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[Gaiff]

Uncharted 4 on the PS5 runs at 100fps+, but according to Elanalistadebits only at 1080p 120fps. That would explain why TLOU2 on the PE5 has much worse performance, because it's running at higher resolution.

It's actually closer to 120fps at 1080p. In the most intense sections, it's 80fps+ and in others, 100fps+ at 1440p.



Anyway, we'll have to wait for a more thorough analysis from NxGamer I guess. He does side by side and those are the best comparisons. Alex doesn't even do like for like scenarios, so it's hard to tell what the real differential is. The RX 6800 does run signifcantly faster than the PS5's GPU in Uncharted though (with a better CPU and faster memory). Looks like it falls behind in TLOUII, but I'm not sure. Need to wait for a proper benchmark.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

It's actually closer to 120fps at 1080p. In the most intense sections, it's 80fps+ and in others, 100fps+ at 1440p.

1440p performance mode runs at 80-85fps in this video, but Nxgamer only showed gameplay on the rooftops in that performance mode. I think framerate would drop into 70fps territoty in areas with foliage. You wrote that TLOU2 runs at 70-80fps on the PS5, and that's not much worse performance, if not the same.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

The RX 6800 does run signifcantly faster than the PS5's GPU in Uncharted though (with a better CPU and faster memory). Looks like it falls behind in TLOUII, but I'm not sure. Need to wait for a proper benchmark.

The RX 6800 should be comparable to a PS5Pro GPU. The standard PS5 is more comparable to the RX6700, but I could only find 6700XT gameplay. The game runs at 80-90fps on the 6700XT, but this card is 3TF faster than the PS5.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Wow, Alex got defensive? Who would have guessed it. To be fair Dictator's disinformation book is quite thick, that's just another line to be added.

But you also have *other* transformational performance enhancements that can be added but probably are not added because of Budget and time table reasons. These Ports are done with minimal resources for Maximum ROI. For example: How is culling done? Is it using mesh shaders which GPUs have had on PC since 2018?

No, they won't add that even if it could greatly boost triangle throughput and perf.

You can tell so much by the things he says.

Again, he's angry that a 5 year old game being sold for not 70 but 50 dollars didn't have significant PC level enhancements. Like I said before he's angry that Sony is using PC as an ATM as opposed to pushing PC or making it their priority. The guy can't be taken seriously as a result. At 50 dollars this might as well be a AA game, but he's reviewing it as a 2025 AAA game. Make that make sense.

 

[Gaiff]

1440p performance mode runs at 80-85fps in this video, but Nxgamer only showed gameplay on the rooftops in that performance mode. I think framerate would drop into 70fps territoty in areas with foliage. You wrote that TLOU2 runs at 70-80fps on the PS5, and that's not much worse performance, if not the same.

This video is deliberately the most intense section in the game with rain and a lot of explosions.



"The Uncharted games generally run at 90-110fps." TLOU2 as far as I'm aware never really reaches those levels of performance. That's in performance unlocked mode at 1440p, not performance+ at 1080p. The absolute busiest sections will run at around 80-85fps. NxGamer did a benchmark of the car chase and got an average of 86fps and that's one of the most intense parts of the game.

 

[Clear]

The reason why I rate NXGamer's stuff above DF is that in his videos he demonstrates a diagnostic process based in an understanding of how the technology works.
He's not just a monkey flipping switches and moving sliders in order to produce a certain result, he explains why disabling ReBar is beneficial under certain circumstances and what the trade-offs are.

There's actual thought into where the stress-points in the render chain are, and how to alleviate issues there, as opposed to basement-level analysis where its just binned off as sub-optimal.
The former is helpful and informative, the latter just isn't. Its useful for generating conversation but its not helpful, particularly to enthusiasts.

Lastly, is Michael always going to be right? Hell, no! Like everyone else outside the engine team a lot of his observations are going to be speculative and liable to error. BUT, given that his assumptions are arrived at through rationale, based on a fundamental appreciation of how these complex programs work at the low level, its likely to be more accurate than impressions arrived at solely through benchmarking.

Because the problem with that methodology is that when presented with scenarios that diverge from the familiar paradigms, predictions are likely to be wildly incorrect. Which is what we see over and over again with DF.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The reason why I rate NXGamer's stuff above DF is that in his videos he demonstrates a diagnostic process based in an understanding of how the technology works.
He's not just a monkey flipping switches and moving sliders in order to produce a certain result, he explains why disabling ReBar is beneficial under certain circumstances and what the trade-offs are.

There's actual thought into where the stress-points in the render chain are, and how to alleviate issues there, as opposed to basement-level analysis where its just binned off as sub-optimal.
The former is helpful and informative, the latter just isn't. Its useful for generating conversation but its not helpful, particularly to enthusiasts.

Lastly, is Michael always going to be right? Hell, no! Like everyone else outside the engine team a lot of his observations are going to be speculative and liable to error. BUT, given that his assumptions are arrived at through rationale, based on a fundamental appreciation of how these complex programs work at the low level, its likely to be more accurate than impressions arrived at solely through benchmarking.

Because the problem with that methodology is that when presented with scenarios that diverge from the familiar paradigms, predictions are likely to be wildly incorrect. Which is what we see over and over again with DF.

Other than the fact that DF was one of the first major contributors to this type of content and the access they get (because of the views they get), I don't know why anyone takes them seriously anymore. I think people have a hard time recognizing that something they've given a lot of attention to isn't what they thought it was. It's hard to reconcile.

People should be constantly challenging and re-affirming that the sources of information they take in continue to be accurate and consistent.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

This video is deliberately the most intense section in the game with rain and a lot of explosions.



"The Uncharted games generally run at 90-110fps." TLOU2 as far as I'm aware never really reaches those levels of performance. That's in performance unlocked mode at 1440p, not performance+ at 1080p. The absolute busiest sections will run at around 80-85fps. NxGamer did a benchmark of the car chase and got an average of 86fps and that's one of the most intense parts of the game.

I watched digital foundry analysis video you linked and it seems you are correct. The game often goes into 100-110fps territory at 1440p which is surprising given 3TF faster 6700XT has only 80-90fps.

 

[AFBT88]

ReBar on or off?

Of course off, through the MB BIOS.

 

[Gaiff]

Lol, a former UE dev schooled Alex on Beyond3D, but he was very nice.

The most polite "STFU, you don't know what you're taking about" I've ever seen.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Lol, a former UE dev schooled Alex on Beyond3D, but he was very nice.

The most polite "STFU, you don't know what you're taking about" I've ever seen.

Entirely too polite. Obviously don't want to piss him off especially after his veiled threat of not posting on their forum.

It's a 50 dollar game that came out initially in 2020. Why is he talking about enhancements he thinks the game should have gotten as if Nixxes' job isn't porting the game but enhancing it.

Again, it comes down to Alex wanting to be able to show this off against the PS5 Pro and he's angry that he can't really.

I'm glad people are starting to pick up on what Alex and the others are doing. It's actually crazy he wasn't fired after he was shown to be a member of that discord that was actively working on anti Ps5 commentary and how to manipulate forums to reflect that.

 

[NomenNescio]

Lol, a former UE dev schooled Alex on Beyond3D, but he was very nice.

The most polite "STFU, you don't know what you're taking about" I've ever seen.

Why is REEEEE so hot with all the knowledgeable high-profile people posting there? GAF it's where it's at.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why is REEEEE so hot with all the knowledgeable high-profile people posting there? GAF it's where it's at.

No one in the industry is going to post on GAF anymore.

 

[Gaiff]

Why is REEEEE so hot with all the knowledgeable high-profile people posting there? GAF it's where it's at.

That's Beyond3D, but you're right.

No one in the industry is going to post on GAF anymore.

In the current climate, posting on Gaf could sadly be career suicide.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In the current climate, posting on Gaf could sadly be career suicide.

Could have been avoided entirely, but it is what is. I don't think having professional input greatly enhances a forum, though it could have been a bit more interesting.

Developers will post on RE, Mat posts on Installbase...

It is what it is. I think the only thing being missed is the ability to ask someone like Cerny directly, like what is going on with the VRR situation and when can we expect a fix. I'm sure there are still some people lurking for sure, but we won't have that direct engagement moving forward.

 

[CrimsonTide]

FWIW, made a thread on how pleased I am with the way it runs on my Steam Deck.

Genuinely happy with it.

No, I have no idea the amount of rasters or cuda cores its using lol but it plays well and what matters to me is no frame stutters

 

[keefged4]

FWIW, made a thread on how pleased I am with the way it runs on my Steam Deck.

Genuinely happy with it.

No, I have no idea the amount of rasters or cuda cores its using lol but it plays well and what matters to me is no frame stutters

I plan on doing a second playthrough on mine, I have tried it and it looks and plays fantastic on my Oled.

On the desktop side of things, a mixture of me rolling back my Nvidia Drivers to 566.36 and the latest patch has basically eliminated most of the issues I was having, and its now running much, much smoother. Only one crash in the last 5 hours! incredible. Let's try and get that to 0, Nixxes.

 

[CrimsonTide]

I plan on doing a second playthrough on mine, I have tried it and it looks and plays fantastic on my Oled.

On the desktop side of things, a mixture of me rolling back my Nvidia Drivers to 566.36 and the latest patch has basically eliminated most of the issues I was having, and its now running much, much smoother. Only one crash in the last 5 hours! incredible. Let's try and get that to 0, Nixxes.

Played on the Deck maybe 5-6 hours. Not a single crash, bug or hiccup that I recall.

Probably play more tonight after work

 

[Cryio]

Nvidia shill Digital Foundry and especially Alex DF reached critical mass with Last of Us 2 IMO.

His terrible GPU and CPU performance in TLOU2 has been exposed as being an Nvidia issues with ReBar.

If Alex DF would EVER test an AMD GPU also, he'd see the game was not SO GPU heavy or SO GPU bound.

While it's not a flawless port, it's not as bad as he made it to be.

 

[Lysandros]

Lol, a former UE dev schooled Alex on Beyond3D, but he was very nice.

The most polite "STFU, you don't know what you're taking about" I've ever seen.

Yeah Andrew can't really hold himself sometimes and tend to "object" to Alex in such manner but always very carefully and politely. Beyond3d is Dictator's favorite place and he has a very strong following/backing here, from users to mods. Nice to see, but i think he could be a bit more 'direct', he has the required knowledge and authority.

 

[analog_future]

I'm about halfway through, and god damn this game is such a stunner on PC.

Compared to the very best looking games of today (Hellblade II, Alan Wake II, Avatar, Silent Hill 2, Star Wars Outlaws) the baked lighting can show it's limitations, the cube-mapped reflections are a little dated, and there's a few low-res textures here and there, but other than that it looks about as good as any game ever made. The animations, facial realism, and general attention to detail are still comparable to the best looking games out there.


Few more of my shots:

 

[CrimsonTide]

I'm about halfway through, and god damn this game is such a stunner on PC.

Compared to the very best looking games of today (Hellblade II, Alan Wake II, Avatar, Silent Hill 2, Star Wars Outlaws) the baked lighting can show it's limitations, the cube-mapped reflections are a little dated, and there's a few low-res textures here and there, but other than that it looks about as good as any game ever made. The animations, facial realism, and general attention to detail are still comparable to the best looking games out there.


Few more of my shots:

Does it compare to my Steam Deck posts?

 

[CrimsonTide]

Ok LOU2 pro’s

How far am I into the game? Says 7 hours. But I feel I’ve barely began?!
Steam Deck photo btw

 

[3liteDragon]

I'm about halfway through, and god damn this game is such a stunner on PC.

Compared to the very best looking games of today (Hellblade II, Alan Wake II, Avatar, Silent Hill 2, Star Wars Outlaws) the baked lighting can show it's limitations, the cube-mapped reflections are a little dated, and there's a few low-res textures here and there, but other than that it looks about as good as any game ever made. The animations, facial realism, and general attention to detail are still comparable to the best looking games out there.


Few more of my shots:

specs?

 

[Bojji]

Nvidia shill Digital Foundry and especially Alex DF reached critical mass with Last of Us 2 IMO.

His terrible GPU and CPU performance in TLOU2 has been exposed as being an Nvidia issues with ReBar.

If Alex DF would EVER test an AMD GPU also, he'd see the game was not SO GPU heavy or SO GPU bound.

While it's not a flawless port, it's not as bad as he made it to be.

Rebar could be 5xxx series related bug because many people on 4xxx don't see any performance difference.

 

[keefged4]

Rebar could be 5xxx series related bug because many people on 4xxx don't see any performance difference.

I think this may be correct as I don't see a difference with rebar off vs on at bios level, in fact turning rebar off makes the game way more unstable for me at least. I have a 4070.

 

[analog_future]

specs?

9800X3D/RTX 5090/32GB DDR5

Locked 4K/120fps/DLAA

 

[Mibu no ookami]

After lurking and stewing on beyond3d for days, Alex finally responded to criticism only to double down and confirm that this is about Sony and how he feels about Sony porting games to PC without enhancements, again ignoring that this is a 50 dollar game and not a 70 dollar game. He also pushes his grievances about feeling like Sony is treating him like a 2nd class citizen. Again the Steam reviews of TLOUP2 confirm Sony released the game when it was appropriate to release it, another thing Alex never mentions.

I think Spider-Man 2 and Until Dawn released in bad shape. Until Dawn released in bad shape on both console and PC and honestly Spider-Man 2 had a lot of issues on console too for what its worth.

Ghost of Tsushima was hailed as a great port.

It's clear Alex creates narratives in his mind and runs with them.

 

[Gaiff]

After lurking and stewing on beyond3d for days, Alex finally responded to criticism only to double down and confirm that this is about Sony and how he feels about Sony porting games to PC without enhancements, again ignoring that this is a 50 dollar game and not a 70 dollar game. He also pushes his grievances about feeling like Sony is treating him like a 2nd class citizen. Again the Steam reviews of TLOUP2 confirm Sony released the game when it was appropriate to release it, another thing Alex never mentions.

I think Spider-Man 2 and Until Dawn released in bad shape. Until Dawn released in bad shape on both console and PC and honestly Spider-Man 2 had a lot of issues on console too for what its worth.

Ghost of Tsushima was hailed as a great port.

It's clear Alex creates narratives in his mind and runs with them.

He’s right about the quality of the releases and Nixxes not being afforded enough time to release them. They’ve been working at a breakneck pace on those ports since being acquired.

What I wonder is why is Sony such in a hurry to get those ports out. I guess in TLOUII’s case, it was to align with the TV show, but Spider-Man 2?

I also agree with his point about Sony’s games being generally polished. I had a discussion with a friend of mine way back when and we thought the state of the HZD port was surprising given’s Sony’s reputation for quality. We figured it was a first time effort and they may have had miscalculated the challenges of PC ports, but ever since then, the ports have been very hit or miss with seemingly more misses.

I’m not sure why Sony gets those out like they were on a timer. Maybe to beat or meet revenue forecasts? Most of those games are a few years old, so delaying them by a few more months wouldn’t be the end of the world. Although I suppose, it wouldn’t necessarily be more profitable either, so eh.

 

[Zathalus]

The recent port quality has been rather shit. This one appears average, but Spider-Man 2 has had 8 post launch patch updates and still has graphical and performance bugs.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

He’s right about the quality of the releases and Nixxes not being afforded enough time to release them. They’ve been working at a breakneck pace on those ports since being acquired.

What I wonder is why is Sony such in a hurry to get those ports out. I guess in TLOUII’s case, it was to align with the TV show, but Spider-Man 2?

I also agree with his point about Sony’s games being generally polished. I had a discussion with a friend of mine way back when and we thought the state of the HZD port was surprising given’s Sony’s reputation for quality. We figured it was a first time effort and they may have had miscalculated the challenges of PC ports, but ever since then, the ports have been very hit or miss with seemingly more misses.

I’m not sure why Sony gets those out like they were on a timer. Maybe to beat or meet revenue forecasts? Most of those games are a few years old, so delaying them by a few more months wouldn’t be the end of the world. Although I suppose, it wouldn’t necessarily be more profitable either, so eh.

So let's go over a couple things.

Spider-Man 2 was probably rushed because of TLOUP2. Why they had to get it out when they did? Probably due to contracts with Marvel as well as needing revenue for the quarter, could they have delayed the game a month? Probably and they probably should have, because it resulted in reputational damage. That being said, most of Nixxes ports have been high quality and despite coming in late to fix TLOUP2, it seems like this was a good quality port as well.

Sony has released two big games in questionable states recently: Spider-Man 2 and TLOUP1. I'm not sure that's enough for Alex and others to harp on. Both games are also getting positive reviews now.

His complaints are because he's a platform warrior, once again, not taking into account that this is a 50 dollar game is a big omission here. If they went back to the pipeline and added new technology to the engine and assets and decided to charge 70, people would be saying, how is this game from 2020 going to cost 70 dollars especially with the PS5 version much cheaper. People will always find a way to complain when they want to complain.

His primary complaint is that the port doesn't outshine the PS5 Pro and that shouldn't have anything to do with it.

I agree that Spider-Man 2 should have been delayed and I would love to hear a post mortem on the games PC release, though I doubt we'll ever get one, but seemingly pretending like Ghost and Forbidden West weren't really good ports seems silly and hypocritical. TLOUP2's reception clearly puts it closer to those than Spider-Man 2.

And of course one of the key elements of these ports is that they be profitable and meet their project deadlines in order to do so. Shuhei described this as an ATM and I'm sure that pisses Alex off, that PC is an afterthought for Sony.

 

[AFBT88]

I dont know why, but most of Sony ports don't scale well above 60 fps, im not talking about TLOU PII, but overall most of their game dont run well above 60 fps. Like some sort of bottleneck always makes it very very hard to hit 90-100+ fps. So if i have problems with their ports, i lock them to 60fps and it's usually smooth sailing. Happened with Part 1, Ratchet and God of War 2018. Sure i could hit 90-100 fps in those games, but there were always stutters and fps drops and by locking them to 60fps i was able to enjoy them much more.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

That being said, most of Nixxes ports have been high quality and despite coming in late to fix TLOUP2, it seems like this was a good quality port as well.

TLOU2 a good quality port? The hatred for Alex Battaglia blinds you. The resource allocation in this port is clearly broken, and that alone makes your opinion completely invalid. When the game starts compiling shaders in the background, my CPU hits the thermal limit (not even TLOU1 does this) and the framerate drops from 160-200fps to 80-100fps and starts stuttering without the 60fps famerate lock. During that shader compilation turning on DLSS Quality and DLSS FG barely improves framerate. If resources would be allocated correctly there should be 3x framerate increase by using these two DLSS settings.

Spiderman 2 is more demanding at maxed out settings, but resource allocation wasnt broken and I could easily get over 200fps with simple tweaks. I used high RT preset instead of ultimate RT, and turned off ray reconstruction to remove lighting glitches. My 7800X3D wasnt hitting thermal limit, and DLSS was scaling correctly.

 

[12Goblins]

Anybody know why I can't play this in windowed mode? When I try, it locks me in at a lower resolution and will not fill up the screen (goes from 1440 -> 1080 and won't let me change it)

 

[AFBT88]

TLOU2 a good quality port? The hatred for Alex Battaglia blinds you. The resource allocation in this port is clearly broken, and that alone makes your opinion completely invalid. When the game starts compiling shaders in the background, my CPU hits the thermal limit (not even TLOU1 does this) and the framerate drops from 160-200fps to 80-100fps and starts stuttering without the 60fps famerate lock. During that shader compilation turning on DLSS Quality and DLSS FG barely improves framerate. If resources would be allocated correctly there should be 3x framerate increase by using these two DLSS settings.

Spiderman 2 is more demanding at maxed out settings, but resource allocation wasnt broken and I could easily get over 200fps with simple tweaks. I used high RT preset instead of ultimate RT, and turned off ray reconstruction to remove lighting glitches. My 7800X3D wasnt hitting thermal limit, and DLSS was scaling correctly.

I think the only big problem with TLOU2 port is the way it does shader compilation. If it did precompiled shader in the menu, you would've gotten 150-200 all the time. The fact that it stutters or DLSS doesn't increase your FPS is all about being CPU limited during shader compilation process. Im sure they will add the option to do that in the menu in future updates.

Spiderman 2 on the other hand was garbage tier at launch, it's much better now though.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

I think the only big problem with TLOU2 port is the way it does shader compilation. If it did precompiled shader in the menu, you would've gotten 150-200 all the time. The fact that it stutters or DLSS doesn't increase your FPS is all about being CPU limited during shader compilation process. Im sure they will add the option to do that in the menu in future updates.

Spiderman 2 on the other hand was garbage tier at launch, it's much better now though.

This would be nice, as I would rather wait a bit during the initial shader precompilation process than see such huge frame rate fluctuations and stutters during gameplay. Nixxes ports may be rushed, but they usually fix the problems.

I dont know why, but most of Sony ports don't scale well above 60 fps, im not talking about TLOU PII, but overall most of their game dont run well above 60 fps. Like some sort of bottleneck always makes it very very hard to hit 90-100+ fps. So if i have problems with their ports, i lock them to 60fps and it's usually smooth sailing. Happened with Part 1, Ratchet and God of War 2018. Sure i could hit 90-100 fps in those games, but there were always stutters and fps drops and by locking them to 60fps i was able to enjoy them much more.

God of War 2018 was a good port. Even my old 3770K CPU (2012) could run this game at 60fps. I recently replayed God Of War on my current 7800X3D and the game ran at a locked 170fps without stuttering.

 

[dEvAnGeL]

was DLSS4 silently added with the patch? I checked the patch notes and see no mention of it. However when checking with DLSS Swapper it shows the game is running the last version of DLSS, 310.2.1

 

[dgrdsv]

was DLSS4 silently added with the patch? I checked the patch notes and see no mention of it. However when checking with DLSS Swapper it shows the game is running the last version of DLSS, 310.2.1

DLSS DLLs were changed in patch 1.1: https://steamdb.info/patchnotes/18060444/
So they probably were updated to the latest public versions.
But note that using the latest DLLs by itself doesn't mean that the game is using "DLSS4" as they have all DLSS models going back to v2.1 (or thereabouts) and which models the game is using depends on what the game is asking from these DLLs.
There are several games now which still use the older "DLSS3" CNN models C/D/E/F despite shipping with the latest "DLSS4" DLLs.