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[samoilaaa]

It looks like the immersive sims genre is slowly becoming as niche as the racing games genre and i dont understand why

prey was a good game yet it sold poor , the 2 deus ex games were very good yet they sold poor , the 2 dishonored games were very good yet they sold poor , even if the games are highly rated they still arnt as popular as 3rd person cinematic games

its funny because immersive sims repects your freedom and intelect way more than linear 3rd person cinematic games , they give you options to approach the missions the way you like , they give you multiple solutions to a problem so if ur not good at one thing no problem you can solve it another way , it makes you use ur imagination and creativity

and i can see the same thing happening to the rpg genre , slowly the only games that will exist will be GAAS , 3rd person action adventure games and FPS , maybe sports games too

 

[01011001]

people play dumbed down mainstream fodder... even people that consider themselves to be core gamers barely play anything but the most mainstream and casual friendly games.

immersive sims are complex and not that easy to get into, I should know, I ignored them for the longest time.
it's like asking why Prog Metal isn't more popular but Imagine Dragons is, it's just harder to get into and also not as easy to get exposed to through normal means due to the niche status the genre has

 

[Ben87fr]

Love them, reminds me it's been 6 years since the last Deus Ex... Fuck we'll never get the end of Adam Jensen's story

 

[remember_spinal]

I’m still not 100% what an immersive sim is outside of prey

 

[01011001]

I’m still not 100% what an immersive sim is outside of prey

Deus Ex, System Shock, Ultima, Thief...

Deathloop and Dishonored are basically Immersive Sim Lights, stripped down with Immersive Sim design philosophies sprinkled in

 

[brian0057]

I love the games, I hate the term. It makes no sense.
Thief isn't an "immersive sim", it's a stealth game.
Deus Ex isn't an "immersive sim", it's an RPG.
System Shock isn't an "immersive sim", it's a horror game.

I call them Looking Glass games or Looking Glass inspired. Or in the case of Prey (2017), a rip-off.

 

[remember_spinal]

Deus Ex, System Shock, Ultima, Thief...

Deathloop and Dishonored are basically Immersive Sim Lights, stripped down with Immersive Sim design philosophies sprinkled in

So PC games mostly

 

[Rykan]

I’m still not 100% what an immersive sim is outside of prey

It's basically yet another example of a poorly named genre. The "idea" behind it is that you have a large amount of interaction with the game world itself, like being able to interact with a lot of objects, different approaches to completing objectives etc. Supposedly, this leads to more "immersion" and thus the term immersion sim was coined.

I think most of these games can just fit under a different genre and it would work more effectively.

 

[samoilaaa]

Love them, reminds me it's been 6 years since the last Deus Ex... Fuck we'll never get the end of Adam Jensen's story

maybe embracer will give a proper chance to the ip

 

[drganon]

I liked the one deus ex game I've played, but haven't liked any of arcane's games.

 

[Jennings]

I never considered any of those games as simulations. Now I don't even know what fits in the genre, let alone if I hate the genre or not. I love Deus Ex 1, 3 and 4. Prey and Dishonored are a collective a pile of wretched shit.

Maybe Thief counts? I absolutely loved the first couple games, but the most recent reboot can be lumped in with modern Prey and Dishonored.

 

[01011001]

So PC games mostly

well yes, the mouse and keyboard configuration just lends itself to this genre way more than a controller.

you often have deep menus, small objects to pick up and move around by aiming at them (which can be finicky if the aiming on controller isn't top notch)

also back in the day, more complex genres in general were more at home on PC, and consoles were more the arcady and action type of system

 

[IDKFA]

I always thought an immersive sim was something like Train Simulator.

My username is appropriate.

 

[01011001]

Prey and Dishonored are a collective a pile of wretched shit.

someone call the police, this dude commited crimes against good taste

 

[Robb]

If “immersive sim” includes games like Dishonored and Deus Ex I love it.

 

[64bitmodels]

i have never played any of them. i have system shock in my steam library though.

 

[adamsapple]

Prey and Dishonored are a collective a pile of wretched shit.

the fuck ..

 

[samoilaaa]

I never considered any of those games as simulations. Now I don't even know what fits in the genre, let alone if I hate the genre or not. I love Deus Ex 1, 3 and 4. Prey and Dishonored are a collective a pile of wretched shit.

Maybe Thief counts? I absolutely loved the first couple games, but the most recent reboot can be lumped in with modern Prey and Dishonored.

thief definetly counts , its one of the first game that defines the genre

 

[01011001]

If “immersive sim” includes games like Dishonored and Deus Ex I love it.

Dishonored kinda... it's a simplified cousin.
Deus Ex yes...

 

[Freeman76]

I used to until I found Hunter: Call of the wild.

Finding rare animals and trophies is sooooo addictive!

 

[samoilaaa]

I always thought an immersive sim was something like Train Simulator.

My username is appropriate.

well yeah technically deus ex and prey are an rpg , dishonored and thief are stealth adventure games

the immersive sim name was added to games that lets you make the game world your playground , travers it and get to your objective the way you want

 

[64bitmodels]

actually this is going to sound kind of dumb, but what's the difference between something like deus ex and the elder scrolls that makes the former a sim and the latter an RPG?

 

[kuncol02]

It looks like the immersive sims genre is slowly becoming as niche as the racing games genre and i dont understand why

prey was a good game yet it sold poor , the 2 deus ex games were very good yet they sold poor , the 2 dishonored games were very good yet they sold poor , even if the games are highly rated they still arnt as popular as 3rd person cinematic games

its funny because immersive sims repects your freedom and intelect way more than linear 3rd person cinematic games , they give you options to approach the missions the way you like , they give you multiple solutions to a problem so if ur not good at one thing no problem you can solve it another way , it makes you use ur imagination and creativity

and i can see the same thing happening to the rpg genre , slowly the only games that will exist will be GAAS , 3rd person action adventure games and FPS , maybe sports games too

Becoming? Immersive sims always were niche of all niches. You could count important releases from last 20 years on fingers of clumsy woodworker.

 

[Topher]

Sim is short for "simulation"? I don't typically consider the type of games being discussed as simulations.

 

[remember_spinal]

So essentially any game from a first person perspective thats not a straight up shooter is an immersive sim

 

[Aion002]

Those aren't sim games...

Anyway, I don't hate them, but they hate me. All these games you mentioned have low fov, head bobbing, camera shake and other issues that gives me so much motion sickness that makes me want to bash my head against a wall while playing (on consoles).

I wanna play them, but the devs don't want me to and the only thing I can say to them is:

 

[Meicyn]

Elite Dangerous in VR is an excellent case for an immersive sim. Flying into a space station while in the cockpit of a significantly smaller spacecraft is… certainly an experience unlike any other.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Blame the new generation of gamers. They are too dumb to appreciate quality-level design and mechanics. They prefer just a huge map to go from point A to point B. I mean even Elden Ring is specifically catered to these dumb kids. I can vouch that more than half of ER players would have no idea what to do if there were no guides at all online nor would they be able to handle Dark Souls since it has no map or anything. Most immersive sims while they allow for combat scenarios, they do also require patience, which lets be real, none of these dumbasses have.

 

[hemo memo]

I tried to google immersive sim and read and still can’t figure out what it means. Why is it different than action adventure? Uncharted could be an immersive sim? It needs to be first person? What is the criteria for immersive sims?

 

[intbal]

My favorite immersive sim:

Yes it is.
Shut up.

 

[Meicyn]

Just to further the point on Elite Dangerous:

 

[TintoConCasera]

They are games for the thinking man, not for the average joe, so they tend to sell quite less than other kinda games.

They also involve complicated systems and are harder to develop than the average game, so maybe that's another reason why we don't see many games like those.

 

[brian0057]

but the most recent reboot can be lumped in with modern Prey and Dishonored.

Yes.

 

[Superkewl]

Those aren't sim games. Sim games are like flight simulator, train simulator, goat simulator, etc...

 

[T4keD0wN]

Its easily my favourite genre. Not only are they are really difficult to make, they are very high risk and offer low reward. Most studios lack the talent to pull it off and they likely can get better return on investment elsewhere. Although next year could be pretty great for them.
If i was running a publishing or game developing company id avoid immersive sims too.

Simulators on the other hand can be both low quality and super agressive with monetization. Thats why theres so many of them.

 

[Juza]

I love the games, I hate the term. It makes no sense.
Thief isn't an "immersive sim", it's a stealth game.
Deus Ex isn't an "immersive sim", it's an RPG.
System Shock isn't an "immersive sim", it's a horror game.

I call them Looking Glass games or Looking Glass inspired. Or in the case of Prey (2017), a rip-off.

Immersive sims have nothing to do with the game genre!
It's design decisions, the ultimate freedom for you to choose how to explore the game, how to progress in it, how to finish your mission in the way you want, how to realistically interact with the objects around you and take advantage of them, these games often understand even the weirdest decision you could make, so it becomes so immersive.

And the person who called it "immersive sim" is the one who invented this kind of formula.

 

[tommib]

So essentially any game from a first person perspective thats not a straight up shooter is an immersive sim

Yes, Gone Home is an immersive sim… Terrible generalisation.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

First time I've even heard of this term, and doing some research it seems like a terrible name; none of those games are "sims".

 

[Henry Panic]

actually this is going to sound kind of dumb, but what's the difference between something like deus ex and the elder scrolls that makes the former a sim and the latter an RPG?

Bethesda not calling their RPGs sims.

Funny tho, Elder Scrolls was inspired by Ultima Underworld, by the same studio who created the immersive sim genre.

 

[Denton]

"immersive sim" is more of a design philosophy than a genre. TES games and e.g. Kingdom Come Deliverance are open world RPGs, but they have some of that immersive sim DNA in them for sure.

Deus Ex is one of the best games ever made so no I do not hate immersive sims.

 

[brian0057]

Immersive sims have nothing to do with the game genre!
It's design decisions, the ultimate freedom for you to choose how to explore the game, how to progress in it, how to finish your mission in the way you want, how to realistically interact with the objects around you and take advantage of them, these games often understand even the weirdest decision you could make, so it becomes so immersive.

And the person who called it "immersive sim" is the one who invented this kind of formula.

Yeah, none of what you just said made any sense.
By that logic, Breath of the Wild, Minecraft, and Space Engineers are "immersive sims", which they're not.
Immersion is subjective and none of the games mentioned by either of us are "simulations".

It's a stupid name and saying that it's a valid term because the creator said so is like saying .GIF is pronounced "JIF" because the creator said so.
They should stick to tech and software. Clearly, English isn't their forte.

 

[samoilaaa]

"immersive sim" is more of a design philosophy than a genre. TES games and e.g. Kingdom Come Deliverance are open world RPGs, but they have some of that immersive sim DNA in them for sure.

Deus Ex is one of the best games ever made so no I do not hate immersive sims.

deus ex has everything i like , a mature interesting story , gameplay with alot of exploration freedom that is actually rewarding , interesting characters

if embracer doesnt want to make a sequel i hope they at least remake the 1st game , people that didnt get to play it because its too old deserve to experience it

 

[Fbh]

They should find a different name for the genre because every single discussion I've seen about them on GAF always devolves into people arguing about what is an isn't an "immersive sim" and if the name makes sense or not.

Anyway, I love Deus Ex. I really like the freedom and flexibility it offers in how you explore the environments and achieve your objectives. I love how sometimes it feels like I'm breaking the game by, for example, spending 5 minutes stacking boxes to then jump on them and use as a platform to reach a higher location, but it's actually part of the intended experience and only one of multiple ways to reach that same location. It actually makes me feel like I'm interacting with the world and finding solutions on my own instead of being guided towards a bunch of highlighted ledges like in 90% of other games.

The Arkane games are pretty good too, I liked Prey in particular a lot though towards the end it got a bit annoying with all the backtracking. I just find their art direction and worlds a bit off putting. Can't really put my finger on why but when I see their worlds and characters I don't find them as engaging as stuff like Deus Ex and Bioshock

 

[Drizzlehell]

No, it's my favorite genre of games. They represent pretty much everything that I would expect a video game to be - an interactive experience with a highly detailed, reactive, and fully realized game world and a set of specific objectives and obstacles, where you have the freedom to complete them in a number of different ways using various tools at your disposal. The more creative the game allows you to be with solving problems, the better.

 

[CatLady]

It looks like the immersive sims genre is slowly becoming as niche as the racing games genre and i dont understand why

prey was a good game yet it sold poor , the 2 deus ex games were very good yet they sold poor , the 2 dishonored games were very good yet they sold poor , even if the games are highly rated they still arnt as popular as 3rd person cinematic games

its funny because immersive sims repects your freedom and intelect way more than linear 3rd person cinematic games , they give you options to approach the missions the way you like , they give you multiple solutions to a problem so if ur not good at one thing no problem you can solve it another way , it makes you use ur imagination and creativity

and i can see the same thing happening to the rpg genre , slowly the only games that will exist will be GAAS , 3rd person action adventure games and FPS , maybe sports games too

I love them and you just named some of my favorite games. I personally love non-linear, narrative games, but it needs to be GREAT narrative with lots of engaging gameplay and options.

I have zero interest in linear games that emphasize graphics over everything else, games with simple, boring stories and more cutscenes than actual gameplay, games made to appeal to the hordes of casuals.

 

[Mossybrew]

I love the games, I hate the term. It makes no sense.

Yeah, this, it's an incredibly poor name for a genre. I find them no more immersive than any other game and I think "sim" is a huge stretch. I like that they present options for approaching scenarios but let's be real, you usually have like 2-3 choices and before the game is half over all the "choices" have become entirely predictable and boring. Oh, I'm going to hack my way in here. Oh, I'm going to creep through a duct here. Oh, I'll just kill 'em all.

 

[Fuz]

I love the games, I hate the term. It makes no sense.
Thief isn't an "immersive sim", it's a stealth game.
Deus Ex isn't an "immersive sim", it's an RPG.
System Shock isn't an "immersive sim", it's a horror game.

I call them Looking Glass games or Looking Glass inspired. Or in the case of Prey (2017), a rip-off.

This 100%.

"Immersive sim" means jackshit.

 

[ReBurn]

I don't hate immersive sims. I greatly dislike games that feel like work, though.

I feel like it's probably a tough balance between creating a feeling of freedom to progress through the world as you want against creating a world you have to overthink every roadblock to slog your way through. Or copping out and creating a few canned ways to progress that are thinly veiled illusions of freedom. Most games don't get it right.

Dishonored was a good one but I didn't finish it. Most of them are first person so I can't get into them.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Could Hitman be considered an "immersive sim"?

 

[samoilaaa]

Could Hitman be considered an "immersive sim"?

yeah , i dont see why not , it follows the same principles