Support NeoGAF

[Hudo]

Katawa Shoujo still takes the top spot though

You are absolutely, irrefutably 100% correct.

 

[adamsapple]

edit: wrong thread lol

 

[mckmas8808]

You should check gaming outside forums.

Literally sales data says you are wrong.

 

[thefool]

Every time I pass around a ps5, i go look around games that might me convince to buy and find nothing that makes me change my mind.

 

[feynoob]

Literally sales data says you are wrong.

Sales copies is a meaningless against the mighty mtx.

It also doesn't tell you a Jack shit about gameplay numbers.

I bought a lot of games and haven't played them that much.

Bought new world and I have more gameplay time than a lot of my SP games.

Live service games tend to be played alot.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sales copies is a meaningless against the mighty mtx.

It also doesn't tell you a Jack shit about gameplay numbers.

I bought a lot of games and haven't played them that much.

Bought new world and I have more gameplay time than a lot of my SP games.

Live service games tend to be played alot.

Who cares about the bolded when you spent money to buy the game. I bought Stellar Blade on day one, still haven't played it. I'm sure the devs and Sony are happy I bought the game though. That's hard cash! Gameplay numbers doesn't make my $70 disappear from their pockets.

 

[The Stig]

well yeah, who needs 2 ps5s?

 

[feynoob]

Who cares about the bolded when you spent money to buy the game. I bought Stellar Blade on day one, still haven't played it. I'm sure the devs and Sony are happy I bought the game though. That's hard cash! Gameplay numbers doesn't make my $70 disappear from their pockets.

It changes how publisher view gaming.
Your 70$ will be short to them, when alot of people spend more than that on a single game.

 

[mckmas8808]

It changes how publisher view gaming.
Your 70$ will be short to them, when alot of people spend more than that on a single game.

If my $70 is short to them, then how about make more than one game every 8 years. Problem solved! Or make interesting DLC for that one game. CD Project RED has managed to do it twice with The Witcher 3 and CyberPunk 2077.

 

[feynoob]

If my $70 is short to them, then how about make more than one game every 8 years. Problem solved! Or make interesting DLC for that one game. CD Project RED has managed to do it twice with The Witcher 3 and CyberPunk 2077.

Because live service games make more money.

CDPR would make alot of money with witcher mmo game. More than all witcher series combined.

 

[mckmas8808]

Because live service games make more money.

CDPR would make alot of money with witcher mmo game. More than all witcher series combined.

But they aren't doing that. So that should tell you something. Not every game has to be a MMO or Live Service game. That'll ruin the industry.

 

[feynoob]

But they aren't doing that. So that should tell you something. Not every game has to be a MMO or Live Service game. That'll ruin the industry.

The industry is destroying itself with those inflated budget for their games.

 

[mckmas8808]

The industry is destroying itself with those inflated budget for their games.

Sony isn't. And that's who we are talking about. Profit margins for Playstation Jan-March of 2024 hit 10%, with a record high number of money made on PC and their highest FY 4th quarter hardware sales in PS history.

 

[feynoob]

Sony isn't. And that's who we are talking about. Profit margins for Playstation Jan-March of 2024 hit 10%, with a record high number of money made on PC and their highest FY 4th quarter hardware sales in PS history.

They aren't doing that much live service games.

A SP game has 1 cycle of revenue and additions of dlcs.

A live service has multiple years of revenue and can earn more money from a single user.

A SP game is long forgotten, while A live service game retains some of their players.

Hell divers 2 sold 12m.

Sony releases a 10$ season pass, That will net them 2-4m season pass a month or 24m-48m season pass a year.

Sony releases a 10$-20$ armor pack every month. With a sale of 10m-20m a year, that is extra revenue.

The lowest revenue they can get that year is around $340m. They maintain that for 3 years, and they hit 1b revenue. Remember that this is lowest estimate with minimal mtx push.

Now do that for 2 more games, and you are making more than gow and last of us revenue.

All because people will play live service games alot and would spend more money over the time.

 

[mckmas8808]

They aren't doing that much live service games.

A SP game has 1 cycle of revenue and additions of dlcs.

A live service has multiple years of revenue and can earn more money from a single user.

A SP game is long forgotten, while A live service game retains some of their players.

Hell divers 2 sold 12m.

Sony releases a 10$ season pass, That will net them 2-4m season pass a month or 24m-48m season pass a year.

Sony releases a 10$-20$ armor pack every month. With a sale of 10m-20m a year, that is extra revenue.

The lowest revenue they can get that year is around $340m. They maintain that for 3 years, and they hit 1b revenue. Remember that this is lowest estimate with minimal mtx push.

Now do that for 2 more games, and you are making more than gow and last of us revenue.

All because people will play live service games alot and would spend more money over the time.

You're assuming too much. The devs have already said they aren't attacking MTX that way and it'll be much more fair to the gamers. But I can see $100m-$150m a year on MTX for HD2. But that doesn't seperate how Sony also has SP games that can generate $500m to $1Billion over a 3 year time span. They've already done it with their current SP games.

So why not both? Why does everything have to be binary with you guys these days? Clearly, doing both is the answer.

GAAS GAMES:

- Helldivers 2
- Marathon
- Concord
- MLB: The Show
- GT7
- Horizon: Online



These 6 Live Services games are either already a hit or could be hits. That's good. But it doesn't mean Death Stranding 2, TLOU3, Wolverine, etc aren't very very important.

 

[feynoob]

You're assuming too much. The devs have already said they aren't attacking MTX that way and it'll be much more fair to the gamers. But I can see $100m-$150m a year on MTX for HD2. But that doesn't seperate how Sony also has SP games that can generate $500m to $1Billion over a 3 year time span. They've already done it with their current SP games.

So why not both? Why does everything have to be binary with you guys these days? Clearly, doing both is the answer.

GAAS GAMES:

- Helldivers 2
- Marathon
- Concord
- MLB: The Show
- GT7
- Horizon: Online



These 6 Live Services games are either already a hit or could be hits. That's good. But it doesn't mean Death Stranding 2, TLOU3, Wolverine, etc aren't very very important.

Let's do the math.

Hell divers 2 sold 12m at 40$. That is $480m in sales.

Now let's estimate these games to do 5m at 40$ and $150m season pass plus mtx. it's a year for 2 years. That is 500m for 2 years total. The budget for these games is usually around 60m to 100m.

Gow ragnorak was around 200m, while spiderman at 300m.

700m-200m=500m for Ragnarok and 400m for Spiderman 3.

500m-100m= 400m for any of the live service games.


This is the bare minimum for these live service games. If Sony invests them like they do for they 1st party, they can do more profit than their SP do. And mainly because you can still monetize those games beyond the first 2 years.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Everything from console to games (mainly from Sony's side) has gotten way too expensive for many. Console gaming is becoming a very expensive way of playing videogames. People are just gaming elsewhere, on their phone, tablet or PC and are more playing F2P games. Both MS and Sony have been too greedy since Covid and are killing the home console industry with their strategies.

 

[mckmas8808]

Let's do the math.

Hell divers 2 sold 12m at 40$. That is $480m in sales.

Now let's estimate these games to do 5m at 40$ and $150m season pass plus mtx. it's a year for 2 years. That is 500m for 2 years total. The budget for these games is usually around 60m to 100m.

Gow ragnorak was around 200m, while spiderman at 300m.

700m-200m=500m for Ragnarok and 400m for Spiderman 3.

500m-100m= 400m for any of the live service games.


This is the bare minimum for these live service games. If Sony invests them like they do for they 1st party, they can do more profit than their SP do. And mainly because you can still monetize those games beyond the first 2 years.

You're assuming every Live Service games is a hit like HD2. Which is weird, because Sony knows for a fact they can make more than one Spiderman 2 or GOW:R SP game and be a success. Live service is different.

But if you have $500m in profit for GOW: R, $400m in profit for Spiderman 2, and $400m in profit for Helldivers 2................that's called success! No need to only do live service games.

Everything from console to games (mainly from Sony's side) has gotten way too expensive for many. Console gaming is becoming a very expensive way of playing videogames. People are just gaming elsewhere, on their phone, tablet or PC and are more playing F2P games. Both MS and Sony have been too greedy since Covid and are killing the home console industry with their strategies.

The PS5 is Sony highest grossing money driver in Playstation history and is tied for the fast-selling Playstation in it's almost 30 year history. How is it killing the console industry if the demand and success is all there?

 

[feynoob]

You're assuming every Live Service games is a hit like HD2. Which is weird, because Sony knows for a fact they can make more than one Spiderman 2 or GOW:R SP game and be a success. Live service is different.

But if you have $500m in profit for GOW: R, $400m in profit for Spiderman 2, and $400m in profit for Helldivers 2................that's called success! No need to only do live service games.

The reason why I am assuming that is the mtx part. You can make a lot of money from it, even if the game is not a hit.

If a SP flops, you can't make money back that much. But a live service games, just add too much mtx and squeeze as much money as you can. You will get your returns back. Even 1 year is enough to get some of that money back.

 

[Trogdor1123]

To this day it still blows my mind that the price has gone up, not down. It’s been 4 years.

Have the margins ever been leaked on the hardware? Are they making more now, same, less?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

To this day it still blows my mind that the price has gone up, not down. It’s been 4 years.

Have the margins ever been leaked on the hardware? Are they making more now, same, less?

They're losing money

 

[Trogdor1123]

They're losing money

That doesn’t bode well for the industry as acwhole

 

[feynoob]

Topher

 

[Topher]

Topher

Someone will have to explain to me what this "crash" is supposed to look like because I see companies making profits while whining about margins.

 

[feynoob]

Someone will have to explain to me what this "crash" is supposed to look like because I see companies making profits while whining about margins.

 

[Topher]

lol....you'll have to summarize that one for me. I ain't watching a 40 minute video of asmon watching the video I just watched my man.

 

[feynoob]

lol....you'll have to summarize that one for me. I ain't watching a 40 minute video of asmon watching the video I just watched my man.

I am currently watching it, while eating food.
Its nice to pass time.

 

[Woopah]

That doesn’t bode well for the industry as acwhole

Why not? Most of the industry doesn't have hardware margins.

 

[Dorfdad]

Despite what the "experts" say, this economy is absolutely terrible for most people, and a $500+ console is a lot more difficult to justify when your food costs are 30-50% more than they were two years ago. Especially if the games you play are still coming out on the console you already own

Games also went up in cost. 69.99 for most of the games unfinished and unoptimized isn’t helping. Many are switching to pc where games are cheaper and better frames.

I’m not even sure Xbox can survive next gen as a console. It’s going to have to be a PC branded as Xbox. Sony will have a hard time justifying a ps6 that does 8k/60 when the switch 2 will be doing 1440p/4k games at half the cost and portable.

Pc will grow but the ports will be worse until development teams optimize better.

That and the open seas / emulation and old games make pc a much more attractive platform.