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[numble]

Juries are terrible about this.

Remember, for international folks, this was a jury trial.

Juries don't want to convict police officers.

What jury?

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Are you for fucking real right now?

What part of America do you live in where people driving under the influence are gunned down by law enforcement?

Don't worry; I'll wait.

You can't be fucking serious. Where do these people come from where, "well they were doing something wrong" = okay to remove their lives from the planet?

Whatever you believe about what ultimately happened here, you do yourself no favors by comparing this:

Russell led numerous police officers on a 22-mile chase -- sometimes at speeds above 100 mph -- before ramming a police car in a middle school parking lot in East Cleveland, police said.

To your standard dwi.

 

[Derwind]

could you prove without any question that the shots by this one officer is whats responsible for the death of the victims and not the other 80 shots

I'm more concerned about the question of how one can prove beyond a reasonable that shooting 40 something times at people point blank in the face in an boxed in area whilst bearing down from the top of the hood of a car.... had done them in. I mean it certainly didn't help the cause of keeping them alive.

 

[entremet]

it was a bench trial, sis

What jury?

Derp.

That actually explains a lot.

 

[Officerrob]

To be honest the verdict isn't wrong when looking at it from a legal or moral standpoint.

Legally? They were justified for opening fire on 2 counts by law. (Grey area)

If instead of going on a 22mile chase with the cops then the situation could has potential for a different outcome. Not stopping and choosing to engage in this implies guilt. Who gets into a car chase with cops if they've done nothing wrong? That was mistake No1. As evidenced by the 100 cops deployed. (Count No1 justified)

As for ramming a patrol car/attempting to run over a cop that was mistake No2 (Count No2 justified)

This officer however had no justification for the 3rd count on the hood of a vehicle. To charge him for manslaughter for the 3rd count you would need to prove that those 15 bullets fired while on the vehicle were the bullets which actually killed the targets.

From a legal PoV this case was a non-starter.

He should however have been charged for excessive force instead for the 3rd count only, with an outcome of conviction imo.

It's a shame this post is being ignored as much as it is. From a purely legal standpoint, it was always going to be next to impossible to prove those shots and not all the others were the lethal ones. This case was charged all wrong

 

[Crosseyes]

Sad, but probably true.

Indeed. Probably necessary as well. Baltimore is moving forward and the case has a chance at least right now. Only justice or consequences dealt to police in this case now will be by the community theyve abused.

 

[Darknight]

I love how no one is responsible for the death of 2 innocent people.

Shit makes me sick.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's a shame this post is being ignored as much as it is. From a purely legal standpoint, it was always going to be next to impossible to prove those shots and not all the others were the lethal ones. This case was charged all wrong

It's being ignored because the more important issue is that this ostensibly correct application of law was used to excuse fairly blatant wrongdoing.

Something being legally correct doesn't make it right

 

[A Link to the Past]

So basically, the judge declared that as long as a copy is afraid, they can kill someone? That seems like a ridiculous burden, and suggests that police are above the law unless "I was afraid" can be applied across the board. The idea that he can't be proven to have killed them is ridiculous because it's inevitable that he would likely have killed them had the other police not. It's at least attempted manslaughter.

 

[theignoramus]

...

I'll be staying out of the country for the foreseeable future

Im absolutely terrified of at the mere thought of interaction with American police. And it's not like minorities can avoid them by minding their own and being the saint, over three quarters of these precincts have an official goddamn policy of shaking black men down. And it's not like complying with their demands means you wont get your ass kicked either. You might catch a beatdown or a bullet just reaching for the id in your wallet.
Nope, nope, nope, nope.

 

[2thepoint]

I know the entire US couldn't be this crazy, but from a European perspective at least, it really does frighten me to think of what it would be like to be black in certain parts.

When is enough going to be enough?

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

I keep hearing in this story how cops "thought they were being shot at" and opened fire. That cop said himself in an interview that he thought he was being shot at. Is this how shitty our cops are these days? They're like a fucking nervous children holding a gun and any noise sets them off shooting? And this is an acceptable explanation for one's actions as a professional?

 

[foxuzamaki]

A Cleveland police officer who stood on the hood of a car and fired his gun 49 times through the windshield at two unarmed passengers has been found not guilty on two counts of voluntary manslaughter.

Michael Brelo was also found not guilty of felonious assault, and discharged.

On Saturday morning, Cuyahoga County judge John P O’Donnell said prosecutors failed to prove without a reasonable doubt that bullets fired by officer Brelo were the cause of death of Malissa Williams and Timothy Russell, or that Brelo had no fear for his own life

Im confused.

 

[theignoramus]

Because that happens so often right? Oh please.

I wish I could have such a flippant attitude about instances of innocent black men getting shot while complying with an officers' demands. But I find it fucking terrifying. Of course it "doesnt happen often". But the fact of the matter is that its happened. More than once. And it's scary.

 

[Ke0]

Can someone who jumps on the bonnet of a car and shoots 15 shots inside really fear for his life?

I mean if I fear for my life the last thing going through my mind would be "pull a Die Hard move and leap on the bonnet and rain bullets upon them".

 

[MWS Natural]

Do absolutely everything they say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

 

[Yagharek]

I'm gonna be fair here even though I hate the decision and wish he was in jail.

They got shot over 130 times by a bunch of different cops and during the case they were never able to prove his actual bullets did the actual killing.

Charge all the cops involved then.

 

[Boke1879]

Charge all the cops involved then.

Exactly. He should be responsible for something. Why jump on the hood and shoot extra rounds? How is he absolved of anything in that.

So the judge admits that bullets killed these people. Just not the one from this officers gun. Ok. So charge them all.

But the judge was never going to do that. Once the judge said "constitutional right" and "reasonable" force. He was never going to charge anyone.

 

[sensui-tomo]

I love how no one is responsible for the death of 2 innocent people.

Shit makes me sick.

Innocent = driving into police vehicles/ and officers on foot(if true) and going on a 20 minute chase from the cops... alright, Note, this doesnt excuse the actions of the police who fucked up.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

So basically, the judge declared that as long as a copy is afraid, they can kill someone? That seems like a ridiculous burden, and suggests that police are above the law unless "I was afraid" can be applied across the board. The idea that he can't be proven to have killed them is ridiculous because it's inevitable that he would likely have killed them had the other police not. It's at least attempted manslaughter.

Are there any independent reports on the cops' allegation that the driver rammed a police car and was driving toward a cop on foot? Because if there is, then the first 122 shots aren't really "a cop is afraid," and more "a cop has reasonable justification to use force to stop a threat. Unless, of course, you're talking about just the 15 shots the John McClain-wannabe fired, those are obviously insane and the only reason I can see him getting off for that stunt was because the prosecution over-reached on the charges they filed.

 

[Indicate]

Cleveland protests
WKYC channel 3 http://www.wkyc.com/videos/homepage/2015/04/21/3311833/

 

[numble]

Innocent = driving into police vehicles/ and officers on foot(if true) and going on a 20 minute chase from the cops... alright, Note, this doesnt excuse the actions of the police who fucked up.

Are you going the Christian route of everyone being a sinner and not innocent? Obviously he means not doing anything deserving of their fate. Unless you mean a 20 minute chase means they are guilty of this? Do we have definitive evidence that they drove into vehicles and officers, or is it the policemen's word (who apparently refused to testify and used the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination)?

 

[Maximus.]

My biggest question is why were they shot at 130 times in the first place? The car was seemingly stopped right? They were unarmed? So why did every officer decide to fire?

Easier than pulling them out and arresting them it seems in this instance. This story is just absurd and beyond necessary force. Standing on the hood of the car and shooting in?? The fuck.

 

[Kettch]

So a number of people are justifying this by pointing out that the driver led police on a chase and allegedly attempted to run over an officer, but what do you guys think about the passenger? Did she deserve to be murdered as well?

 

[TAJ]

If one cop commits a crime then all other officers present should be guilty by association. It's only fair.

 

[M1ch04c4n0]

Note to self: Never, ever, set foot in Cleveland...

Even better, never, ever leave Washington State again, unless leaving to MEXICO...

Even better, move as soon as possible to France...

Yeah, that will do...

 

[ghstwrld]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

 

[numble]

Can someone point me to credible evidence or testimony regarding the claims that they rammed police cars and officers on foot, this source says the police officers' testimony at trial was the following:

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2015/05/why_the_judge_found_cleveland.html

Several police officers testified throughout the trial that they believed Russell and Williams were armed, pointed a gun at police, fired off shots, led police on a 22-minute chase, and evaded arrest. All of the police officers said they perceived Russell and Williams as a threat, were in fear for their lives, and retaliated in kind.

No gun was ever found in Russell's car, and the sound officers thought was gunshots coming from the car turned out to be the clunker backfiring.

But none of that matters, O'Donnell said, because 20/20 hindsight cannot be used in assessing an officer's use-of-force.

"His initial decision to use force was constitutionally reasonable," O'Donnell said. "He was reasonable despite knowing now that there was no gun in the car and he was mistaken about the origin of the gunshots. It is Brelo's perception of a threat that matters."

I guess O'Donnell's decision would cover that, and I'll look for it and give it a read.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

 

[Mammoth Jones]

America to Black People:"You ain't worth shit"

I'd feel so much better if we'd just state this openly and stop bullshitting.

 

[sensui-tomo]

Are you going the Christian route of everyone being a sinner and not innocent? Obviously he means not doing anything deserving of their fate. Unless you mean a 20 minute chase means they are guilty of this? Do we have definitive evidence that they drove into vehicles and officers, or is it the policemen's word (who apparently refused to testify and used the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination)?

No, i'm going the route of "Why the fuck were you driving away from the police, never stopping in that 20 minute span if you did nothing wrong, got nothing to hide" You cant blame me to think thats a tad suspect. The whole Ramming into a police car / driving into a police officer is something i'd love to be cleared up since that would make it worse for me to sympathize with the victims. Again, the police fucked up badly and all of them pleading the fifth doesnt make their case better and the victims probably didnt need to get shot (if they never attempted to hurt anyone that is). The person who shot all those bullets after they were probably dead/bleeding out should be fired and never be able to work as a police officer ever again.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

The only logical conclusion


Watch them win

 

[Loakum]

"As the Days Goes By"....same as it ever was....same as it ever was.....same as it ever was....same as it ever was...same as it ever was....same as it ever was....same as it ever was....same as it ever was....same as it ever was...

 

[Trojita]

Fucking Bullshit.

You can't tell if his 49 bullets killed them? It's 49 fucking bullets.

 

[Officerrob]

Exactly. He should be responsible for something. Why jump on the hood and shoot extra rounds? How is he absolved of anything in that.

So the judge admits that bullets killed these people. Just not the one from this officers gun. Ok. So charge them all.

But the judge was never going to do that. Once the judge said "constitutional right" and "reasonable" force. He was never going to charge anyone.

The judge doesn't actually charge anyone, that's not his/her job

 

[KingK]

This sounds like the prosecution didn't even want to convict anybody of anything. The fact that nobody is being held responsible or punished for what happened is disgusting.

If they couldn't prove that cop killed him, why not charge the group of them with something? At the very fucking least there has to be a charge they could throw at him for recklessly discharging a firearm into a corpse when he jumped on the hood. Unless they would then say "well, we can't prove they were dead when he fired either, so technically we can't convict him of that."

 

[numble]

This sounds like the prosecution didn't even want to convict anybody of anything. The fact that nobody is being held responsible or punished for what happened is disgusting.

If they couldn't prove that cop killed him, why not charge the group of them with something? At the very fucking least there has to be a charge they could throw at him for recklessly discharging a firearm into a corpse when he jumped on the hood. Unless they would then say "well, we can't prove they were dead when he fired either, so technically we can't convict him of that."

Yes, the prosecution produced a witness that said all the shots prior to the shots from the hood were justified.

 

[Saint Gregory]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

Did the black officers get two weeks paid leave instead of just one?

 

[NullPointer]

If those bullets were the one to kill then it would have been unnecessary manslaughter due to the fact that he did this last.

It really shouldn't matter.

So if this guy stood on the hood and plugged those two full of bullets but without killing them everything would be hunky dory? It sure seems like a super-aggressive intent to kill regardless of end result, and this exacting need to find the killer bullet makes zero sense in context.

 

[Marauder Shields]

Started because of one. Police tried to stop the car, a chase ensued. When police cornered the car, they tried to run over a cop. Police fired. Then one cop decides to run to the hood of the car and fire and extra 15 shots.

Da fuq? Never heard about that part till now.

 

[Trojita]

Da fuq? Never heard about that part till now.

Chain of events according to news report.

The chase began with a failed traffic stop near a homeless shelter at the edge of downtown Cleveland. Russell sped off and drove past Cleveland police headquarters, where, investigators concluded, his car backfired. Officers and other witnesses standing outside were certain they'd heard gunshots. An officer's radio call to dispatch about shots having been fired prompted more than 104 officers in more than 60 police cars to pursue Russell and Williams at high speeds that reached at least 100 mph.

The chase ended in the parking lot of a middle school in East Cleveland where Russell and Williams found themselves trapped. Russell turned the car around and tried to flee down the school's narrow driveway but was blocked by cruisers. An officer who said he feared for his life when the Malibu drove toward him fired the first shots, prompting other officers, including Brelo, to fire. Brelo and his partner fired a total of 15 rounds through their own car's windshield before Brelo got out, climbed on top of another cruiser, and resumed firing.

Prosecutors contend that Brelo then jumped on the hood of the Malibu and fired the final 15 shots down into the windshield.

Brelo told investigators two weeks after the shooting that he didn't remember jumping on the hood. A rookie officer told the same investigators that Brelo talked about it afterward.

Investigators eventually concluded that neither Russell nor Williams had a gun.

The shooting helped prompt a months-long U.S. Department of Justice investigation that concluded in December that Cleveland police had engaged in a pattern and practice of using excessive force and violating people's civil rights. The city of Cleveland and the justice department are negotiating a reform-minded agreement that will be overseen by an independent monitor.

The fucker is claiming he doesn't remember jumping onto the car.

The thing that gets me is that in most cases with criminals, you don't need to prove 1 person out of a group of 10 shooting automatic guns was the one of killed someone, everyone gets charged with coconspiring and at least manslaughter. Also how could they not tell which shots where coming from a position at an upward angle? Are they trying to somehow claim he missed all of those shots, that they were already dead and he was using excessive force, or that somehow the bullets he shot didn't kill them, someone else did. He should still be applicable for sentence of assault at that point irregardless.

Also about people talking about cocaine to vilify the victims, was it just in their system from earlier use or was it active? It's the most vague explanation to say it was in their system. It can be claimed someone has Marijuana in their system 30ish days after smoking.

Also are we going to villify every CEO, Wall Streeter, Actor, Actresses, Musicians, Comedians, etc. for cocaine use? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Jarate]

It really shouldn't matter.

So if this guy stood on the hood and plugged those two full of bullets but without killing them everything would be hunky dory? It sure seems like a super-aggressive intent to kill regardless of end result, and this exacting need to find the killer bullet makes zero sense in context.

If they are charging him with "manslaughter" then he has to have killed the person in question

I do agree that it's really stupid, and it most likely will get fixed, but the judge is just going by the law.

If this goes to a civil court though, there's no way that the cops would win.

Chain of events according to news report.



The fucker is claiming he doesn't remember jumping onto the car.

The thing that gets me is that in most cases with criminals, you don't need to prove 1 person out of a group of 10 shooting automatic guns was the one of killed someone, everyone gets charged with coconspiring and at least manslaughter. Also how could they not tell which shots where coming from a position at an upward angle? Are they trying to somehow claim he missed all of those shots, that they were already dead and he was using excessive force, or that somehow the bullets he shot didn't kill them, someone else did. He should still be applicable for sentence of assault at that point irregardless.

Also about people talking about cocaine to vilify the victims, was it just in their system from earlier use or was it active? It's the most vague explanation to say it was in their system. It can be claimed someone has Marijuana in their system 30ish days after smoking.

Also are we going to villify every CEO, Wall Streeter, Actor, Actresses, Musicians, Comedians, etc. for cocaine use? You can't have it both ways.

The prosecutors didn't charge him with assault, they tried to get manslaughter charges and failed at doing so.

Cocaine does not stay in the system for 30 days like marijuana, it stays for 2-4 days, but in this case we don't know if they were high. They generally pled guilty when they initially ran away, and if they did try to hit them with their car, being under the influence of a stimulant could theoretically explain the behavior

 

[Trojita]

Also here is the picture of the front windshield of the victim's car.

A lot of those appear to be coming from an upper angle. The guy stood on the fucking hood of the car and shot them execution style.

 

[Zeuanimals]

I've often thought this about most judges. Or most positions of authority and responsibility.

"A competent person would have these important characteristics. Make sure the person hired has the complete opposite"

Some judges are hired by being elected by "us", depends on the state, I believe. Text air quotes because many judges run unopposed so they're pretty much guaranteed to get the job. Would be pretty damn embarrassing if they lost. I think there are requirements to getting your name on the ballot, so it's not like just anybody can get the job... But after reading about this case, I kind of doubt that.

 

[Trojita]

If they are charging him with "manslaughter" then he has to have killed the person in question

I do agree that it's really stupid, and it most likely will get fixed, but the judge is just going by the law.

If this goes to a civil court though, there's no way that the cops would win.



The prosecutors didn't charge him with assault, they tried to get manslaughter charges and failed at doing so.

Cocaine does not stay in the system for 30 days like marijuana, it stays for 2-4 days, but in this case we don't know if they were high. They generally pled guilty when they initially ran away, and if they did try to hit them with their car, being under the influence of a stimulant could theoretically explain the behavior

I wasn't conflating that it stay in the same time period as Marijuana, I was pointing out how ridiculous the term "Drug was in their system" is when using the term to justify actions. They didn't plead guilty to anything, that's blaming victims for something. Cocaine doesn't even last that long in use. Average 15-30 minutes with some up to an hour. I don't know if that can be used as a justified explanation on their reaction, it's not like it can be checked because they were dead before they could be seen. Your assumption would be that they hit that shit shortly before driving or while driving which is a guess at best.

 

[toneroni]

Yo seriously.... WTF is wrong w/ our country.

 

[TheOMan]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

Is this real life?

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I wouldn't be surprised if the car ramming and the running over the police man didn't happen until they were full of hot lead and no longer controlling the car.

 

[Rand6]

Listen up criminals, just shoot your victims with so many guns until no one can tell anymore who shot who and walk away scot free.

lol.
This can maybe work with a good lawyer.

 

[Darksol]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...d-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

Nine of the 13 Cleveland cops who fired 137 shots at two apparently unarmed black civilians following a high-speed chase in 2012 have filed a federal lawsuit saying they are victims of racial discrimination.

Really.

Eight of the aggrieved cops are white. The ninth is Hispanic. They charge that the city of Cleveland has “a history of treating non-African American officers involved in the shootings of African Americans substantially harsher than African-American officers.”

The fact that there is a "history...in the shootings of African Americans" is depressing.

If these asshats win this I'll probably have a stroke.