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[Alandring]

I think when Sony shut down their Japan Studio, that pretty much tells you that they don't really care about Japan market anymore....the sad irony is that Japan Studio is the co-developer of Demon's Souls. A few months later Sony bought Blue Point the American studio who remakes Demon's Souls....that's a big middle finger to the Japan Studio team

If you don't count Astrobot: Rescue Mission (because Team Asobi still exist), which game was the latest success of Sony Japan Studio?

We could say Bloodborne or The Last Guardian, but those games were primarly developped by extrenal developpers (and the developpment of The Last Guardian was a nightmare).

I absolutely understand why people are disappointed about the disparition of Sony Japan Studio. I think they should create a new first party studio in Japan to compensate this loss. But the last decade for Japan Studio was so terrible that I can understand why Sony don't want to invest on them anymore.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

Does the Japanese sales of Call of Duty really mean anything to the success of the game? It's not a huge territory and not the target audience.

No it doesn’t. COD will still be in the top 3 best sold games next year regardless of Japan. People will be mad at that and all will be right in the sales world.

 

[Lognor]

To me they should ONLY be pleased when they pass or at least come close to 500,000 that the OG Xbox did.

Why are you comparing it to a console that released TWENTY years ago? By that same logic Sony should only be pleased if the PS5 outsells the PS2.

Although the PS5 is doing terrible in Japan, no argument there.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You said that Japan used to love powerful platforms and this has changed. My argument is that Japan loves the platforms with the games they are interested in and that this hasn't changed. Why is it "sad" that Japan plays games on the TV and on the go?

And games do sell well in charts. Just by looking at the physical sales in the latest top 30 chart we can see that BOTW is nearly 2 million. Momotaro and Ring Fit are over that figure. Splatoon is over 3 million and Pokémon, Mario Kart and Smash Bros. are over 4 million. These are very strong figures for a single country.

Yes it is true that the industry is not the same as it was in the 90s and early 00s. There are fewer platforms, fewer releases and digital exists. But these are global changes not Japan-specific ones.

Consoles have always been more powerful than Handhelds and back in the 90's Japan loved their consoles and in the PS2 era. Now Japan is mobile central, no wonder Nintendo is doing so well. Remember the days when FF could sell 3 million copies in Japan alone when Resident Evil 2 sold over 2 million copies in Japan alone when Japanese gamers bought consoles games.

In the west big budget AAA games still do well, in Japan not so much the case anymore. No wonder they can't match Western developers these days for budgets and staffing

 

[Woopah]

Consoles have always been more powerful than Handhelds and back in the 90's Japan loved their consoles and in the PS2 era. Now Japan is mobile central, no wonder Nintendo is doing so well. Remember the days when FF could sell 3 million copies in Japan alone when Resident Evil 2 sold over 2 million copies in Japan alone when Japanese gamers bought consoles games.

In the west big budget AAA games still do well, in Japan not so much the case anymore. No wonder they can't match Western developers these days for budgets and staffing

Right, Japan loved the PS2 over the more powerful GameCube and Xbox. And the even less powerful GBA sold similarly to PS2 while it was in the market. So clearly power was never the first priority.

Being sad for the decline in Japan of certain franchises I understand.But it is not sadder for Zelda and Monster Hunter to sell 2 million then it is for Resident Evil to do so. It's not sadder for Dragon Quest and Smash Bros to sell 3 million than it is for Final Fantasy to do so.

 

[Azelover]

Consoles have always been more powerful than Handhelds and back in the 90's Japan loved their consoles and in the PS2 era. Now Japan is mobile central, no wonder Nintendo is doing so well. Remember the days when FF could sell 3 million copies in Japan alone when Resident Evil 2 sold over 2 million copies in Japan alone when Japanese gamers bought consoles games.

In the west big budget AAA games still do well, in Japan not so much the case anymore. No wonder they can't match Western developers these days for budgets and staffing

You have a point. But this really started with the DS, I think.

It wasn't so much that Japan went mobile. In my opinion it happened naturally. The japanese public looked at the diminshing returns(yes, I'm bringing this up again, because it's relevant) of the graphics on consoles, and said "fuck it". These systems are bulky, I can't take my games anywhere, and the graphics aren't good enough to justify that.

It would have happened no matter what Nintendo or anyone else cooked up. And it's gonna happen in the rest of the world, too. Just a matter of time.

 

[Woopah]

You have a point. But this really started with the DS, I think.

It wasn't so much that Japan went mobile. In my opinion it happened naturally. The japanese public looked at the diminshing returns(yes, I'm bringing this up again, because it's relevant) of the graphics on consoles, and said "fuck it". These systems are bulky, I can't take my games anywhere, and the graphics aren't good enough to justify that.

It would have happened no matter what Nintendo or anyone else cooked up. And it's gonna happen in the rest of the world, too. Just a matter of time.

I highly doubt we see the same thing in the West we are seeing in Asia. The two main drivers of the shift to portable and then hybrid don't exist in the rest of the world:

1. Nintendo has almost always been the biggest publisher in Japan, but in other places EA and Activision Blizzard can be bigger. The power of Nintendo's software is not as powerful in Europe for example as it is in Japan.

2. Japanese third parties shifted their games to portable consoles due to high costs of HD development, Western third parties didn't do that and I can't see them ever doing that. It would require them to give Switch a lot of exclusives, and at best they will just include Switch in multiplatform development.

 

[Celine]

Top 30 best selling games at retails on NSW/PS4 as early September 2021 (source: Famitsu; through Game Data Library):

Let's see when and where the franchises above were created on:

NES (FC): Super Mario 2D, Momotaro Dentetsu, Dragon Quest (first 3D outing on PS1), Final Fantasy (first somewhat 3D outing on PS1)
GB: Pokemon, Kirby
SNES (SFC): Mario Kart
N64: Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, Mario Party, Super Mario 3D, Zelda 3D (the origin of the series in 2D was on NES/FC. It could be said that BotW open world approach is very distinctive from past Zelda 3D)
PS2: Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts, GTA 3D
GC: Luigi's Mansion
DS: Clubhouse Games
PC (early '10s): Minecraft
WiiU: Splatoon, Mario Maker
Arcade: Taiko no Tatsujin (first console outing on PS2), Fishing Spirits (first console outing on NSW)
NSW: Ring Fit Adventure

Zelda game on a home console in the late the '90s:

Zelda game on a handheld console in the late '90s:

Zelda game on a hybrid console in the late '10s:

Dragon Quest game on a home console in the late '90s:

Dragon Quest game on a handheld console in the late '90s:

Dragon Quest game on a purely home console in the late '10s:

Dragon Quest game on a hybrid console in the late '10s:

Who can understand, will understand.

 

[Goalus]

According to John Welfare Xbox Series X/S outsold Xbox One after only one year on market



It is not a huge deals since it is "only" 120k, but Microsoft is for sure pleased

The green rats of Japan have finally awoken.

 

[MasterDerico]

Not gonna lie, Sony is getting absolutely cooked by Nintendo in Japan. What the heck happened ?!?

I'm surprised Japanese gamers even know what an xbox is lol.

Westernization.
Basically what's Xbox One did on that tv usa only console, but inverted.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You have a point. But this really started with the DS, I think.

It wasn't so much that Japan went mobile. In my opinion it happened naturally. The japanese public looked at the diminshing returns(yes, I'm bringing this up again, because it's relevant) of the graphics on consoles, and said "fuck it". These systems are bulky, I can't take my games anywhere, and the graphics aren't good enough to justify that.

It would have happened no matter what Nintendo or anyone else cooked up. And it's gonna happen in the rest of the world, too. Just a matter of time.

Nintendo used to own Japan and if not for them turning their back on SONY or their silly move to turn their back on CD-Rom would have owned Japan even more. I miss the Nintendo that used to make powerful consoles and the Japan that was the powerhouse of consoles and gaming, but its the Japanese gamer right to choose how they want to play.

Still like I say, what goes around, comes around

 

[Team Andromeda]

Right, Japan loved the PS2 over the more powerful GameCube and Xbox. And the even less powerful GBA sold similarly to PS2 while it was in the market. So clearly power was never the first priority.

Being sad for the decline in Japan of certain franchises I understand.But it is not sadder for Zelda and Monster Hunter to sell 2 million then it is for Resident Evil to do so. It's not sadder for Dragon Quest and Smash Bros to sell 3 million than it is for Final Fantasy to do so.

Listen to the PS2 fanboys it's the most powerful console going *rollseyes*. Japan used to have a vibrant handheld and console sector, now it's all mobile and it's reflected in the charts and in the Japanese developer ability to compete with the huge big Budget western titles and massive team sizes. Almost like a complete reversal of what it was like for Western developers in the 8-bit and 16-bit era compared to their Japanese counterparts

What comes around, goes around.

 

[Celine]

Nintendo used to own Japan and if not for them turning their back on SONY or their silly move to turn their back on CD-Rom would have owned Japan even more. I miss the Nintendo that used to make powerful consoles and the Japan that was the powerhouse of consoles and gaming, but its the Japanese gamer right to choose how they want to play.

Nintendo was almost every year since 1983 the biggest software publisher in Japan however the Nintendo of the first Nintendo reign (1983-1995) was much weaker than the current Nintendo of the second Nintendo reign (2006-??).
The reason is that, even when Nintendo was cornered by japanese third-party publishers banding together during the PlayStation reign (1996-20005), they didn't desist in their mission of creating new software hits with wide appeal for the japanese (and worldwide) audience.
The more mega hit franchises Nintendo produced the stronger grew their influence and in combination with Nintendo peculiar hardware-software integration, Nintendo was able to effectively overthrown the PlayStation's third-party driven ecosystem by relying on their own strength alone and regained the control of the japanese market.
At the same time which saw Nintendo strenghtening, we witnessed the opposite trend with japanese third-party software losing their influence on the japanese mainsteam audience.
The best example to show that downward trend is none other than Square Enix.
Back on the Super Famicom Square (&) Enix's mega hits had the same critical mass appeal as Nintendo's due to them be the kings of the most popular genre in the Country at the time.
Nowadays the RPG genre is heavily consolidated and Square Enix influence is several time smaller.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Nintendo was almost every year since 1983 the biggest software publisher in Japan however the Nintendo of the first Nintendo reign (1983-1995) was much weaker than the current Nintendo of the second Nintendo reign (2006-??).
The reason is that, even when Nintendo was cornered by japanese third-party publishers banding together during the PlayStation reign (1996-20005), they didn't desist in their mission of creating new software hits with wide appeal for the japanese (and worldwide) audience.
The more mega hit franchises Nintendo produced the stronger grew their influence and in combination with Nintendo peculiar hardware-software integration, Nintendo was able to effectively overthrown the PlayStation's third-party driven ecosystem by relying on their own strength alone and regained the control of the japanese market.
At the same time which saw Nintendo strenghtening, we witnessed the opposite trend with japanese third-party software losing their influence on the japanese mainsteam audience.
The best example to show that downward trend is none other than Square Enix.
Back on the Super Famicom Square (&) Enix's mega hits had the same critical mass appeal as Nintendo's due to them be the kings of the most popular genre in the Country at the time.
Nowadays the RPG genre is heavily consolidated and Square Enix influence is several time smaller.

Could you blame 3rd parties for dropping Nintendo? with their restrictive practices and then turning their backs on CD-Rom. Lots of genres have suffered over the years, it not just RPG's in Japan. Remember when Point & Click games were big sellers on the PC. As usual though, one can't find any fault with Nintendo...

 

[Celine]

Not gonna lie, Sony is getting absolutely cooked by Nintendo in Japan. What the heck happened ?!?

The current situation, which see Nintendo totally dominating Japan, was decades in the making.

Here a condensed recap (as condensed as possible for describing 40 years of events):

1) Nintendo launched the Famicom (NES) in 1983 and with it created the mainstream console market in Japan.
The strategy adopted for the platform is first-party driven which setup Nintendo with the ambition to be the number one software publisher in Japan.

2) Third-parties seeing how successful the Famicom was, jumped on board to develop games for it and were forced to submit to Nintendo's rules (remember Nintendo's ambition to be the number one software publisher?).
Since everything was quite new back then, the fortune of those young publishers were linked to the creation of new genres/sensations.
For example the RPG boom (Enix, Square), fighting games boom (Capcom), puzzle games boom (BPS, Nintendo, Banpresto/Compile) and so on.

3) On Super Famicom, while Nintendo was firmly the number one publisher, a group of big third-party publishers achieved a large share of software sales, combined larger than Nintendo (namely Square, Enix and Capcom).

4) Sony introduces in 1994 the first successful third-party driven console.
Japanese publishers jump en mass on board, of particular importance was the contribution of Square (that dragged along Enix) which cemented PS1 as the new market leader by releasing an array of ultra popular games in 1997.
Don't mistake the Nintendo - PlayStation passing of the baton as a mere change of brand, in actuality it was a revolution where the incumbent first-party driven model was superseded by the challenger's unprecedented third-party driven model.

5) Nintendo find itself battling against the rest of industry alone (the only big publishers that supported seriously the N64 were Konami and Hudson Soft).
Their software hits sales potential were limited by the low install base (due to the lack of quantity/variety of software usually provided by third-party publishers) but were still able to create new mega hit franchises.
Read the above post of mine that analyze where and when the franchises that currently dominates the japanese software charts were created.

6) Sony launched PS2 in 2000, all the japanese publishers were already ready to support it even before the console launch.
It continued the PlayStation domination in the Country.

7) In early '00s Nintendo launched its next-gen consoles to mild reception (GBA sold a lot of hardware but software sales were no match for PS2).
The popularity of Nintendo software declines.
At the same time Nintendo publicly warn the industry of the worrying trend of declining software sales in Japan, which for Nintendo is caused by publishers focusing only on core gamers instead to try to cater to a more broad audience.
Third-party publishers responded that software sales may be declining but are still high and dismissed Nintendo pleads to reinvigorite the japanese market as excuses from a company in a weak position.

8) Sony is ready to introduce a new line of PlayStation handheld console to definitely dispose Nintendo from the console business.
Third-party publishers that have earned good money on PS2 prepare to move resources to PSP, as the next logical step to extend the business of games with "PS2-like" budget.

9) Nintendo is ready to introduce their answers to the declining trend shown by the japanese market in the previous years, in the form of hardware-software integrated products: Nintendo DS and Wii.
Third-party publishers don't trust Nintendo new weird consoles and only provide limited support in the beginning.
Nintendo was correct in their assumption both DS and Wii were huge successes in Japan (especially the former).
Nintendo's first party software sales boomed and third-party publishers rushed to support the DS as quickly as possible (instead Wii remained always badly supported by japanese third-parties).

10) PSP became successful in Japan pulled by third-party software hits like Monster Hunter.
It's the last PS console to achieve mainstream popularity in Japan however it failed miserably in its intent to push out Nintendo, in fact the console is merely an also run compared to Nintendo DS.
PS3 has troubled to attain the same success as PS2 and barely sell more than 10 million units.

11) Two very important factors to consider for the period 2006-2016:

- Since 2006 most of the annual software sales are on the Nintendo ecosystem (except 2011) however in almost all the years the PlayStation ecosystem kept receiving the most number of game releases (from third-parties).
This big quantity of game releases weren't just AAA games, a very important contribution was given by the mid/small budget games from third-parties that grew their affiliaton to PlayStation from the PS1 days and that appear only or mostly on PlayStation consoles (and not, or very little, on Nintendo consoles).

- In this period the market was heavily segmented, with each platforms having its own role.
For example even if Capcom had wanted, they couldn't port Monster Hunter on DS without compromising the gameplay.
Games that relied heavily on touch screen/wiimote made no sense on PSP/PS3.
Expansive games that utilized the modern capabilities of PS3 weren't viable on Wii.
In our current present dominated by the idea of multiplatform development this segmentation makes little sense however the japanese industry was used to custom develop for specific hardware since early arcade days/Famicom days so it wasn't actively opposed, at least not until the early/mid '10s.
So in a way, even if PlayStation had lost the leadership of the market, its significance within it was still intact.
However the core issue was that each time Nintendo went upstream with a next-gen hardware (more capable) it would erode the PlayStation position in the market.

12) Nintendo released the 3DS in 2011, the goal was pretty obvious: to terminate the PlayStation line of handheld console.
The announced line up was very PlayStation like (I'm talking about PS1, PS2) and Nintendo secured the exclusivity rights of Monster Hunter (which now could run on the hardware).
The actual performance of 3DS was mixed.
Weak in the west but very good in Japan though the initial push from japanese third-party support waned after the first two, three years in the market.
3DS was a conceptually obsolete console which required custom development for specific hardware and wasn't well suited for digital distribution in a time when the multiplatform development mantra and digital distribution were arising.
WiiU bombed spectacularly in Japan and elsewhere but once again Nintendo created new software hits on it that would become very useful for the future (Splatoon, Mario Maker).

13) Sony prepared to retire from the handheld business and try to converge all its third-party support to PS4 after a brief period of multiplatform development within the PS ecosystem (PS3, PSV, PS4).

14) The checkmate move to PlayStation: Nintendo Switch.
Once again Nintendo introduced an unprecedented piece of hardware whose aim was to destroy the boundary between TV consoles, handheld consoles and tabletop consoles.
Crucially for the first time Nintendo planned from the start to support all the most popular multiplatform engines out of the gate.
In the beginning third-parties didn't trust to support much the new Nintendo console but since Nintendo is a first-party driven console maker that wasn't a problem at all.
When Switch proved it's viability in Japan to great popularity (and in Asia, America and Europe) slowly but surely mid/small budget third-party software that previously were mainly targeting the PlayStation ecosystem began to gravitate on Switch on a permanent basis with multiplatform releases.
This shift is epochal because those mid/small budget games were the backbone of the PlayStation ecosystem, the more third-party software receive multiplatform releases between PlayStation ecosystem and Nintendo ecosystem, the weaker the PlayStation ecosystem will become.
The more third-party software is shared between Switch and PS4/PS5, the more PlayStation will lose its relevancy because Nintendo is the dominant player and those mid/small budget games were part of PS identity, thus making PS more and more redundant.
It's not a coincidence that for the first time in forever the number of game releases on the Nintendo ecosystem was larger than the PlayStation ecosystem in 2020.

You may ask but what about those high budget games that couldn't run on Switch like Final Fantasy XV or the upcoming XVI.
The remaining exclusive third-party high budget games on PS are dwarfed by Nintendo's first-party mega hits and none of them (that couldn't run on Switch) have shown to possess huge pull with the mainstrem market (selling millions of units like the Nintendo mega hits, Minecraft, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Momotaro Dentetsu).
The power balance between Nintendo's mega hits and third-party mega hits is completely different from 1996, now it's heavily in favour of Nintendo.

--------------------------------------

I understand which is hard to visualize 40 years of the japanese market trends without any kind of data (but also data alone won't suffice if there isn't the right context to understand it).
Here you can find an extensive archive of Nintendo's japanese sale data since 1983 (beyond the first post, you'll find charts/graphs that analyze the million sellers in Japan at different point in time):

JAPAN: Nintendo software and hardware sales data from 1983 to present

I'm going to keep this thread updated with new, more up to date info whenever is possible. UPDATED WITH DATA UNTIL MARCH 2024 任天堂 What does the following data represent? The data here presented is either financial data or shipment data provided by Nintendo itself directly from Nintendo's...

www.installbaseforum.com

 

[Celine]

Could you blame 3rd parties for dropping Nintendo? with their restrictive practices and then turning their backs on CD-Rom. Lots of genres have suffered over the years, it not just RPG's in Japan. Remember when Point & Click games were big sellers on the PC. As usual though, one can't find any fault with Nintendo...

I'm not blaming anyone.
All I said is that the Nintendo of today is much much stronger than the Nintendo of 1995.

Nintendo is doing a tremendously better job than all the other japanese publishers combined at catering to the mainstream japanese audience.
Nintendo's first-party software alone accounted for more than half of the package software sales during 2020.
It's a crazy stat if you ask me and have heavy implication especially if one consider that Nintendo is a platform owner.

 

[Woopah]

Listen to the PS2 fanboys it's the most powerful console going *rollseyes*. Japan used to have a vibrant handheld and console sector, now it's all mobile and it's reflected in the charts and in the Japanese developer ability to compete with the huge big Budget western titles and massive team sizes. Almost like a complete reversal of what it was like for Western developers in the 8-bit and 16-bit era compared to their Japanese counterparts

What comes around, goes around.

I don't understand your 'PS2 fanboys' comment. What are you trying to say?

Yes Japan used to have vibrant handheld and console sector, now it has a vibrant hybrid sector and that is reflected in the charts. Hybrid gaming and mobile gaming are co-existing in Japan just like everywhere else.

On the console side Japanese publishers have not been too good at creating appealling software for their domestic market. No arguments from me there. We'll have to see if they turn that around, but from the look of things Japanese publishers will just invest in the console and hybrid markets (as well as PC and mobile) and find success that way. I think that's the right approach for them.

 

[yurinka]

In countless UK boxed sales threads I was told the opposite. Physical game sales appear to be the most important performance indicator, while e.g. player counts are worth nothing because it's mostly reviewers and influencers who drive these numbers.

I posted the numbers above, can be said the same for all countries. Retail game sales are a small porton of PS business. USA as the top country for PS, and UK (or Germany depending on the year) as the top EMEA country are a bit more relevant than Japan, but still pretty irrelevant compared to their total software business.

I'd say the most important performance indicator is their gaming division revenue, followed by software revenue (since typically is their biggest revenue source). Today we're seeing subscriptions and specially add-ons (mtx, DLC, season passes etc) taking a more and more important role, and games being bought super discounted so the amount of sales keep being less and less relevant (a game sold at $70 isn't the same that this game sold at $7 or getting a few cents per copy for being included in a subscription).

 

[yurinka]

I think when Sony shut down their Japan Studio, that pretty much tells you that they don't really care about Japan market anymore...

Sony didn't shut down Japan Studio, they restructured it. They will continue making internal games as Team Asobi (which is growing, has many job offers open like their other Sony studios) like Astrobot and publishing 2nd party games like Demon's Souls or Death Stranding Director's Cut from their XDEV Japanese team (who now is under XDEV instead of under Japan Studio, and is also growing).

They also continue making 1st party Japanese games with Polyphony like Gran Turismo 7 and will continue getting 3rd party exclusives like FFVIIR Intergrade, Guilty Gear Strive, Forspoken and many others. They also signed a deal with Kadokawa (who made dozens of PS exclusive games since PS1) to help them bring their games to a more global market.

 

[KingGhidorah]

Sony didn't shut down Japan Studio, they restructured it. They will continue making internal games as Team Asobi (which is growing, has many job offers open like their other Sony studios) like Astrobot and publishing 2nd party games like Demon's Souls or Death Stranding Director's Cut from their XDEV Japanese team (who now is under XDEV instead of under Japan Studio, and is also growing).

They also continue making 1st party Japanese games with Polyphony like Gran Turismo 7 and will continue getting 3rd party exclusives like FFVIIR Intergrade, Guilty Gear Strive, Forspoken and many others. They also signed a deal with Kadokawa (who made dozens of PS exclusive games since PS1) to help them bring their games to a more global market.

they shut it down. Restructuring is just a nice way to put it. People started leaving before they 'merged' it to Team Asobi, so that meant people weren't happy of the way things were going

 

[silpheed-mcd]

ComG! Orders, 11/08/21 - 11/14/21

Shin Megami Tensei V: 193 pt
COD Vanguard: 63 pt

 

[silpheed-mcd]

TSUTAYA Orders, 11/08/21 - 11/14/21

 

[Goalus]

I posted the numbers above, can be said the same for all countries. Retail game sales are a small porton of PS business. USA as the top country for PS, and UK (or Germany depending on the year) as the top EMEA country are a bit more relevant than Japan, but still pretty irrelevant compared to their total software business.

I'd say the most important performance indicator is their gaming division revenue, followed by software revenue (since typically is their biggest revenue source). Today we're seeing subscriptions and specially add-ons (mtx, DLC, season passes etc) taking a more and more important role, and games being bought super discounted so the amount of sales keep being less and less relevant (a game sold at $70 isn't the same that this game sold at $7 or getting a few cents per copy for being included in a subscription).

Wow, sounds all very reasonable. A rare sight in threads about sales.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I'm not blaming anyone.
All I said is that the Nintendo of today is much much stronger than the Nintendo of 1995.

Nintendo is doing a tremendously better job than all the other japanese publishers combined at catering to the mainstream japanese audience.
Nintendo's first-party software alone accounted for more than half of the package software sales during 2020.
It's a crazy stat if you ask me and have heavy implication especially if one consider that Nintendo is a platform owner.

That depends even in the early 90's Nintendo owned 92% of Japan and back then Nintendo was making powerful consoles and actually making games and new IPs.
These days its endless sequels to Mario and Zelda and a new NCL game every 3 to 4 years.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I don't understand your 'PS2 fanboys' comment. What are you trying to say?

Yes Japan used to have vibrant handheld and console sector, now it has a vibrant hybrid sector and that is reflected in the charts. Hybrid gaming and mobile gaming are co-existing in Japan just like everywhere else.

On the console side Japanese publishers have not been too good at creating appealling software for their domestic market. No arguments from me there. We'll have to see if they turn that around, but from the look of things Japanese publishers will just invest in the console and hybrid markets (as well as PC and mobile) and find success that way. I think that's the right approach for them.

Don't you remember the PS2 was meant to be able to handle 72 million polygons a second and Toy Story level of graphics in real time? The trouble is with Japan is it gone totally for the mobile for gaming, whereas in the west, it's still the console under the TV, that people look to game on.

 

[yurinka]

they shut it down. Restructuring is just a nice way to put it. People started leaving before they 'merged' it to Team Asobi, so that meant people weren't happy of the way things were going

They didn't shut it down because they still exist and they continue doing the same thing they already did before. As happened in America, their Japanese XDEV team now reports to XDEV instead of being included inside an internal development studio (in the case of America it was Sony Santa Monica).

Now all their XDEV teams around the world work as a single team and aren't included inside the structure of a studio but continue doing the same job. In the case of their XDEV Japanese team that was inside Japan Studio published Death Stranding Director's Cut after the restructur, a game that accoding to you doesn't exist because they are shut down, but the reality is that they exist, published this game and are hiring to grow.

Same happens with the internal development part of Japan Studio. In this restructuring in addition to separate the XDEV 2nd party publishing team, they reduced internal development part and focused all of it into one of the Japan Studio internal teams (Team Asobi) because they want to make less games like Knack and more games like Astro. So now Team Asobi is way bigger and it's the single development team of the now smaller Japan Studio, so they also rebranded Japan Studio to Team Asobi. The team is now working in developing internal games and is hiring in like a dozen different positions.

This process also meant many people was fired and the management was replaced, as a result of not being able to release a single sales hit in decades after dozens of games, some of them money pits or at least unprofitable. Changes were needed since many years ago but nobody never did anything, unlike in their western studios where they had less patience and did shut down -for real- studios that were unsuccessful with a few games.

 

[Max Payne’s Baretta]

Don't you remember the PS2 was meant to be able to handle 72 million polygons a second and Toy Story level of graphics in real time? The trouble is with Japan is it gone totally for the mobile for gaming, whereas in the west, it's still the console under the TV, that people look to game on.

I def remember Sony said this lmaooooo - Oh man im old.

 

[Woopah]

Don't you remember the PS2 was meant to be able to handle 72 million polygons a second and Toy Story level of graphics in real time? The trouble is with Japan is it gone totally for the mobile for gaming, whereas in the west, it's still the console under the TV, that people look to game on.

Whatever marketing Sony did the truth is that the PS2 was less powerful than GameCube and Xbox. But no one really cared as power wasn't that important. Games were.

Japan has a strong hybrid sector and a strong mobile sector, and both of those sectors are strong in the West as well. It is true that the software issues for PlayStation have led to a decline in the stationary console market in Japan, so we'll have to see if they can turn it around. What Sony needs for Japan is a Splatoon or Monster Hunter level hit that can revive their fortunes.

These days its endless sequels to Mario and Zelda and a new NCL game every 3 to 4 years.

This simply isn't true. Nintendo has made more successful new IP in Japan than any other publisher in the past 15 years. It's a big reason for their success.

 

[Team Andromeda]

This simply isn't true. Nintendo has made more successful new IP in Japan than any other publisher in the past 15 years. It's a big reason for their success.

Yeah right, talk out Splatoon and Arms and NCL haven't made a new IP in decades. Its endless sequels to Mario and Zelda

 

[Team Andromeda]

I def remember Sony said this lmaooooo - Oh man im old.

I think SONY said it was 75 million polygons thinking back

 

[Bodomism]

Japanese retailers should've realized by now with that ~80% unsold copies.

 

[Woopah]

Yeah right, talk out Splatoon and Arms and NCL haven't made a new IP in decades. Its endless sequels to Mario and Zelda

Again this is false information. In this week's top 30 alone there are at least 6 Nintendo games that are not Mario or Zelda.

On new IPs, below is the list of new IPs published by Nintendo in the last two decades that have sold over 500,000 physical copies in Japan alone:

• Brain Age (2005)
• Nintendogs (2005)
• Wii Sports (2006)
• Cooking Navi (2006)
• Rhythm Tengoku (2006)
• Style Savy (2008)
• Tomadachi Collection (2009)
• Splatoon (2015)
• Ring Fit Adventure (2019)

Obviously there are many new IPs they have published that did not hit that figure (Arms, Astral Chain, Buddy Mission Bond etc.) but I just wanted to highlight the biggest ones.

 

[silpheed-mcd]

Akiba, Tokyo

 

[Woopah]

Thanks for the photos silpheed-mcd !

 

[carlosrox]

Yeah right, talk out Splatoon and Arms and NCL haven't made a new IP in decades. Its endless sequels to Mario and Zelda

So take out all their new IPs and they don't have any new IPs, gotcha.

 

[Celine]

That depends even in the early 90's Nintendo owned 92% of Japan and back then Nintendo was making powerful consoles and actually making games and new IPs.
These days its endless sequels to Mario and Zelda and a new NCL game every 3 to 4 years.

No, that does NOT "depends".
What I said about Nintendo being far stronger now than in 1995 is a fact based on historical sales data.

Shipment data for Japan:

Total sales of the million sellers produced by Nintendo on NES (FC), GB, SNES (SFC), N64, GBA, GC (roughly the period 1983-2004)
= 124.73 million units

Total sales of the million sellers produced by Nintendo on DS, Wii, 3DS, WiiU, NSW (roughly the period 2005-2021)
= 202.41 million units

A lot of Nintendo big mainstay were created after 1995 and are reaching the biggest peak yet on NSW.

 

[silpheed-mcd]

SWITCH VS NINTENDO HISTORY

[UPDATE]
Captain Toad

[NSW] MK8D: 38,74m
[WII] MK: 37,38m
[NDS] MK DS: 23,6m
[3DS] MK 7: 18,95m
[N64] MK64: 9,87m
[SNES] SMK: 8,76m
[WIIU] MK8: 8,45m
[NGC] MK: Double Dash: 6,88m
[GBA] MK: Super Circuit: 5,91m
[NSW] Mario Kart Live: Home Circuit – 1,08m

[NSW] ACNH: 34,85m
[3DS] AC New Leaf: 12,97m
[NDS] AC Wild World: 11,75m
[WII] AC: Let's Go to the City: 4,32m
[NGC] AC: 2,27m

[GB] Pokemon Red/Blue/Green: 31,05m
[GB] Pokemon Gold Silver: 23,73m
[NSW] Pokemon Sword/Shield: 22,64m
[NDS] Pokemon Diamond/Pearl: 17,67m
[3DS] Pokemon X/Y: 16,58m
[3DS] Pokemon Sun/Moon: 16,27m
[GBA] Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire: 16,22m
[NDS] Pokemon Black/White: 15,64m
[GB] Pokemon Yellow: 14,64m
[3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: 14,39m
[NSW] Pokemon: Let's Go, Pikachu!/Eevee!: 13,83m
[NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver: 12,72m
[GBA] Pokemon Red Fire/Green Leaf: 12m
[3DS] Pokemon Ultra Sun/ Ultra Moon: 8,98m
[NDS] Pokemon Black2/White2: 8,52m
[GBA] Pokemon Emerald: 7,06m
[GB] Pokemon Crystal: 6,39m

[NSW] SSBUltimate: 25,71m
[WII] SSBB: 13,32m
[3DS] SSBU For N3DS: 9,63m
[NGC] SBM: 7,41m
[N64] SSB: 5,55m
[WIIU] SSB For WIIU: 5,38m

[NSW] Zelda: BOTW: 24,13m
[N64] Zelda: OOT: 7,6m
[WII] Zelda: Twilight Princess: 7,26m
[NES] The Legend of Zelda: 6,51m
[3DS] Zelda: OOT 3D: 6,22m
[WII] Link's Crossbow Training - 5,79m
[NSW] Zelda: Link's Awakening: 5,49m
[NDS] Zelda: Phantom Hourglass: 4,76m
[SNES] Zelda: A Link to the Past: 4,61m
[NGC] Zelda: Windwaker: 4,43m
[NES] Zelda: Adventure of Link: 4,38m
[3DS] Zelda: A Link Between Worlds: 4,16m
[GB] Zelda: Oracle of Ages / Seasons: 3,99m
[GB] Zelda: Link's Awakening: 3,83m
[WII] Zelda: Skyward Sword: 3,67m
[NSW] Zelda: Skyward Sword: 3,6m
[N64] Zelda: Majora's Mask: 3,36 m
[3DS] Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D: 3,28m
[NDS] Zelda: Spirit Tracks: 2,96m
[GBA] Zelda: A Link to the Past: 2,82m
[WIIU] Zelda: WindWaker HD: 2,33m
[GB] Zelda: Link's Awakening DX: 2,22m
[GBA] Zelda: The Minish Cap: 1,76 m
[WIIU] Zelda: BOTW: 1,69m
[NGC] Zelda: Twilight Princess: 1,43 m
[3DS] Zelda: Triforce Heroes: 1,34m
[WIIU] Zelda: Twilight Princess HD: 1,13m



MARIO 3D

[NSW] Super Mario Odyssey: 21,95m
[3DS] Super Mario 3D land: 12,81m
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy: 12,8m
[N64] Super Mario Galaxy: 11,91m
[NDS] Super Mario 64 DS: 11,01m
[NSW] Super Mario 3D All-Stars: 9,01m
[NSW] Super Mario 3D-World + Bowser's Fury: 7,45m
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy: 7,41m
[NGC] Super Mario Sunshine: 5,91m
[WIIU] Super Mario 3D-World: 5,87m

[NSW] Super Mario Party: 16,48m
[WII] Mario Party 8: 8,85m
[WII] Mario Party 9: 3,11m
[N64] Mario Party: 2,7m
[N64] Mario Party 2: 2,48m
[NGC] Mario Party 4: 2,46m
[WIIU] Mario Party 10: 2,25m
[NGC] Mario Party 5: 2,17m
[NGC] Mario Party 7: 2,08m
[N64] Mario Party 3: 1,91m
[NGC] Mario Party 6: 1,63m

[NSW] Splatoon 2: 12,68m
[WIIU] Splatoon: 4,95m

[NSW] Luigi’s Mansion 3: 9,59m
[3DS] Luigi’s Mansion 2: 6,33m
[NGC] Luigi’s Mansion: 3,33m

[WII] Wii Sports: 82,9m
[WII] Wii Sports Resort: 33,14m
[WII] Wii Fit: 22,67m
[WII] Wii Fit Plus: 21,13m
[NSW] Ring Fit Adventure: 12,21m

[SNES] Donkey Kong Country - 9,3m
[WII] Donkey Kong Country Returns - 6,53m
[N64] Donkey Kong 64 - 5,27m
[SNES] Donkey Kong Country 2 - 5,15m
[SNES] Donkey Kong Country 3 - 3,51m
[NSW] Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze - 2,93m
[WIIU] Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze - 2,01m
[NES] Donkey Kong Classics - 1,56m
[NES] Donkey Kong - 1,13m
[NES] Donkey Kong JR - 1,11m

[NSW] Super Mario Maker 2: 7,15m
[WIIU] Super Mario Maker: 4,02m
[3DS] Super Mario Maker: 3,68m

[GB] Kirby's Dreamland - 5,13m
[NSW] Kirby Star Allies - 3,15m
[NDS] Kirby Superstar Ultra - 2,99m
[3DS] Kirby Triple Deluxe - 2,61m
[GB] Kirby's Dreamland 2 - 2,36m
[NDS] Kirby Mouse Attack - 2,27m
[GB] Kirby's Pinball Land - 2,19m
[GBA] Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland - 2,1m
[WII] Kirby's Epic Yarn - 1,85m
[WII] Kirby's Adventure - 1,79m
[N64] Kirby 64 - 1,77m
[NES] Kirby's Adventure - 1,75m
[3DS] Kirby: Planet Robobot - 1,59m
[GBA] Kirby and the Amazing Mirror - 1,47m
[SNES] Kirby Super Star - 1,44m
[GC] Kirby Air Ride - 1,35m
[GB] Kirby Tilt'N'Tumble - 1,23m
[NDS] Kirby Mass Attack - 1,22m

[WII] Super Paper Mario: 4,23m
[NSW] Paper Mario: The Origami King: 3,12m
[NGC] Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door: 1,91m
[N64] Paper Mario: 1,37m

[SNES] Yoshi's Island - 4,12m
[NDS] Yoshi's Island DS - 3,36m
[GB] Yoshi - 3,12m
[N64] Yoshi's Story - 2,85m
[GBA] Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3 - 2,83m
[NSW] Yoshi's Crafted World - 2,09m
[3DS] Yoshi's New Island - 2,03m
[NES] Yoshi - 1,75m
[WIIU] Yoshi's Wooly World - 1,56m
[GB] Yoshi's Cookie - 1,53m
[NES] Yoshi's Cookie - 1,12m

[N64] Pokemon Snap: 3,63m
[NSW] New Pokemon Snap: 2,19m

[NSW] Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics: 3,14m
[NDS] 42 All-Time Classics: 2,57m

[NSW] Mario Tennis Aces - 3,29m
[N64] Mario Tennis 64 - 2,32m
[3DS] Mario Tennis Open - 1,57m
[NGC] Mario Power Tennis - 1,16m

[NSW] Fire Emblem: Three Houses - 3,02m
[3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - 3m
[3DS] Fire Emblem Awakening - 2,31m

[NSW] Xenoblade Chronicles 2: 2,05m
[NSW] Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition: 1,52m

[NSW] Pikmin 3 DX: 2,04m
[NGC] Pikmin: 1,6m
[WIIU] Pikmin 3: 1,27m
[NGC] Pikmin 2: 1,12m

[NSW] Mario Golf: Super Rush: 1,94m
[N64] Mario Golf 64: 1,47m
[GC] Mario Golf Toadstool Tour: 1,27m
[NES] NES Open Tournament Golf: 1m

[NSW] Captain Toad Treasure Tracker: 1,58m
[WIIU] Captain Toad Treasure Tracker: 1,36m

[NSW] Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01: Variety Kit: 1,37m
[NSW] Mario Kart Live: Home Circuit – 1,27m

[NSW] Miitopia: 1,37m
[3DS] Miitopia: 1,18m

DS: 154,02m
GB + GBC: 118,69m
Wii: 101,63m
NSW: 92,87m
GBA: 81,51m
3DS: 75,94m


SWITCH VS NINTENDO HISTORY, 1st places

SWITCH: 17
Nintendo History: 7

 

[KingGhidorah]

Switch is a little beast! I think Nintendo is going to let Switch run all the way to get that PS2 console record...

 

[silpheed-mcd]

GEO preorders

 

[Scotty W]

Not gonna lie, Sony is getting absolutely cooked by Nintendo in Japan. What the heck happened ?!?

I'm surprised Japanese gamers even know what an xbox is lol.

I met a 13 year old Japanese boy recently who had never heard of Halo.

Everyone is obsessed with Apex Legends, Minecraft and Animal Crossing.

 

[Woopah]

Switch is a little beast! I think Nintendo is going to let Switch run all the way to get that PS2 console record...

It might beat the PS2 record, but I really don't think that's something Nintendo cares about.

 

[silpheed-mcd]

[UPDATE]

[NSW] Captain Toad Treasure Tracker: 1,58m
[WIIU] Captain Toad Treasure Tracker: 1,36m

 

[Bodomism]

It might beat the PS2 record, but I really don't think that's something Nintendo cares about.

That's certainly true for Nintendo, since PS2 only made around 2.8bn USD in profits and Nintendo Switch has already made nearly 15bn USD in profits.

 

[Woopah]

That's certainly true for Nintendo, since PS2 only made around 2.8bn USD in profits and Nintendo Switch has already made nearly 15bn USD in profits.

Nintendo will be more concerned with comparing results with their own targets and plans rather than with Sony's.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Again this is false information. In this week's top 30 alone there are at least 6 Nintendo games that are not Mario or Zelda.

On new IPs, below is the list of new IPs published by Nintendo in the last two decades that have sold over 500,000 physical copies in Japan alone:

• Brain Age (2005)
• Nintendogs (2005)
• Wii Sports (2006)
• Cooking Navi (2006)
• Rhythm Tengoku (2006)
• Style Savy (2008)
• Tomadachi Collection (2009)
• Splatoon (2015)
• Ring Fit Adventure (2019)

Obviously there are many new IPs they have published that did not hit that figure (Arms, Astral Chain, Buddy Mission Bond etc.) but I just wanted to highlight the biggest ones.

Try In-House from NCL and then come back to me.

 

[Team Andromeda]

No, that does NOT "depends".
What I said about Nintendo being far stronger now than in 1995 is a fact based on historical sales data.

Shipment data for Japan:

Total sales of the million sellers produced by Nintendo on NES (FC), GB, SNES (SFC), N64, GBA, GC (roughly the period 1983-2004)
= 124.73 million units

Total sales of the million sellers produced by Nintendo on DS, Wii, 3DS, WiiU, NSW (roughly the period 2005-2021)
= 202.41 million units

A lot of Nintendo big mainstay were created after 1995 and are reaching the biggest peak yet on NSW.

Of coruse it depends. In money terms Xbox made more money off the One than the 360, but suffered when it came to Marketshare

In the 1990s NCL owned Japan with 90% of the market but was also able to compete in the console and handheld sector separately.
Very different to the NCL of today that's given up on the Console market and allowed SONY and MS to own that space. I miss the NCL that made powerful consoles and also made quite a lot of new IP IN-House

 

[Team Andromeda]

So take out all their new IPs and they don't have any new IPs, gotcha.

Instead of trying to twist and turn what one said. How about you name me the new IP made in-House by NCL over the last 10 years?

 

[Bryank75]

I really don't understand why Sony isn't on PlayStation leadership hard with such terrible figures....

There is absolutely NO REASON that Japan should be getting less than 50k units per week and possibly close to 100k some weeks.
10k just seems like a joke and almost abusive to the fans in the home country of the brand.

Another symptom of the illness that is Jim Ryan and his clueless, out of touch leadership....

 

[Woopah]

Try In-House from NCL and then come back to me.

Here is the list in-house

• Brain Age (2005)
• Nintendogs (2005)
• Wii Sports (2006)
• Rhythm Tengoku (2006)
• Tomadachi Collection (2009)
• Splatoon (2015)
• Ring Fit Adventure (2019)

Why does it being in-house matter though? NCL is a publisher and publishers working with studios they don't own is completely normal. NCl has operated this way for decades.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Here is the list in-house

• Brain Age (2005)
• Nintendogs (2005)
• Wii Sports (2006)
• Rhythm Tengoku (2006)
• Tomadachi Collection (2009)
• Splatoon (2015)
• Ring Fit Adventure (2019)

Why does it being in-house matter though? NCL is a publisher and publishers working with studios they don't own is completely normal. NCl has operated this way for decades.

The need to go back to Handhelds, it be like listing MS In-House PC games of the past.
When it comes to console gaming, NCL churns out the same old sequels each time Splatoon IP was the one great exception and just showed what could happen when NCL allowed their teams do try something new. Arms wasn't bad either.
But let's look forward to more sequels to Mario and Zelda Smash Bro, Yoshi and Mario Tennis/Golf sequels outsourced

It's the Nintendo way.