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[Turk1993]

It's impressive but is it worth the performance cost? I dont think so.

Bruh you are the one that is constantly shouting that devs should aim for 1440p30fps for the max fidelity. And now when CDPR does that and pushes even the 4090 and now you are talking about performance and the worth of sacrificing of it. Some times you are weird my man .

 

[SlimySnake]

Bruh you are the one that is constantly shouting that devs should aim for 1440p30fps for the max fidelity. And now when CDPR does that and pushes even the 4090 and now you are talking about performance and the worth of sacrificing of it. Some times you are weird my man .

Nah, I meant that the visual difference isnt worth it. Id rather that GPU performance go towards improving other aspects of the visual experience.

Im ok with what Lumens is doing. This might look more accurate than the Matrix in terms of shadows and reflections, but matrix still looks better.

 

[Alex11]

IMHO apparently some people don't understand what "impressive" means.

"Impressive" is this screenshot I took on my PS5 ($400 to $500 of hardware cost) using the 60FPS Performance mode.

Getting great looking lighting running at slideshow speeds using a >2500€ PC simply means you're brute forcing the ordeal and it's of little use to anyone right now. It's simply not an efficient use of compute resources no matter how you look at it. It's lack of optimization taken to the extreme.


Its only practical use is to serve as an advertisement for Nvidia's 1800€ gigantic graphics cards, and for corporation / monopoly lovers to circlejerk.
And boy, do those circlejerkers like to circlejerk. It's a friggin' circlejerking party out here.


EDIT: It's okay boys, don't need to get so triggered. This is just a forum on the internet where other people can #gasp# disagree with you.
Just turn off the monitor for a minute and paint flowers with the crayons. It'll pass.

Well you're both wrong and right here in a way. There's impressive how efficient something is, like you said from a 500 $ PS5, a truly beautiful game like Horizon at 60 fps, and there's something impressive on a graphical level, like CP2077, and nobody should downplay this achievement, impressive I think is a matter of perspective and preferences, it's not black and white.

Advertisement, tech demo, the fact that you need a beefy PC to play it smooth or whatever other reason, sure, but that's another matter altogether.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

All graphical advancements are bullshit gimmicks and I hate them, unless they can run on my $500 console.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

a lot of screenshots look great, but the DF video honestly just looked so-so a bunch of times.
scenes were usually better, but sometimes just different. and a lot brighter.
and NPC model/animation jank really stood out.

path tracing is cool and i want more, but eh i dont know... not floored by this result.

 

[Skifi28]

All graphical advancements are bullshit gimmicks and I hate them, unless they can run on my $500 console.

They most certainly can, just don't ask at what framerate.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

The "PS4 assets" thing cracks me up.

Meanwhile Assassin's Creed Unity from 2014 running on a 1.8 TFLOPs PS4:

So yes, it's using mostly 8th-gen console assets. Obviously.
The game was announced before the PS4 and XBOne even released. See the date on the teaser trailer?



If you think CDPR started developing this game in 2013 with >40 TFLOPs GPUs in mind that cost 1800€ and made its assets accordingly then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Turk1993]

I thought we already passed April fools, whats with all that delusional trolling in this thread.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Any fix for characters having weird light dots on them in some indoor cut scenes

 

[GHG]

Any fix for characters having weird light dots on them in some indoor cut scenes

I've not seen that yet myself. What DLSS mode(s) are you using?

I also have most of the post processing turned off though, film grain, lens flare, CA etc are all turned off.

 

[Kataploom]

This is the RT that should be able to be done on consoles before trying to sell the technology as viable. It should help speed up development by not having to loose time on rasterized lighting setups, which is too time consuming.

I'll accept little to no graphical leap next gen of that means consoles can handle it and devs use it instead, in theory dev cycles should be faster by not having that bottleneck.

That's as much of a revolution in the development pipeline as it was shader-based computing or PBR back in time..

But that takes lots of resources and development tools. Once "tools" are set up for current gen, geometry engine, SFS and DirectStorage will basically work the same.

 

[Kataploom]

Absolutely stunning stuff. At least in some areas. The performance hit isnt as bad as I thought it would be. 48 fps Raster vs 18 fps? Thats what 2.5x? I am currently getting 60 fps using psycho RT settings on my 3080 at 4k dlss performance. If i go down to 1440p dlss performance, i might actually be able to run this.

I dont see how this is the future though. the visual gains just arent enough to justify a 2.5x hit to performance. That kind of the GPU overhead is better spent elsewhere like adding more detail and better character models. I think Matrix still looks better because of this. Will next gen or even PS7 consoles use path tracing? I just dont think so unless they can figure out a way to reduce the cost by half.

I wouldn't mind mild graphical leap if that means leaving behind rasterized lighting in order to speed up development process, honestly...

 

[Mahavastu]

I thought we will never see such insane difference in graphics... but I was wrong . I wonder if something like 4070 will even run this enhanced RT mode with at least 30fps 1440p.

DF tested it in todays video.

Timestamped

 

[Umbasaborne]

I've not seen that yet myself. What DLSS mode(s) are you using?

I also have most of the post processing turned off though, film grain, lens flare, CA etc are all turned off.

Using dlss quality mode. All post processing turned off

 

[ANDS]

- SNIP -
If you think CDPR started developing this game in 2013 with >40 TFLOPs GPUs in mind that cost 1800€ and made its assets accordingly then I have a bridge to sell you.

I dunno what poor bastard is playing CP77 in those photos, but my game sure as sugar didn't look like that.

 

[A.Romero]

I don't get why there is so much controversy regarding this. Just as always: if your rig can run it great, if not just disable it. We will probably have enough compute power within 5 years to run it without compromises and this software will still be there.

The main point of studios releasing this stuff it to develop mastery of the techniques and integrate this tech in their development pipelines. They would be stupid to wait until mainstream hardware is ready to start working on their development capabilities.

Is it perfect? No. However, it is the future. No need to worry, people that don't like it still have many options of games that don't touch this at all.

Also, it often feels we are just looking for stuff to complain about. If PC games don't have cutting edge techniques we whine because consoles are holding development back. If they do include it but current hardware can't run it to one's idea of decent performance we whine.

 

[Killer8]

The game was announced before the PS4 and XBOne even released. See the date on the teaser trailer?



If you think CDPR started developing this game in 2013 with >40 TFLOPs GPUs in mind that cost 1800€ and made its assets accordingly then I have a bridge to sell you.

This is all easily Google-able, but sigh, here goes...

2013 was when they announced it after securing the rights, but there was nothing to show back then. Not even CDPR had any idea of what the game was ultimately going to be. Hence why it was a CGI trailer.

They only entered pre-production on what would become the released game after the final Witcher 3 expansion was released (2016). Much of that time was spent upgrading the engine to RED Engine 4. The first ever in-engine trailer was shown at Microsoft's E3 2018 conference, so about 2 years after they started. It was shown in 4K, like all other trailers at that time, in what was very obviously going to be an Xbox One X version.

In 2018, the PS4 Pro had already been out for 2 years and the Xbox One X for one year. The amount of TFLOPS developers were now playing with on consoles could be as high as 6 TFLOPs on a One X. Do you know what else came out in 2018? The RTX 2080, an 11 TFLOPs card, a power level not particularly far from what would be in next-gen consoles. We had ray-tracing back in 2018 and the game still had 2 more years of production before it released. It's no secret that CDPR partnered with Nvidia for ray-tracing during this time, which was announced at E3 2019 - a full year before release - and the game ultimately launched with RTX. It was on the cards for years.

The state of Cyberpunk at release on PS4 and Xbox One was sad but not surprising. People wondered how the game was possibly going to run on launch consoles ever since it was revealed. Here is one such article. CDPR themselves even had to try to reassure fans it was still possible. In a 2019 world of Pro consoles, 11 TFLOPs graphics cards, ray tracing and all released trailers being pristine 4K, absolutely no one believed this shit would run acceptably on a 1.84 TFLOPs PS4 - and everyone's gut feeling ended up being right.

 

[Hugare]

Meanwhile Assassin's Creed Unity from 2014 running on a 1.8 TFLOPs PS4:

So yes, it's using mostly 8th-gen console assets. Obviously.
The game was announced before the PS4 and XBOne even released. See the date on the teaser trailer?



If you think CDPR started developing this game in 2013 with >40 TFLOPs GPUs in mind that cost 1800€ and made its assets accordingly then I have a bridge to sell you.

I dont know if you understand the difference between assets and lighting

Assets from the PC version of Cyberpunk and the console versions are the same. The difference is how those assets are being lit.

AC Unity is one incredibly looking game, due to its lighting engine. The assets are poor mostly, despite having excellent PBR properties.

If you think a AC Unity pedestrian model is better than a Cyberpunk pedestrian model you must be blind

 

[FireFly]

Assets from the PC version of Cyberpunk and the console versions are the same. The difference is how those assets are being lit.

Are they? Alex from DF thinks they are different, and there are some crazy high detail models.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52039719694_f537fca51a_o.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52035966200_571959d80e_o.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51040972422_aec263914c_o.png

 

[Hugare]

Are they? Alex from DF thinks they are different, and there are some crazy high detail models.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52039719694_f537fca51a_o.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52035966200_571959d80e_o.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51040972422_aec263914c_o.png

Texture detail? Sure

Actual increase in poli count? Dont think so

It's the same, but at higher res + textures

 

[Denton]

If you think CDPR started developing this game in 2013 with >40 TFLOPs GPUs in mind that cost 1800€ and made its assets accordingly then I have a bridge to sell you.

Cyberpunk's actual final iteration - the one that shipped - entered development in 2016. Everything made before then got scrapped when game directors changed. In the previous iteration Cyberpunk was a third person game..

Also, AC Unity looks nice, yes. It is also 100% static and baked in, with time of day changes requiring literal loading screen for reload of the world, and even then there are only four specific times of day. Comparing baked lighting with realtime is moronic.

 

[Hugare]

Some observations from playing a bit more:

* Some scenes doesnt look quite as good as before despite being realistically lit because there arent enough light sources. They look too dark now.
* After changing some settings my FPS droped from a cliff. Restarting the game made it go up again. If you think the game is performing worse than before despite lowering some graphical settings, restart the game.

PS: Not being able to turn off RTX reflections to increase performance kinda sucks

 

[GHG]

This is the RT that should be able to be done on consoles before trying to sell the technology as viable. It should help speed up development by not having to loose time on rasterized lighting setups, which is too time consuming.

I'll accept little to no graphical leap next gen of that means consoles can handle it and devs use it instead, in theory dev cycles should be faster by not having that bottleneck.

That's as much of a revolution in the development pipeline as it was shader-based computing or PBR back in time..

But that takes lots of resources and development tools. Once "tools" are set up for current gen, geometry engine, SFS and DirectStorage will basically work the same.

I think the problem is that the consoles would need to go back a generation in terms of asset quality and/or run at hideously low resolutions in order to run something like this at an acceptable framerate. There's a reason something like Teardown hasn't been able to make it's way to consoles yet.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Getting ~40fps in the city on my RTX3080 & Ryzen 5 5600X PC, 1440p, DLSS Balanced, other graphics settings using Digital Foundry's recommended optimal settings from around CP's release with Path Tracing turned on.

So cool to see it in action. But I've been spoiled playing above 60fps, so it's not a great play experience to me. Like someone else mentioned ITT, it's fun to treat it as a non-gameplay walkaround mode and a vision into the future (unless you're rocking a 4090 or so).

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Some observations from playing a bit more:

* Some scenes doesnt look quite as good as before despite being realistically lit because there arent enough light sources. They look too dark now.
* After changing some settings my FPS droped from a cliff. Restarting the game made it go up again. If you think the game is performing worse than before despite lowering some graphical settings, restart the game.

PS: Not being able to turn off RTX reflections to increase performance kinda sucks

It's great but I get what you're saying about the lighting. Keep in mind this game wasn't made with RT as a baseline and had to be catered for the consoles. It's still the best graphical showcase ever.

If we can get a game designed better to accommodate things getting dark but should have to accept that if a scene is dark and at night then you would have little to no visibility. Careful what you ask for because there's no getting around how realistic this game is rendering and if it's too dark, so is real life.

Performance going down is expected running this level of rendering.

This is a great thing to see and pushes even the best hardware but we need to continue to see this and not lose the sense of wonder when we see these new visual benchmarks.

 

[M1987]

I get 30-40 fps 1440p FSR ultra performance on a 6800 XT it looks fucking terrible

 

[Schmendrick]

That's exactly what I wanted to see. Path tracing is the future, but even with lumen, a talented developer can achieve photo-realistic results too.

You realize that Lumen doesn't automatically mean real-time and that you're looking at offline render comparisons with settings we'll never see in game this gen?

 

[Kataploom]

I think the problem is that the consoles would need to go back a generation in terms of asset quality and/or run at hideously low resolutions in order to run something like this at an acceptable framerate. There's a reason something like Teardown hasn't been able to make it's way to consoles yet.

I'm ok with that, the industry needs to take a break in productions value a bit, expectations have gone way too fast in comparison to manpower and times and budgets have gone though the roof, it's not a sane industry in the AAA segment because of that...

 

[CGNoire]

Nah, I meant that the visual difference isnt worth it. Id rather that GPU performance go towards improving other aspects of the visual experience.

Im ok with what Lumens is doing. This might look more accurate than the Matrix in terms of shadows and reflections, but matrix still looks better.

I get what your saying for sure. Asset quality fucking matters and CP is still firmly in PS4 territory. "This" gen should just focus on the quality achievable with solutions like nanite and lumen mixed with higher quality ground breaking assets.

....but at the same time I think this upgrade is just sublime. Directionality of light "at all times" has always been my highest want in graphics.I am definatly playing this maxed out. Thank god it runs at 45-60fps with Balanced DLSS since Im only really aiming for a solid 30fps. I can probably get away with a solid 30fps with higher quality DLSS settings and minimal artifacts.

Not every dev should go this route but Im so glad they did. Sure if they updated everything else it would makr our collective graphics whore eyes bleed. We can still dream.

 

[CGNoire]

I dont know if you understand the difference between assets and lighting

Assets from the PC version of Cyberpunk and the console versions are the same. The difference is how those assets are being lit.

AC Unity is one incredibly looking game, due to its lighting engine. The assets are poor mostly, despite having excellent PBR properties.

If you think a AC Unity pedestrian model is better than a Cyberpunk pedestrian model you must be blind

Yep when photorealism is concerned...Lighting and Shader Quality>>>> High Poly Assets.

If people doubt that they need to check out Ian Hubert's YT channel and watch his 1 minute tutorials. He often fills his photreal scenes with animated humans made of only a couple thosand at most polys. Some time less.

 

[SlimySnake]

I get what your saying for sure. Asset quality fucking matters and CP is still firmly in PS4 territory. "This" gen should just focus on the quality achievable with solutions like nanite and lumen mixed with higher quality ground breaking assets.

....but at the same time I think this upgrade is just sublime. Directionality of light "at all times" has always been my highest want in graphics.I am definatly playing this maxed out. Thank god it runs at 45-60fps with Balanced DLSS since Im only really aiming for a solid 30fps. I can probably get away with a solid 30fps with higher quality DLSS settings and minimal artifacts.

Not every dev should go this route but Im so glad they did. Sure if they updated everything else it would makr our collective graphics whore eyes bleed. We can still dream.

Oh yeah. Sometimes I forget that not everyone knows my post history and i hate qualifying my posts, but I have repeatedly said that cyberpunk is arguably the best looking game on PC and one of the top 3 on any platform. Its one of the few games that looks better than it did in the original vertical slice. It's just that im looking at those screenshots and wondering is the performance hit worth the more accurate shadows?

This is something that comes up in the Next Gen Graphics Fidelity thread, and I will always pick better fidelity over more accurate rendering. As good as cyberpunk looks, the next gen game from CD Project is going to blow it away even if they dont use path tracing.

 

[BennyBlanco]

 

[TIGERCOOL]

is it worth it to run dlss quality at 4k?

 

[CGNoire]

Patch tracing (PT) in the cyberpunk looks EXTREMELY impressive, but I feel like GI in this game wasnt very good, so now the difference between the raster vs patch tracing is exaggerated. I've seen many UE5 tech demos, and the GI in these demos looked more comparable to the image on the right. It's almost like there's no GI at all on the left image, so no wonder why people think PT in the cyberpunk looks so impressive.

I would like to see a proper comparison between lumen and patch tracing in UE5 (the same location and assets), because only then it's possible to see how much difference PT really makes. Lumen on it's own look impressive too.

dude people even graphics enthusiasts keep forgetting that Pathtracing's Main Effect isnt on the enviroment its on "Dynamic Objects" like Characters and and Props. The enviroment of course looks better but now every dynamic objects looks rigt all the time which is FUCKING GIGANTIC. Also you cant show off the most impressive effects of this without video. Its all about how dynamic objects look in motion.

Unless Stalker 2 is using Lumen its dynamic objects wont look as good nearly as often.

Id like to give a due props for Alex actually showing it proper bye choosing scenes with alot of objects in them. Most of the shots scene in the trailer by CDRED themselves did a far worse job showing off where the upgrade really mattered.

 

[BennyBlanco]

is it worth it to run dlss quality at 4k?

In general, yea definitely.

 

[CGNoire]

Oh yeah. Sometimes I forget that not everyone knows my post history and i hate qualifying my posts, but I have repeatedly said that cyberpunk is arguably the best looking game on PC and one of the top 3 on any platform. Its one of the few games that looks better than it did in the original vertical slice. It's just that im looking at those screenshots and wondering is the performance hit worth the more accurate shadows?

This is something that comes up in the Next Gen Graphics Fidelity thread, and I will always pick better fidelity over more accurate rendering. As good as cyberpunk looks, the next gen game from CD Project is going to blow it away even if they dont use path tracing.

I didnt think you looked down on the graphics. Im the one who keeps saying it had ps4 assets.

For me its like ever since saw High end CGI as a kid Lighting and Shadows along with Textures and Bump Maps where allways my most wanted. Since we already have pretty decent to tolerable quality Textures on stuff I want now more than ever to ditch bad lighting. But if I had to choose if TLOU 2 was remade with Pathtracing or the animation and face quality from the infamous trailer Id of course choose the latter since it matters far more.

We really badly need Next Gen characters.

 

[CGNoire]

While lumen looks really good and should be used almost always, path tracing is just on another level. People don't understand how impressive it is that a game like CP2077 can even run with path tracing. Here you can see the latest build of UE5 with the latest lumen vs path tracing, same scene same assets both in UE5

I agree but is the one on the right really "Epic" lumen settings cause Ive seen it look alot better.

 

[CGNoire]

The "PS4 assets" thing cracks me up. The game barely even ran on a PS4 without massive downgrades. This was "PS4 assets" at launch:

The game took 20 seconds to load in textures and hobbled along at 15fps. It was so bad it got pulled from sale. Even after the patches rolled in and made it somewhat playable, this is what the comparison looked like (*using Psycho RT here, so Overdrive looks even better):

Deep down, Cyberpunk was always a next-gen game that was downgraded just enough to run (and barely at that) on then current gen consoles. It was not a GTAV on PS3 later upgraded on PS4 scenario - behind the scenes, it was more like a Shadow of Morder on PS4 being ported down to PS3 scenario.



The idea of generations is also getting about as blurry as that PS4 screenshot. We had mid-gen refreshes in both the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, so there was already a stepping stone between last gen and this gen. This gen we will likely get another mid-gen refresh (rumored to be next year), before PS6 and Xbox whatever touch down.

We have also had the concept of graphics settings for eons - PC typically gets your 'ultra' experience while consoles get the high or even lower experience much of the time. It's more likely the target for Cyberpunk, as evidenced in all the gameplay demos, were done using ultra 4K PC assets, while the assets that wound up on PS4 were just the lowest possible iteration of each setting they could get away, with while still running okay.

In the future we may get a Pathtraced SKU and a Lumen Equivalent SKU

 

[CGNoire]

ps4 assets guys pack it up

freaking path tracing...

This upgrade def make the game next gen but dude Im litterally playing Hitman 2 on and it has objects all over the place with just as high a polycount as that scope id wager the characters are similar too. Yes its 100% ps4 assets.

 

[SlimySnake]

Just tried it. It definitely looks amazing and the fact that i can run it at all on a 3080 is nothing short of mind blowing, but turning off path tracing and comparing it to psycho settings or even standard rasterization, its obvious that most of the wow factor comes from the game's environmental design. Most of the time turning on path tracing produced a more vibrant image as the neon lights accurately illuminated the environment. The standard rasterization feels a bit too washed out in comparison but psycho comes very close.

Still funny to see the framerate jump from 33 to 62 and then a locked 120 fps with room to spare. Basically the cost of path tracing is 4-4.5x. I dont know if these images look 4-5x better.

P.S Is it just my GPU or does the game have a lot more pop-in during driving in the RT modes? And I dont mean texture pop in. Everything from cars to traffic lights to NPCs and other environmental detail just pops in like im playing gta4. It's almost like the vram doesnt even have lower LOD versions of those objects and they are loading them in straight from the ssd.

 

[Crayon]

Looks awesome. Very expensive tho.

Nice to have a crysis situation going on again. Fun. Someday all games will have this.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Raytracing Overdrive Path tracing Optimizations (2.0 compatible)

Path Tracing/Ray Tracing Overdrive Optimizations! Fully compatible with 2.0+! Grab some almost free fpsTM!

www.nexusmods.com

Reduces the light bounces to 1 instead of 2. I will likely use this mod. Vid on it:

 

[CGNoire]

It's great but I get what you're saying about the lighting. Keep in mind this game wasn't made with RT as a baseline and had to be catered for the consoles. It's still the best graphical showcase ever.

If we can get a game designed better to accommodate things getting dark but should have to accept that if a scene is dark and at night then you would have little to no visibility. Careful what you ask for because there's no getting around how realistic this game is rendering and if it's too dark, so is real life.

Performance going down is expected running this level of rendering.

This is a great thing to see and pushes even the best hardware but we need to continue to see this and not lose the sense of wonder when we see these new visual benchmarks.

Yep. The New Crysis.

I cant wait till my Dishwasher can run this in 2050.

 

[UnNamed]

Path Tracing makes you feel Lumen is already old. Since PT is meant to be used with upscaling techniques like DLSS, so its weightiness becomes almost meaningful.

BUT,

first, current gen consoles would probably have struggles to run PT. For now PT doesn't seem to be very good with FSR. Also PT will not run in devices like handhelds and low spec PC, so Lumen will be the best choice in most of the cases;

second, I don't know if Path Tracing is affected or works with high density geometry, for example you have more geometry, so more bounces, so PT may become more heavy. This while Lumens already works with Nanite. Cyberpunk has lot of geometry but it's not comparable with what UE5 can do. Based on what I've read, PT doesn't fully work with Nanite but just with semplified meshes of it, and maybe there is a reason behind it.

 

[CGNoire]

Looks awesome. Very expensive tho.

Nice to have a crysis situation going on again. Fun. Someday all games will have this.

The balls in your court now Crytek.

 

[Denton]

raster

pathtracer

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

The mods finally got patched and I finally got to try out the RT Overdrive Patch in ultra 4K settings on my RTX 4090. I'm very happy with the gameplay performance as well as the graphical enhancements to the game.

It looks and plays unbelievably good now even with mods installed.

 

[Senua]

The mods finally got patched and I finally got to try out the RT Overdrive Patch in ultra 4K settings on my RTX 4090. I'm very happy with the gameplay performance as well as the graphical enhancements to the game.

It looks and plays unbelievably good now even with mods installed.

Pathtraced butt cracks, what a time to be alive!

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Pathtraced butt cracks, what a time to be alive!

Indeed

All the improvements in graphics technology have led us up to this point and it's glorious lol.

 

[Buggy Loop]

is it worth it to run dlss quality at 4k?

If he can, why not?

The mods finally got patched and I finally got to try out the RT Overdrive Patch in ultra 4K settings on my RTX 4090. I'm very happy with the gameplay performance as well as the graphical enhancements to the game.

It looks and plays unbelievably good now even with mods installed.

Digital foundry ZOOM 800%