Goalus
Member
I heard that you just have to receive a few subsidies from the government, and then a year later you have a rocket that flies to Mars. Anyone could do it.
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Elon Musk becomes the first person to reach a net worth of $400 billion
- Thread starter LectureMaster
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It's that easy! Meanwhile, 24 years and >$10 billion later, Blue Origin has yet to even make it to low Earth orbit...
Dr.Morris79
Member
I found a pound under my car seat yesterday.
SF Kosmo
Banned
It's not eat the rich, but even the most corrupt pay-to-won mobile game needs a level cap or no one else is gonna play.
It's not a zero sum game though. He created value and jobs. The United States is significantly more competitive across several sectors directly because of him. Many thousands of people have become millionaires by working for him, including Tesla factory workers.
The level cap is that we're all mortal and will die of old age someday. Unless he disrupts that too with Neuralink.
SF Kosmo
Banned
Capitalism isn't a zero sum game, but oligopoly and feudalism actually are, and I think people get so caught up defending capitalism from the left they don't realize how much ground they've ceded to the right.
And now he's fighting to take those things away from people. Hence my joke about how we need a level cap. You want people to be able to get rich and succeed, but you don't want to be South Korea where 6 families control 60% of the GDP. We're witnessing the collapse of that society and I think we should look close and take some notes, you know?
In capitalism, wealth is created when money circulates, or changes hands. Commerce grows wealth. But when wealth consolidates, it essentially goes out of circulation, it ceases to create value, and it inevitably drives systemic corruption, which the wealthy leverage to limit the opportunities of the less wealthy to compete with them..
No one is arguing that you shouldn't be able to get rich by starting a business. That's good, we want more people to do that. But when companies and the ultra wealthy grow too large and powerful, it becomes harder and harder for the next generation of entrepreneurs to compete, especially one who controls the regulatory state and wields it to his advantage.
If you want to ban inheritance, a 100% estate tax that goes back to the people, I will accept your proposal. I think it's more complicated than that though.
Not really a problem in the United States. Much more of a problem in Europe and Asia.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I'm looking forward to the Musk defense force when they start slashing Veterans Healthcare, Social Security, and Medicare. He's just so efficient!
He's basically heading up the Department of Zero Sum Spending. He's not exactly a disinterested party either, considering he gets billions in government subsidy.
He's basically heading up the Department of Zero Sum Spending. He's not exactly a disinterested party either, considering he gets billions in government subsidy.
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SF Kosmo
Banned
I think social mobility is one of best measures of a successful capitalist system, and social mobility has been declining in the United States since the birth of neoliberalism.
People think that wealth is the core conceipt of capitalism, but wealth and power have been a part of every system before it. It's competition for capital that is the great innovation of our system.
Healthy capitalism is about maintaining the balance that maximizes marketplace competition. These aren't black and white questions, they are fundamentally a question of balance. This is why we have anti-trust, this is why we have the regulatory state. When you remove these things (or worse, hand them to billionaires to weaponize them), capitalism crumbles, and becomes oligarchy.
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Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
You probably don't know this, but there are people with more money than that. They just don't want to make a big splash about it.
It's a disgusting reality, because so many need money and those people don't give a shit. Not only that, they want even more.
It's a disgusting reality, because so many need money and those people don't give a shit. Not only that, they want even more.
Fahdis
Member
Rothschild would like to have a word with all of you including the Saudis.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The regulatory state actively impedes competition for capital. There is a reason why all these healthcare companies went in for Obamacare, it is because they knew that the morass of regulation and restructuring that came with it prevented all sorts of upstarts from forming. The much discussed UnitedHealthCare today is like 10x bigger than it was before that became law. There is a reason why big companies like Wal-Mart will shill for minimum wage increases and increased employment regulation, they know it applies a burden that mom and pop shops can't meet.
In any case, Elon Musk faces significant competition in every industry he is involved with, he is not in banking collecting a vig on any dollar that passes through his building. He is not Larry Fink that is a de facto arm of the Department of Treasury. In space, in EV, in social media, he faces competition. He is also facing a regulatory state that is increasingly actively hostile to him, as you saw when a judge denied his shareholder approved pay package twice... in Delaware. Delaware's entire reason for existing is to provide a corporate friendly environment for corporations to operate in, and they are torching that just to get to him because Democrats don't like him anymore.
But hey maybe the government can just seize all his assets and use that to fund... 3 months of deficit spending at current rates. I am sure that will do more good than the things he is doing.
SF Kosmo
Banned
Yeah, dude, that's my point, regulation isn't good or bad across the board, they're a tool that can be used to protect marketplace competition or they can be used to hinder it.
When the regulatory bodies and the leadership above them become hopelessly corrupt, then these institutions are used to do harm, but the problem is corruption, not the existence of institutions.
Mass consolidation of wealth is anaethma to both democracy and capitalism. Fewer and fewer people becoming richer and richer is a fundamental failure of the system. I don't want to blame Elon for more of that than he is responsible for but I do want to point out that capitalism is dying and oligarchy is at our doorstep.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The lack of ability to do math on the part of the "eat the rich" types is both hilarious and sad
If the government were to confiscate the entire asset values of all the billionaires in America, they would raise enough capital to fund the government for....1 year
The problem isn't funding, it's spending. The government's spending needs to be drastically cut before the United States actually goes bankrupt
And guess who's out there actually trying to do something about it? Oh that's right, it's Elon Musk and his DOGE initiative
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
And Rockefeller?
Elon Musk’s Net Worth Tops $400 Billion, a Historic First
Elon Musk, whose wealth has been turbocharged since President-elect Donald Trump’s win last month, became the first person to reach $400 billion in net worth, the latest milestone for the world’s richest individual.www.bloomberg.com
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Which spending needs to be cut, though? Boeing and their ilk get the bulk of their money from the government in those annual spending bills which keep going UP. NASA gets less than 1%... Obviously SS is the biggest expenditure but cutting that won't go over well with voters, especially the elderly and disabled. Medicare was just 2% more than the military yet don't we always complain about THAT budget which, like everything else, always goes up? Even in peacetime and with plenty of jets and ordinance, it keeps going up... even with sales to our allies.
Technically, someone like Victoria owned all the mineral wealth of Canada, Australia, India and 1/4 of Africa at the same time. You aren't beating that level of riches if you just have some oil under Arabia (which was under British influence for a bit as well.) But it's never included in lists of historical rich people.
thefool
Member
Milei used a great expression last week in his speech, fiscal degeneracy.
Imagine if your parents lived a luxurious life based on a debt their kid would have to inherit and pay! An absurd logic no sensible person would accept but it has fueled the government spending of most countries in the last 40 years. Let's write IOU's and print imaginary money to buy them.
Literally madness.
thefool
Member
I am not american, so i cannot go in any detail about what should be cut specifically in your country, but the general sentiment is the same everywhere, you cannot have more debt, there's no other way around it. You can't pay it and if you try to escape it by devaluing the currency, citizens are the ones that will get royally fucked.
Government spending needs to be downsized to your fiscal revenue or else you will keep disproportionately affecting poor people through inflation.
The reason Elon and his companies are growing so quickly is because of the cantillon effect of inflation. He's capturing it all while it takes years to trickle down to labor. This is the real systemic risk that is fueling such growth.
The eat the rich crowd still haven't caught up that it's the government the ultra rich who is royally fucking us all. When the government prints more money, the rich capture it all
(m2 is the money supply growth)
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llien
Banned
Yeah, about that...
1) Overwhelming majority of people does not want EVs.
2) Majority of EV owners does not want to buy another EV
3) EVs sell "like hotcakes" when you force people financially (Norway, Netherlands) or directly (China, 1+ year of waiting for a permission to drive ICE in major cities). Still, even heavily subsidized Chinese manufacturers are overwhelmingly losing money.
So why do car manufacturers even bother producing EVs then, you may wonder. Well, guess why:
CO₂ emission performance standards for cars and vans
Passenger cars and light commercial vehicles (vans) are respectively responsible for around 16% and 3% of total EU emissions of carbon dioxide (CO₂), the main greenhouse gas driving climate change.
climate.ec.europa.eu
(by the way, US has pioneered this, although, targets are milder)
Manufacturers are FORCED to mix in EVs, else they will miss the fleet targets and will be fined into stone age.
This scheisse is why Tesla makes nearly 2 billion selling... something imaginary:
Tesla Hits Record High Sales from Carbon Credits at $1.79B
Learn how Tesla's carbon credit sales defy expectations, driving its financial success amid tightening emissions regulations and competition.
carboncredits.com
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Some people believe Elon should be president, I like him and think he's someone who can manage a country, we're talking about someone who will take us to another planet.
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Dr.Morris79
Member
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Trogdor1123
Member
I like some of what Elon does to and respect him but in no way does he have the skills to run a nation. Almost no one has those skills. That's not a slight either, it's just not in his wheel house.
Unknown Soldier
Member
He's an actual African American immigrant, born and raised in South Africa
Both he and Arnold Schwarzenegger who was born and raised in Austria are disqualified from become President by the Constitution because they are born in foreign countries
Unknown?
Member
We can only hope his legacy is that of Andrew Jackson. He could put, "I killed the bank" on his tombstone too.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
"Vox pupuli"
Uh, yeah. Sure buddy. Not dystopian at all.
Uh, yeah. Sure buddy. Not dystopian at all.
LegendOfKage
Member
I'm pretty sure that's Latin, not Dystopian.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
thefool
Member
Category:Referendums in Switzerland - Wikipedia
SF Kosmo
Banned
I don't think Musk is concerned with legacy.
There are two kinds of "economic conservatives": those that believe (without evidence) that Austrian school voodoo actually works and money will trickle down and grow, and those that understand that that this stuff is bad for the economy but know that ever economic crisis creates an upward consolidation of wealth and power.
Musk is the second kind. He is a neo-feudalists adherent of Curtis Yarvin. He thinks people are bad and that he should be in charge and his goals are that straightforward.
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