

[JesseEwiak]

To repeat myself (forgive me, trying to get my point across), it's as if a reviewer of Gears of War commented that he thought the chainsaw kills were too violent, then made the same comments and lowered the score for Gears of War 2 because you can still chainsaw locusts and in many ways it's even bloodier now. Now Gears of War 3 comes... and guess what, the IP always incorporated gore and chainsawing dudes, and will continue to feature these things. To have a problem with that is to have a problem with the franchise, and has nothing to do with the quality of the games.

That would be perfectly fine. If people keep on doing bad things, in your mind, are you not allowed to criticize them? I mean, just for example, should people stop saying Transformers movies are bad because Michael Bay isn't going to change? Of course not.

 

[Interceptor]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Your mom is with Nintendo now.

 

[Fady K]

Can't be said enough: Thank you Nintendo for supporting Platinum in finishing this project.

 

[NumberThree]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Game of the Year - just ask your mom

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Nintendoes what Segadon't!

Now that's good.

 

[Famassu]

Hey, so, my thoughts.

First, here's my review.

I love me some character-action games, and I recognize Bayonetta as one of the best and deepest in that genre. But I'm also sort of over this kind of game. We've been playing these types of things for a while now, and I don't think Bayonetta 2 does too much to totally rejuvenate this style.

But that's about the worst thing I can say about it. I loved my time with it, and I think that Bayonetta is just the coolest fucking person in a video game, movie, book, or comic right now.

Eh, there aren't enough character action games (really, the last great one was released in 2009/2010 and that was the first Bayonetta) and Bayonetta in itself is a game like no other, so a second game in its style that doesn't reinvent the wheel is hardly grounds for calling for some Grand Rejuvenation of the whole genre.

 

[Feep]

Of course the reviewer can have his opinion, but I believe the Polygon review does a poor job actually doing its readers a service.

Coming to a review of Bayonetta 2, it's likely the reader already has some idea of what playing Bayonetta entails. If they don't, a warning up at the top regarding the game's views and presentation on sexuality is certainly warranted. However, the reader of this review wants to be informed of the quality of the game itself, and the Polygon review does a relatively poor job at this...everything is "tainted" by personal ideology.

The place for that sort of discussion should be in an opinion piece. For readers who are interested in the series, it was a fairly useless and dismissive review.

All that said, whatever. It's their site. I certainly don't visit Polygon very often, and that's my choice.

 

[Acid08]

Everyone but Polygon raving about it? So it's fucking amazing.

Best sidescrolling platformer of all time and now the best action game of all time (IMO). Been a good fantastic year for Nintendo.

Honestly curious...have you completed the game?

 

[Inuhanyou]

I went and read the whole Polygon review... big focus on the oversexualation part in the article. Don't really understand the multplayer gripes either thats what the mode is a competitive vs mode to see who scores more.

Ressing a downed partner should be a choice if you think you can solo the rest of the enemies you are rewarded with victory if you die you look stupid for not bringing your friend back.

Some choice quotes:


I mean he talks about this way more then anything else in his review. It seems like hes really offended by this so why is he reviewing the game when its clear he can't deal with sexualized women in video games?

We can make it a game to count how many times he says "sexualization" in the whole piece.

TLOU, now this...Gies really hates things not in his little world ey?

 

[-COOLIO-]

wow!

 

[uncredited male]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Nintendoes what Segadon't!

Drop the fucking mic.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Satoru, You Want To Publish Me?

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Haha. Polygon as always being Polygon. Marking down the game due to some stupid gender politics.

 

[Fady K]

With New Super Mario Bros. WiiU, ZombieU, Bayonetta 2, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country Returns Tropical Freeze, the next Fatal Frame, The Wonderful 101 and X the WiiU is a great buy for those games alone.

 

[superpickleman]

Unsurprised by the scores but pleased none the less, Platinum Games is top tier.

I can't wait to get my hands on that beautiful pair next week.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Of course the reviewer can have his opinion, but I believe the Polygon review does a poor job actually doing its readers a service.

Coming to a review of Bayonetta 2, it's likely the reader already has some idea of what playing Bayonetta entails. Even if they don't, a warning up at the top regarding the game's views and presentation on sexuality is certainly warranted. However, the reader of this review wants to be informed of the quality of the game itself, and the Polygon review does a relatively poor job at this...everything is "tainted" by personal ideology.

The place for that sort of discussion should be in an opinion piece. For readers who are interested in the series, it was a fairly useless and dismissive review.

So, reviews should only be about the things you're interested within the game, and not about what the reviewer thinks is important, right?

 

[runnin_blue]

Some odd reactions to that single review here.
Great to see the game coming out well (and I don't own the system). If it is as good as the reviews state let's hope it sells well enough to encourge more of the same quality.

Why are their reactions odd? His review sticks out like a light globe in a cave when compared to the other reviews and they are pointing that out.

Again, why is that odd?

 

[Razma1]

I question that you even read the review if you actually think the quotes you pulled make up "way more then anything else in his review."

This is the nature of criticism. That stuff obviously had an impact on how much he was able to enjoy the game and he wrote a review that reflected that while simultaneously praising the gameplay mechanics.

First section of the article mentions it twice. Almost the entire second part is about it including an all caps header. 3rd section has no mentions. And the final section has a giant all caps header that mentions it along with half of the writing underneath it being about it.

I feel like that's a bit excessive. 2/3 of the parts of the review that stick out talk about it along with 8 total paragraphs.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

It's a little more than that when developer bonuses are often directly tied to Metacritic scores. We're talking about people's livelihoods.

Game journalists/critics shouldn't care at all about these industry's shenanigans when they review something.

About the Polygon article, it seemed to me that Gies' main gripe in the sexualization department were the gratuitous crotch/tits/ass shots, and the impossible body poses that are designed to better show those same crotch/tits/ass: these things actively go against an otherwise strong and interesting female protagonist. One thing is strength in one's own sexiness and beauty, there's nothing wrong with that: another thing is objectifying a character with gratuitous and unneeded crotch shots, and I can understand that someone could be disturbed/distracted by those (I would), with the effect of diminishing one's enjoyment of the game. That being said, maybe Gies' let this personal issue influence his score more than it was necessary, impoverishing the quality of his review.

 

[QuantumZebra]

You guys are amazing.

This is my favorite thread in a while

 

[Cronox]

That would be perfectly fine. If people keep on doing bad things, in your mind, are you not allowed to criticize them? I mean, just for example, should people stop saying Transformers movies are bad because Michael Bay isn't going to change? Of course not.

The Transformers movies are bad though. And they're bad for plenty of objective reasons any film school student could point out. I'm talking about criticism of a quality inherent to the intellectual property. I reject your comparison.

 

[plasmawave]

I went and read the whole Polygon review... big focus on the oversexualation part in the article. Don't really understand the multplayer gripes either thats what the mode is a competitive vs mode to see who scores more.

Ressing a downed partner should be a choice if you think you can solo the rest of the enemies you are rewarded with victory if you die you look stupid for not bringing your friend back.

Some choice quotes:











I mean he talks about this way more then anything else in his review. It seems like hes really offended by this so why is he reviewing the game when its clear he can't deal with sexualized women in video games?

Sex is yucky.

 

[18-Volt]

You know what to do gaf, GotY the game. More Goty this game gets, more likely for them to make third one. Or even a Wonderful 101 2, with a label saying "from the creators of 2014 GotY Bayonetta 2".

Yet I can see Gaf making The Last of Us GotY one more time.

 

[CambriaRising]

Haha. Polygon as always being Polygon. Marking down the game due to some stupid gender politics.

The fact that you think it's politics and not legitimate criticism says a lot.

 

[ashleythedragon]

The first game was a 10/10 game for me already, so I've no doubt this one is too. At least, not only me thinks it now! I hope this helps people to see the first one as the amazing game it is, and not a failure like many thought it was a few years ago.
About the sexualization of Bayonetta, Woman here, and I think Bayonetta is the right way to do a female character. It doesn't matter if she is sexy or not, but she is strong and capable herself. That's how it should be always, a woman who is not just a pair of boobs ( even if she has and even laughs at the trope of it).

 

[Arion]

The fact that it's Nintendo and it's super Japaneses means no GOTY awards. Sorry guys.

The reviews are great and the fans will love it but I doubt we will see Yusuke Hashimoto at the VGA, BAFTA or DICE awards.

 

[Ladekabel]

santarodinbeatiful.gif

Can't wait for the release.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

With New Super Mario Bros. WiiU, ZombieU, Bayonetta 2, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country Returns Tropical Freeze, the next Fatal Frame, The Wonderful 101 and X the WiiU is a great buy for those games alone.

Smash Bros. am cry

 

[Pyramid head]

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Nintendoes what Segadon't!

Bayonetta 2 |OT| Hope you have a Wii U!

Nice. Or maybe Sega don't what Nintendo?

 

[Prophet Steve]

Ooooh yes, loving the reviews. With this and the demo I feel like I should buy it at launch now.

Hah at the Polygon review though. I am not sure how the game can be considered sexist.