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[PJX]

As a developer, Game Pass doesn't benefit studios the way it was promised. Developers were told that putting their games on Game Pass would lead to increased sales through greater exposure, but that hasn’t worked out as expected. Talking to a few developers that I know they stated that while the initial spike in visibility was noticeable, it hasn’t translated into the kind of long-term sales growth theye were led to believe. Instead, players seem content to engage with their game on the service and then move on to the next title, leaving traditional revenue streams stagnant. Does Game Pass harm developers in ways that are only becoming clear now. Unless Microsft is doing a huge payout, a lot of indie developers I know aren't seeing reasons to release their games on the platform and they payout has decreased dramatically since the buyouts.

A studio I know sent the following assestment to me.

• Revenue Uncertainty: Developers often rely on upfront sales for predictable revenue. Game Pass shifts this model to a subscription-based payout, which can be inconsistent and tied to engagement metrics rather than actual game purchases. This leads to financial uncertainty for studios, especially indie developers.
• Devaluation of Games: With so many titles available for a low monthly fee, the perceived value of individual games decreases. Consumers may become less willing to pay full price for games outside the subscription, creating a "race to the bottom" in pricing.
• Unsustainable Expectations: Game Pass fosters a culture where players expect to access a large library of high-quality games at minimal cost. This places pressure on developers to lower prices or join the subscription service, often at unfavorable terms.
• Lack of Long-Tail Sales: Titles on Game Pass may experience a surge in engagement initially but suffer from reduced long-term sales as players move to newer titles within the subscription. This affects studios that rely on steady income from evergreen titles.
• Indie Developers Struggle: While exposure on Game Pass can boost visibility, many indie developers report that the revenue from the platform doesn’t compensate for the loss of traditional sales. Additionally, it can be challenging for smaller games to stand out among a vast library.

 

[ReBurn]

What games have you developed?

 

[Crayon]

Developers were told? By someone reliable or by serial liars?

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Would lot of those games would have less exposure and sales and what were their expectations? Were they realistic, by that I mean what would sales realistically been without it? Were they built for gamepass type experience? What type of games tend to be more successful on that service? I’m asking because every single one of those points are true regardless of gamepass or not.

 

[Jaybe]

Game Pass is a race to the bottom that has lead to the devaluing of games. The only winners are those that Microsoft blesses with a deal to be on the service, but it sounds like from your post some have regret from a lack of sales.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

I don't think this is news to anyone. Xbox gamers are conditioned to not buy games now. Even free to play lol.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Game Pass is a race to the bottom that has lead to the devaluing of games. The only winners are those that Microsoft blesses with a deal to be on the service, but it sounds like from your post some have regret from a lack of sales.

That started long ago on PC sales. How can you complain about Gamepass when Epic games gives away around what 60+ titles a year?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Indies should do all the Steam sales for new sales for years. But yea, if a game goes to GamePass, I probably won’t spend over $20 for it somewhere else.

Human nature is to get what you can for as cheap as you can. So instead of getting Indiana Jones for $70 on PC or even $20 for a month of GP ultimate, I did a <$8 GP key.

I would have probably bought Indy for around $40 at some point if it was never in a sub.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

As a developer, Game Pass doesn't benefit studios the way it was promised. Developers were told that putting their games on Game Pass would lead to increased sales through greater exposure, but that hasn’t worked out as expected. Talking to a few developers that I know they stated that while the initial spike in visibility was noticeable, it hasn’t translated into the kind of long-term sales growth theye were led to believe.

Yes, the platform holder would tell the developers this. But in reality....

Instead, players seem content to engage with their game on the service and then move on to the next title, leaving traditional revenue streams stagnant. Does Game Pass harm developers in ways that are only becoming clear now. Unless Microsft is doing a huge payout, a lot of indie dev

....this is what happens.

I'm not sure how, exactly, developers were convinced that providing their games on two platforms, for what is effectively free, would somehow increase sales. I hope the backend payment is enough to make some offset, but...

And don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are developers in which the secured payment on the backend can be worthwhile in comparison to a gamble, but, yes this all seems self evident but I'm not a developer.

 

[Kataploom]

I guess it is, but why not start charging as much as they predict they'll sell in the best case for several years plus some more? That will cover them any loses.

They don't have to cheap out with F Microsoft, if they don't trust their product then it's not game pass fault that they don't sell.

In that case, they shouldn't lose money over the deal, they wouldn't require to sell on there platform to succeed financially and MS would think better whether that's worth it or not.

 

[Jaybe]

That started long ago on PC sales. How can you complain about Gamepass when Epic games gives away around what 60+ titles a year?

Game pass was first to bring full price AAA games day 1 available for $1 trials, they are far from comparable

 

[K' Dash]

People who have never written a line of code or know nothing about software development give their opinion on developing software for the games industry.

 

[adamsapple]

A studio I know

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

It's been 7 and a half years since Gamepass launched and I'm tired of reading the same shit over and again. Get some new material.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

People who have never written a line of code or know nothing about software development give their opinion on developing software for the games industry.

You don't need to write code to understand that providing your product for free to millions of people will reduce the sales of the product which would otherwise be available only through.. purchase.

 

[Jaybe]

This was a good article that echoes some of your points, OP basically saying indies prefer Steam and Switch, and some wait for payment for a subscription service deal Sony or Microsoft before bothering to port to their platforms.

Do game developers still want to publish on Xbox? | Skill Up

Get more from Skill Up on Patreon

www.patreon.com

 

[March Climber]

 

[yogaflame]

I definitely agree.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

A studio I know said it was the best thing ever for developers.

Seriously though, I look at it like Netflix, etc. Your real value should come from first party titles. For those 3rd parties releasing on GP it’s up to them to weigh up the pros and cons.

Older 3rd parties are added as additional content once they’ve had their new release sales.

Any developer that suffers from GP only has themselves to blame.

 

[BennyBlanco]

That assessment from the studio you know that totally exists is so incredibly obviously AI generated. People used to put effort into bait.

 

[PJX]

I suggest you get involved in the indie scene. You'll learn a lot. Attend a few meet ups, shows, conferences and people will talk. I'm in a Discord channel called Game Dev Local. We used to do monthly meet ups before Covid in central London now we do meets up in Brighton every couple of months. I'm in another group that's dedicated to Unity programmers and we do meets up every month near Clapham Common (London in case you don't know). But yeah, sure Jan.

 

[Tams]

As soon as you heard the word 'exposure' as a form of payment, you should have run for the hills.

Exposure is not a currency. You can’t eat exposure.

 

[Kings Field]

No this is the worst thing in the industry.

 

[K' Dash]

You don't need to write code to understand that providing your product for free to millions of people will reduce the sales of the product which would otherwise be available only through.. purchase.

Read that line again and think about software that you don't buy that you use every day, and don't reply, you clearly are not bright enough to hold a conversation with a 12yo.

 

[Sebastian1295]

If gamepass was such a great idea then nintendo and playstation would've adopted the idea. But they both instead have been content to sit and watch as the xbox division sinks itself with its own stupidity while continuing to sell games at full price for their respective platforms.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Gamepass teaches people to not buy games or spend a dime on them, as the present Marvel Rivals figures demonstrate.
Another direct consequence of this is that people embrace mediocrity as long as it's for free so they stop appreciating really good games. It's cancerous for the industry, a miserable junk food mentality.

This is not arguable in the very least, and is supported by sales figures and the online discourse about GP.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

If gamepass was such a great idea then nintendo and playstation would've adopted the idea. But they both instead have been content to sit and watch as the xbox division sinks itself with its own stupidity while continuing to sell games at full price for their respective platforms.

PS+ is basically GP without day 1 games, so they did adopt the idea

 

[Punished Miku]

Its a great deal for consumers. Half of those are just straight positives if you are looking to empower the consumer. Helps lower prices, helps increase options and ease of access and is so good that some developers have to step their game up to compete.

Good.

Their argument is that you should have less choice, more expensive games. They are arguing that you should have a worse experience so that they don't have to compete. That's literally their argument.

Bad news for them. GP is looking like 2025 will be the best year yet. Better make good games.

 

[adamsapple]

If gamepass was such a great idea then nintendo and playstation would've adopted the idea. But they both instead have been content to sit and watch as the xbox division sinks itself with its own stupidity while continuing to sell games at full price for their respective platforms.

???

 

[Tams]

Read that line again and think about software that you don't buy that you use every day, and don't reply, you clearly are not bright enough to hold a conversation with a 12yo.

Pretty much all the software I use I paid for. The rest is either 'free' because I pay with my privacy, it's a byproduct/afterthought of some corporate software, or because it's made for free by some lovely autists who like making it for fun.

For media, I only subscribe to a music service and guess what? I very rarely buy music.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Services like Gamefly have been around for over 20 years and game rentals for 40. And yet the industry keeps trucking along, being more successful and popular every year.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Read that line again and think about software that you don't buy that you use every day, and don't reply, you clearly are not bright enough to hold a conversation with a 12yo.

Sure thing. The free software I use everyday, like web browsers? That aren't for sale? Or other software that's free, supported by ad revenue.. ? Can you tell me more about this abundance of software being that I'm unqualified to speak to anyone.

 

[Sebastian1295]

PS+ is basically GP without day 1 games, so they did adopt the idea

Gamepasses entire business model and idea relies on first party games day 1 on gamepass. Playstation didn't adopt said idea because they know that putting first party games or second party games on a subscription model day 1 is suicide. No one in the industry has adopted gamepasses model.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

No this is the worst thing in the industry.

 

[Sebastian1295]

???

I don't see day 1 first or second party games on that subscription service.

 

[kevboard]

1: no developer is forced to put their game into GamePass.

2: game rentals were massive in the 90s, where people rented games instead of buying them.

3: EA, Ubisoft and Sony all have their own subscription services with day 1 releases and dozens/hundreds of games included.

 

[Sooner]

Just don't put your games on Xbox, and you'll be fine.

 

[Hero_Select]

As a developer, Game Pass doesn't benefit studios the way it was promised. Developers were told that putting their games on Game Pass would lead to increased sales through greater exposure, but that hasn’t worked out as expected. Talking to a few developers that I know they stated that while the initial spike in visibility was noticeable, it hasn’t translated into the kind of long-term sales growth theye were led to believe. Instead, players seem content to engage with their game on the service and then move on to the next title, leaving traditional revenue streams stagnant. Does Game Pass harm developers in ways that are only becoming clear now. Unless Microsft is doing a huge payout, a lot of indie developers I know aren't seeing reasons to release their games on the platform and they payout has decreased dramatically since the buyouts.

A studio I know sent the following assestment to me.

• Revenue Uncertainty: Developers often rely on upfront sales for predictable revenue. Game Pass shifts this model to a subscription-based payout, which can be inconsistent and tied to engagement metrics rather than actual game purchases. This leads to financial uncertainty for studios, especially indie developers.
• Devaluation of Games: With so many titles available for a low monthly fee, the perceived value of individual games decreases. Consumers may become less willing to pay full price for games outside the subscription, creating a "race to the bottom" in pricing.
• Unsustainable Expectations: Game Pass fosters a culture where players expect to access a large library of high-quality games at minimal cost. This places pressure on developers to lower prices or join the subscription service, often at unfavorable terms.
• Lack of Long-Tail Sales: Titles on Game Pass may experience a surge in engagement initially but suffer from reduced long-term sales as players move to newer titles within the subscription. This affects studios that rely on steady income from evergreen titles.
• Indie Developers Struggle: While exposure on Game Pass can boost visibility, many indie developers report that the revenue from the platform doesn’t compensate for the loss of traditional sales. Additionally, it can be challenging for smaller games to stand out among a vast library.

What game have you developed?

 

[adamsapple]

I don't see day 1 first or second party games on that subscription service.

Plucky Squire, Humanity, Sea of Stars etc. PS Plus has its share of Indie day 1 releases as well.

In general, since the PS+ revamp, that service is a lot more similar to Game Pass than not.

Games that go on GP are on PS+ a few months later in so many third party cases.

 

[Sebastian1295]

1: no developer is forced to put their game into GamePass.

2: game rentals were massive in the 90s, where people rented games instead of buying them.

3: EA, Ubisoft and Sony all have their own subscription services with day 1 releases and dozens/hundreds of games included.

Sony dosen't put 1st party or second party games on their subscription service day one.

 

[kevboard]

I don't see day 1 first or second party games on that subscription service.

first and second party devs don't give a shit about game sales when it is their job to give the subscription services value

 

[BennyBlanco]

If gamepass was such a great idea then nintendo and playstation would've adopted the idea. But they both instead have been content to sit and watch as the xbox division sinks itself with its own stupidity while continuing to sell games at full price for their respective platforms.

Sony did adopt the idea with a multi tiered sub though?

Gamepass teaches people to not buy games or spend a dime on them, as the present Marvel Rivals figures demonstrate.
Another direct consequence of this is that people embrace mediocrity as long as it's for free so they stop appreciating really good games. It's cancerous for the industry, a miserable junk food mentality.

This is not arguable in the very least, and is supported by sales figures and the online discourse about GP.

I haven’t used it in a while but this is nonsense. Game pass has some amazing games on it. P3 reload. All those Yakuza games. All those Halo games. All those old Bethesda games. Remnant 1 and 2. Etc. It has way more good games than bad games.

 

[kevboard]

Sony dosen't put 1st party or second party games on their subscription service day one.

maybe they should for some of them.
maybe Concord would have had 10 players more if they did

 

[Sebastian1295]

Plucky Squire, Humanity, Sea of Stars etc. PS Plus has its share of Indie day 1 releases as well.

In general, since the PS+ revamp, that service is a lot more similar to Game Pass than not.

Games that go on GP are on PS+ a few months later in so many third party cases.

All three of those games aren't first or second party studios though. They're indie games that took a bag of money to put their game on the subscription service.

 

[adamsapple]

All three of those games aren't first or second party studios though. They're indie games that took a bag of money to put their game on the subscription service.

And this topic is written with the supposed knowledge of indie studios in mind.

 

[Sebastian1295]

Sony did adopt the idea with a multi tiered sub though?



I haven’t used it in a while but this is nonsense. Game pass has some amazing games on it. P3 reload. All those Yakuza games. All those Halo games. All those old Bethesda games. Remnant 1 and 2. Etc. It has way more good games than bad games.

Sony didn't adopt the idea of putting first or second party games day one on gamepass. Gamepasses main feature was getting exclusives day 1 at no extra cost and sony nor nintendo have copied that idea.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Gamepasses entire business model and idea relies on first party games day 1 on gamepass. Playstation didn't adopt said idea because they know that putting first party games or second party games on a subscription model day 1 is suicide. No one in the industry has adopted gamepasses model.

It's one part of the same idea. OP doesn't say day 1 games, it says GP which broadly refers to a subscription gaming service ala PS+.

 

[Ozriel]

Gamepasses entire business model and idea relies on first party games day 1 on gamepass. Playstation didn't adopt said idea because they know that putting first party games or second party games on a subscription model day 1 is suicide. No one in the industry has adopted gamepasses model.

Sony didn't adopt the idea of putting first or second party games day one on gamepass. Gamepasses main feature was getting exclusives day 1 at no extra cost and sony nor nintendo have copied that idea.

The premise of the thread is that a subscription service with a lot of indie games keeps consumers from buying indie games.
In that regard, there’s no difference between PlayStation and Xbox.

Did you even read the title of the video?

 

[Sebastian1295]

And this topic is written with the supposed knowledge of indie studios in mind.

The topic sounds like OP is just talking about all developers in general not specifically indie. OP can clarify though when they get the chance to though haha.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

The topic sounds like OP is just talking about all developers in general not specifically indie. OP can clarify though when they get the chance to though haha.

I saved us the time and did what OP would have done any way .... asked ChatGPT:

The OP seems to be referring to subscription services in general, with Game Pass being the specific example in focus. The critique isn't limited to "Day 1" games (titles released on the service from their launch date), although the points raised about revenue uncertainty, devaluation, and long-term sales impact would arguably hit Day 1 games harder.

Key takeaways from the post:

1. Subscription Services Model: The criticism revolves around how subscription services like Game Pass change the revenue model for developers. Instead of direct game sales, revenue comes from payouts tied to subscription metrics (engagement, downloads, etc.), which can lead to financial uncertainty.
2. Day 1 Game Dynamics: While not explicitly limited to Day 1 games, the argument likely encompasses them because Day 1 releases rely heavily on initial sales momentum—something that subscription services can dilute.
3. Indie Developers: The assessment highlights challenges specific to indie developers, whose smaller budgets and reliance on predictable revenue streams make them particularly vulnerable to the negative effects of subscription models.

While the complaints might disproportionately affect Day 1 games (due to lost launch-window sales), the broader argument applies to games on the service regardless of when they were added.