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[Pegasus Actual]

 

[FunkMiller]

I didnt even think about this, but yeah the villains do end up feeling easy mode.

To be fair, the first one also had a similar issue where the Atredis army is wiped out because one guy disabled the defense shields. Then everyone just basically folds. Wish they had put up some more of a fight back then, and same goes for the villain army this time around. They get obliterated in seconds.

Villeneuve is clearly uninterested in the actual ’war’ part of Dune, and just wants to get to the character stuff as quickly as possible. He omits so much of the background behind Paul’s ability to take on and defeat the Harkonnens and the Imperium.

I get that this is an issue for some, but I let it go, as he’s right - the character stuff is the interesting part. I’ve seen countless battles in movies, and I’ll see countless more. I was okay with both Atreides and Imperium being defeated quickly, because that’s also how Herbert did it. He is equally uninterested in the mechanics of battle. The final battle is mostly people talking about it.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Villeneuve is clearly uninterested in the actual ’war’ part of Dune, and just wants to get to the character stuff as quickly as possible. He omits so much of the background behind Paul’s ability to take on and defeat the Harkonnens and the Imperium.

I get that this is an issue for some, but I let it go, as he’s right - the character stuff is the interesting part. I’ve seen countless battles in movies, and I’ll see countless more. I was okay with both Atreides and Imperium being defeated quickly, because that’s also how Herbert did it. He is equally uninterested in the mechanics of battle. The final battle is mostly people talking about it.

This was precisely why Game of Thrones was great in the early seasons and shit at the end.

They lost the writing of the characters at the end and it was straight up mechanics.

 

[AJUMP23]

Villeneuve is clearly uninterested in the actual ’war’ part of Dune, and just wants to get to the character stuff as quickly as possible. He omits so much of the background behind Paul’s ability to take on and defeat the Harkonnens and the Imperium.

I get that this is an issue for some, but I let it go, as he’s right - the character stuff is the interesting part. I’ve seen countless battles in movies, and I’ll see countless more. I was okay with both Atreides and Imperium being defeated quickly, because that’s also how Herbert did it. He is equally uninterested in the mechanics of battle. The final battle is mostly people talking about it.

You get one very nice and big battle scene. But it is over rather quickly.

But the book is more about the mix of religion and politics and how they are leveraged to control and run societies. Battles are cool and where the budget is. But the political intrigue is where the story is.


I liked where you see the Sardicar walk into the dust and the freman walk out. That is powerful.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Slow start. But nice ramp up. Chani is not a veteran guerilla fighter but a spoiled and entitled teenager. She should have understood, all of it.
Very last scene was such an eye roll.
Guess Denni had to give in to Studio demands.

Part 1 had more striking visuals and better pace, this ended to up beat for a three part story arc.

 

[KrakenIPA]

Slow start. But nice ramp up.

yep.

Chani is not a veteran guerilla fighter but a spoiled and entitled teenager.

yep.

She should have understood, all of it.

yep.

Very last scene was such an eye roll.
Guess Denni had to give in to Studio demands.

Part 1 had more striking visuals and better pace, this ended to up beat for a three part story arc.

I hope the last scene will be better for me on a rewatch. DV giving in to some studio pressure would be a surprise, though. Part 1 just seems like a sharper movie all around!

 

[NahaNago]

I finally saw the movie and I'm kinda mixed on it. Visually I thought it looked pretty good but not jaw dropping. Fights were mostly disappointing except for the last one. The characters were mostly okay but I still couldn't quite understand the mother and Zendaya's character became weird closer to the end of the movie. I would have liked to have seen the relationship between paula and zendaya grow and develop into a strong bond. Paul seemed okay except for near the end when he was suppose to be the rallying leader. I kind of wish the worm felt more impressive when first seen. I need to rewatch the old dune to see how it stacks up to this. It was an enjoyable film that had some nice atmospheric visuals with the desert but that is about it.

Oh yeah, I thought the film was corrupted during that gladiator like scene. Really threw me off.

 

[ZehDon]

As a fan of the books for a long time, I have to say, the glut of Dune memes running about the internet warms my heart. It's great to see so many people having fun with and enjoying something that's meant a lot to me over the years. Personal favourites are easily the Stilgar memes.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Spoiler: Spoiler

Thinking back, it is kind of curious how the Fremen have been able to defeat the Harkonen within the Span of less than 9months, what have they been doing before?
They could have chosen 20 fanatics and send them on sandworm kamikaze Mission to Arakis HQ. Voila done and dusted.
Made a lot more sense in the Lynch movie as Paul showed them the GB powers and trained them.

 

[FunkMiller]

Spoiler: Spoiler

Thinking back, it is kind of curious how the Fremen have been able to defeat the Harkonen within the Span of less than 9months, what have they been doing before?
They could have chosen 20 fanatics and send them on sandworm kamikaze Mission to Arakis HQ. Voila done and dusted.
Made a lot more sense in the Lynch movie as Paul showed them the GB powers and trained them.

Villeneuve obviously wanted to lean of the concept that it takes a messianic figure to rally huge amounts of delusional people into massive acts of violence. That's the whole point of the Dune saga, so while missing out the Fremen training by Paul and Jessica is an omission, it's not one to get too hot under the collar about, as the film encapsulates what Herbert was trying to say very well. They were conditioned to act only when Space Jesus came along.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Villeneuve obviously wanted to lean of the concept that it takes a messianic figure to rally huge amounts of delusional people into massive acts of violence. That's the whole point of the Dune saga, so while missing out the Fremen training by Paul and Jessica is an omission, it's not one to get too hot under the collar about, as the film encapsulates what Herbert was trying to say very well. They were conditioned to act only when Space Jesus came along.

That's not an entirely accurate reading. Frank is talking about charismatic leaders. Government leaders as well. I know you want to think it's all about religious figures but that's simply not true. Frank Herbert is quoted as saying his favorite president during his time was Nixon because he taught people to distrust government again.

 

[jason10mm]

He got killed again by Thanos.…it should now be the current MCU plotline

Kinda like when Thanos tells Wanda "I don't even know who you are".

Oh yeah, Josh, you DEFINITELY remember a few days on set rolling around with a naked Elizabeth, you sly dog

 

[jason10mm]

Villeneuve obviously wanted to lean of the concept that it takes a messianic figure to rally huge amounts of delusional people into massive acts of violence. That's the whole point of the Dune saga, so while missing out the Fremen training by Paul and Jessica is an omission, it's not one to get too hot under the collar about, as the film encapsulates what Herbert was trying to say very well. They were conditioned to act only when Space Jesus came along.

That's not really true though. The Fremen already had a "master plan" designed by the elder Kynes for storing water, bribing the spice guild, etc. Paul just exploits ancient myths brought to Arrakis by the BG, but they were not just holding their breath till he came. He diverts them from one path to the Golden Path(tm) but the fremen always had agency and ambition.

 

[FunkMiller]

That's not an entirely accurate reading. Frank is talking about charismatic leaders. Government leaders as well. I know you want to think it's all about religious figures but that's simply not true. Frank Herbert is quoted as saying his favorite president during his time was Nixon because he taught people to distrust government again.

Mate, the third book literally called Dune Messiah. Lisan Al Ghaib means messiah. Mahdi means saviour. The Panoplia Proheticus is all about a saviour. The Fremen are manipulated by a holy book.

Herbert‘s intent can also be use with more general charismatic leaders, but it’s pretty damned clear he’s specifically referencing religious leaders and religion with every phrase, reference and story beat of Dune.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Mate, the third book literally called Dune Messiah. Lisan Al Ghaib means messiah. Mahdi means saviour. The Panoplia Proheticus is all about a saviour. The Fremen are manipulated by a holy book.

Herbert‘s intent can also be use with more general charismatic leaders, but it’s pretty damned clear he’s specifically referencing religious leaders and religion with every phrase, reference and story beat of Dune.

You can read it that way but you're objectively wrong. It's just as much about politics. Moreso really. I'm just going on frank Herbert's own words. Easy enough for you to look up.

 

[FunkMiller]

You can read it that way but you're objectively wrong. It's just as much about politics. Moreso really. I'm just going on frank Herbert's own words. Easy enough for you to look up.

I don’t know what to tell you. This is a direct quote from Frank Herbert:

So you got these centers of power and it doesn't matter a damned bit how pure & good the hero is. By just being there he creates a power structure & so its like a magnet; the iron filings, the corruptible, come in & things are done in the name of the leader--as they were done in Christianity, in Islam, in Buddhism, in all major religions & lesser religions. Things are done in the name of the leaders are amplified by the members, who follow without thinking, without questioning, and wind up in Guyana drinking poisoned Kool-Aid.

He does talk about more general charismatic leaders and politics of course, but it’s always been pretty accepted that his main reference with Paul is religious messianic leaders.

He could have coded Paul differently, but he was obviously creating a religious analogue, not just a political one.

Villeneuve obviously feels the same way. Look at how he portrays Stilgar.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I don’t know what to tell you. This is a direct quote from Frank Herbert:



He does talk about more general charismatic leaders and politics of course, but it’s always been pretty accepted that his main reference with Paul is religious messianic leaders.

He could have coded Paul differently, but he was obviously creating a religious analogue, not just a political one.

The religious aspect was amped up in the film. Have you read the books? I'm guessing not since you incorrectly labeled Messiah as the third book.

 

[FunkMiller]

The religious aspect was amped up in the film. Have you read the books? I'm guessing not since you incorrectly labeled Messiah as the third book.

Second. It’s the third film. My bad. Read all six books at least once. And I’ve quoted you Frank Herbert directly, so don’t think I have much more to say.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Second. It’s the third film. My bad. Read all six books at least once. And I’ve quoted you Frank Herbert directly, so don’t think I have much more to say.

I simply think you're being reductive and over simplifying the story. it's much more nuanced than the atheist take of "religion bad"

 

[OmegaSupreme]

"I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." One of the most dangerous presidents we had in this century was John Kennedy because people said "Yes Sir Mr. Charismatic Leader what do we do next?" and we wound up in Vietnam. And I think probably the most valuable president of this century was Richard Nixon. Because he taught us to distrust government and he did it by example."

I can play the quote game too FunkMiller

He's clearly meant for this story to have several levels beyond big bad religion

 

[FunkMiller]

He's clearly meant for this story to have several levels beyond big bad religion

And I've never denied that he didn't. But Paul is heavily and obviously coded as a religious leader, with the story acting as an equally obvious warning about the dangers of religious messianic belief (as well as a warning against mindlessly following a leader in general). I get that this might be uncomfortable for someone of a religious persuasion to deal with, but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

And I've never denied that he didn't. But Paul is heavily and obviously coded as a religious leader, with the story acting as an equally obvious warning about the dangers of religious messianic belief (as well as a warning against mindlessly following a leader in general). I get that this might be uncomfortable for someone of a religious persuasion to deal with, but it doesn't make it any less true.

I never denied the religious part. You denied the political part being an equal if not greater motivator for Herbert's dune saga. As he said in his own words above. Your grasp of the story is incomplete because of your bias.

 

[FunkMiller]

I never denied the religious part. You denied the political part being an equal if not greater motivator for Herbert's dune saga. As he said in his own words above. Your grasp of the story is incomplete because of your bias.

I would make the same observation of you about the fact you want to make out that the religious aspect isn't as important as it is... but I feel like this is something we're never going to agree on, so let's leave it there.

 

[pachura]

Is it worth seeing Dune 2 in a ScreenX cinema (270 degrees, projection on side walls), if IMAX is not available?

 

[KrakenIPA]

Is it worth seeing Dune 2 in a ScreenX cinema (270 degrees, projection on side walls), if IMAX is not available?

Iti a wortth seeing Dune 2 on any screen ngl

 

[kikkis]

I think it was quite a bit better than the first. I don't like the theater experience that much though. It's so loud it's annoying and distracting. That and other people annoy me.

 

[ADiTAR]

I think the movie is good, but it's not a great adaptation to cinema. They should have cut the Feyd-Ruatha character, it served no purpose and they could have given all of his stuff to Rabban, and the audience would've been ok with it since he conquered Arrekis. The movie was already too long.

Overall the first one felt a bit more on point. A bit more sci-fi and less boring scenes. In the book the Fremmen city felt more alive, an here we're not really seeing them live.

 

[jason10mm]

I think the movie is good, but it's not a great adaptation to cinema. They should have cut the Feyd-Ruatha character, it served no purpose and they could have given all of his stuff to Rabban, and the audience would've been ok with it since he conquered Arrekis. The movie was already too long.

Overall the first one felt a bit more on point. A bit more sci-fi and less boring scenes. In the book the Fremmen city felt more alive, an here we're not really seeing them live.

Goddamn, that's a hot take, but I think you are right. If you are going to shift away from the tactical and strategic picture of Arrakis and the position the spice holds in allowing Houses dominance, then there is really no point in the duality rule of Rabban and Feyd. You don't really need either character if you just handwave travel/communication time, the Baron can do it all if the focus is on the BG, Pauls mooning over Chani, and religious fervor. Hell, for the purposes of a film, you could collapse Gurney, Duncan, and probably Hawat into a sort of super aide-de-camp/mentor figure to Paul as well.

 

[ADiTAR]

Goddamn, that's a hot take, but I think you are right. If you are going to shift away from the tactical and strategic picture of Arrakis and the position the spice holds in allowing Houses dominance, then there is really no point in the duality rule of Rabban and Feyd. You don't really need either character if you just handwave travel/communication time, the Baron can do it all if the focus is on the BG, Pauls mooning over Chani, and religious fervor. Hell, for the purposes of a film, you could collapse Gurney, Duncan, and probably Hawat into a sort of super aide-de-camp/mentor figure to Paul as well.

In LOTR they also cut a lot of characters and blended them into others. That's a good adaptation. Though the movies were longer, they felt shorter because of the so many locals. My guess is that Villeneuve wanted more locations, because that desert is tough and gets boring which is why I was surprised not to see a colorful city in the desert.

 

[Hardensoul]

I think the movie is good, but it's not a great adaptation to cinema. They should have cut the Feyd-Ruatha character, it served no purpose and they could have given all of his stuff to Rabban, and the audience would've been ok with it since he conquered Arrekis. The movie was already too long.

Overall the first one felt a bit more on point. A bit more sci-fi and less boring scenes. In the book the Fremmen city felt more alive, an here we're not really seeing them live.

Austin Butler is so good as Feyd. I can’t see anyone else as Feyd if they’re any future adaptations!

 

[Days like these...]

I think the movie is good, but it's not a great adaptation to cinema. They should have cut the Feyd-Ruatha character, it served no purpose and they could have given all of his stuff to Rabban, and the audience would've been ok with it since he conquered Arrekis. The movie was already too long.

Overall the first one felt a bit more on point. A bit more sci-fi and less boring scenes. In the book the Fremmen city felt more alive, an here we're not really seeing them live.

I also enjoyed the 1st one more. That's not to say I didn't love this one. I did.

 

[ADiTAR]

I also enjoyed the 1st one more. That's not to say I didn't love this one. I did.

It's better paced. Also we're less of an awe when we see the desert and the worms. Even the emperor local felt kinda meh to me, it didn't feel as regal and expensive as I would've liked.

 

[Days like these...]

It's better paced. Also we're less of an awe when we see the desert and the worms. Even the emperor local felt kinda meh to me, it didn't feel as regal and expensive as I would've liked.

For me nothing in the 2nd film compared to the scene in the 1st where House Atreides takes over Arrakis or the scene where the Saurdakar get recruited.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I saw this on the IMAX and the whole theater was shaking from the bass. This was one of the loudest movies I've ever seen. Highly recommend

 

[Days like these...]

Spiciest of takes take feyd is the snoke of Dune. Chani Coleman is Rey. Why doesn't she believe in Timothee if her tears brought him back from the brink?

 

[Yoboman]

First movie I've gone to the theatre for since Endgame. Absolutely incredible experience, Denis Villeneuve had to be close to my all time favourite director by now

 

[Yoboman]

I didnt even think about this, but yeah the villains do end up feeling easy mode.

To be fair, the first one also had a similar issue where the Atredis army is wiped out because one guy disabled the defense shields. Then everyone just basically folds. Wish they had put up some more of a fight back then, and same goes for the villain army this time around. They get obliterated in seconds.

To be fair I kind of felt that way in the book. In the end it all came off way easier than expected so it's not too inaccurate

And the Harkonnen betrayal in the first book never really felt like a big scale affair either

 

[Plague Doctor]

It's a solid 6.5 perhaps 7/10.

In the sea of shit sci fi from the past 10 years, it's good by comparison as it takes itself seriously, it's acted competently, and they did good special effects without any blunder.

It's just alright and should be reward for only being a competent movie compared to 99% of Hollywood slop.

I think with lots of people, when you see so many bad movies, a decently alright one looks like a masterpiece from creative starvation.

My hot take: The sci fi channel Dune series and the lynch version casted a lot of the main characters better and the costumer/character design was far more memorable.

 

[EviLore]

My hot take: The sci fi channel Dune series and the lynch version casted a lot of the main characters better and the costumer/character design was far more memorable.

Lynch version is better in most ways, especially the casting and costume design yes. It captures the weirdness of Dune’s universe better too.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I need to revisit Lynch Dune. Saw it long before reading the books. It made zero sense. I started watching some of that Spicediver cut and it was better than I remember. Not sure if it's the cut, being familiar with the books, or a combination of the two.

I would think NuDune is more comprehensible for people who haven't read the book.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I need to revisit Lynch Dune. Saw it long before reading the books. It made zero sense. I started watching some of that Spicediver cut and it was better than I remember. Not sure if it's the cut, being familiar with the books, or a combination of the two.

I would think NuDune is more comprehensible for people who haven't read the book.

I'm not so sure. My friend who has never read the books came out of Part Two not understanding almost anything, mainly because the movie almost goes out of it's way to purposely not explain anything. He was just happy everything looked cool and lots of stuff exploded but I would imagine if you've never read the books like I have the story is complete hash to you

The bigger problem with David Lynch's film is that it tried to cram the whole story into 1 movie and somehow despite endless internal monologues only managed to be more confusing than helpful with it's explanations. Maybe having less information is a good thing in some ways

 

[Rentahamster]

I enjoyed it.

 

[FunkMiller]

I need to revisit Lynch Dune. Saw it long before reading the books. It made zero sense. I started watching some of that Spicediver cut and it was better than I remember. Not sure if it's the cut, being familiar with the books, or a combination of the two.

I would think NuDune is more comprehensible for people who haven't read the book.

For those interested:




Vastly better than the theatrical version. Still has many problems, but it's a big improvement.

 

[EviLore]

Overall the first one felt a bit more on point. A bit more sci-fi and less boring scenes. In the book the Fremmen city felt more alive, an here we're not really seeing them live.

Instead of all the cool scifi creativity, lore, worldbuilding, and weirdness, we get Chani making a pouty face and trying to interrupt every time the narrative is advancing. As though she entered from outside the story in order to crash it—because she basically did, since those scenes are invented.

 

[Days like these...]

Instead of all the cool scifi creativity, lore, worldbuilding, and weirdness, we get Chani making a pouty face and trying to interrupt every time the narrative is advancing. As though she entered from outside the story in order to crash it—because she basically did, since those scenes are invented.

Its weird how Denis screwed up that part of Dune so badly.

 

[Tams]

I finally saw the movie and I'm kinda mixed on it. Visually I thought it looked pretty good but not jaw dropping. Fights were mostly disappointing except for the last one. The characters were mostly okay but I still couldn't quite understand the mother and Zendaya's character became weird closer to the end of the movie. I would have liked to have seen the relationship between paula and zendaya grow and develop into a strong bond. Paul seemed okay except for near the end when he was suppose to be the rallying leader. I kind of wish the worm felt more impressive when first seen. I need to rewatch the old dune to see how it stacks up to this. It was an enjoyable film that had some nice atmospheric visuals with the desert but that is about it.

Oh yeah, I thought the film was corrupted during that gladiator like scene. Really threw me off.

That's because they changed two major plot points that make the plot more believable and interesting:

Spoiler

Alia is not only born, but old enough to participate inn the final battle on Arrakas. Paul and Chani have a child in the south, but the main Fremen settlement is attacked and the child killed (along with many other Fremen children).

And using the family atomics isn't in the book and was poor decision.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

For those interested:




Vastly better than the theatrical version. Still has many problems, but it's a big improvement.

Oh ffs, I’m 3 minutes in and what is this extra footage? Fuck it, we are going in.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Its weird how Denis screwed up that part of Dune so badly.

He is a massive fan and knows better, this is studio pressure, so either have a poc woman front and center or no movie at all. I would bet money that he got a min. of screen time she needed to be seen.
Given that, he managed it kind of well, she is inconsequential and just eating up scene time.

Marketing went haywire with her, she's on movie posters in front of Paul XD

 

[Days like these...]

He is a massive fan and knows better, this is studio pressure, so either have a poc woman front and center or no movie at all. I would bet money that he got a min. of screen time she needed to be seen.
Given that, he managed it kind of well, she is inconsequential and just eating up scene time.

Marketing went haywire with her, she's on movie posters in front of Paul XD

They could have found a better actor not as well known however therein lies the problem.

 

[jason10mm]

I need to revisit Lynch Dune. Saw it long before reading the books. It made zero sense. I started watching some of that Spicediver cut and it was better than I remember. Not sure if it's the cut, being familiar with the books, or a combination of the two.

I would think NuDune is more comprehensible for people who haven't read the book.

I used to have a vhs of the extended DC of lynchs dune (extended intro, harvesting the water of life, etc). Wonder if that is on blue ray anywhere or maybe that's this spicediver edit.

Anyway, if that is still around, I highly recommend it.