It is!
That is pleasant to hear.I thought it was gonna be action due to the open world nature of the game.
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Final Fantasy VII Remake: Nomura Confirms Combat is Action Based
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
It is!
That is pleasant to hear.I thought it was gonna be action due to the open world nature of the game.
Adam_Vania
Banned
action-based, turn-based, i think the difference isn't really as big as people make it out to be. you are still mashing a button to tell your character what to do. it's just now you can hold that button down instead of waiting for a minute for everybody to take their turns.
Think KH. Action based gameplay but there is still a command menu present.
LordKasual
Banned
This is going to make you specifically very angry
But really graphically impressive real-time battles are possible too
Just look at FFXV
Trolling aside, i actually agree with you to an extent. If a game like FFXV rendered its battles in instanced spaces and funneled the majority of its resources into pushing pure visuals, it would probably look absolutely mindblowing.
Thats what I thought FFVII remake was going to be -- Turn based interface that controls real-time, AI-controlled action sequences.
But I guess Square figures that if they're able to render action combat at all, they might as well put you in full control of it.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
better be footage at E3 or we Wyatt
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
| Praxis |
Banned
So it's the combat equivelant of fireworks. Great!
The problem as I just pointed out above, is that in FFXV you don't require strategy of any kind whether you're under or overleveled, you approach combat the exact same way every single time.
Even worse, when there are moments when they could have created interesting boss fights, for example an entire chapter is just a fight with a Malboro and instead of using this fight, which has a static arena, to have interesting mechanics, they just made it an unwinnable fight that ends with a QTE. It involves no skill, no strategy, it makes no use of mechanics you learn through fighting regular battles. It's just a health sponge waste of time.
The only boss fight in the game where they properly mix spectacle with mechanics is Aranea, except it's still clunky as fuck and you're left fighting the camera more than the boss itself. From that point on, it's purely QTE's and whittling down health sponges the same exact way you'd whittle down field enemies.
Good RPG game design (really, any genre game design) teaches you mechanics and then presents you with a boss as a challenge to make use of the mechanics you just learned. Trial and error. Because the game puts fail states so out of reach unless you're a complete idiot, there really is no trial and error, there's just 'whack it till its dead'.
ethomaz
Banned
That is exactly why people are scared... FFXV is the bad example of battle system.Just look at FFXV
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
My thoughts exactly
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
^^LordKasual don't do this aren't you tired of going back and forth with the same ppl since last year..
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, but that's one game. It is not a standard.
Glass Rebel
Member
Instead of the crappy combat system of the original we're getting a new crappy combat system. Cool, keeping the spirit intact.
When people say "you only pressed X" they mean "you only selected 'Attack'" from the command menu (the default menu selection), which is true for majority of non-boss-battles in FFs since at least FFVI. You can do more, but you don't have to. Tbf, probably the same with FFXV in most main story battles, yeah (especially with Control Type B where it felt like you almost couldn't miss any dodge/parry windows when you just held down L1 whiling attacking). You can button-mash in FFXV, or you could play stylishly by using dodge rolls, blindside attacks, Air Step, Blink Boost, Impervious etc.
I don't see how FFVII-XII involved more strategy outside of boss-battles. When have you replayed them lately?
This is going to make you specifically very angry
But really graphically impressive real-time battles are possible too
Just look at FFXV
Trolling aside, i actually agree with you to an extent. If a game like FFXV rendered its battles in instanced spaces and funneled the majority of its resources into pushing pure visuals, it would probably look absolutely mindblowing.
Thats what I thought FFVII remake was going to be -- Turn based interface that controls real-time, AI-controlled action sequences.
But I guess Square figures that if they're able to render action combat at all, they might as well put you in full control of it.
I agree with you!
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
The worst part of action based systems is that you're shoehorned into one character at a time. The feeling of having full control of your party is something that helps make those different characters shine that without often makes any character feel completely interchangeable. Makes me wonder how they'll handle limit breaks.
Bolivar687
Banned
That is exactly what the Final Fantasy VII Remake should be.
TheKastorian
Member
I thought FFXV's battle system was very fun and intuitive, so that's great! Just hope the magic system in FFVII:R is based on Materia.
It's not like the original has disappeared from the planet. If you want to play it turn based just play the original. PS4 has a PC port that also has the sped up turn based options.
Even if that were true, as there are clear examples of random battles requiring the use of magic and abilities to kill monsters optimally throughout the games we're talking about, we're conceding that FFXV doesn't involve strategy in the few boss battles it has. Which, for Final Fantasy fans, should be unforgivable, but alas.
The things you listed as stylish are pretty subjective - and Impervious and air combat are mechanics locked behind hundreds and hundreds of AP, so it's not something you'd get to experience through normal gameplay, they're post-game mechanics that basically just make grinding levels for the sake of grinding levels easier.
One of the primary reasons people wanted FF7 to be remade is because they want their positive experiences with it to be experienced by new generations of gamers - the original FF7 is, unfortunately, a fucking eyesore and by modern game design standards it could absolutely be tightened up. If you're looking for a 'definitive' way to experience FF7, the PS4 re-release adds cheat codes to your face buttons to bypass game systems, removing the 'game' from the 'game', that you can turn on by accident. To me, that's absolutely unacceptable. Someone playing a game with infinite HP and only ever executing limit breaks aren't playing Final Fantasy 7, they're playing Telltale's Final Fantasy 7. At that point you might as well just be watching a Let's Play.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Augemitbutter
Member
sucks but i don't expect a good turn based battle sys from them anyway for the next 5 years. FFXV was so garbage in the battle departement. don't fuck this up. not everyone wants mushy autowin battles. you should do better than that with your most anticipated game. you already sacrificed XV.
The Last One
Member
This. The Remake is still an RPG anyway but action oriented.
Worried they're going to fuck up the whole game by doing this.
The problem with all the "good" examples (KH, FFXV) is that you never control more than one person. If they have to make that same sacrifice in this to appease their decision, it's going to become a game that isn't FF7.
The problem with all the "good" examples (KH, FFXV) is that you never control more than one person. If they have to make that same sacrifice in this to appease their decision, it's going to become a game that isn't FF7.
Gunslinger
Member
I liked FF15 combat so I may like this one. What puts me off is the episodic structure ewwwwwwww....
LordKasual
Banned
Nah, I disagree. XV shows a glimpse of the full potential of what Final Fantasy battles could be like. People are just unable to think outside the little hate box they've generated in their heads when it comes to how it applies to FF7:R.
Just look at the difference in attacks and animations in FF7:R and FFXV. Noctis uses slower, grounded, weighted attacks. With the exception of warpstriking or airstepping, majority of his animations are deliberate and entirely performable by actual humans in real life. His strikes mostly only hit one single enemy. The greatsword is super slow and requires commitment. There is air combat, but no launching or juggling. Medium to Large enemies only flinch if you manage to hit them in the right area or render them vulnerable.
By contrast, look at Cloud's attacks in the remake. He's swinging that giant sword around like its a twig, hitting everything around him with blazing fast combos. The reason XV's combat probably feels "clunky" or like it "falls apart" during encounters with tons of enemies is because Noctis is not offensively equipped to be a one-man army outside of Armiger or alot of experience controlling him. The game intends for you to cycle between offense and defense, and the Team Commands are intended to fill in Noctis' weakspots.
If Noctis could jump 50 feet into the air, double jump, glide, launch enemies, have zero cooldown on his attacks, hit everything surrounding him easily and operate with no stamina, then people would have probably been singing a different tune. Because then he basically would have been Sora, your teammates would have been as useless as Goofy/Donald comparatively, and although the game would have been braindead, at least you would be controlling a power fantasy anime character.
Noctis was not a power fantasy anime character. Cloud Strife definitely is. XV's combat system would be great for FF7:R. It could basically be Advent Children : The Game.
Man at first i thought so
But just typing these silly replies makes time fly by at work so fast that I think i'm starting to enjoy it
I honestly think there's no way to satisfy both crowds.
But if they want to min-max sales, turn-based would probably have confused/pissed off more people than full action. Unless they straight up devote resources to some "Wait Mode" type of feature or something.
Oh well, it'll be different. Original game still exists so no big deal.
But if they want to min-max sales, turn-based would probably have confused/pissed off more people than full action. Unless they straight up devote resources to some "Wait Mode" type of feature or something.
Oh well, it'll be different. Original game still exists so no big deal.
The term I think you are looking for is "real time with pause".
I think it was obvious that FFVII R would be action based. I will pass up on that so Nomura wont ruin my childhood memories, but almost all FF are leaning towards being more WRPGish
As long as Nomura stays the hell away from the DQ series, he can experiment on FF all he wants.
As long as Nomura stays the hell away from the DQ series, he can experiment on FF all he wants.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Considering I beat most of FFXV by holding down the attack button, pressing down R1 + Triangle over and over again... eh. I never had a problem fighting as if my party members didn't even exist and I barely changed things up. I literally didn't put any points into Noctis' combat nodes outside of increased warp strike damage either. Maybe you can switch it up if you want, but the combat in that game can be about as brain-dead as you want it to be, and I say that as someone who enjoyed the game.
That's what I'm getting at.
It wasn't remotely a difficult game in the first place. Turn-based or not. I wouldn't be surprised if the remake is actually more difficult.
Lordkasual c'mon,XV's combat doesn't get enough criticism ,if anything.
Awful Camera and Lock on problems are objective technical flaws in that combat.
Even once you get past that,its riddled with mind numbing design decisions ,and balance problems.It also lacks variety and depth.
But we've already talked through this a million times ,and everyone made up their minds about it.
Like what you like.
Awful Camera and Lock on problems are objective technical flaws in that combat.
Even once you get past that,its riddled with mind numbing design decisions ,and balance problems.It also lacks variety and depth.
But we've already talked through this a million times ,and everyone made up their minds about it.
Like what you like.
I've played and enjoyed VII so much that I really don't mind huge changes in a remake. Experiment away. If I want to experience the original I can play it again. Playing the exact same game again but with updated presentation would be a cool novelty, but would honestly get boring and seem pointless to me.
2Smashed4U
Banned
I honestly have no idea why this game is being name.
It's going to be FF7 in name only, since I also have zero faith in Square recreating that world today, and given that the gameplay isn't going to be remotely similar at all.
It's going to be FF7 in name only, since I also have zero faith in Square recreating that world today, and given that the gameplay isn't going to be remotely similar at all.
It's a good thing that Atlus is still around to prove that you can still do great turn based JRPG combat instead of the pseudo-action RPG dogshit that modern Square Enix likes to pump out.
I can't agree with this. I'm not so sure people are clamoring for the exact same game, but just with updated graphics.
A remake of a classic should be doubling down on what made it great and adding stuff that enhances though, not experimenting with poorly thought out and implemented action mechanics, like they've always done. This is why the Resident Evil remake is still the gold standard.
I can't agree with this. I'm not so sure people are clamoring for the exact same game, but just with updated graphics.
A remake of a classic should be doubling down on what made it great and adding stuff that enhances though, not experimenting with poorly thought out and implemented action mechanics, like they've always done. This is why the Resident Evil remake is still the gold standard.
Really disappointing honestly. Why remake a game with a completely different battle system? Especially when FF15's combat was bang average at absolute best. I'm holding out very little hope that this game will be an improvement over the original. But the graphics should be great!
There are not enough people who talked about this fifteen years ago that still are around and buy games to fund a project of this scale.
And if you want to sell to other people, it has to be action based.
But hey, persona is still around and it's great!
I definitely don't think FFXV's battle-system is perfect, even though I enjoyed it on some level, like, the flow of it when you were warping in and out quickly, using Party Techniques, doing party combos etc. It might not be apparent, but deep down I actually do agree with a lot of the criticism you mentioned in the last few months - it is very flawed, though I think a few smaller changes could already go a long way to improve it. However, I also think you're highly overselling older FFs' strategic depth - they've never been the pinnacle of turn-based combat, anway. If you had to use "Fire" on a blue, ice-y monster in very few battles every once in a while to kill them more quickly, I don't necessarily call that "depth". Rather that's "rote memorization" of simple patterns (to quote fellow GAFer Vincent Grayson).
Generally, I'd rather have a button-mashy action-based battle-system than a button-mashy turn-based if could choose, tbh. At least having direct control makes it "feel" more involving.
Honestly, the only "turn-based" FF combat I've ever felt highly involved and engaged with, and not only in boss-battles, was LR. I think they could build something incredibly fun upon that combining snappiness and strategicness (having to macro-/ and micro-manage your spell loadout). I actually expected FFVIIR to have something similar, but with more freedom of movement. Now I'm not sure anymore. We'll see with the next trailer.
Fair point.
What does FFXV's combat have to do with this? FFVIIR is made by completely different people with more experience in action-based battle-systems (Nomura, and CyberConnect2 from Naruto fame).
CrispyBoar
Banned
LOL, go fuck off with that shit. Don't fix what isn't broken.
Guess I'll be saving my money & will only be watching it on YouTube for the story.
FearlessBelgian
Member
Not good.
Already thought this was confirmed, but yeah, definitely disappointed. It's not a remake at all, IMO, but a reimagining. Effectively a brand new game with the trappings of VII slapped onto it. That could still be a good game, but it's certainly not a remake of VII.
Honestly, I think VII's kind of a victim of its own success here, that this had to become some huge project. Because IMO VII really could have used a remake that tightens things up and cleans up the many rough edges it has, far more than any other FF game. Just like, a 3DS game or something that tightened it up like III and IV DS did would've done it some good. Meanwhile, this is a full on new game that's awkwardly stuck to the trappings of VII, and I feel like that effort would be better off spent on something entirely new, rather than this sort of half step.
Like, at least to me, this feels like kind of the worst of both worlds. Could still end up as a good game, but at least for my tastes, this is a real dumb decision (likely brought about by the sorts of people who feel like story is everything for an RPG, and those who think turn based is "outdated," both of which I really disagree with).
Honestly, I think VII's kind of a victim of its own success here, that this had to become some huge project. Because IMO VII really could have used a remake that tightens things up and cleans up the many rough edges it has, far more than any other FF game. Just like, a 3DS game or something that tightened it up like III and IV DS did would've done it some good. Meanwhile, this is a full on new game that's awkwardly stuck to the trappings of VII, and I feel like that effort would be better off spent on something entirely new, rather than this sort of half step.
Like, at least to me, this feels like kind of the worst of both worlds. Could still end up as a good game, but at least for my tastes, this is a real dumb decision (likely brought about by the sorts of people who feel like story is everything for an RPG, and those who think turn based is "outdated," both of which I really disagree with).
... Seriously? It's the most recent Final Fantasy and it also happens to be the turning point in the series where we moved from ATB to a brand new combat system. There are going to be comparisons regardless of which team is responsible. And my whole point was that I wish they hadn't scrapped the ATB system as it's far superior to what was used in FF15. I sincerely hope that this combat system will be better, but in my eyes it's an unnecessary change that will almost certainly make the game worse off.