Support NeoGAF

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Samurai, ninja and feudal warlords have always been popular themes in media, but as far as overseas depictions of Japan go, historical inaccuracies and awkward cultural misunderstandings are a common issue. These things can lead to titles being boycotted by Japanese viewers, or at the very least, getting dunked on and reduced to memes.

But it’s not just about how historically accurate a game is. Writing for ITmedia Business, Nomura Securities analyst Kensaku Namera recently talked about what determines a Japan-themed game’s reception in Japan. He names Sucker Punch Productions’ Ghost of Tsushima as a prime example of a historical game about Japan done right, and explains why the title is so loved by Japanese people despite its deviations from historical fact.

Released in 2020 for the PS4, Ghost of Tsushima takes players to feudal Japan during the first Mongol invasion. Although its set against real-life events at a real-life location, the acclaimed title takes liberties in the name of entertainment value and gameplay – dramatizing historical events, changing up geography, and introducing anachronistic elements (for example, things like Jin’s samurai armor and haiku poetry should not exist at that time).

However, none of these discrepancies have been criticized as flaws by Japanese players. Namera attributes this to how the game does not impose anything in terms of ideology, but rather presents itself as pure entertainment. “If a game contains depictions that show a Western-centric view of history, depictions that imply that “Japanese culture and history were informed and guided by the West,” or descriptions that seem to be fabricating Japan’s role in historical events, it will naturally provoke strong backlash from the market.”

Namera goes on to explain that “the biggest reason why Ghost of Tsushima was accepted in the Japanese market without any sense of incongruity was that there was very little such “imposition of culture or ideology.”

Ghost of Tsushima’s developers have emphasized that their game puts entertainment value first and is not meant to be a one-to-one recreation of history on numerous occasions. But despite this entertainment-first approach, Sucker Punch put great effort into researching their subject matter when making Ghost of Tsushima. They visited Japan, consulted historians and motion captured Japanese sword-fighting experts. They even gave up on featuring real-life historical figures in the game, heeding the advice of their consultants.

By showing an understanding of the culture and avoiding faux pass, Ghost of Tsushima’s developers made a game about Japan that’s come to be loved by Japanese people. In this sense, Namera concludes that “what’s important for history-themed games and media is not simply consistency with historical facts. It’s important to have a deep understanding of the culture and history, to not impose any ideology, and above all, to place top priority on entertainment value.”

Ghost of Tsushima’s historical inaccuracies were accepted by the Japanese because of the devs’ non-imposing, entertainment-focused approach, says Japanese analyst - AUTOMATON WEST

Japanese analyst talks about what determines the success of Japan-inspired media, including games, among Japanese people.

automaton-media.com

 

[Jack Videogames]

GoT historical innacuracies: the katana wasnt invented until years later, back then they used a similar sword called tachi.

Other games historical inaccuracies: a black samurai being Nobunagas best guy and killing japanese people.

I bet one historical inaccuracy is easier to forgive than the other

ED: Corrected name of sword

 

[killatopak]

Political stuff can exist in a historical game. It just has to be historical politics and not modern ones disguised as history.

 

[LectureMaster]

Ghost of Tsushima clearly approached Japanese history and culture with a humble and respectful manner. They were paying homage pretty much everywhere in the game, even included the Kurosawa mode.

While I wouldn't say Ubi is disrespectful, they obviously were trying to create the Sengoku setting with their western modern ideology. And the controversies around defending Yasuke as a samurai were only to incur more criticism from Japan. If it weren't Assassin's Creed, it would probably have been okay but AC used to be your franchise to boast about history accuracy.

 

[Generic]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

 

[DanielG165]

The biggest inaccuracies that GoT really had were the sword type that samurais used, (though understandable that SP went with the katana due to popularity), geographical location, and samurais living by a code of honor. Ergo, none of them were egregious nor overtly “offensive”.

It’s not like Ubisoft can’t make historically accurate games either; their trilogy of open world AC games were incredibly accurate to the time period they portrayed. Those games were regularly praised for such, even by experts of those particular eras, with the tour modes being excellent representations of the respective periods. Whatever inaccuracies that were there were always overshadowed by the sheer amount of accuracy.

With Shadows, they’ve most definitely gone off the deep end, have no qualms about doing so, and have no plans to rectify.

 

[Senua]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

 

[Venom Snake]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

The important thing is that she wasn't gay.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Ghost of Tsushima clearly approached Japanese history and culture with a humble and respectful manner. They were paying homage pretty much everywhere in the game, even included the Kurosawa mode.

While I wouldn't say Ubi is disrespectful, they obviously were trying to create the Sengoku setting with their western modern ideology. And the controversies around defending Yasuke as a samurai were only to incur more criticism from Japan. If it weren't Assassin's Creed, it would probably have been okay but AC used to be your franchise to boast about history accuracy.

What's funny is that the real story of Yasuke in that setting would have been even more compelling to tell in a game.

Ubi may not have been disrespectful per Sat (though I think they were), but they are just a manifestation of the weird way Western artists depict other people's cultures and histories. With the Japanese though... considering how traditional they are... well, fuck around and find out.

 

[Bashtee]

The important thing is that she wasn't gay.

If I remember correctly, there also was a sidestory about a man visiting the grave of what is implied to be his former lover. The others were accusing him of spying for the Mongolian.

 

[deriks]

GoT historical innacuracies: the katana wasnt invented until years later, back then they used a similar sword called tanto.

Other games historical inaccuracies: a black samurai being Nobunagas best guy and killing japanese people.

I bet one historical inaccuracy is easier to forgive than the other

Because one is put as a fun mechanic, the other was a political trend choice and for sure to have news about it. It backfire. There's only too much you can push

 

[Pejo]

There was a clear problem with the optics of the way Shadows played out. I think adding hip hop to the battle music was one of the biggest problems back when they were lying about trying to remain faithful to Yasuke's historical image. You could tell at that point that they just wanted to make a PoC protag in the game and hide behind "but but but he existed in real life!" to shield themselves from criticism. It was a dishonest move and the fact that they're trying to invoke the "you bigot, you racist!" if you didn't like it, made it even worse.

Then you have stuff like this. On its own, it's probably meant to showcase the destruction tech and NPC AI, but when you take a step back, it really is kinda distasteful.

 

[RoboFu]

I don't know why everyone is lying. Ubisoft lied and hid behind " historical blah blah " and people who clearly saw through Ubisoft's bs lied about it not being historically accurate. Just say " we know Ubisoft was pushing BS for woke brownie points and we don't like it .. we wanted a Japanese protagonist in a Japanese AC". There is nothing wrong with wanting that.

 

[Venom Snake]

If I remember correctly, there also was a sidestory about a man visiting the grave of what is implied to be his former lover. The others were accusing him of spying for the Mongolian.

That would be gay. And kind of sad to be honest. This is the element of diversity in games that can be accepted.

 

[playXray]

The biggest inaccuracies that GoT really had were the sword type that samurais used, (though understandable that SP went with the katana due to popularity), geographical location, and samurais living by a code of honor. Ergo, none of them were egregious nor overtly “offensive”.

It’s not like Ubisoft can’t make historically accurate games either; their trilogy of open world AC games were incredibly accurate to the time period they portrayed. Those games were regularly praised for such, even by experts of those particular eras, with the tour modes being excellent representations of the respective periods. Whatever inaccuracies that were there were always overshadowed by the sheer amount of accuracy.

With Shadows, they’ve most definitely gone off the deep end, have no qualms about doing so, and have no plans to rectify.

What is it about Shadows that makes it so inaccurate compared to earlier AC titles?

 

[SaintALia]

Can't see why any Japanese person would get upset by it though, GoT storyline is pretty safe and rote in it's depictions of Japan. Japanese media itself goes far harder in it's depictions of Samurai and historical depictions of Japan.

Hell, even the gay thing has been done before, with Taboo(Gohatto), and was far more controversial. Although, this topic(gay relationships of older men and sometimes much younger men) and the same sort of stuff happening with monks mostly gets ignored where that's concerned anyway. Attractive lesbians have been mostly whatever in terms of controversy concerning LGBTQ+ issues in media imo, well, much less of an issue.

 

[Stu_Hart]

Keep that same energy with ghost of yotei and don't let the voice actor's views on social media influence how they see that game.

 

[STARSBarry]

What is it about Shadows that makes it so inaccurate compared to earlier AC titles?

Nothing, the issue here is they suddenly became very interested in historical accuracy when selecting a black guy as the protagonist and went to great lengths to point out how much research they had done for the sake of this historical accuracy so that they could say "we put a black guy in our samurai game because it's historically accurate, get educated bigot"

But both sides know they put a black samurai in their game because they wanted a black main character to hit a diversity quota (Asians don't count) but they can't say that, so instead people poke at them where it hurts. The now very obvious and very flawed interest in historical accuracy for Assassins Creed, which they keep falling over and walking back, because the research turned out to be an American fan fiction disguised as fact on Wikipedia.

 

[playXray]

Nothing, the issue here is they suddenly became very interested in historical accuracy when selecting a black guy as the protagonist and went to great lengths to point out how much research they had done for the sake of this historical accuracy so that they could say "we put a black guy in our samurai game because it's historically accurate, get educated bigot"

But both sides know they put a black samurai in their game because they wanted a black main character to hit a diversity quota (Asians don't count) but they can't say that, so instead people poke at them where it hurts. The now very obvious and very flawed interest in historical accuracy for Assassins Creed, which they keep falling over and walking back, because the research turned out to be an American fan fiction disguised as fact on Wikipedia.

What do you mean by ‘very interested in historical accuracy’?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The historical inaccuracies in GoT were mostly deliberately chosen because the world's general imagination of what samurai armor and weapons looked like is based entirely on how they looked during the Sengoku era. The Japanese understand this very well since all of their pop culture anime and video games samurai look like the Sengoku era ones too

 

[STARSBarry]

What do you mean by ‘very interested in historical accuracy’?

Every Assassins creed main character is fictional. This is the first game where you play as a historical figure, who is named and known to exist via records. Why did they select this specific individual in feudal Japan instead of any known named Samurai of the period with far more records...

Well his special qualities.

 

[Edmund]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

Hi Grummz.

 

[TrueLegend]

Political stuff can exist in a historical game. It just has to be historical politics and not modern ones disguised as history.

Killed it.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

Waitttt…you don’t really think lesbians are a new thing, do you?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Ghost of Tsushima came right out of the gates announcing itself as a hamburger samurai game, and admitted in interviews they took liberties on the historical timeline of things to add more interesting content into one game. It’s a love letter to Kurosawa movies more than it is anything historical.

Also the whole premise of the protagonist is fantasy. Jin Sakai is “a storm made flesh”. He’s the anthropomorphisation of the typhoon that destroyed the Mongolia fleet.

Also there are no haiku in the game, but if they were called by their actual name then no Westerner would know what it meant. In the Japanese dub they use the right word. All of it makes good sense from a game design perspective.

It’s art through and through, respectfully and lovingly crafted.

I’m looking forward to Ghost of Yōtei, but hope one day we get a revisit with Jin, as there was a second Mongol invasion within Jin’s time.

 

[thegame983]

There's a difference between 'historical inaccuracy' and 'agenda pushing.'

The former is fine, the latter is not.

 

[Revolutionary]

It’s important to have a deep understanding of the culture and history, to not impose any ideology, and above all, to place top priority on entertainment value.”

Ghost of Yotei:

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

It's a well known fact lesbianism was invented by Ellen de Genere in the year 1972, therefore the depiction is anachronistic.

Ghost of Yotei:

Onna-musha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Warrior women are well documented in the history of japan - granted they used to train in polearms and archery, but you know it's in the ballpark.

The most famouse onne-musha was Tomoe Gozen and the Ghost of Yotei protagonist is called Tomoe.... hmm interesting no?

 

[vkbest]

What is it about Shadows that makes it so inaccurate compared to earlier AC titles?

Political agenda mate. Japanese people don't want that shit in their country. Can you understand some so basic, they don't want shitty foreigners change the story of their country and publicity as real thing?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

I mean, historically accurate mongols would've ride proper Mongol Horses. It's also important to note that those horses were (and are) very convenient for fast disembarkment from the saddle to shoot arrows and fight with the sword.

But nobody wants that, even Japanese gamers. Because you don't deviate from rule of cool in a power fantasy without a solid reason. Sucker Punch knows how to use rule of cool without breaking the suspension of disbelief, unlike freakin Shadows where it's straight up fantasy with Japanese skin.

 

[AJUMP23]

You guys are telling me video games are not all historically perfect.

 

[Del_X]

Why do we care so much about not offending the Japanese?

 

[Rudius]

I'm afraid they will fuck it all in the next game.

 

[Astray]

You guys are telling me video games are not all historically perfect.

The sperging over things like Assassin's Creed Shadows was never about historical accuracy, it's grifters latching onto something to keep the Youtube and Twitter bucks going.

We are literally living in the age of very, very abundant entertainment that comes in very cheap too, there's no reason for anyone to not just ignore whatever they don't like and find 10 more things that they do like instead.

 

[playXray]

Every Assassins creed main character is fictional. This is the first game where you play as a historical figure, who is named and known to exist via records. Why did they select this specific individual in feudal Japan instead of any known named Samurai of the period with far more records...

Well his special qualities.

That’s interesting! Thanks.

 

[playXray]

Political agenda mate. Japanese people don't want that shit in their country. Can you understand some so basic, they don't want shitty foreigners change the story of their country and publicity as real thing?

Sorry, that was just a word salad.

 

[SlimySnake]

Let's see how they accept the lesbian non-binary new female samurai lead.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I mean, historically accurate mongols would've ride proper Mongol Horses. It's also important to note that those horses were (and are) very convenient for fast disembarkment from the saddle to shoot arrows and fight with the sword.

But nobody wants that, even Japanese gamers. Because you don't deviate from rule of cool in a power fantasy without a solid reason. Sucker Punch knows how to use rule of cool without breaking the suspension of disbelief, unlike freakin Shadows where it's straight up fantasy with Japanese skin.

Someone make this mod and I'll double dip on PC.

 

[Xyphie]

It's obviously supposed to be a game version of a romanticized samurai movie. The important thing is not to be historically accurate but verisimilitude.

 

[jason10mm]

I mean, historically accurate mongols would've ride proper Mongol Horses. It's also important to note that those horses were (and are) very convenient for fast disembarkment from the saddle to shoot arrows and fight with the sword.

But nobody wants that, even Japanese gamers. Because you don't deviate from rule of cool in a power fantasy without a solid reason. Sucker Punch knows how to use rule of cool without breaking the suspension of disbelief, unlike freakin Shadows where it's straight up fantasy with Japanese skin.

Is that guy riding SLEIPNIR?!?!?! Or is there another horse hidden behind his giving the illusion of an 8 legged steed?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ghost of Tsushima had a lesbian samurai tho

Lady Otsuya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, the tea houses and concubine would engage in lesbian sex all the time. Especially when a male brought his partner with them. This isn't a modern era trope.

 

[ozz ex machina]

Political agenda mate. Japanese people don't want that shit in their country. Can you understand some so basic, they don't want shitty foreigners change the story of their country and publicity as real thing?

I'm English. Do you know how much inaccurate shit there is for us? I couldn't give a flying fuck. It's not real.

 

[Radical_3d]

but AC used to be your franchise to boast about history accuracy

 

[vkbest]

I'm English. Do you know how much inaccurate shit there is for us? I couldn't give a flying fuck. It's not real.

That is your problem. Why Japanese people should accept it simply because you didn't defense your culture?

 

[Loomy]

They visited Japan, consulted historians and motion captured Japanese sword-fighting experts. They even gave up on featuring real-life historical figures in the game, heeding the advice of their consultants.

It's really that simple. Don't do it so you can check a box saying you did. Actually do it properly.

I'm afraid they will fuck it all in the next game.

Based on what? I don't think SP has had a miss since the Sly Cooper days.

 

[ozz ex machina]

That is your problem. Why Japanese people should accept it simply because you didn't defense your culture?

It's fictional? It's funny because the same people getting up in arms about defending japanese culture with this game, would be arguing the exact opposite if it was some african culture and people were kicking off about them not respecting the traditions.

 

[Games of Today]

It's just like, why even bother adding a black character in a setting where said black character was most likely treated like a sub-human in real life. Why can't anyone ever make any game about actual historical black characters. I don't understand. We STILL don't have a game about the Buffalo soldiers invading Sicily like the film Miracle at St. Anna. That would be unbelievable. But NO! God forbid anyone does that!

I mean for Christ's sake, the Japanese literally thought white Americans were savages until at least 1945. God only knows how they treated black people.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's fictional? It's funny because the same people getting up in arms about defending japanese culture with this game, would be arguing the exact opposite if it was some african culture and people were kicking off about them not respecting the traditions.

Bullshit. Here's the difference since context and nuance seems to be slipping.

Sucker Punch took special care to work with Japanese Historians in Japan. That is why it was accepted by them as a whole and they constructed a memorial on Tsushima island to honor Sucker Punch for their work.

AssCreed devs did not. They are living out their power fantasy literally ripping an actual historical figure to boot, which rubbed the people of Japan the wrong way, which they have a right to feel that way. Especially when the stench of said western ideology is dripping in it.

If the same thing happened where devs worked with historians in an African country, and said country held it in high regard, there would be no issues.

If devs did the AssCreed thing, ripped a historical figure and bastardized them, let's say a white guy slaughtering hundreds of Ghanaians, then the development team deserves all the backlash they get.

Especially when AssCreed used to tow the "historical" mantra.

 

[mckmas8808]

If I remember correctly, there also was a sidestory about a man visiting the grave of what is implied to be his former lover. The others were accusing him of spying for the Mongolian.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

If I remember correctly, there also was a sidestory about a man visiting the grave of what is implied to be his former lover. The others were accusing him of spying for the Mongolian.

I don’t know man, what can I say except never read about the origins of kabuki, or you know why some families in historical Japan formally dressed their kids as children until their late 20s or what happened inside Buddhist temples.

Hint: horny stuff happened.