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Danish inventor now claims accident on board sub killed missing reporter (body found)

P

Pedersen

Member
Here's a clip from the 'What Does The Fox Say' guys interviewing him in his workshop and in the sub seven years ago. Seemed like pretty alright guy with big ambitions.
 
J

jiiikoo

Banned
Mogwai said:
Mr Madsen used to blog on the Danish engineering news site "Ingeniøren" (The Engineer). I sometimes skimmed his insanely elaborate stream-of-conscious posts about rocket and submarine projects. He always seemed like he had one million thoughts going on at a time. Almost like if he was in a state of mania or something.
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I dont doubt that one bit. He seems quite unstable from what I can gather.
 
Patrick S.

Patrick S.

Banned
It's always amazing that whatever happens anywhere in the world, some Gaffer is affected by it or knows someone who is. RIP beautiful lady :(
 
N

nitewulf

Member
Patrick S. said:
It's always amazing that whatever happens anywhere in the world, some Gaffer is affected by it or knows someone who is. RIP beautiful lady :(
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She was based out of NYC and went to Columbia Uni...many of NYC-ers circles and social spheres co-mingle. I wouldn't be surprised if I know someone who knew her, I have friends who went to Columbia.
 
A

autumnleaf

Member
strafer said:
Why didnt someone go with her? Alone with him in a submarine is scary.
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If something happened to her it's pretty obvious who the culprit would have to be, that would normally be enough to scare off any creep from trying anything given they're guranteed to get caught.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
Spiritual_Chaos said:
As I commented above, look at the case of the Linda Chen murder in Sweden. The police consider the case to be "resolved/solved" but they couldn't convict the killer in court because with the state the corpse was in you couldn't completely rule out her dying from an accident.
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That seems quite different.

A body found in an advanced state of decomposition versus a dismembered body, artificially weighed down.
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
bonesmccoy said:
That seems quite different.

A body found in an advanced state of decomposition versus a dismembered body, artificially weighed down.
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A body being dismembered and weighed down VS a body being consciously burned and hidden in the woods.

And the point is, they need to be able to prove that she was killed.

And that could be hard if they don't find the head or if she died in a way where its not obvious she was murdered.
 
S

Savitar

Member
His story never checked out to begin with, why would you bury a body at sea even if there was an accident? You would return it to the family naturally.
 
D

Drencrom

Member
Mr Madsen's lawyer, Betina Hald Engmark, said the news that the torso was Ms Wall did not change her client's position, that the journalist had died in an accident.

He was "very relieved" the torso had been identified, she told Danish media. "He wants nothing else than for this case to be cleared up."
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Fuck this lying POS. What kind of "accident" makes you dismember a body and put weights on it so it won't float when you "bury" the corpse at sea before sinking your submarine? Like really, I'd love to hear his story of how this shit went down.

Savitar said:
His story never checked out to begin with, why would you bury a body at sea even if there was an accident? You would return it to the family naturally.
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The fact that he first said that he "let her off" alive and later changed his story into she dying in an "accident" alone outs him.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
if they can prove that the body had been intentionally dismembered and weighted down, and the sub sabotaged, he's not gonna go free. It's not a murder without a body anymore
 
S

Spiritual_Chaos

Banned
Violet_0 said:
if they can prove that the body had been intentionally dismembered and weighted down, and the sub sabotaged, he's not gonna go free. It's not a murder without a body anymore
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Intentionally dismembering and weighting down a body is in itself not murder though. It's "desecration/violation of a corpse" (if that's the correct english term).
 
N

Nothus

Member
This makes me think of the Robert Durst case, where he killed a guy, chopped him up into bits and threw the bin bags full of body parts into a river. He admitted to killing the guy but said it was self defense. In the end I think the only thing he was convicted of was improper disposal of a body or something ridiculous like that.

For a murder charge to stick there needs to be pre-meditation. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that the cops will check his internet history etc for anything that they can use to demonstrate that this was pre-meditated.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
So far as I am aware there's no requirement for premeditation in Danish law in order to prove murder. Intent to kill is necessary though. Evidence of premeditation, if there is any, would of course be rather helpful in proving intent.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
BBC News: Kim Wall case: Murder charge sought for Peter Madsen
Prosecutors in Denmark say they will bring murder charges against the inventor suspected of killing a Swedish journalist on board his submarine.
They are expected to ask for the new charges when Mr Madsen appears in court in early September.
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He is also likely to get charged for the mutilation of the body.

And for something less grim:
Kim Wall: An ‘exceptional’ journalist remembered
The 30-year-old freelance journalist had travelled the world in pursuit of her stories - from Uganda to Cuba to the Marshall Islands to Kenya to New York City.
At one point she even "slipped into" North Korea.
...
Ms Wall's "pint-sized" physical presence and personal humility were misleading - the redhead was a formidable person and a driven journalist, say those who knew her.
She was born in 1987 and grew up in a close-knit community in the small town of Trelleborg in southern Sweden, just across the strait dividing Denmark from Sweden.
...
"She was very bubbly and warm, the kind of person who had fantastic stories about the things she was working on - you could jump straight past the small talk.
"She was intellectual, so well-travelled and had such varied interests. She was interested in quirky and eccentric stories. If you were at a party you'd end up passing hours just chatting to her."
This admiration has been echoed by numerous friends.
Ms Wall wrote "about subcultures, about a globalised world in rapid change", says Victoria Greve in Sweden's Expressen newspaper. "About life in a huge shopping centre in Kampala's Chinatown, about Cuba's underground internet providers who download and disseminate new episodes of Keeping Up with the Kardashians to people from all walks of life in Havana. We made a report together about the wealthy women in New York who voted for Donald Trump."
...
Friends and family have urged the world not to let the nature of her death overshadow her life.
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In that article there is also a link to a nice twitter thread about her work
 
M

mclem

Member
Spiritual_Chaos said:
A body being dismembered and weighed down VS a body being consciously burned and hidden in the woods.

And the point is, they need to be able to prove that she was killed.

And that could be hard if they don't find the head or if she died in a way where its not obvious she was murdered.
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He's claiming an accident, and she was buried at sea, which means he should - in principle - be able to present an explanation of the circumstance in which the accident took place. At the risk of getting all Phoenix Wrighty on it, that's going to be a very hard fabrication to maintain.

phisheep said:
So far as I am aware there's no requirement for premeditation in Danish law in order to prove murder. Intent to kill is necessary though. Evidence of premeditation, if there is any, would of course be rather helpful in proving intent.
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There's the interesting matter of where the *equipment* came from for the dismemberment. Is there something that would plausibly be lying around a submarine that could fit the bill?
 
TheRedSnifit

TheRedSnifit

Member
mclem said:
There's the interesting matter of where the *equipment* came from for the dismemberment. Is there something that would plausibly be lying around a submarine that could fit the bill?
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Plenty of things. People have hacked off their own limbs with pen knives (and lived!). Basically anything sharp can do the trick.
 
O

Oersted

Member
mclem said:
He's claiming an accident, and she was buried at sea, which means he should - in principle - be able to present an explanation of the circumstance in which the accident took place. At the risk of getting all Phoenix Wrighty on it, that's going to be a very hard fabrication to maintain.



There's the interesting matter of where the *equipment* came from for the dismemberment. Is there something that would plausibly be lying around a submarine that could fit the bill?
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If anyone has powerful tools than probably someone who built a submarine


Anyway, rest in Peace to the victim. Utterly horrific stuff.
 
M

MikeHattsu

Member
http://cphpost.dk/news/swedish-journalist-killed-by-falling-hatch-cover-submariner-claims.html

The case of the dead Swedish journalist Kim Wall took another turn this afternoon when the accused submarine owner Peter Madsen presented his side of the story in court.

he explained that Kim Wall died at around 22:00 on the evening of August 1, reports DR Nyheder.

Wall allegedly died after being struck by a hatch cover weighing 70 kilos. Madsen explained that you have to go up to the bridge to steer the submarine.

He raised the hatch and Wall was below him in the submarine and they agreed that she should come up. Suddenly, he slipped on the platform and the hatch fell and hit her.

Afterwards, Madsen could see she was badly hurt and was probably dead. He then explained that he went into a state of shock because one of his crazy experiments had been the cause of someone’s death.

Madsen then decided to sail out into deep water in the Sound and end it all, but changed his mind and instead decided to dispose of Wall’s body at sea.

Madsen’s lawyer has said that he is still pleading not guilty to the charge of manslaughter. He does, however, admit he is guilty of desecrating Wall’s body by throwing her overboard, but maintains her body was intact.
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D

Drencrom

Member
gamma said:
imo the fact that he disposed of the body, sank the submarine and lied about it should be enough proof.
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Everyone who isn't stupid can see that he's guilty of her demise and that he literally did everything he could to cover it up (the dismembered body, sinking his sub, lying he dropped her off alive). Proving it is gonna be hard unfortunately.

Has he explained why his sub "sank" yet? If the hatch killed her and he simply threw her corpse in the ocean, what "freak accident" caused his sub faulting and sinking?
 
K

Keasar

Member
If he had brought the body back to shore after the accident, intact with the damage and not cut up like it was discovered, it would have been believable. This however due to the circumstances is most likely murder.

Could be that it was an accident and he panicked, but I just find it unlikely at this point.
 
D

Dragon Puncher

Member
So this might sound tabloidish, but I thought I would let people in on what danish journalists are saying about this case openly and a little behind closed doors (I work as a journalist myself). Especially after his rather unconvincing testimony today.

So it's well known that Madsen likes women and is in an open relationship with his wife. What isn't public knowledge is that Madsen according to people close to him was heavily into bondage and that he had already meet Wall multiple times before, contrary to his own statements today. I've also heard (this is something I'm more unsure of), that Wall sent a text about "something feeling wrong" to her boyfriend while on the submarine.

Also one of the most damning evidence statements today, was someone claiming to have seen Madsen walk towards his submarine with a saw in hand on the day of the trip with Wall.

The strongest argument seems to be for some sort of sex act gone wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if this was actually planned though, considering how the body was mutilated deliberately in a way to try and make in stay at the bottom.
 
R

RMI

Banned
Lonely1 said:
I'm no expert. But proving that this was a murder sounds very hard. :S
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basically your only chance of not coming off like a liar when you wind up with a dead body is to go immediately to the authorities. Lying about it and dumping the body to be found later is what guilty people do.
 
E

Emperor_Uriel

Member
Dragon Puncher said:
So this might sound tabloidish, but I thought I would let people in on what danish journalists are saying about this case openly and a little behind closed doors (I work as a journalist myself). Especially after his rather unconvincing testimony today.

So it's well known that Madsen likes women and is in an open relationship with his wife. What isn't public knowledge is that Madsen according to people close to him was heavily into bondage and that he had already meet Wall multiple times before, contrary to his own statements today. I've also heard (this is something I'm more unsure of), that Wall sent a text about "something feeling wrong" to her boyfriend while on the submarine.

Also one of the most damning evidence statements today, was someone claiming to have seen Madsen walk towards his submarine with a saw in hand on the day of the trip with Wall.

The strongest argument seems to be for some sort of sex act gone wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if this was actually planned though, considering how the body was mutilated deliberately in a way to try and make in stay at the bottom.
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All very interesting info, although I feel that Mr. Madsen was likely into more than bondage and polyamory if he truly intended to kill her. It's not often that a 46-year-old man with no prior issues decides to commit murder.

The fact that he knew to not only dismember her, but to account for gas buildup and dispose of the head separately, makes me wonder if this was truly his first time.
 
D

Dragon Puncher

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
All very interesting info, although I feel that Mr. Madsen was likely into more than bondage and polyamory if he truly intended to kill her. It's not often that a 46-year-old man with no prior issues decides to commit murder.

The fact that he knew to not only dismember her, but to account for gas buildup and dispose of the head separately, makes me wonder if this was truly his first time.
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It wouldn't surprise me at this point, but that's just speculation whereas the what what I posted is actually confirmed by the court hearing or multiple sources. If it turns out it was planned all along, I have no doubt police will start to look closely at other missing person cases in the last couple of years.

I doubt it though. If you wanted to kill someone, doing it in a submarine where you are the only other person present, would be one of the dummest ways to go about it. There's is litterally no scenario there where you don't end up as a primary suspect, even if you didn't do it.

News from the court hearing are also now confirming that Wall's stockings, shoes and panties where found in the submarine. According to Madsen they fell off when he carried her after she hit her head. And he is now saying she died in an accident on the submarine, he panicked and tried to bury her in one piece.
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
The fact that he knew to not only dismember her, but to account for gas buildup and dispose of the head separately, makes me wonder if this was truly his first time.
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Did he get people to crowdfund a murderlab?

nhlducks35 said:
Robert Durst mutilated a person and got off without going to jail (In America, read up on the case with Morris Black)
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Hey, he actually did go to jail. (for evidence tampering lol)
 
R

Rupetta

Member
In the court hearing today the prosecutor told the court that they have found videos of women being tortured and killed on Madsen's computer - the prosecutor does not claim Madsen has partaken in the production of these videos but show that he had a morbid interest and fetish for killing and torturing women. Madsen claims the computer, while his, has previously been used by an intern and denied ever having watched the videos.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article6852740.ece

edit [added translation of quotes]: "– It is our view that these are videos that show the murder of women. On the hard-drive there are several videos that show the executions of women. These are films that have been produced abroad. But they show that he had a fetish for torture and murder", says Jakob Buch-Jepsen, prosecutor of the case
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Rupetta said:
In the court hearing today the prosecutor told the court that they have found videos of women being tortured and killed on Madsen's computer - the prosecutor does not claim Madsen has partaken in the production of these videos but show that he had a morbid interest and fetish for killing and torturing women. Madsen claims the computer, while his, has previously been used by an intern and denied ever having watched the videos.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article6852740.ece
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I wonder if it's run of the mill BDSM or snuff porn?

Damning either way in this context.
 
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