ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Nice way to shoehorn Xbox where conversation was clearly about PC and Switch 2 mostly. Especially with recent hw sales even in USA.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"From now on, Square Enix plans to increase the amount of titles releasing simultaneously on each platform," Square Enix confirms more Xbox support
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
Little Chicken
Gold Member
Sony late to the party as always! Only a matter of time before those PC ports become day and date
Little Chicken
Gold Member
If you'd bothered to read the article, they literally talk about Xbox.
Freegunners are always the last to face reality.
Musashipan
Member
Lol
Woopah
Member
I'm not seeing how your math makes sense. Could show where he says exclusivity payments aren't free money on top of what they already earn?This old article explains the reasoning well:
Former Square Enix exec on why Final Fantasy sales don’t meet expectations and chances of recouping insane AAA budgets | Game World Observer
Former Square Enix executive Jacob Navok has shared his thoughts on less-than-expected sales of the latest Final Fantasy games. He also tried to explain why people mistakenly think that the Japanese publisher is simply setting unrealistic goals for its products.gameworldobserver.com
In short, money hats are recouped. It's not just free money on top of what you earn.
To work through a simplified example:
Sony: Here's 200m for 1 year of playstation exclusitivity
SE: Sure!
(game proceeds to sell 3.33 m copies over a year, earning 200m)
SE: Hurray! With Sony's moneyhat and the new revenue, we now have 400m!
Sony: Actually, I get 200m back. I recoup my investment!
SE: :O
(SE & Sony now both have 200m)
(Game finally launches on Xbox and Steam, but hype and sales are considerably decreased)
Now, picture the other scenario where SE launched on all platforms simultaneously, sold 3.33m on playstation (same as before) PLUS an additional 4m between PC and Xbox. They would have a LOT more money.
Since moneyhats are recouped, you should take it only if you can't fund development yourself or if you think the game would sell less than the money hat (case of Alan Wake 2 on Epic). But if your game will sell gangbusters and will exceed the moneyhat, then there's basically no reason to take it.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
And you will get more stuff like pixel remasters. Square is just being polite, especially after latest Mana game bombed.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
It certainly won't hurt to release the game on Xbox, but if they're in such bad shape being exclusively on Sony then going to Xbox won't do anything.
darrylgorn
Member
Fanboys on both sides misspelling cheque is fucking unacceptable.
xenosys
Member
All of those games you listed above FF had Day 1 releases on the PC. I wish people stop making these ridiculous comparisons.
xenosys
Member
The data would indicate sales of Metaphor were massively front-loaded. It's already outside the top 60 best-sellers on Steam, outside the top 10 best sellers on PSN, under 20k CCU's after 3 weeks, and there's no word of mouth because no-one is playing the game on platforms like Twitch etc.
It sold a million in a day, but we've had absolutely nothing since from Atlus/Sega. I imagine sales dropped off markedly and it's sitting somewhere between 1-2m right now.
Last edited:
Donald mac Ronald
Member
If they release their games on pc at the same time, they will find more success.
Releasing games 6 months or years down the line when the hype is gone and the port is half-assed will bomb on pc.
A bug free simultaneous release with consoles would shift a couple of million .
Releasing games 6 months or years down the line when the hype is gone and the port is half-assed will bomb on pc.
A bug free simultaneous release with consoles would shift a couple of million .
No it isn’t a self fulfilling prophecy. SE put every FF game day one on 360 and xbone, along with every other major third party. Didn’t stop the user base from continuing to contract to the point where it is now borderline worthless for game sales.
It’s not even a third party’s job to sell consoles. That’s Microsoft’s job to build an install base. If they can’t do it then tough shit.
Last edited:
Goalus
Member
Source: trust me, bro.
DarkstarRising13
Member
Yup. As someone who has been a loyal PlayStation fan for over twenty years or so, I have no complaints about Square Enix releasing their triple AAA games on PC Day 1 alongside PlayStation.
PC Gaming is no longer the niche audience it once was back in the 1990s, 2000s, and early 2010s. Today, it is a MASSIVE giant of an audience that shows no signs of slowing down. We can all tip our hats to Valve's Steam website which has galvanized PC Gaming to where it is today.
If it means Square Enix is able to continue with the quality that Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (excusing the criticisms both games have) has shown if they put similar games like these on PC Day 1, then so be it.
The article references "Jacob Navok" former director of Square Enix's business development. I highly recommend you read his direct twitter thread instead.
A quote from his thread: "...the platforms will generally get a recoup on any funds spent on exclusivity meaning until they are paid back, they will keep that cash."
For another example, Epic's exclusivity deals are highly lauded by developers. Let's take a look at the language:
"...Once costs are recouped, developers earn at least 50% of all profits."
Lastly, as a gamedev myself, who partnered with a publisher and launched a game on Steam and Switch, I can confirm from my own experience, that is how the industry works. Someone who funds you and doesn't expect to recoup would be a saint
Last edited:
Brigandier
Gold Member
I think most of SE AAA games suck and their prestige IP Final Fantasy really is a tired IP that is becoming irrelevant, I think a lot of people aren't really that bothered by SE in general anymore.
They are like Ubisoft... excuses excuses excuses instead of listen adapt innovate.
When FF7 Rebirth is only doing around 2m in 6 months then something is very wrong, I actually thought the game was outstanding overall but big expensive to make game's like this need to be reaching as many people as possible ASAP, It should have had a PS4 release too even if it would look like ass.... for such a big deal release it kinda came and went like a fart in a hurricane
I think SE need to start listening to fans of Final Fantasy and stop alienating them by making action battle systems only and have a turn based option aswell, Expedition 33 battle system looks awesome why can't a FF also have that kind of battle system.
They are like Ubisoft... excuses excuses excuses instead of listen adapt innovate.
When FF7 Rebirth is only doing around 2m in 6 months then something is very wrong, I actually thought the game was outstanding overall but big expensive to make game's like this need to be reaching as many people as possible ASAP, It should have had a PS4 release too even if it would look like ass.... for such a big deal release it kinda came and went like a fart in a hurricane
I think SE need to start listening to fans of Final Fantasy and stop alienating them by making action battle systems only and have a turn based option aswell, Expedition 33 battle system looks awesome why can't a FF also have that kind of battle system.
Fabieter
Member
We know how ff 15 sold on xbox one in some markets and that was at a time where the console was still more competitive. There was a reason sqaure stopped supporting the platform and it seems they forgot that.
xenosys
Member
I think most of SE AAA games suck and their prestige IP Final Fantasy really is a tired IP that is becoming irrelevant, I think a lot of people aren't really that bothered by SE in general anymore.
They are like Ubisoft... excuses excuses excuses instead of listen adapt innovate.
When FF7 Rebirth is only doing around 2m in 6 months then something is very wrong, I actually thought the game was outstanding overall but big expensive to make game's like this need to be reaching as many people as possible ASAP, It should have had a PS4 release too even if it would look like ass.... for such a big deal release it kinda came and went like a fart in a hurricane
I think SE need to start listening to fans of Final Fantasy and stop alienating them by making action battle systems only and have a turn based option aswell, Expedition 33 battle system looks awesome why can't a FF also have that kind of battle system.
Innovate by going back to the tired, turn-based system that they had 20 years ago. There is also zero evidence that going back to a turn-based system would increase sales anyway.
SE are doing just fine. Multi-platform D1 releases are the key.
For all your bluster about the franchise being dead, FF games generally out-sell everything else in the traditional JRPG space. Rebirth has also sold well over 2m copies by now.
Last edited:
Japan is another tragic tale of Final Fantasy irrelevancy. The Final Fantasy series used to be juggernaut, second only to the Dragon Quest series in terms of units sold. Their refusal to release anything noteworthy on the Nintendo platform after the SNES era and being loyal to Sony platforms had come to bite on their ass as the younger generations of Japanese gamers that grew up with Nintendo hardware weren't accustomed to the FF series background, which subsequently paved the way for other titles to flourish instead of FF.
The Final Fantasy series went from a 3 million seller to a sub 500k seller in this generation, which is a testament to serious IP mishandling by SE. Their eagerness and greed to appeal to a western audience had lost them their home turf relevancy.
The Final Fantasy series went from a 3 million seller to a sub 500k seller in this generation, which is a testament to serious IP mishandling by SE. Their eagerness and greed to appeal to a western audience had lost them their home turf relevancy.
Brigandier
Gold Member
I clearly state having both would be a good option, believe it or not options and choice is a good thing and appeals to more potential customers.
Yes going back to their roots and making changes to a system they mastered then make it more fun via innovation with fresh ideas is a good idea and can work not every single entry needs to be Action only.
There is a LOT of people who love old school FF and still want it, Stop pretending it wouldn't make a difference you're being incredibly naive listening to that tired forum talk bullshit.
Most SE games are shit so yes they absolutely need day 1 on everything they can possibly release on.
Bluster lol... does telling the truth about a series you like trigger you?? Sorry to tell you the truth but FF is a series on a downward slope and unless SE doesn't change it's ways quickly then yes it'll eventually end up dead.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Being playstation exclusive doesn't pay the bills anymore. Anyone could have told them that.
Games cost so much now it makes sense to release everywhere.
Shame they didn't do this 10 years ago then competition would have been more fair.
Games cost so much now it makes sense to release everywhere.
Shame they didn't do this 10 years ago then competition would have been more fair.
Last edited:
Fabieter
Member
10 years ago they had all the major games coming without any success. Its the reason they ignored Xbox in the first place.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Who gives a shit about Xbox? I just hope this mean that they'll release their games on Steam day one.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
The kind of games SE want to make wouldn't work on Nintendo hardware.
Nintendo makes shitty hardware. How do you think the iconic FF7 would have worked on a N64?!
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst
Member
Ignore the 3 million first week sales of FF16 on a PS5 install base of 36 million
Goalus
Member
What we know is FF15 sold a lot better than FF16 and FF7R. The former was on Xbox, the others aren't.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
And Squaresoft used to be the GOAT until they threw it all away and went bankrupt and bought by Enix. By your measure, the key to Final Fantasy greatness would have been to release the next FF game on SNES.
The breakdown of sales for FF15 are: 80% on PS4 11% on PC 9% on XBO
I can say this, if they decided not to release it on Xbox and practically nothing would have changed...
The problem is not in the platforms, the problem is in the company itself, marketing, development stages and the games themselves. It doesn't matter how and on how many platforms they will publish something, it will not increase their sales. Because they are looking for a solution to the problem where there is none. Instead of sitting down and figuring out why people who previously bought and were happy to buy games from SE, suddenly stopped buying their games. And they have a lot of problems, and they do not want to learn from their mistakes. That's why Nomura in the interview when he talked about the remake of FF9 and how they are also thinking about how to split this game into several, because damn it worked so well with FF7 and did not ruin the game, so this definitely needs to be repeated again.
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
Square was releasing major games on Xbox 360 and Xbox 1 simultaneously. Its noy anything new.
Final Fantasy 13
Kingdom Hearts 3
Nier
Final Fantasy 15
Octopath- Xbox and not on PS
Dragon Quest
Tomb Raider
Dues Ex
Life is Strange
Its been mostly been Final Fantasy 14 thats been PS console exclusive. And Final Fantasy 7/2020 onwards
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst
Member
Someone in this thread already mentioned it but Sony probably didn't think it was worth paying for exclusivity any further, especially with the pitiable optimization on the last two FF releases on PS5. You'd think after taking tens of millions of dollars SE would spend time actually making their games run well on a single system that has hundreds of other gorgeous games already made for it.
Woopah
Member
Thank you!
So if I'm understanding correctly, the main benefit of an exclusivity deal is cash flow, as the platform holder essentially provides a 0% interest loan.
In terms of profitability, there's 0 benefit to doing an exclusivity agreement as all the money the publisher gets has to be paid back to Sony or Nintendo.
This is a different thing as its a publishing deal. So it's more similar to what Sony did for Rise of Ronin.
For FFXVI and FFRebirth, Sony has a exclusivity deal but not a publishing deal.
Likewise I'm not sure if you're talking about a publishing deal or an exclusivity deal. Are you saying:
1. The publisher gave you money to fund the game and you had to pay that back to the publisher
or
2. Nintendo gave the publisher money to not put the game on Xbox and PlayStation, and then the publisher had to pay all that money back to Nintendo.
Last edited:
Donald mac Ronald
Member
,
. They did ten years ago and people on Xbox didn't buy their games. Now even worse. Phil has conditioned you not to buy any more.
chokotoureiki
Member
Switch? Who buys 3rd party games on Switch? Ppl buy a Switch for Nintendo games. That's why most third party games get largely ignored despite its massive sales.
iQuasarLV
Member
My god there is a not so subtle hint of victim complex coming from that twitter chain. My god.
chokotoureiki
Member
Yeah, there's no way FF16 could pull off those sales numbers say if it were to be released exclusively on Switch, theoretically speaking.
Did you forget the thread title before you posted?
You’re seriously asking if a JRPG would sell well on Switch 2?
chokotoureiki
Member
Of course I did. Did you? yeah it said more Xbox support, nowhere in the title did it say anything about a Switch 2.
Woopah
Member
There's been more than half a billion third party games sold on Switch (not including digital-only games).
Clearly many people are buying third party games there.
chokotoureiki
Member
Only more than 500 mil? That pales in comparison to third party games sold elsewhere, esp on PS, where 3rd party games sell way more. Mega hitters like Elden Ring, GTA5, and RDR2 have never seen a Switch release.
Woopah
Member
Right, games that aren't on Switch don't sell very well on Switch. That's not a reason to leave Switch (soon Switch 2) out of your multiplatform strategy.
Especially for SE.
We don't know the exact number of third party sales on Switch but it's at least over 500 million. Probably a lot more in total. It's good for publishers to get a slice of that pie.
A 0% interest free loan is one way to describe it. Though there's additional nuance to it. Every contract is a new negotiation and both parties will vying for better terms.
For example, the platform holder can pay for ALL of development, and thus demand more (total exclusivity and/or higher revenue split). Or the platform holder can only put down a fixed amount and in return they only get limited-time exclusivity. Some exclusivity periods run for one year, some run for multiple years (wonderful 101, baten kaitos). The publisher can offer marketing deals to sweeten the pot, etc.
If the funder has put money some money in, they've taken on some risks. So if the game bombs, then the developer may have made out better with the deal, while the publisher will be left holding the bag (as in the case of Alan Wake 2 recently).
If a game's prospects are IFFY (for example, it's a AA game, or the dev isn't really sure there's a market for it, or they're out of funding), then those are more reasons to take a publishing deal.
If the game is guaranteed to be a MEGA hit (like GTA6), then there's no reason to be platform exclusive.
This more aptly describes my situation. Nintendo wouldn't give money to an indie to lock down an exclusive unless they were HUGE.
For my situation, the publisher gave me an up front minimum guarantee. They didn't fund my game entirely - I funded most of my game's development myself, but near the end my funds were running low, so they stepped in to help with marketing, localization, and QA. In return, once they recouped expenses, we did a 50/50 revenue split for some territories (from my understanding, that's kinda unusual).
Most indies I've talked to regret their publishing deal, and if they can, they go without it. I've talked to a dev who has worked with Devolver Digital and regretted it. If you can fund your entire game, and you know it'll be a hit, it's better to do it entirely by yourself so you keep as much of the pie at the end.
Astray
Member
The biggest problem for Square has been product quality and appeal, as long as they don't fix that, they will never succeed.
There are console/PC exclusives that break out, there are day 1 multiplatform flops too.
The idea that everything needs to be multiplatform day 1 to succeed is honestly very wrong. It's all about product appeal and good marketing.
There are console/PC exclusives that break out, there are day 1 multiplatform flops too.
The idea that everything needs to be multiplatform day 1 to succeed is honestly very wrong. It's all about product appeal and good marketing.