Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
When it is docked, are you ... holding it on your hands?
Or, you know, is it ... docked?
Cyberpunk 2077 Switch 2 offscreen gameplay footage(clearest so far)
- Thread starter pulicat
- Start date
Or, you know, is it ... docked?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
So the Tegra chip becomes a desktop variant? Interesting.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
So you never have and never will compare a console and a PC game performance then because they different TDPs?It becomes a talking point because it's a portable console that can be docked to increase it performance. It is thus silly to go "it isn't a portable console". It must still operate within the constraints of one.
No, TDP is often a talking point when it comes to GPUs and you're blind if you think it isn't. Where do you think those memes come from?
So no, power consumption and TDP are most definitely talking points. They also were between PS5 and SX. On this very forum, console players were mocking PC GPUs (especially high-end ones) for their perceived power demands. Let's not be hypocritical.
Yes, it does because it's 60W.
This isn't how it works. Clocks don't scale indefinitely and the higher you go, the less efficient they are past a certain point. That's why a 600W 4090 is only around ~10% faster than a 400W despite it consuming 33% more power. You can't just clock the T234 to 5000GHz and expect it to perform accordingly.
The bottom line is, you're dealing with a mobile chip that can be docked to be clocked higher, but it is still a mobile chip nonetheless.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
What do you mean full custom? Going with nVIDIA was fine, easier BC with Switch 1.
Compared to the OG Switch they did get a semi custom design thry did not get just what was available (or Nintendo Switch 2 design fans need to swap notes and agree
… but no, all sign point to a semi-custom design).Sony pulled a fairly custom GPU from AMD for PS5 Pro, got AMD to redesign the FPU completely for PS5, etc… MS got similar early dibs on technology from both nVIDIA and AMD too.
Not talking about a full custom design, something based off of Lovelace at least with some modifications, like the File Decompression Engine they got added, the totally different CPU block they had compared to the automotive Tegra this was based on…
nVIDIA was pushing Nintendo to use a more modern design too… the problem seems to be the quite cash rich Nintendo not wanting to spend the money nVIDIA wanted to do that. Make of that what you will. Not sure if "we play fun not specs" are so bent against saying "sure they cheapened out on specs and battery life but we still like them", specs do not matter but they are great but they do not matter, but are great…
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
When did I say you cannot compare them? Of course, you can. However, when people compare the performance of a 5090 to a PS5 Pro, they correctly point out that the Pro's entire TDP is around 200W and the 5090 alone is 450W. They will all tell you how it's not reasonable to compare the two.
Doesn't mean we can't do it for academic purposes, but if your point is to prove 5090>Pro, then you're a moron.
Switch 2 is based on Tegra T234. Switch on Tegra X1. There is no Lovelace Tegra, so what would Nintendo base that Lovelace Tegra on?
Yes, hence my point. It's a semi-custom design of a mobile SoC. There's no Lovelace mobile Arm SoC, so how would your proposed solution even work? The lowest Lovelace is the RTX 4050 mobile. That couldn't even be used as a basis. They would have had to make a Tegra chip specifically for the Switch 2 instead of customizing an existing design like they did for the Switch and every other console.
You keep saying that, but where do you get that from? I never heard of NVIDIA pushing Nintendo for anything.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I care about, especially with price increases, that the pro customer image they want to cultivate shows them not nickel-and-dime their customers or cheapening out on their next generation HW in ways that affect their consumers and the system longevity. Battery life is something that affects the gameplay.
The baseline they set with the HW also affects the ports they get and the quality of the games. I would hope with a modern modern HW architecture baseline it would be easier for games to be optimised down to fit the console without core sacrifices or a lot of extra costs to the devs that would be passed down to customers.
A new handheld launched in 2025-2026 that needs to stay relevant for 8 years should invest quite heavily in ML (to make upscaling / sparse rendering much cheaper and practical, DLSS as it was on Ampere at the projected clocks and number of tensor cores in Switch 2 is very expensive to run) and RT HW acceleration (Shader execution reordering or SER, Ray reconstruction, BVH stack management and traversal handled in HW, etc… anything to make the feature as cheap as possible). The goal is not to make path tracing at 60 FPS viable on a portable console, but to make lower quality but still for a developer functionally similar enough RT support and per frame cost to be able not to have to re-engineer the game just for Switch. I do not want any barrier there if possible.
A console is an artist / dev canvas, limited features that might not be practical to use are more of a die space waste and missed opportunity than anything.
If the Switch 2 stays what it is exactly for 8 years price included and Switch 3 releases with a similar specs bump in 8 years should the price then go to $550 or $600…
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Who mentions TDP during these comparisons? LOL. No one does. They only talk about the fact that a 5090 is 4x the price of a PS5 Pro. Literally no one talks about TDP lol.
Easy with the insults. What are you, a 12-year old on the verge of puberty overloaded with hormones, struggling with normal conversations?
Assaulty
Member
The Switch 2 is decently powerful for a handheld console. Its not as powerful as the Nintendo Defence Force makes it out to be (and not as weak as the other side suggests)
I think going Nvidia was a great move by Nintendo. FSR up untill 3 just isn't it and looks really bad at lower resolutions like on the steam deck. DLSS looks a lot better by comparison and the switch 2 will need plenty of AI upscaling when its running 3-4 year old games at 30 fps already
I think going Nvidia was a great move by Nintendo. FSR up untill 3 just isn't it and looks really bad at lower resolutions like on the steam deck. DLSS looks a lot better by comparison and the switch 2 will need plenty of AI upscaling when its running 3-4 year old games at 30 fps already
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yep. Also, it is yet to be seen if NS2 has enough tensor cores to actually use all this amazing Nvidia's upscaling tech. Nintendo has been surprisingly shy with the details. Very little info available out there in terms of actual tech specs.
Baemono
Member
So if the Switch 2 released in 2022 with Cyberpunk as it is now, you'd be more impressed, even in 2025 ?
Loboxxx
Member
Cyberpunkd
Member
Yes, it does offer Nintendo exclusives, same as every other console they released.
They're relevant when talking about the capabilities of the product, along with the die size, since power and area are the two major constraints in chip design. Consumers don't have visibility of this, but probably understand that it isn't feasible for a home console to deliver ultra enthusiast class performance.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Nonsense. Power consumption is a very common topic in specs discussions. DF dedicated an entire section of their Pro review to it. Every GPU review talks about power consumption and it's frequently cited as a selling point. The TDP of the Series X vs PS5 was also a hot topic at one point. The Pro speculation threads were full of people guessing the potential performance based on the TDP of the base PS5 and several of us pointed out that a 4080-tier GPU was wholly impossible due to power constraints.
Except I'm not insulting you. Are you you trying to make a point that the 5090 is more powerful than the Pro's GPU? Of course, not.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Switch 1 was the X1, it was not based on it. Die shot showed it was exactly the same.
Switch 2 got a lot more changes from Tegra T234 (clock gating from Lovelace new CPU cluster, file decompression engines etc…) and they were not force to do that either. For all we know the next Tegra successor was on the table (nVIDIA has been working for years on new APUs with ARM CPUs and IGPs for the handheld and PC market).
Guess what… there was no chip like what XSX|S and PS5 received on the market and then lo-and-behold there were (let alone PS5 Pro) but those are semicustom design not designed from scratch, AMD and nVIDIA have modularised blocks they can customise and arrange based on what customers want and are willing to pay for.
There were some articles and other rumours around this, nVIDIA wanting to get a better crack at mobile gaming and handheld PCs and everything outside of automotive Tegra was being optimised for.
Based on their history, look at CUDA and how much money they spent to make all of their line compatible with it (and then adding RT and Tensor Cores… "The nVIDIA Way" is a good read/listen btw), nVIDIA does not want to fragment their own market in terms of baseline capabilities and wanted Switch 2 to help them push a higher baseline.
According to some users here, Sony should've delayed PS5 to 2025 for RDNA4 technology to arrive. Lol. Imagine waiting for your company's profits and revenue to reach the bottom because you're waiting for a better tech in the future despite your current device already nearing 9 years on the market.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Thats difference between you and me, you value tech and I value entirely different thing.
I'm buying Switch 2 same reason I buy any system, it has games that I want to play....thats it, I dont really care if it has latest tech or not.
The reason I'm unhappy with Sony this gen because they stopped making the games I like, they can have the latest tech but if I'm not getting the games I care about then all those tech it just pointless to me.
Cyberpunkd
Member
I'm more and more interested, since I come from the PC tinkering background so I don't mind a bit of troubleshooting or copy/pasting a folder here and there. With family and small kids Steam Deck is the only way I can play games nowadays. ROG Ally X is mighty fine, but at this point I'm thinking to hold on for a new version with Z2 Extreme.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I disagree, we both value games and the longevity of the system. I expect a very cash rich company to build an appropriate foundation for first and third party games and I think they could have done better.
With worse tech you would enjoy a 30 minutes batter life, for example, still thinking you do not value tech too
?Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You are making stuff up, but you have fun
.
Cyberpunkd
Member
It doesn't thermal throttle at higher TDP setup because of the fan. It's the same chip being pushed more, the difference is other handhelds give you the option of doing it in portable mode and just either drain the battery faster or ramp up the fans. Not so Nintendo because the users are too damn stupid to flip a toggle.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
For me I see it as architecture. X86 vs mobile. Consoles are literally PC APUs put into a smaller shell. I think about TDP, and it does come up when comparing Series S vs PS5. I wouldnt say it was as common when comparing a PC vs Console, but it does happen.
I think its fair to compare handhelds vs each other. PC handhelds vs switch 2. Steam deck, rog ally. That gives a better comparison. You can compare screens and overall capabilities of the machines.
When I do that, I personally feel the switch 2 is amazingly well priced.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
People complained about the same thing when original Switch came out but that didn't really stop me from enjoying games. I'm not type of person that bring gaming to bus ride or even on vacation.I disagree, we both value games and the longevity of the system. I expect a very cash rich company to build an appropriate foundation for first and third party games and I think they could have done better.
With worse tech you would enjoy a 30 minutes batter life, for example, still thinking you do not value tech too
I bought portable systems like Gameboy, DS, PSP, 3DS and PSVita not because it was "portable" but because it had games I want to play very badly.
I'm more than happy to pay money for system even with outdated tech as long as it has games I like, this why I chose to skip PS5pro while more than happy to buy Switch 2 despite Pro being way more "high tech".
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Lysandros
Member
It has 48 Tensor cores based on T239 leak. I think the leak is likely accurate and partly the reason why Nintendo remains radio silent on specs. Nintendo is a highly secretive company, specs aligning 1:1 with the leak would be a bad look from their perspective.
Your ROG Ally costs more than the Nintendo Switch 2. Theoretically, it should perform better than Switch 2, but it seems real-world performance might surprise many people here. Title like Wild Hearts is already running better on Switch 2 than ROG Ally. Star Wars Outlaws is another title to look for.
Lysandros
Member
Thinking about Switch 2's tensor cores, can someone confirm if those are running at GPU frequency on Nvidia's architecture thus their throughput tied to it? An estimated TOPs figure would be nice. RTX 2060 has about 57 TOPs with 240 Tensor cores apparently as a point of comparison.
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LordOcidax
Member
Lol, some people here are something else, from the Switch it's not going to be capable of run Cyberpunk… A few months ago, TO 
I am not impressed. 
Quoting time?
I am not impressed. Quoting time?
LordOcidax
Member
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I completely destroyed James in the speculations of Switch 2
He's about as tech literate as the lost tribes of Peru.
LordOcidax
Member
James has moved the goalpost so many times to the point that he's not impressed with the Switch 2 being on par with the Ps4Pro or the Series S 
And he is not going to stop.., trust me.
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
It's not an OLED.
basement dweller
Neo Member
Looks fine. Maybe I'll buy it on sale. I'm getting Switch 2 day one but anyone who thinks the third party and graphics situation will be significantly better this time around is delusional.
In a year or two it's going to be getting the low resolution 'impossible ports' from third party devs, barely passable ports etc same as Switch 1, and every other N console past 20 years.
In a year or two it's going to be getting the low resolution 'impossible ports' from third party devs, barely passable ports etc same as Switch 1, and every other N console past 20 years.
Switch 2 already has Elden Ring, FF7R, CP2077, Star Wars Outlaws, Split Fiction, SF6, Hogwarts Legacy, and Borderlands 4 announced for the system in terms of 3rd-party ports, while Switch 1 only got Skyrim for a big 3rd-party game announcement lol.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
You are making stuff up, but you have fun
He's right
FSR pixel soup should have never released
Deerock71
Member
Maybe they've already got a Switch 2 PrOLED all planned out.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Nope, you got destroyed when the system was finally revealed and they didn't live up to your claims
You're about as tech literate as the switch 2 is competitive in 2025.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
oh boy
you lost
I'm exactly within that envelope I described and actually its living up to being better than that.
You're a meme at this point my friend.
Marginal upgrade over Switch 1
Doubt it'll be over 1.5TF in portable mode, so under Steam deck... how did that age
Switch 2 is just a switch pro
Switch 2 docked won't even surpass base PS4
Go back to your own
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Shaki12345
Gold Member
You have to lock down system specs years in advance.
And you're saying other people here are tech illiterate? Funny man.
Shaki12345
Gold Member
The specs will be revealed to all very soon anyway. With or without Nintendo.
naguanatak
Member
The people who don't own the other systems, people who want to play on the train, outdoors, in the garden, or - like me - at work because I have a 16 months old and another one coming in september so time in front of the tv is almost nonexistent atm.
There might be other reasons/factors I can't think of right now, but it always boggles my mind when people can't think of any reason at all why someone would do something they themselves won't
Generic
Member
Shouldn't be $450 then.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
oh boy
you lost
I'm exactly within that envelope I described and actually its living up to being better than that.
You're a meme at this point my friend.
Marginal upgrade over Switch 1
Doubt it'll be over 1.5TF in portable mode, so under Steam deck... how did that age
Switch 2 is just a switch pro
Switch 2 docked won't even surpass base PS4
Go back to your own
Let's see how accurate you were
9-14X.
Reality: 5X
Samsung 8nm does not fit with the die size we see
All estimates point to a near Series S die size, from the images leaked, we have the component sizes around the socket to compare.
Ballparks of this Nvidia socket is ~190-210 mm^2
Let's pick 200mm^2 for simplicity. The ±10mm^2 don't matter.
Orin: 16SM, 12*A78, 21B transistors, on samsung 8nm node is 455mm^2
T239: 12SM, 8*A78, 200mm^2
With the samsung density at 8nm, you would have 9B transistors
You do not cut an Orin from 21B transistors to 9B transistors with those T239 stats. So Samsung 8nm is eliminated. Not needing any precision in measuring die sizes or knowing in-depth the architecture changes. 21B→9B is too far a departure.
Samsung 7LPP & 6LPP are gone from the fabs.
It leaves Samsung 5nm node. I don't think Nintendo would go for 4nm for costs reasons.
Then rumour of 5nm
Thing is while Qualcomm left Samsung pissed off and went to TSMC, Nvidia is kind of a good match with Samsung as Nvidia does not go hyper dense in their architecture, leaving room for heat dissipation and stability. It's why nodes don't really matter in the end. The chip manufacturers all have vastly different coefficient targets when making their chipsets. Nvidia knows well their architecture and this fab.
It's totally 5nm guys! I did some maths
Proven wrong time and time again on this
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