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ChorizoPicozo
Member
and the game should know that.
And that is the issue. One of the main criticisms of this game is its superficial combat, unremarkable dialogue options/tree, and simplistic puzzles.
So, where are the options to improve all the above? If such options exist, you'll constantly find yourself going to the menu to adjust them in order to "enjoy" the game... more like finding an easy way through difficult parts or cheese the system
Freeman76
Member
FF16 is the game in your example
Raven117
Member
Right. The “relationship” stuff has always been in Dragon Age. Totally fine as it was wrapped in gritty grimdark story with plenty of other story beats, character arcs, and consequences that matter.
They gutting this vibe in favor of a Saturday morning cartoon. (The infantilization of young people is a whole other matter… one that honestly should be discussed with Dragon Age just as much as any “DEI”)
That’s the fucking point. It’s not about inclusion of “DEI” it’s about the whole package that all seems to suffer for this inclusion.
Another thing what I find funny. For all of this artstyle and purple that seems to be permeating everything…. Along comes the annual Call of Duty. It’s as basic dudebro as it comes. Almost shocking so in this environment. And ya know what? It sells a fuck ton of copies and is actually a lot of fun.
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Sorry, this is one of the stupidest things that was in this topic. You compare completely different genres and two different schools of RPG creation, RPG as a genre in the West and in Asia developed according to different canons and have different standards and structure of construction. Although recently the Japanese have been trying to copy pieces of Western RPGs, sometimes successfully, sometimes not so much.
I would never compare, say, BG3 and Witcher with , Final Fantasy or Metaphor, These are two completely different genres that exist separately from each other.
Well, these are just your expectations, we now understand perfectly well that this is just an adventure with light RPG elements. But the problem is that BioWare itself thinks that this is an RPG and if you go to the site, you will see on the first banner: "Unite the Veilguard and defy the gods in an immersive single-player RPG." Therefore, we will consider this game as an Immersive RPG, because this is how the developer himself positions the game. And given the rich history, the huge lore of the game that was created over the course of 3 games, and the long development cycle that took 10 years, there are certain expectations for the game and certain questions.
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thegame983
Member
It really is a shame that the latest Bioware Dragon Age game is unpurchasable.
Neolombax
Member
...Haldir? What happened to you?
I remember buying DA Origins for PS3, and just giving it the biggest benefit of the doubt because it looked so shit on consoles, even back then. Turned out to be one of the best games I've played. I cannot take people seriously when they say Bioware is back, not even a fraction of it. Its a good game so far, but it isn't old Bioware good.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
No one ever had issues or needed toggles up until this gen. It’s really the gen of options. Too many of them. Sad fucking shit.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Not really. I'm comparing an action adventure game with rpg mechanics with actual rpgs. The latter should be better in regards to your post but it's just as bad, sometimes even worse. I'm not comparing their mechanics, we're just talking about worldbuilding, in which case my point stands. Just because it's jrpg it doesnt excuse their lack of cool hubs/cities.
You absolutely can in certain aspects. You just dont want to because you have huge biases over jrpgs.
My expectations? They never said they were making a crpg. Most people knew what they were making considering where the franchise went in the last years. A return to form was possible, sure, but very unlikely after what they made recently. Common sense.
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The problem is that this is not an action adventure, this is an RPG, according to the developers themselves. I honestly don't know anyone who would compare Western and Eastern RPGs in their right mind, these are two completely different schools, and both genres have their own fans, some like the Western style more, some prefer the Eastern. But it would never occur to anyone, even to the crazy press, to compare them, since these are completely different genres.
No, I can easily play and complete both RPG styles and I can differentiate between them, I like some things in one and some in the other. Both have their downsides. For example, I'm now replaying Kingdom Come Deliverence to refresh my memory before the second part comes out. I like both RPG styles equally, and to be honest, I grew up on the Western style on Black Isle Studio games (Ice Wind Dale, Fallout 1-2, Baldur's Gate, etc.), I discover the JRPG genre for myself, thanks to the fact that at that time the Final Fantasy series began to rapidly gain popularity in the West and I got into this genre.
Well, go to Google, read their interview and listen to what EA CEO said - "During the conversation, Wilson emphasized that BioWare "has rallied around what made BioWare a fan-favorite studio," singling out the studio's talent for putting out a killer combo of immersive worlds, deep characters that mesh well with each other, and strong storytelling." Or Bioware creative director John Epler - “We’re a studio built to make single-player RPGs,” Epler says. “And more importantly, I think a lot of people have come here to build single-player, story based RPGs. So, it just kind of ended up making more sense to make this game the way it is versus a multiplayer game.” Even on the official website, on the main page, the game is designated as: "Unite the Veilguard and defy the gods in an immersive single-player RPG." as an immersive RPG. And believe me, they really believe that they made an RPG and their original plan was exactly an RPG. And the fact that later the players themselves began to classifyas an Adventure game is a common sense of the players themselves, there is no merit of BioWare or EA in this. The way the game turned out is how BioWare now sees the RPG genre and its development. And this is not only a problem for BioWare, it is a problem for RPGs as a genre in the industry as a whole, including even Japan, where for many years now Square Enix has been trying to finish off the Final Fantasy series with its feet in the same way.
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The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
I dont think what the CEO of EA says is anything but bs, just like....all CEOs. It may have started as an rpg but clearly their focus and silence on the game for the last years changed. Or maybe its because I knew since I had a friend who was in the testing team 1-2 years prior to its release. Either way after Andromeda, Anthem, etc. my expectations for Bioware were low/mid hence why I have no issues with the game. I mean, not huge hate, cuz the game does have issues, but its certainly not a bad game as gaf makes it out to be. It deserves it's 75% steam reviews just like Andromeda did.
I just don't understand what you're trying to achieve. I understand perfectly well that this is not an RPG. I wrote about this right away in one of the first messages and I think all adequate people who have at least some experience in this genre understand that this is not an RPG. This is a general trend in the industry - we are going down the path of degradation and simplification of game genres, and I don't see any prerequisites for this to stop in the near future. We will still rarely get old-school RPGs, but the main mainstream movement will be in this style.
And believe me, I hope that I didn't offend you because I definitely didn't want that. But what you wrote is about the same as standing in front of a store with a sign that says Meat, pointing to its window and saying that this is a store that sells Candies. Unfortunately, to my great regret, this is how BioWare now sees the development of the RPG genre and it upsets and I would even say scares. And the fact that this game is positioned as an immersive single-player RPG and, most importantly, is being marketed as an immersive single-player RPG is very upsetting.
PeteBull
Member
DD2 had attractive females in game and no woke shit, and it is an rpg, and it didnt alienate half of its loyal fanbase, big difference vs newest DA
It got many patches by now so both bug and performance wise its much improved after launch, couple that with nice discounts and u got the picture- it is simply cheaper and much higher quality experience.
Oh and look at DD2 char creator, u can actually create sexy pawn aka ur sidekick
And i might be bit biased since i love berserk manga/anime(as u can guess by my profile pic) but u can even create GutS no probs:
Try this stuff in DA:V and u simply cant/arrent allowed to even.
Joel Was Right
Member
DD2 had attractive females in game and no woke shit, and it is an rpg, and it didnt alienate half of its loyal fanbase, big difference vs newest DA
It got many patches by now so both bug and performance wise its much improved after launch, couple that with nice discounts and u got the picture- it is simply cheaper and much higher quality experience.
Oh and look at DD2 char creator, u can actually create sexy pawn aka ur sidekick
How old are you if you don't mind me asking?
xenosys
Member
I'm surprised the overall OC review score hasn't yet been affected by these. It's been sitting at 82 for most of the weekend.
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Madflavor
Member
Yeah me too. It absolutely should've dropped at least a point by now.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
DD2 had attractive females in game and no woke shit, and it is an rpg, and it didnt alienate half of its loyal fanbase, big difference vs newest DA
It got many patches by now so both bug and performance wise its much improved after launch, couple that with nice discounts and u got the picture- it is simply cheaper and much higher quality experience.
Oh and look at DD2 char creator, u can actually create sexy pawn aka ur sidekick
And i might be bit biased since i love berserk manga/anime(as u can guess by my profile pic) but u can even create GutS no probs:
Try this stuff in DA:V and u simply cant/arrent allowed to even.
Oh look a character creator that actually allows you to create a woman and another that only allows you to make a dude or a dudewoman...
manlisten
Member
This video really nails the core issues i have this with game and really most big studio western games these days. Horizon has this issue. The Spider Man games have this issue. Starfield (!!!). They treat the player like an idiot and it's completely immersion breaking. And the characters are all way too fucking polite.
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And what surprises us in this? Everything that happens happens for one reason or another. The degradation of games in the direction of simplification began a long time ago, now they highlight where to go in color, and NPCs tell you in plain text where to look and which lever to pull, a compass hangs over your head where to run, and on the map they conveniently mark what and where to collect, etc. This already exists in all genres, it's just that in this case, since this was supposed to be an RPG... In such complex games, such simplifications are most visible. Since this is a rather complex and deep genre and from the beginning it did not imply help to the player, the player himself must study the world of the game without its help, game can leave hints, but player must figure them out himself.
I'm generally surprised that we don't have automatic quest running and auto battle yet. (Although of course Square Enix figured it out to the and actually made auto battle in FF16, if you put on all the rings, you can complete the game by simply pressing one button... Because if not Square Enix, then who else...)
But people buy, and everyone was happy and everyone was satisfied with everything.The game market is actually primitively simple, publishers make an offer to players and see whether it was approved or not. If it gets approved, we'll see how much we can turn the knob until the players start to get upset. No, we certainly won't lose complex games completely, but their releases won't be frequent. Such simple games are easier to sell and the audience is larger, now if you put modern players in front of, let's say, classic RPGs or old-school JRPGs, I very much doubt that anyone will be able to play them.
Alex11
Member
Riveting conversations
There are some funny-ish lines here and there if you select the sarcastic responses, but my God, most of the time the conversations are about the most boring stuff.
I don't get it, how in the ever living fuck can you make the writing in DA universe this dull.
There are some funny-ish lines here and there if you select the sarcastic responses, but my God, most of the time the conversations are about the most boring stuff.
I don't get it, how in the ever living fuck can you make the writing in DA universe this dull.
JayK47
Member
I'm surprised the steam reviews are doing ok. Seems to be slowly decreasing, but was pretty high from the start. Did people only play for a few hours and give it a recommendation? Reviewed it too soon? It sounds like a lot of the BS is later in the game and mostly dealing with Taash. That and they do not read the codex/journals. I have to say, I never do that as well in past Bioware games.
Alex11
Member
Well, the reviews on Steam are about the same as Andromeda, but that's not exactly saying much. It's like any other game, there are some that gave it a 10 because they are fans of everything that is Dragon Age and that is reason enough.
I'm a big fan of DA and I think this is mediocre, for me the only good thing about it is the art style for cities, locations and environments.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
100% agree. The environments are the highlight here and are fantastic. I use the skip option on the dialogue, then if I want any lore stuff I read the journal.
They have a lot of lore in this game but it is tied to scrolls and "items of interest" that you pick up all the time. The From games have trained me to look for the story/lore myself through item inspection, journal, etc.
Thankfully NONE of the conversational bs has bleed into the lore pieces (as far as I have seen).
Alex11
Member
Yeah, I don't get how they're presenting the lore here, I mean, one of the most important pieces of lore is in a side quest and it wouldn't be such a big deal, but this game is a story focused one.
Meanwhile, on the main path you sit through countless boring conversations, ok, yeah some may enrich the world, but most are drivel.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
From does a great job getting out of the players way lore wise, you can track the stuff down and learn it on your own in time if you want to, I have no issue with that since that from games have always done that.
Dragon Age (and KOTOR, and ME, etc) was always a "video game sitcom" usually with likeable characters, an engaging if not sometimes rudimentary story arc, and interesting-ish character relationship growth. I fully admit I hate that stuff...look I don't want to BANG you...I just wanna go kill DRAGONS with you
Here it seems like they just had to work with what talent was left over after the constant reboots.
Another reason why I think the environments looks so damn good...all that stuff was done over the last decade and the main line story line just had its face "produced and collaborated" all over in q3/4 2023.
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Alex11
Member
This may be a blasphemy(lol, don't put a curse on me), but the way From tells the story is my least favourite thing about them. Not the item inspection or optional stuff, that is amazing, but the overall main story stuff.
I mean, I am all for minimalism, and I truly believe less is more and the best conversation can be handled without a single word spoken, but I would like a tiny bit more clarity for the main story.
Another thing is that From don't break that mystery by overexplaining, this is where Bioware fucks up, and in Veilguard too, it revealed a bit too much and I still have half a game to go.
Also, don't like this shift from dark fantasy tone and story to a more cheerful, optimistic one.
I think it helps that the world and art were already there, not to take any merit from the current artists.
xenosys
Member
Some of the latest reviews on MC and OC from people that weren't given review codes are absolutely obliterating the game. The last week of reviews on OC, the game has received an average score of 74%. 75% on MC.
Even with the game catering to gender idealogues like Jim Sterling, the game still only got 7.5/10.
Even with the game catering to gender idealogues like Jim Sterling, the game still only got 7.5/10.
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Doesn’t look like it’s for me, but a fair number of gaf members who picked it up do have positive sentiments. Nothing wrong with that, good to separate the drama from genuine impressions.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Never played any DA games.
But due to the popularity of Veilguard threads, I skimmed past DA games. Veilguard looks nothing like the past games. The older games seemed darker, ya you can control teammates, and the dialogue was much more mature than the Gen Z meme-ish chatter you get in Veilguard.
Based solely on gameplay snippets, Veilguard resembles Kingdoms of Amalur more than past DA games.
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Yes, as I wrote, you actually don't have a group anymore, your companions just act as skill buttons. This simultaneously has a very negative effect on the combat system, because all you do is press buttons on CD.
The game does not fit into the DA setting at all, if we take the previous games. Actually, that is why there is such a difference in opinions of the players who are fans of the series from the first game and those who just started playing. But in fact, the main thing that they removed from the game compared to the same DAO is the ability for the player to control the group and communicate with companions. It was possible to learn more about their lore, but the main thing is that you had complete control over the group (I posted a walkthrough with the worst decisions a little earlier, when you can actually kill almost all characters). But the very fact that the player could skip companions, or kill, betray, poison, etc. the only character who was covered by plot armor in DAO was Morrigan, because she played a key role in the plot. And this does not mean that you should just let players kill everyone left and right, no of course not, just give players tools to work with companions, give them the opportunity to decide for themselves who they want to see in the group or not, if you don’t like a character, give them the opportunity to get rid of them, you don’t have to kill them, you can just chase them away (Although this was the whole flavor of DAO, a very dark game).
My first acquaintance with the system, which, let's say, forever changed my impression of RPGs and working with a group, was in Baldur's Gate 2. There is a character Viconia DeVir, just walking through the central square you can notice a fire and a crowd of people, if you come up and look, you can see that a Drow girl is tied to a pole on the fire. And then the player faced a dilemma, you can do nothing and they will burn her, or you can save her and take her into the group. But if you take her into the group, since in the world of BG2 no one likes Drow, the group's reputation immediately dropped to -2 points, which then had to be returned (if you play for a good character), + she has an Evil alignment by default, and therefore she will conflict with other characters, well, except for Minsc (Beautiful character) he is Chaotic, he doesn't care =). But if the player shows patience, and most importantly, attentiveness, her worldview can be changed from Evil to Neutral through dialogues. BG3 has basically revived this now, but unfortunately, such things are still extremely rare in games.
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Mister Wolf
Gold Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Another one to the pile of...This game was a disappointment.
Also, this reviewer dares to use his wife (OG fan of the series) to show where the game fails. Shame.
Humdinger
Gold Member
I just finished watching that, or at least half. It's a good review.
He gives an overview at the 1:00 mark. After saying that it is not the big, epic fantasy RPG it was advertised to be, he says, "Instead, it plays much more like a friendship simulator and a group therapy visual novel, mixed with a high-production high fantasy action game. Problem being, it doesn't do a particularly good job at any of those components."
He says it was good for the first 10 hours, then he gradually got sick of it.
I recommend the section on the writing, which starts at 15:40. At 20:50, he says this: "It feels like this game has been put together by a group of kindergarten teachers or something. It feels like the people who made this game felt like the audience was so young and naive that they needed to be protected from harsh language or from people being mean to each other."
ChorizoPicozo
Member
his wife is the representative of actual fans of the series. her comments are enough to know how they fucked up.
i almost wish the Game Awards would give Dragon Age a ton of nominations just for the internet to unite against this BS.
simpatico
Member
Only purchasers can review it. Pretty sure most people saw enough from previews to know it's not worth our time or money. If anything the number of positive reviews on Steam should chill us all because it implies we have a much great population of degenerate anti-socials than we imagined.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Yeah, I just finished watching that. She buries it as a Dragon Age game and an RPG.
- No real choice when it comes to companions
- No real choice when it comes to dialog options, and no significant consequences based on those choices
- Pretty much a linear game that plays out the same each time, regardless of what you do (i.e., no real role playing; not an RPG)
- Lackluster romances (this surprised me, as I'd heard it described as a "romantasy" by others; apparently the romances here are very toned down and PG)
- "Massive battle, the end of the world is coming, but first we need to sit down and talk about our feelings." lol
BigBeauford
Gold Member
Is a 71% really anything to crow about?
Angry_Megalodon
Banned
He is an asshole and if you are implying that's relevant in this thread, you are too.
amigastar
Member
Maybe it's not relevant to this thread but the Group he is talking about is clearly paranoid.
Also it's easy to call people assholes, isn't it?
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Palabragrís
Member
Last Hearth
Member
Step 1: It's not really happeningMaybe it's not relevant to this thread but the Group he is talking about is clearly paranoid.
Also it's easy to call people assholes, isn't it?
Step 2: Yeah, it's happening, but it's not a big deal
Step 3: It's a good thing, actually
Step 4: People freaking out about it are the real problem <--- You are here.