Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I thought that was rude to married women though?
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Female entrepreneurs invent male co-founder to avoid sexist discrimination
- Thread starter badboy78660
- Start date
I thought that was rude to married women though?
Duane Cunningham
Member
I don't really like "ok, boys" much either. I used to work with this horrible person who would refer to the art dept as "the boys". "I'll get 'the boys' to do that right away"... it always pissed me off. It was partially because this person was just a unabashed authority assumer, and this was just another way the person would get a jerky little extra bit of authority in.
Ms isn't Miss. Ms is marriage-neutral.
Reminds me to PoC businessmen that hire white-skinned people to represent their companies/brands, while concealing their own presence. Which --of course-- automatically improves the disposition of customers in general. Insane:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-black-entrepreneurs-downplay-ownership-bsi-20160414-story.html
Granted, this behavior is not unique in US. CEOs tend to have certain physical traits (tall, white, slender/fit, handsome) that not necessarily match the owner ones.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-black-entrepreneurs-downplay-ownership-bsi-20160414-story.html
Granted, this behavior is not unique in US. CEOs tend to have certain physical traits (tall, white, slender/fit, handsome) that not necessarily match the owner ones.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Um, they're women, not girls, and their gender is irrelevant, so why is the sexist asshole even mentioning it?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
As someone who loathes woo-woo crystal bullshit... Remind us why is this relevant to the discussion, again?
Link doesn't work :\ Tells me I need a 'google apps' account. It usually goes something like:
Good afternoon ladies,
Here are the files you requested. Please review and let me know of any feedback, blah blah blah.
Yeah, I do work with mostly women, and am mostly responding to e-mails with 4-5 women in copy and we have really good working relationships.
I would never refer to them as girls, and yeah, that does sound pretty condescending.
I'll ask. I've been interfacing with most of them for years, inside and outside of work so they'd be cool with answering that.
Vermillion
Banned
When my company was primarily female, my CEO would have the men in the office write some emails/talk on the phone because she believed she wouldn't be taken seriously. It sucks out there
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly, "guys" in this context is pretty gender neutral. Women call each other "guys" all the time like with "Come on, guys." etc.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I stated it was perhaps my bias. I already noted that when it was brought up.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Should have gone with Remy Steel.
Like literally that level of fuckery they had to fight against, but that was a 1980s comedy PI show.
My first thought.
StopMakingSense
Member
Yup, and not to stir the pot, but there was a lot of that denial, and "you're just taking it wrong" during the election as well.
I remember we had a thread in the past 9 months or so about a black entrepreneur who had to make one of his white male employees his fake "partner" in order to handle face-to-face dealings with White Guys from other companies/financial institutions/the public/etc.
As much as I support the ingenuity of women and non-White guys who resort to this tactic in order to allow their businesses a chance to thrive I FUCKING HATE that these actions ultimately just continue the perpetuation of White [Male] Supremacy. White People, especially White Males are going to have to fucking learn that they have to treat PEOPLE who do not look like them as equals.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I need to go back to Dog School.
Crimsonlink
Member
Its a professional email. Sir, Madam, Ladies, Gentlemen, Mr, Ms, Mrs and etc are the appropriate words to use over "girls" of all words.
I'm shocked at how casual some of the posters in here are with their emails introduction if its in a professional setting. I mean if its OK for your work then sure buts its very surprising.
Using girls with my female managers would lead me to get a small warning before disciple is involved for repeated incidents. Of course this depends on your work.
Originally guys was used for both genders.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
It's condescending as hell.
I do wonder to how much degree it cuts the other way -- white execs losing potential business because of their assumption as being superior. Worked in car plants when I started out of college, and a lot of the Japanese managers would confide w/ me that they were much more comfortable working w/ me (Japanese) rather than some white guy. At my current workplace our execs have courted a few Japanese based companies for us to do work with, and AFAIK nothing's come of them. One I happened to run into as they were waiting for sales to come down, but otherwise I haven't been brought into the conversation at all or to facilitate anything.
Is this a serious question?
I learned from an old boss of mine to use a generically personal opener and closer to all official emails, and maintaining a neutral, fact-based message in the body that presents the facts, or supporting evidence for a case, dispassionately. This is not text messaging. This is correspondence of an official capacity that is permanently recorded and filed, and can be brought up years later in a potentially incriminating manner/matter.
On any initial correspondence my emails always start...
"Hi Ms. Beckinsale,"
(or more likely given my particular field of work -- research biology)
"Hi Dr. Beckinsale,"
I work with Dr. Blah Blahmore at The OG West Coast Eye Institute. We we're interested in ...
Now, if we've already exchanged several emails, then I'll start using their first name --
"Hi Kate," or "Kate," (if it's someone with whom I correspond on a daily/nearly daily basis)
If it's directed at more than one individual,
"Hi Kate, Rihanna, Taylor,"
If it's directed at everyone at the company,
"Hi everyone," or simply "Hi,"
This is how I close virtually all of my emails:
"Regards,"
That's it. Protect yourself, friends. Treat everyone as someone who could potentially ruin your career... with kid gloves... and make sure you never type anything you may come to regret.
Yes, this is the same manner by which I address my boss and coworkers, some of whom I've worked with for over seven years.
I wouldn't even dream of typing out "Hi girls," in anything even remotely approaching official, or anything potentially tacked on/forwarded as part of a long email chain.
On any initial correspondence my emails always start...
"Hi Ms. Beckinsale,"
(or more likely given my particular field of work -- research biology)
"Hi Dr. Beckinsale,"
I work with Dr. Blah Blahmore at The OG West Coast Eye Institute. We we're interested in ...
Now, if we've already exchanged several emails, then I'll start using their first name --
"Hi Kate," or "Kate," (if it's someone with whom I correspond on a daily/nearly daily basis)
If it's directed at more than one individual,
"Hi Kate, Rihanna, Taylor,"
If it's directed at everyone at the company,
"Hi everyone," or simply "Hi,"
This is how I close virtually all of my emails:
"Regards,"
That's it. Protect yourself, friends. Treat everyone as someone who could potentially ruin your career... with kid gloves... and make sure you never type anything you may come to regret.
Yes, this is the same manner by which I address my boss and coworkers, some of whom I've worked with for over seven years.
I wouldn't even dream of typing out "Hi girls," in anything even remotely approaching official, or anything potentially tacked on/forwarded as part of a long email chain.
Vicetrailia
Member
No surprise. Men think women don't know anything abut tech.
Also the CEO of a former company that I worked for felt it necessary to explicitly get white men in high ranking positions in order to recieve more respect from law firms. Yes they were qualified and everything like everyone else, but the point is he had too many women and minorities in upper management positions, and firms didn't like the lack of white men.
Also the CEO of a former company that I worked for felt it necessary to explicitly get white men in high ranking positions in order to recieve more respect from law firms. Yes they were qualified and everything like everyone else, but the point is he had too many women and minorities in upper management positions, and firms didn't like the lack of white men.
Gentleman Jack
Member
When is the last time you spoke to a potential employer with that tone?
lol ... maybe not for white people.
InfiniDragon
Member
As a guy I hate that this is a thing so damn much...
...But this is also true. "Boy" abso-fucking-lutely can be seen as condescending by men (particularly black men) and women better not be referring to grown men they aren't familiar with as such. Stick with gender neutral stuff or professional terms when you're being professional. Folks is my go-to.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Wait, now people know Keith Mann doesn't exist
You don't greet a potential employer by e-mailing them that opener as if they were your life long pals.
As a rule of thumb, you address a woman as Ms. unless she herself asks otherwise, married women rarely take offense to not being called Mrs. and young women will ALWAYS take offence to being called Mrs. if they're not married.
It is one of the first things you're taught upon entering a sales position.
Their business is established now.