Support NeoGAF

[ResurrectedContrarian]

As for this season overall... I've found it to be the least compelling set of episodes of the entire series so far, which is a bit disappointing. It's still great television, but I don't understand why the writers found the plotline of scamming Howard to be worthy of so many hours in this final season. Where it led was dramatic and worthy, sure, but I found most of the antics leading there (particularly things like Jimmy invading that golf club, the fake out with the car, his little ragtag filming crew, etc) to be things we've already seen in other seasons, with nothing new added to them here and hours of wasted screen time at this point when things should be developing for the conclusion.

I don't mind the Lalo plotline building slowly with tension, but we could have gotten something more engrossing from the hours of Saul and Kim, but instead if feels far less interesting and original than prior season conflicts (for example, Saul's conflicts with Michael McKean, which carried more force due to the acting).

 

[Revoh]

Damn what a ride of an episode

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Howard is a more defensible & honorable character as a whole than either Saul or Kim. Particularly Kim has just become... kind of a horrible human, over time. I don't think that's against the self-interpretation of the show, either. She brings out the worst qualities in Saul and he likewise in her, and who she gradually became is someone driven by such ugly malevolence that I think her inevitable downfall in these upcoming episodes--whatever does happen to her--will be entirely deserved / self-inflicted.

Yeah, this show has really come to mirror Breaking Bad where, at the beginning, the most unlikable characters end up being sort of vindicated and victimized by the down and out scrappy characters you're supposed to normally root for...but in both shows, the "under dogs" end up being the biggest scumbags getting everyone around them killed. All in all, Howard is imperfect and comes off like a douche, but he wasn't wrong. And he was smart enough to lay it all out in the final scene...Jimmy's broken and can't help it, but Kim is just the worst because she's getting off on it. He made all the right moves throughout the show and played by the rules and still got fucked by Jimmy's antics. RIP.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Jimmy's broken and can't help it, but Kim is just the worst because she's getting off on it.

Well-put.

And to be so blunt, it has a lot to do with her being a woman, or at least being someone who was brought into the game by her husband rather than by her own momentum. She's not built to handle it.

In a prior season, I recall both Lalo and Mike being a bit taken back by learning that Jimmy had involved Kim in his business dealings. You don't involve your wife or more vulnerable family members if you're in this kind of work, or at least that's the clear ethic that the others follow. It takes a certain kind of personality and background to arrive at these dangerous entanglements, but someone like your wife will instead get involved for the wrong reasons if you bring her into the equation through yourself. That can't possibly go well; it'll be too much like a game for them, or a like playing criminal, without having lived within the consequences for long enough to know what they're doing.

So I'll slightly revise my earlier statement: whatever happens to Kim will be largely deserved, but it will also be Saul who is to blame for it.

 

[Sub_Level]

I'm interested in Howard's widow's reaction to all this. She had to know he was miserable, and will probably buy the suicide coverup story....but what if she doesn't? Its super late in the show but I think its possible she can play a larger role in an episode or two besides the obligatory funeral scene.

She can't collect life insurance for a suicide right? So maybe her greed if nothing else will prompt her to look more into it lol

 

[DragoonKain]

A couple things:

Did anyone pick up on the foreshadow of

Spoiler

Howard twisting the can and then the twisting of the silencer later?

Also, a parallel between this show and breaking bad. Saul and Kim are partners. Kim is addicted to the thrill of their product(scamming). In Breaking Bad Walt and Jesse were partners and Jesse was addicted to their product(meth).

 

[Sybrix]

Well-put.

And to be so blunt, it has a lot to do with her being a woman, or at least being someone who was brought into the game by her husband rather than by her own momentum. She's not built to handle it.

In a prior season, I recall both Lalo and Mike being a bit taken back by learning that Jimmy had involved Kim in his business dealings. You don't involve your wife or more vulnerable family members if you're in this kind of work, or at least that's the clear ethic that the others follow. It takes a certain kind of personality and background to arrive at these dangerous entanglements, but someone like your wife will instead get involved for the wrong reasons if you bring her into the equation through yourself. That can't possibly go well; it'll be too much like a game for them, or a like playing criminal, without having lived within the consequences for long enough to know what they're doing.

So I'll slightly revise my earlier statement: whatever happens to Kim will be largely deserved, but it will also be Saul who is to blame for it.

At the end of Breaking Bad, didn’t Saul give Kim’s card to someone for legal services? Implying that at the end of Breaking Bad she is still practicing law and survived the events of BCS?

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

At the end of Breaking Bad, didn’t Saul give Kim’s card to someone for legal services? Implying that at the end of Breaking Bad she is still practicing law and survived the events of BCS?

If so I’ve never heard of it... and can’t find any confirmation.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

At the end of Breaking Bad, didn’t Saul give Kim’s card to someone for legal services? Implying that at the end of Breaking Bad she is still practicing law and survived the events of BCS?

The only card I remember was the vacuum repair shop, which showed up last week when they were looking through the vet’s book

 

[clarky]

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

Great episode, real shame this has to come to an end.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Howard

 

[Deleted member 1159]

A couple things:

Did anyone pick up on the foreshadow of

Spoiler

Howard twisting the can and then the twisting of the silencer later?

Also, a parallel between this show and breaking bad. Saul and Kim are partners. Kim is addicted to the thrill of their product(scamming). In Breaking Bad Walt and Jesse were partners and Jesse was addicted to their product(meth).

Oh nice catch on the can twisting

 

[nightmare-slain]

i thought he was going to kill himself but when he gave his little speech to Jimmy/Kim and when Lalo showed up i knew what was gonna happen. well at the same time i was thinking maybe it's not going to go that way and he'll shoot Kim. thank goodness he didn't. i didn't want Howard to die but it's been so obvious for the last few episodes that his time was up.

now we just need to wait and see what happens to Kim. i hope she gets out somehow but then we need to see what Lalo is going to do to them

 

[Sub_Level]

Cliff is gonna ask Kim why she didn't show up at the function.

 

[Sybrix]

If so I’ve never heard of it... and can’t find any confirmation.

The only card I remember was the vacuum repair shop, which showed up last week when they were looking through the vet’s book

Ah i misremembered, it was in Better Call Saul Season 4 Episode 5 "Quite a Ride," the flashforward scene

'Tell them Jimmy sent you' - Could this be Kim's card?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

crazy details...

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Ah i misremembered, it was in Better Call Saul Season 4 Episode 5 "Quite a Ride," the flashforward scene

'Tell them Jimmy sent you' - Could this be Kim's card?

I don't think that would make sense, because this woman was a receptionist for both Jimmy and Kim for a while. If handing Kim's card to her, he wouldn't say "tell them Jimmy sent you" as if she doesn't already know Kim personally.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Just a matter of time until there is a Jesse show?

 

[dr_octagon]

Just a matter of time until there is a Jesse show?

A Lyle spin off show is required.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

A Lyle spin off show is required.

I forgot about that scene. Intense.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Just a matter of time until there is a Jesse show?

I doubt it, since it would need to follow after El Camino and it seems like they're done with his story now.

Relatedly, I always anticipated the final season of BCS shifting forward to the end of Saul's life (to the time of the black and white intro sequences), perhaps having just the first half of the season lead to an ending with Lalo / Kim and the second half showing what happens to the Cinnabon-saul in his seclusion. Still a bit disappointed they didn't give us that and go to the end of his story.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I doubt it, since it would need to follow after El Camino and it seems like they're done with his story now.

Relatedly, I always anticipated the final season of BCS shifting forward to the end of Saul's life (to the time of the black and white intro sequences), perhaps having just the first half of the season lead to an ending with Lalo / Kim and the second half showing what happens to the Cinnabon-saul in his seclusion. Still a bit disappointed they didn't give us that and go to the end of his story.

I still think there’s a chance they do that, they’ve got like 6+ hours of show to work through

 

[Badlucktroll]

I doubt it, since it would need to follow after El Camino and it seems like they're done with his story now.

Relatedly, I always anticipated the final season of BCS shifting forward to the end of Saul's life (to the time of the black and white intro sequences), perhaps having just the first half of the season lead to an ending with Lalo / Kim and the second half showing what happens to the Cinnabon-saul in his seclusion. Still a bit disappointed they didn't give us that and go to the end of his story.

I bet

Spoiler

Jimmy and Kim kill Lalo

Spoiler

and,

Spoiler

kim leaves because of it, and they are reunited with saul as gene takovic, post breaking bad

 

[Sub_Level]

I bet

Spoiler

Jimmy and Kim kill Lalo

Spoiler

and,

Spoiler

kim leaves because of it, and they are reunited with saul as gene takovic, post breaking bad

Jimmy thinks Lalo is alive by the time Breaking Bad happens. He definitely is not the one to kill him, at least not during the pre-BB time.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Jimmy thinks Lalo is alive by the time Breaking Bad happens. He definitely is not the one to kill him, at least not during the pre-BB time.

I think that kim or lalo

Spoiler

sent the cabbie dude to track down jimmy

 

[bitbydeath]

Just caught up, was hoping the pace would have picked up this season as it doesn’t feel like a final season. Jimmy doesn’t even act like Saul yet, I guess whatever happens to Kim is what changes him but I was hoping we’d see more of it, along with what happens after BB.

It’s no Ozark’s but it’s still pretty good.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Just caught up, was hoping the pace would have picked up this season as it doesn’t feel like a final season. Jimmy doesn’t even act like Saul yet, I guess whatever happens to Kim is what changes him but I was hoping we’d see more of it, along with what happens after BB.

Agreed--I usually love and defend the distinctive slow pace of this show, but for the final season it doesn't feel right to be watching hours of little antics like their long-con scam of Howard. We've seen all that before.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Well, the end of Lalo was telegraphed very blatantly earlier so no surprises there. I think the way they transitioned out of Lalo being with Jimmy and Kim with the distraction was a good move, didn’t know where else they could go from there. Overall a really solid episode, I appreciated that they lingered a bit on Howard’s body and just kind of the distasteful mechanics of disposing of someone. Much better than just moving on from the character like he never existed.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Better call saul shows a side character can lead an entire show.

 

[DragoonKain]

Lalo

Spoiler

went out very similarly to the way Gus did. Got fixated on an arch enemy, and allowed that hatred to make him do something stupid. Invading some else's territory is a very risky play, and it cost him. He was impatient. Much like Gus' hatred for Hector got him killed.

It feels like now though that

Spoiler

there is going to a time jump at some point to get caught up to present day. There has to be. They solved the plot's major emphasis to this point and still have plenty of episodes left with not many loose ends to tie up.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Jimmy thinks Lalo is alive by the time Breaking Bad happens. He definitely is not the one to kill him, at least not during the pre-BB time.

ahem

 

[clarky]

What an episode.

Where does it go from here? Well breaking bad obviously but still loads of time yet. I'll miss this show.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

I'm wondering what's Vince Gillian next show after this? Is it going be set in the Breaking Bad Universe?

 

[Sybrix]

Was so sad seeing Howard like that, episode was amazing.

Can't wait to see what the rest of the show brings us.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

That was a banger of an opening, although technically it's mid-season. Curious how they'll squeeze out the rest of the show. I assume Kim's exit will be the last big surprise, I have a feeling she's gonna kill herself due to everything's that happened with Howard.

 

[Sybrix]

Is this Lalo?

 

[protonion]

Lalo made no sense in this episode.

What was the plan with an army coming any minute? Uncharacteristic stupidity. Didn't like it.

Howard didn't deserve this. I hope Kim has a gruesome death. Jimmy also.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

There's like 3 episodes left right?

I'm curious what the story will be going forward. Like, who is the enemy now?

 

[Fuz]

Spoiler

And now, for todays sponsor... NordVPN! Do you wanna know how I found out this underground lab? Obviously there were weak spots in chicken man's security. With NordVPN, you can be guaranteed that all your communication will be secured with end to end encryption!

 

[newtypepilot]

Is this Lalo?

That's Tuco in the 2nd pic. and the belt is different.

Spoiler

There's a lot of similarities between the showdown in the laundromat and the scene and the final scene between Hector and Gus. Both involve Gus take unnecessary risks. Both have Gus make some kind of speech before the climax. And the Salamancas meet their end. Obviously, the big difference is that Gus won his fight against Lalo.

With the Lalo arc wrapped, my guess is that next 3 episodes will focus on Jimmy and Kim leading up to the start of BB, then one episode that takes place during BB, with the finale taking place during the Gene timeline. I wonder if the finale will start of black and white, and then slowly transitioning to colour.

 

[Droxcy]

Episode was fantastic after this Kim is done for sure and gonna run away while she still can.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

I'm wondering what's Vince Gillian next show after this? Is it going be set in the Breaking Bad Universe?

We can only hope that

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Spoiler: hmmm

Gus vs Lalo was a disappointing thing to watch, for some reason. On Breaking Bad, I considered Gus easily the greatest TV villain ever, but in this series he isn't very compelling. Lalo, on the other hand, is great in every scene--so I wanted him to win in that little duel but knew of course that he wouldn't. Still, Gus physically outmaneuvering him in the end felt a bit unrealistic. Lalo is the hands-on guy, Gus isn't exactly equipped for these situations by himself.

Also, I found Lalo's willingness to send Kim a bit odd. Not that it mattered in terms of the actual shooting since that was never his plan for it to succeed, but because clearly Jimmy was sending her away and somewhat hoping she would just run and escape and let him die. So that alone proves that it's Jimmy who would do anything to save Kim, which is exactly why he should have been forced to go while Kim was at the end of a gun. There's zero chance Jimmy would just run, but based on the scene and what he knows of Kim, there is plenty of reason to suspect Kim might bail out. Seems irrational to send her.

 

[nightmare-slain]

We can only hope that

i'd love another Breaking Bad show but where can we go from here? If it were to happen I think it'd need to be a significant time jump. No characters from BB/BCS. All new characters but in the same universe.

That said, whatever is next I'll be watching for sure. BB related or not.

 

[thefool]

That was not good. Way too contrived.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

i'd love another Breaking Bad show but where can we go from here? If it were to happen I think it'd need to be a significant time jump. No characters from BB/BCS. All new characters but in the same universe.

That said, whatever is next I'll be watching for sure. BB related or not.

Of course, new characters and maybe a new city.
Maybe Walter Junior i dont know lol

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Lalo made no sense in this episode.

What was the plan with an army coming any minute? Uncharacteristic stupidity. Didn't like it.

I think that was the only thing I really didn't like about the show up until this point, at least that I can remember. It was very cliche to have him there, talking and talking with the person he was suppose to kill, for no apparent reason, while he only got approximately 13 minutes for the whole enemy gang reach him according to his own calcs. The way he used to do things, he should have just waved his hands to Fring with the camera on to record his killing, shoot, and leave. Lalo's whole plan actually felt quite lame.

But other than that, it has all been pretty damn awesome!

And I felt really bad for Howard too.

 

[WoodyStare]

What a heartbreaking episode. The transition to Saul Goodman at the very end during the breakup scene happened so quickly but made it much more devastating. Already missing Jimmy.

Hopefully this isn’t the last we see of Kim. I feel like she’ll be back briefly in one of the later episodes. That scene at HHM with Howard’s wife was so fucked up though.

 

[John Marston]

What they did to Howard is one of the most calculated Evil things I've seen on TV.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that wine interlude with Fring at the bar; was it Gustavo giving up on happiness or a life that could have been?

 

[Deleted member 1159]

What a heartbreaking episode. The transition to Saul Goodman at the very end during the breakup scene happened so quickly but made it much more devastating. Already missing Jimmy.

Hopefully this isn’t the last we see of Kim. I feel like she’ll be back briefly in one of the later episodes. That scene at HHM with Howard’s wife was so fucked up though.

Yeah...very twisting the knife. Part of me hopes we find out what happens with Kim, but part of me is happy to let it stay ambiguous with her starting a new life somewhere before things got to the point of needing the vacuum repairman.

Anyway, another great episode. Glad we finally got to the time skip with 4 episodes to go.