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[Carnby]

Lady Gaga, meet Marilyn Manson. He'll fill you in on what it's like being a has-been.

Coincidentally, Manson tried his own "art pop" themed album. It was the start of the downfall of his creativity.

 

[LoneTraveler]

Well, GaGa's album was horrible save for like 4 songs. Beyonce's was actually incredibly solid. So at least based on my personal tastes, Forbes is absolutely right with this article.

 

[Escape Goat]

ARPOP was atrocious. Total miscalculation by Gaga.

 

[andymcc]

She writes songs, she can actually sing, and she's in good with almost everyone who matters in the record and fashion industries. I feel like she'll do alright. Especially in a culture that goes totally fuckballs for celebrities and spectacles and fads. I mean, reinvention is sort of her thing.

Every time I hear her sit down at a piano and just sing, I'm impressed. Even if she manages to burn all her bridges and destroy her commercial prospects with major labels, I don't see her going away. She's made enough of a name for herself that she could go the indie route, scale back her...well, everything, and coast on her talent and established fanbase with the power of the internets.

Interestingly, for an artist that prides herself on this avant-garde/arty image, her music is bereft of what makes her image interesting. Beyonce's self-titled record is more musically and thematically adventurous and interesting than Artpop (or any of Gaga's output) and it managed to shame it in sales. Funny how that worked.

 

[VeryGooster]

I wonder if the author knows Pearl Jam put out an album this year.

Didn't care for Artpop. Found it boring. Beyoncé though was pretty damned good.

 

[twobear]

Interestingly, for an artist that prides herself on this avant-garde/arty image, her music is bereft of what makes her image interesting. Beyonce's self-titled record is more musically and thematically adventurous and interesting than Artpop (or any of Gaga's output) and it managed to shame it in sales. Funny how that worked.

And there's the tea. Gaga's bag of tricks is running empty, and without the spectacle the burden is on the music. ARTPOP is not an album that can carry that burden.

She needs to do more than just turn up in a weird costume for her next album if it's as patchy as ARTPOP. Or she needs to go listen to The Fame Monster a few more times and remind herself how to write strong, consistent, thematically interesting bops.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Then why is she a singer? If she's stepping to the plate, shouldn't you expect to judge her?

Probably to sing and entertain?

She's a 10th grader in high school. If you want to tear into her that's your decision.

 

[andymcc]

Then why is she a singer? If she's stepping to the plate, shouldn't you expect to judge her?

while this is true, i'm sort of surprised you'd care about the quality of vocalists considering your praise of iceage.

 

[Monocle]

Interestingly, for an artist that prides herself on this avant-garde/arty image, her music is bereft of what makes her image interesting. Beyonce's self-titled record is more musically and thematically adventurous and interesting than Artpop (or any of Gaga's output) and it managed to shame it in sales. Funny how that worked.

I think that's always been her biggest problem, ever since her Fame days when she promoted the album as thematically robust but ended up having lots of songs about dicks and partying and such. She's always been good at finding a catchy hook, though, and she does seem to get more inventive and experimental with every release. Born This Way is a grab bag of nostalgic tracks, anthems, and oddball pieces that hold up surprisingly well, I've found. (Except for a few things, like Judas. That song was awful from day one. Jesus damn.) Artpop is a more consistent but equally diverse album that I enjoy almost as much as The Fame Monster.

Lady Gaga is my favorite contemporary pop brand/persona/whatever because, when it comes down to it, I like her sound more often than not and I find all the pageantry with her costumes and public antics entertaining. She's always out with telephones on her head or wacky geometry exploding out of her body. It's fantastic to see that kind of blatantly artificial weirdness hit the mainstream, and be imposed on everyone who interacts with her whether they're down with the whole thing or not. Still, from the beginning I've thought she's not quite as intelligent as she tries to present herself, and her artistry isn't very deep in spite of her declared inspirations and apparent intentions. (Also, since we're going down this road, the whole "Mother Monster" thing is kind of culty and creeps me out. I want no part in the hysterical megachurch segment of her fandom.)

I appreciate that she tries, as condescending as that sounds. Pop music bores me for the most part, but so far Lady Gaga has kept it interesting. I'm happy to overlook all the negative aspects as long as she keeps making and doing things I enjoy. Why pay attention to any pop singer otherwise?

 

[Radec]

Good for Beyonce. I still prefer Artpop over her self-titled album.

haha, damn,

Not a single fuck was given that day.

 

[Souldriver]

Still prefer Artpop over Beyonce though. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[jmdajr]

Meh. I liked ArtPop. This so called crowning is irrelevant to me.

 

[Exterminieren]

Why did I open this thread and see a photo of Tilda Swinton as the White Witch?

 

[Mumei]

And there's the tea. Gaga's bag of tricks is running empty, and without the spectacle the burden is on the music. ARTPOP is not an album that can carry that burden.

She needs to do more than just turn up in a weird costume for her next album if it's as patchy as ARTPOP. Or she needs to go listen to The Fame Monster a few more times and remind herself how to write strong, consistent, thematically interesting bops.

But godels, what about our “reverse Warholian expedition"?

 

[Barbacoatl]

Readers of Forbes bloggers are the real losers.

 

[Acidote]

That Lorde girl is supposed to be 17? She looks like she's on her early thirties.

 

[Monocle]

That Lorde girl is supposed to be 17? She looks like she's on her early thirties.

She looks OK in her videos but in public she turns into a goblin. Good album though.

 

[twobear]

But godels, what about our “reverse Warholian expedition"?

in the end i don't even know what this amounted to

was it just putting a couple of pieces of art on the album cover and namedropping a couple of roman gods in song lyrics?

even kylie managed to do that better if so

 

[Mumei]

in the end i don't even know what this amounted to

was it just putting a couple of pieces of art on the album cover and namedropping a couple of roman gods in song lyrics?

even kylie managed to do that better if so

The only attempt at explaining it that I have read was Soulscribe's:

Both Janelle and Gaga are fully realized conceptual artists and you're deluding yourself in thinking that Gaga isn't as fleshed out as Janelle. Their art is just different. Janelle's work is incredibly intellectualized; it's seeping with commentary on class and politics and because of that her big ideas translate to well-spoken execution. That's exactly her intent. Her ideas wouldn't translate into esoteric structures because, well, that's not her thing.

Gaga is Warholian. It's ideas pertaining to pop culture being interpreted through a very simplified execution. Her work isn't intellectualized like Janelle. because it's not supposed to be. Her talking about her art in an intellectualized way just means that she's well-spoken; it doesn't mean that her art matches her vocabulary. You'd be lucky to find cubist, pop art or surrealist artists who don't talk eloquently about their work.

You guys gave me shit for saying that some people are misunderstanding Gaga's intent, assuming that I was saying that in a smug way, but I wasn't. I do honestly think that people misunderstand her intent because they assume that because she's well spoken about herself, that her execution must not be esoteric. Except that's always been her style. I guess this is all subjective anyway... I only get defense about it because I've seen this kind of criticism thrown toward things like pop art quite a bit.

 

[SecretMoblin]

have you two ever considered that soulscribe is simply a troll

 

[twobear]

The only attempt at explaining it that I have read was Soulscribe's:

So are there any concrete examples of this 'reverse Warholian expedition' that can be pointed to?

There was that thing about DWUW is about how the public can have her 'body' but her mind and soul will always be hers or something.

But metaphor is just songwriting 101 soooo

 

[Majmun]

That Lorde girl is supposed to be 17? She looks like she's on her early thirties.

Yeah, had to check if they didn't mean 17 in dog years. I didn't believe it at first.

 

[freenudemacusers]

have you two ever considered that soulscribe is simply a troll

would someone do that; troll pop artists?

 

[SecretMoblin]

mac now is not the time

 

[twobear]

I thought freenudemacusers and Escape Goat were the same poster

 

[freenudemacusers]

I thought freenudemacusers and Escape Goat were the same poster

I'm a little less gay, thanks

 

[Mumei]

have you two ever considered that soulscribe is simply a troll

... Welllll

I thought freenudemacusers and Escape Goat were the same poster

No, Escape Goat is Teh Hamburglar.

I'm a little less gay, thanks

Is this a joke? I think this is a joke.

 

[twobear]

hmmmm

 

[freenudemacusers]

mumei now is not the time

 

[Rad-]

Sold 260k in its first week - less than Beyonce's, Katy's, Miley's, Rihanna's, and Madonna's last efforts' first weeks.

It's 2nd week drop was 82%/83% - the biggest drop of 2013, and the 4th biggest drop of all time.

After its first week, its weekly sales have been less than the Duck Dynasty Christmas album.

Critical reception has also been very low - 61 on Metacritic compared to 71, 78, and 71 from her first three albums.

The Fame and Born This Way got the same metacritic score? Ahaha.

 

[Yado]

The Fame and Born This Way got the same metacritic score? Ahaha.

They're both shit albums so it makes sense.

 

[studyguy]

popGAF is always scary in justifying their favorite singers.
For someone to come out of the blue and blow up in sales like that vs Gaga who marketed her album to hell and back only to get lukewarm reception is crazy though. This thread seems awfully salty all the same.

 

[Mumei]

mumei now is not the time

I really did think you were GayGAF for the longest time, though.

popGAF is always scary in justifying their favorite singers.
For someone to come out of the blue and blow up in sales like that vs Gaga who marketed her album to hell and back only to get lukewarm reception is crazy though. This thread seems awfully salty all the same.

?

I thought it seemed like most people agreed with this.

 

[royalan]

I think Gaga's potential as an artist remains infinitely higher than Beyonce's. Beyonce's strength is in technical perfection - she can (and has) consistently come out with solid albums/videos/performances/etc. But Beyonce's material itself is just solid, if a bit unadventurous. I still feel like the album Beyoncé is getting so much praise largely due to the surprising way she released it. But the music itself isn't that revolutionary, or even all that different from what we've been hearing all year. It's a standard R&B album, toss in a little Disco, Trap, and Sia piano-ballad to taste. When people get over the hype of how this album was released and, you know, actually listen to it, you can't really overlook how concerned the whole affair is with being on-trend. In fact, I'd say Beyoncé is probably Bey's tendiest album to date.

Gaga has, in the past, shown a willingness to think completely outside the box in terms of her sound and presentation. And what makes Gaga such a force is that, at her best, she marries this willingness to think left-field with a Pop perfectionism that not only rivals Beyonce, but eclipses her outright. Which isn't hard because Lady Gaga simply has more tools at her disposal - she can sing, dance, play instruments, and has the discipline and eye to put on the type of bombastic stage show that had people comparing her to Madonna before her first real tour had even completed its run. Gaga really should be the undisputed Queen of Pop at this point. The potential is undeniably there.

But she's not, and I think we've seen with ARTPOP era that the biggest hindrance to Gaga completely swallowing the throne is herself. Well, herself, and this freakish attention she pays to the most vocal of her deluded stans. Gaga's problem is that she allowed herself to get so mired in her fan-supported belief of what she should be that she stopped actually growing.

 

[twobear]

for me part of the problem is how you discern actual potential from looks-like-potential-because-of-fluke

the further we get away from TFM the less it looks like gaga had the former and more it looks like she had the latter

 

[Koppai]

I actually loved Artpop, didn't like Born this Way much :x

Especially Donatella, me and my friends all be singing to it XD

"I'm blonde, I'm skinny, I'm rich, and a little bit of a bitch."

I even bought it for one of my friends for Christmas, I called him and heard him listening to it in the background.

They went in that one direction.

I see what you did there.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I feel like Lady Gaga was a fad that died out, sure she'll still have her fans, but I feel like she was just a fad.

 

[Slayven]

Escape Goat is Drinkycrow's unevolved form. Kind of like Slowbro to Slowking.

 

[Red Mage]

Never cared for either of them.

The tears of Gaga fans are luxurious while Whitney has passed down the crown

Beyonce is a drug addict?

 

[Stinkles]

That section on rock music explains why there are so many bitter old people on youtube complaining that there's no good rock anymore, cause it just doesn't come up in these pop charts to be fed down their gullets so it feed their confirmation bias.



I'm totally out of the loop if that's the kind of rock music that sells.

I wish Kinski, Young Knives, Chelsea Light Moving, God Is An Astronaut, Tomahawk, Savages, QOTSA, Haken, Iceage, or Clutch were super popular but hey I'm not in marketing so it's not my job to make these rock acts popular. Just enjoy what you're into, recommend to others, search for new stuff, get the word of mouth out.

I'm an old fart and even I know that "kids today" have a ton of amazing new music to listen to. Even hip-hop is experiencing a pretty decent decade instead of stagnating. There are probably more "real" guitars and drums being used now than in my heyday.

Furthermore, the democratization of the distribution of music is an incredible phenomenon that will have a bigger effect on music (and variety) than any other single issue.

 

[angular graphics]

Would not bang. What the hell is this?

 

[Stinkles]

Would not bang. What the hell is this?

Tilda Swinton sheds her skin every year and sometimes it is left in eerie poses like this.

 

[bud]

Would not bang. What the hell is this?

you just don't get it, do you?

she's such an artistic presence. i'm humbled.

i'm deeply humbled.

 

[Soulscribe]

Would not bang. What the hell is this?

Someone who's not interested in looking bang-able on a constant? I know, rare in today's music.


I'm glad Gaga's being called the "loser" for this year. It shows that 1) she's still the standard the public uses in assigning quality and success in the pop music business, and 2) when she hits back in the next album cycle it'll probably make her "win" that much more visible. The question, however, is whether the public would ever want to call her a "winner" regardless of how her album does.

People like to put this woman down because she's not cooperative. She doesn't react to people calling her ugly by looking like a girl next door, she doesn't react to people calling her avant-garde by staying away from the word "art." Rather, she dials it UP. She's the only woman in pop music since probably peak-era Madonna that insists on doing her own damn thing, haters be damned. It's easy to put her down because she's not interested in fighting back. She's got the largest and most loyal fan base in pop music today and as long as she keeps them satisfied then she could give two shits about what editorials like this have to say. Oh, and not to mention she and Madonna are the highest earning women in the world today. She'll be fine.

 

[Booty Patrol]

for me part of the problem is how you discern actual potential from looks-like-potential-because-of-fluke

the further we get away from TFM the less it looks like gaga had the former and more it looks like she had the latter

God, this is so fucking true. I was willing to accept that argument before ARTPOP, but now TFM is looking like her random moment of brilliance in a sea mediocrity.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

It would honestly be difficult for me to put together a more wretched group of artists than what you listed. Maddeningly terrible music. There is plenty of good rock out there though.

You could take out Arcade Fire and add "rock" fans precious Queens of the Stone Age. But that's just me.

Spoiler

Because Reflektor was great

 

[Malvingt2]

A new 17-year-old indie pop sensation from New Zealand. Her hit song Royals SLAYED the charts staying #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for two months and has recently received 4 Grammy Nominations (including Song and Record of the Year). Her excellent debut album Pure Heroine went gold and received very favorable reviews from music critics. In other words, the LORDE and Savior of pop is here.

I like her a lot and the song Team is real good.

 

[Data West]

Who the F is Lorde?

Lana Del Rey part 2

 

[Mareg]

Then why oh why does every radio mix everywhere get that many gaga's songs ? I personally can't stand her voice or music. It is cringe worthy.
Miley and Beyoncé are awesome. Perry even. Gaga is killing my ears.

 

[Soulscribe]

Then why oh why does every radio mix everywhere get that many gaga's songs ? I personally can't stand her voice or music. It is cringe worthy.
Miley and Beyoncé are awesome. Perry even. Gaga is killing my ears.

You like Perry's voice but hate Gaga's? The latter can actually sing though.